Do you believe in God?

Ipso · 10-10-2019 8:53pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Three issues there.

The first is that I am not convinced at all it has become more of an issue. I am not sure what stats you are drawing from here. Rather we seem to have merely become more aware of it, are more open about it, diagnose it better and are more inclined to talk about it.

Secondly even if it was more of an issue, the link to faith is a correlation/causation assumption that I do not think is warranted. There are any number of reasons and influences for why mental health might be more of an issue, if we were to assume it is actually more of an issue. I see no reason to link it to a drop in faith at all.

Thirdly I am not even sure how safe the claim is that the majority have lost faith. I genuinely do not know the current statistics or which ones you are using here. The last ones I saw were.... odd.... and hard to parse. But they did not suggest the majority had lost faith. And even those who have moved away from a particular church or other, still seem to profess a faith.

Whatever the solution to mental health issues are though, I am not sure lying to oneself is the right medicine to advocate to deal with it.

I'd say a lot of people lost trust in man made institutions than lost faith completely.

railer201 · 10-10-2019 9:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There are mental health advantages in believing in God, because making room in one’s mind for the existence of an invisible unconditionally loving being in whom we can trust gives us a certain feeling of security and hope in that no matter what goes wrong in life there is every possibility of future contentment. Mental health has become more of an issue now that the majority have no faith.

I always remember one the the last things my mother said, aged 89, not long before she died, “please do not take my faith away, I could lose it if persuaded. Please try and have some faith, try not to be dissuaded by tbe currency of disbelief, yourself because even if you are in the depths of despair you can always pray”.

In the modern reductionist world we live in anything that can't be backed up by hard science is scoffed at, therefore God doesn't exist because it can't be proved scientifically he does.

Some time back on boards I recounted a story where a deceased pilot had appeared to another alive pilot outside Glasgow Airport where they had engaged in a short conversation before passing on their 'respective ways'. This story also formed part of a documentary series on Channel 4.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12118487.former-pilot-tells-of-ghostly-meeting-with-dead-colleague/

Clearly such a story is not evidence of a god of any description, but it does contradict the reductionist point of view and points up that we are spirits as well as bodies with brains. Consequently I've no bother believing in the probability God exists, whatever he/she/it actually is. Your mother had it right in my opinion.

Zubeneschamali · 10-10-2019 10:10pm

railer201 wrote: »

Some time back on boards I recounted a story where a deceased pilot had appeared to another alive pilot outside Glasgow Airport where they had engaged in a short conversation before passing on their 'respective ways'.

Oh, well in that case, clearly my whole materialist worldview has been refuted, since you heard a ghost story.

railer201 · 10-10-2019 10:46pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Oh, well in that case, clearly my whole materialist worldview has been refuted, since you heard a ghost story.

My apologies, I'm sure you'll get over it - mysterious ways etc..

jobeenfitz · 10-10-2019 10:50pm

He calls round and drinks a few cans with me every couple of weeks. Course I believe. He's real but he's a bit of a dick like the rest of us.

igCorcaigh · 11-10-2019 12:33am

Still open to the idea of some form of cosmic consciousness (God) but I think it unlikely.

We still don't know the underlying base of physics, also don't know how consciousness exists.

Neither reasons form a basis for the existence of God though.

Ignorence is never an argument for anything, in my opinion.

igCorcaigh · 11-10-2019 12:35am

I'm more with Einstein than Gödel with this one.

igCorcaigh · 11-10-2019 12:37am

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I'm more with Einstein than Gödel with this one.

I mean, not the paternal, carer kind of god, more of an intrinsic intelligence. But not directed.

I don't think there is any purpose.

igCorcaigh · 11-10-2019 12:39am

Ipso wrote: »

I'd say a lot of people lost trust in man made institutions than lost faith completely.

I think that is very true.

igCorcaigh · 11-10-2019 12:44am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Oh, well in that case, clearly my whole materialist worldview has been refuted, since you heard a ghost story.

Newton is hard to shake off.

But we know that the model is not quite right.

donkeykong5 · 11-10-2019 1:12am

Why do people who dont believe in God keep on about it 24/7. Just let it go and move on. I'm glad I believe in God. I enjoy mass every Saturday night in whitefriar street which is usually packed. So theres no need to keep on about it. There are still plenty of happy Catholics in Ireland. Move on . You really wont be missed. Life is for living!. Enjoy

nozzferrahhtoo · 11-10-2019 7:13am

railer201 wrote: »

In the modern reductionist world we live in anything that can't be backed up by hard science is scoffed at, therefore God doesn't exist because it can't be proved scientifically he does.

I wonder if you are strawmaning a little there though. Take me for example. Nowhere in this thread have I demanded specifically scientific evidence for a god. Yet quite often I get accused of having done just that.

What I DO say is that I have never seen any argument, evidence, data OR reasoning to suggest the explanation for our existence lies in the machinations of a non-human, intelligent, intentional agent.

I do not mention science there at all, do I? Yet quite often I hear this "You only want science!" response.

railer201 wrote: »

it does contradict the reductionist point of view and points up that we are spirits as well as bodies with brains.

Except such a story does not such thing.

I could recount a story of someone who was abducted by aliens. That does not mean there are aliens. I can recount a story of someone who is convinced they remember a past life. That does not mean reincarnation exists. I can recount a story of someone who talked to tiny little people. That does not mean there are fairies.

People see weird stuff, or see normal stuff and parse it weirdly, all the time. In isolation such anecdote is not evidence of anything except the fallibility of human perception. Even if we automatically assume the anecdote is true and truthful.

nozzferrahhtoo · 11-10-2019 7:13am

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Why do people who dont believe in God keep on about it 24/7.

Few of them do. Rather when a thread on the actual topic comes up, we happily partake in it. Much different really. Your post is a bit like walking specifically into a bar and saying "Why are people drinking all the time" or specifically into a thread about the US presidency and saying "Why are people going on about Trump all the time".

So the "let it go and move on" mantra would be better applied to yourself. As by entering a thread specifically on the topic to moan that people are discussing the topic..... it is really only you manufacturing an issue out of it.

That said however in my real life......

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Just let it go and move on.

...... I would happily never discuss god or religion ever again or have anything to do with it. Alas I am simply not let! In all the subjects I AM invested and active in.... science, education, sexuality, womens rights, human rights, childrens rights, reproductive rights, politics and much more..... the parties of god are only too keen to shove their faith in my face and in the discourse in our halls of education, power and science.

And as long as that keeps occurring, I will have to keep dealing with religion and the claims about gods.

It is not atheists either.... since you are imagining people going on 24/7 who actually don't........ going door to door to Interrupt your day with their "good news" or standing on street corners with megaphones throwing out threats against your well being to repent or burn. The most atheists have is an information table once a week with no megaphones.

So. Move on. You really wont be missed. Life is for living! Enjoy.

railer201 · 11-10-2019 8:11am

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Why do people who dont believe in God keep on about it 24/7. Just let it go and move on. I'm glad I believe in God. I enjoy mass every Saturday night in whitefriar street which is usually packed. So theres no need to keep on about it. There are still plenty of happy Catholics in Ireland. Move on . You really wont be missed. Life is for living!. Enjoy

It shows a lack of confidence in their binary decision that there is no God, so they feel the need to constantly reassure themselves by arguing with those who do believe.

nthclare · 11-10-2019 9:21am

The Abrahamic Atheist.

Most Atheists are more obsessed with the Abrahamic God than any other God.

I suppose I can see why they can't get their heads around the fact someone would worship what can be only described as a misogynistic, sociopathic, bipolar sand demon from a foreign land.

The Abrahamic God, a God of hate, destruction and war...

The day I had enough of that sand demon Jehova was the day I started to get enlightenment...

railer201 · 11-10-2019 9:27am

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Except such a story does not such thing.

I could recount a story of someone who was abducted by aliens. That does not mean there are aliens. I can recount a story of someone who is convinced they remember a past life. That does not mean reincarnation exists. I can recount a story of someone who talked to tiny little people. That does not mean there are fairies.

People see weird stuff, or see normal stuff and parse it weirdly, all the time. In isolation such anecdote is not evidence of anything except the fallibility of human perception. Even if we automatically assume the anecdote is true and truthful.

You have to be careful of confirmation bias though, which applies equally to atheists and believers. The one story is merely an example, but if you are the investigative type of person, genuinely open to the possibility of believing, at a minimum, there is 'something out there' then I would suggest reading the following book. 'Apparitions and Haunted Houses' by Sir Ernest Bennett - A survey of evidence.

Mad_maxx · 11-10-2019 9:53am

God ( of the Bible, torah, Koran) is the biggest mass murderer in history

nthclare · 11-10-2019 9:58am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

God ( of the Bible, torah, Koran) is the biggest mass murderer in history

Without a doubt and supposedly he then decides not only is there suffering on earth, but he'll wake you up again and have you tortured for all eternity..

Now think about that, if he's not happy with your lifestyle you're going to be screaming in pain for ever and ever.....

But sure he's a great guy

Umiq88 · 11-10-2019 10:10am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

God ( of the Bible, torah, Koran) is the biggest mass murderer in history

And mass murderer's don't exist either therefore..... oh wait!!

There's a lot people base their belief (or lack of) in God based on Religion which is man made, RC church, their perception of what the bible says etc.

If God, heaven, hell etc. exist or not surely doesn't depend on how you feel about them wether you like it or not.

I've never met or seen Donal Trump for example. Politics aside I don't particularly like the man. I do believe he exists thought. I could say the same about South Korea.

Iscreamkone · 11-10-2019 10:52am

Do I believe in god(s)? No

Do I believe that anyone who believes in god(s) is a little silly? Yes

Dr. Bre · 11-10-2019 11:13am

Also they made sure god was a dude - suits the narrative

donkeykong5 · 11-10-2019 11:32am

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Why do people who dont believe in God keep on about it 24/7.

Few of them do. Rather when a thread on the actual topic comes up, we happily partake in it. Much different really. Your post is a bit like walking specifically into a bar and saying "Why are people drinking all the time" or specifically into a thread about the US presidency and saying "Why are people going on about Trump all the time".

So the "let it go and move on" mantra would be better applied to yourself. As by entering a thread specifically on the topic to moan that people are discussing the topic..... it is really only you manufacturing an issue out of it.

That said however in my real life......

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Just let it go and move on.

...... I would happily never discuss god or religion ever again or have anything to do with it. Alas I am simply not let! In all the subjects I AM invested and active in.... science, education, sexuality, womens rights, human rights, childrens rights, reproductive rights, politics and much more..... the parties of god are only too keen to shove their faith in my face and in the discourse in our halls of education, power and science.

And as long as that keeps occurring, I will have to keep dealing with religion and the claims about gods.

It is not atheists either.... since you are imagining people going on 24/7 who actually don't........ going door to door to Interrupt your day with their "good news" or standing on street corners with megaphones throwing out threats against your well being to repent or burn. The most atheists have is an information table once a week with no megaphones.

So. Move on. You really wont be missed. Life is for living! Enjoy.

The title of the thread is " do you believe in God ". My answer and millions of others is YES. !

daveorourke77 · 11-10-2019 11:44am

I, like a lot of others, am a lapsed catholic.

I've chosen to keep an open mind about the existence of a god or a higher power.

Agnostisicm is the safest bet in my view. How do humans confirm the existence or non existence of god? I don't believe we can at this stage. So I find it best to keep an open mind.

daveorourke77 · 11-10-2019 11:48am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

God ( of the Bible, torah, Koran) is the biggest mass murderer in history

Not true.

Some of the followers of the gods you mention have committed mass murder in the name of their gods.

Therefore, it's the followers (i.e humans) that are the greatest mass murderers in history.

nthclare · 11-10-2019 12:07pm

daveorourke77 wrote: »

Not true.

Some of the followers of the gods you mention have committed mass murder in the name of their gods.

Therefore, it's the followers (i.e humans) that are the greatest mass murderers in history.

With the help of their holy book

Marhay70 · 11-10-2019 12:49pm

daveorourke77 wrote: »

Not true.

Some of the followers of the gods you mention have committed mass murder in the name of their gods.

Therefore, it's the followers (i.e humans) that are the greatest mass murderers in history.

What about the plagues of Egypt, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Great Flood?

kerryjack · 11-10-2019 1:39pm

What would a world with out God and relegion look like probably won't happen in my life time but the way things are going it will probably take another 50 or 100 years to get rid of this nothion of a God or religion.

nozzferrahhtoo · 11-10-2019 1:58pm

donkeykong5 wrote: »

The title of the thread is " do you believe in God ". My answer and millions of others is YES. !

Which is absolutely fine. That was not what you wrote in the previous post which I replied to though, now was it?

railer201 wrote: »

You have to be careful of confirmation bias though, which applies equally to atheists and believers.

Not really equal. Taking an anecdote and saying it shows X is much more subject to confirmation bias as taking the anecdote and saying it could show anything, but there is no evidence it specifically shows X.

railer201 wrote: »

'Apparitions and Haunted Houses' by Sir Ernest Bennett - A survey of evidence.

You would do well not to assume I have not read it and many books similar. I have long read books on NDE, haunting, reincarnation, psychics, spirits, the supernatural, the paranormal and more.

I have yet to find any evidence in such books that any of it is anything more than human experience. And quite often the anecdotes surveyed in such books are just that, anecdotes, without any supporting evidence or fact. What did you find the most compelling evidence in that book yourself?

Worse when any kind of controls are put into place to deal with such evidence, the evidence disappears. For example with OBE a scientist called Sam Parnia put some pretty good controls into place to try and find evidence people actually were leaving their body. As yet this scientist.... one heavily biased towards believing there is an after life.... has failed to find any that I have heard of.

Worse again when people give me such book titles and I ask them for the most compelling evidence for the book they named, I get some awful replies usually. There was a user, long since left the forum, who I asked this about his evidence for Reincarnation. He said there was LOADS so I asked him for the best he had.

What did he give me? A small girl in a foreign country who was able to talk a long dead language "fluently" despite there being no possible way she could have learned it. What did I find after 5 minutes of researching it? Turns out she did not speak it fluently but about as well as a 2 year old might. And also turns out her own father studied both the long dead people AND their language. So much for "fluently" and "could not have learned it" huh?

nthclare · 11-10-2019 2:00pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Which is absolutely fine. That was not what you wrote in the previous post which I replied to though, now was it?

Not really equal. Taking an anecdote and saying it shows X is much more subject to confirmation bias as taking the anecdote and saying it could show anything, but there is no evidence it specifically shows X.

You would do well not to assume I have not read it and many books similar. I have long read books on NDE, haunting, reincarnation, psychics, spirits, the supernatural, the paranormal and more.

I have yet to find any evidence in such books that any of it is anything more than human experience. And quite often the anecdotes surveyed in such books are just that, anecdotes, without any supporting evidence or fact.

Worse when any kind of controls are put into place to deal with such evidence, the evidence disappears. For example with OBE a scientist called Sam Parnia put some pretty good controls into place to try and find evidence people actually were leaving their body. As yet this scientist.... one heavily biased towards believing there is an after life.... has failed to find any that I have heard of.

That's it, close shop.
The debate is over the vampire is right

Bobblehats · 11-10-2019 2:03pm

I am a mirror image of god. “Woof!”

nozzferrahhtoo · 11-10-2019 2:03pm

nthclare wrote: »

Most Atheists are more obsessed with the Abrahamic God than any other God.

Only in societies where the theists are more obsessed with the Abrahamic God than any other.

If you go to, say, India would you not find the atheists THERE are most concerned with the gods the theists THERE are concerned with???

nthclare wrote: »

That's it, close shop.
The debate is over the vampire is right

Hah a supernatural being denying evidence of the supernatural does have a comedic ring to it. Wasn't there an atheist vampire in Discworld novels?

daveorourke77 · 11-10-2019 2:15pm

Marhay70 wrote: »

What about the plagues of Egypt, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Great Flood?

Not acts of mass murder.

Natural disasters.

daveorourke77 · 11-10-2019 2:16pm

nthclare wrote: »

With the help of their holy book

The book didnt kill anyone. People did.

God may have been used as the excuse or justification but it comes down to people again.

Mad_maxx · 11-10-2019 2:38pm

nthclare wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

God ( of the Bible, torah, Koran) is the biggest mass murderer in history

Without a doubt and supposedly he then decides not only is there suffering on earth, but he'll wake you up again and have you tortured for all eternity..

Now think about that, if he's not happy with your lifestyle you're going to be screaming in pain for ever and ever.....

But sure he's a great guy

Worst part is the jazz about how free will means a child can die of hunger or have an insect eat it's eye out

AndrewJRenko · 11-10-2019 3:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I pray my own prayers for people and myself out of habit, and in case they are being heard.

Do you think that your god does favours for people - cures the diseases that he created or helps people to do better in exams than their peers who worked harder - based on the quality and quantity of prayers received?

So if you're unlucky enough to have mostly non-practicing friends and family, you're less likely to be cured?

jimgoose · 11-10-2019 3:18pm

https://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

the beer revolu · 11-10-2019 4:12pm

I find it odd that a lot of Irish religious people seem to assume that if you are Irish, you share their religion.
In conversation, they will constantly refer to their god, offering to pray for people and such or offering religious based "inspirational quotes".
While this doesn't bother me, per se, I can't help thinking that if I casually dropped my belief that there is no god into conversation with strangers, then many religious people would take offence and probably comment on my actions.
Why are my beliefs seen as disrespectful by many religious people?

Came across an interesting example of this only yesterday.
A neighbour did a good deed for another neighbour. As a thank you, the second neighbour bought a bunch of flowers and a mass card with a long inscription going on about god and prayer. The neighbour who did the good deed is an atheist.
Now, no one got upset over this and it was a well meant and rather sweet act but imagine if the roles were reversed and the religious person was sent an atheist themed thank you card!

its_steve116 · 11-10-2019 6:29pm

No. But be nice anyway.

the beer revolu · 11-10-2019 6:33pm

its_steve116 wrote: »

No. But be nice anyway.

Oh, I wouldn't turn on someone for saying these kind of things, they are usually well meant.

Marhay70 · 11-10-2019 7:24pm

daveorourke77 wrote: »

Not acts of mass murder.

Natural disasters.[/QUOTE

That may be the modern theory but according to the book on which the Abrahamic faiths are based they were direct acts of God.
Do you cherrypick other events mentioned in the Bible to believe?

igCorcaigh · 12-10-2019 12:04am

the beer revolu wrote: »

I find it odd that a lot of Irish religious people seem to assume that if you are Irish, you share their religion.
In conversation, they will constantly refer to their god, offering to pray for people and such or offering religious based "inspirational quotes".
While this doesn't bother me, per se, I can't help thinking that if I casually dropped my belief that there is no god into conversation with strangers, then many religious people would take offence and probably comment on my actions.
Why are my beliefs seen as disrespectful by many religious people?

Came across an interesting example of this only yesterday.
A neighbour did a good deed for another neighbour. As a thank you, the second neighbour bought a bunch of flowers and a mass card with a long inscription going on about god and prayer. The neighbour who did the good deed is an atheist.
Now, no one got upset over this and it was a well meant and rather sweet act but imagine if the roles were reversed and the religious person was sent an atheist themed thank you card!

Well, it isn't reversible that way, but I take your point.

It seems to me though that people in my circle are by default non believers or atheists, or something like that, when they do vocalise it.

Of course, you get an element of 'I believe in something' too.

It's a bit of a change when back in my college days of 1990 something, to say that you're not a Christian was something to be shocked about.

And these were science students.

Mysterypunter · 12-10-2019 12:26am

Not really, he or she is a fictional character

uck51js9zml2yt · 12-10-2019 1:24am

Seem to have a lot of people here with mental health issues.
All these people condemning a God whom they don't believe exists for things he did or didn't do. Since they believe He doesn't exist, how could He be guilty of "mass murder" , inflicting pain etc.?
It's a case of mass delusion.

nozzferrahhtoo · 12-10-2019 7:39am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Seem to have a lot of people here with mental health issues.
All these people condemning a God whom they don't believe exists for things he did or didn't do. Since they believe He doesn't exist, how could He be guilty of "mass murder" , inflicting pain etc.?
It's a case of mass delusion.

Hardly. In school I wrote long essays on whether we could morally forgive or judge Silas Marner. We debated each others essays too. And the teacher had us write more essays taking the perspective of others, or critiquing the perspective of others.

So I wrote page after page after page judging this persons actions, moral character, and situation.

At not one point during the process was I required to believe Silas Marner was a real person. Nor was my not thinking of him as a real person an issue in being able to write those essays.

There is nothing wrong with critiquing the moral character and actions of imaginary characters. People watching soap operas do it all the time for example.

You throw around labels like "Mental health issues" way too readily. Throwing it like confetti at things people do ALL the time.

TheRodgers · 12-10-2019 7:41am

no but i will be pleasantly surprised if there does turn out to be one when i kick the bucket.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-10-2019 8:59am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Seem to have a lot of people here with mental health issues.
All these people condemning a God whom they don't believe exists for things he did or didn't do. Since they believe He doesn't exist, how could He be guilty of "mass murder" , inflicting pain etc.?
It's a case of mass delusion.

And on the flip side

Seem to have a lot of people here with mental health issues.
All these people praying to a God whom they believe exists for things he did or didn't do. Since they believe He does exist, how could He drown the wirlds population, allow wars, famine, cancer in innocent children etc.?
It's a case of mass delusion.

uck51js9zml2yt · 12-10-2019 9:05am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And on the flip side

But He is real

As for wars and famines.. are they not cause by men. We all know there's enough food in the world go feed the world.

As for the flood. We've not yet seen a world that was so evil that it was beyond redemption....Don't worry, it's coming again. Society is breaking down at a pace we've never experienced before. The time will come when He says enough for a second time and then He will come and burn it up and start again.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-10-2019 9:08am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

But He is real

In your mind

As for wars and famines.. are they not cause by men. We all know there's enough food in the world go feed the world.

How does man cause a famine? It's mans fault it doesn't rain/crops fail?

As for the flood. We've not yet seen a world that was so evil that it was beyond redemption....Don't worry, it's coming again. Society is breaking down at a pace we've never experienced before. The time will come when He says enough for a second time and then He will come and burn it up and start again.

Because it says so in a book, you (wrongly) say other people have mental health issues yet see nothing wrong with (selectively) believing the words in a book.

Marhay70 · 12-10-2019 10:42am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Seem to have a lot of people here with mental health issues.
All these people condemning a God whom they don't believe exists for things he did or didn't do. Since they believe He doesn't exist, how could He be guilty of "mass murder" , inflicting pain etc.?
It's a case of mass delusion.

But it's you and others like you who believe this stuff. We are just pointing out the reasons why the idea of what you portray as a loving and protective deity are contradicted by the very book you choose to evidence that.
When you are captured as a 4/5year old child and force fed this stuff by who you see as the most powerful and influential people in your life, with the threat of millenia of torment to come if you don't accept it, then it's easy to see why some of this stuff sticks. Were it not for this legal and state sponsored mental terrorism then I reckon that the poll in real life would be a lot more conclusive on the "no" side than the one on here.

AndrewJRenko · 12-10-2019 10:44am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

But He is real

As for wars and famines.. are they not cause by men.

Is childhood cancer caused by men too?

Do you believe in God?

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