Is it possible to avoid illegal drug use?

28-01-2020 8:17pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I can only judge by the filth I see on O Connell Street and the wasters who couldnt drag themselves out of the sack for college in the morning or some waster who threw his job away to play World of Warcraft. Then there are the associates who died prematurely for suspicious reasons.

You could consider the thousands of drug users who never become addicts.... For the most part, outside of drug producing nations or those with a drug producing nation nearby, the numbers of addicts is far less than those who can use drugs recreational without becoming addicted.

I've known very few drug addicts and they became addicts because of deeper psychological issues, like severe depression or abandonment issues. Filling a void with the drugs. Most of my "western" friends use one drug or another, and they've all got productive jobs and stable lifestyles.

Don't judge drug users by students. That's a whole different ballgame entirely.

skooterblue2 · 28-01-2020 8:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've known very few drug addicts and they became addicts because of deeper psychological issues, like severe depression or abandonment issues. Filling a void with the drugs. Most of my "western" friends use one drug or another, and they've all got productive jobs and stable lifestyles.

Don't judge drug users by students. That's a whole different ballgame entirely.

Why did they have to turn to drugs? Why not go gardening, running, carpentry or 101 different other things?

Why can't I judge students in the equation? They were over 18 and adults? At 18 you are old enough to drink vote and join the army. If you can do all that you are old enough to be responsible for your actions.

TheAnalyst_ · 28-01-2020 9:16pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Why did they have to turn to drugs? Why not go gardening, running, carpentry or 101 different other things?

Why can't I judge students in the equation? They were over 18 and adults? At 18 you are old enough to drink vote and join the army. If you can do all that you are old enough to be responsible for your actions.

Better parties, interesting people, music, high jinks. I kind of pity those that miss out on it. Funnily enough you see a lot of those types get big into running, gardening and **** like that when they hit mid 30s.

28-01-2020 9:21pm

Anything to be said for another song? I should head over to the retro forum with this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2nq8DzYToE

Just say no. :P

skooterblue2 · 28-01-2020 9:42pm

China Virus wrote: »

Why do weed addicts get so incredibly touchy when you criticize their sacred herb?

It cannot be criticised because it is not addictive, nobody get hurt, they dont go soft in the head after a few years down the line, nobody ruins their lives and fails college and its not a gateway drug. These are myths they all just love.

skooterblue2 · 28-01-2020 9:44pm

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I kind of pity those that miss out on it. Funnily enough you see a lot of those types get big into running, gardening and **** like that when they hit mid 30s.

Dont worry about me me friend, I am getting along fine.
Remember a friend in weed is a friend indeed. Once the weed is gone they are off like a dress on Debs night.

Doctor Jimbob · 28-01-2020 9:53pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

It cannot be criticised because it is not addictive, nobody get hurt, they dont go soft in the head after a few years down the line, nobody ruins their lives and fails college and its not a gateway drug. These are myths they all just love.

I have multiple friends who smoke weed.

A few have gone on to occasionally take pills and hallucinogens.

Not a single one of them does heroin.

The gateway drug thing is a load of nonsense.

skooterblue2 · 28-01-2020 10:20pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

A few have gone on to occasionally take pills and hallucinogens.

The gateway drug thing is a load of nonsense.

One statement disproves the other. Loads of Government agencies beg to differ.

"Some research suggests that marijuana use is likely to precede use of other licit and illicit substances and the development of addiction to other substances."
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug

"It should come as no surprise that the vast majority of heroin users have used marijuana (and many other drugs) not only long before they used heroin but while they are using heroin."
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

Doctor Jimbob · 28-01-2020 10:43pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

One statement disproves the other. Loads of Government agencies beg to differ.

"Some research suggests that marijuana use is likely to precede use of other licit and illicit substances and the development of addiction to other substances."
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug

"It should come as no surprise that the vast majority of heroin users have used marijuana (and many other drugs) not only long before they used heroin but while they are using heroin."
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

"A few" as in the majority did not go on to do harder things.

I'm sure the vast majority of heroin users drank coffee or ate chocolate before and during their heroin use as well. The notion that there's a causative link between using one and using the other is absurd.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-01-2020 10:50pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Never heard of Alex Grey. Looks like a load of clap trap, to justify using drugs.

You didn't look, but it doesn;t matter: he's succesful. As are the others who all use drugs.

Jobs was a parasite getting rich off other people technology and Wozniacks hard grift. treated his "daughter" Lisa with disdain and not accepting responsibility for her. Isnt it amazing that Jobs spouts all this wonderful thinking yet every time you return to work for Apple they test you for drugs?
Never heard of Albert Hoffman.

Again, your personal opinion doesn't matter - he;s succesful.

I can only judge by the filth I see on O Connell Street and the wasters who couldnt drag themselves out of the sack for college in the morning or some waster who threw his job away to play World of Warcraft. Then there are the associates who died prematurely for suspicious reasons.

No, you can do other things. But you choose not to.

For a start you could try NOT walking down O'Connell Street - that's just confirmation bais - but you choose not to. So, you not only have no idea what youre talking about, you don't actually want to know - and that's just ignorant.

And to actually admit to not wanting to know AND spout bull**** at the same time...? That's just stupid!

skooterblue2 · 28-01-2020 11:07pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You didn't look, but it doesn;t matter: he's succesful. As are the others who all use drugs.

Again, your personal opinion doesn't matter - he;s succesful.

No, you can do other things. But you choose not to.

For a start you could try NOT walking down O'Connell Street - that's just confirmation bais - but you choose not to. So, you not only have no idea what youre talking about, you don't actually want to know - and that's just ignorant.

And to actually admit to not wanting to know AND spout bull**** at the same time...? That's just stupid!

I did actually look, he is some artist with a web shop.
Actually no those are all facts about Steve Jobs. The mouse was developed by Rank Xerox, the GUI was someone elses ideas, Wozniack was just a genius who did all his bidding. He did disown his daughter, Lisa. All Facts.

I will be forever reminded of how successful heroin users are every time I hear "Aww Bud .. can I get a few Euro for the ...".

I am sure I am going to get some wonderful resource material on all the good junkies have done for Dublin. They disturb the peace, they leave needles everywhere, rob their own mothers (sometimes daily).

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-01-2020 11:18pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I did actually look, he is some artist with a web shop.
Actually no those are all facts about Steve Jobs. The mouse was developed by Rank Xerox, the GUI was someone elses ideas, Wozniack was just a genius who did all his bidding. He did disown his daughter, Lisa. All Facts.

Again, doesn;t matter. Proved my point. They aren't sitting playing Warcraft.

I will be forever reminded of how successful heroin users are every time I hear "Aww Bud .. can I get a few Euro for the ...".

I am sure I am going to get some wonderful resource material on all the good junkies have done for Dublin. They disturb the peace, they leave needles everywhere, rob their own mothers (sometimes daily).

Because that's what you want.

skooterblue2 · 28-01-2020 11:25pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Again, doesn;t matter. Proved my point. They aren't sitting playing Warcraft.

Because that's what you want.

For every Steve Jobs there is 1,000,000 zombies. Junkie Life expectancy in Dublin 2020? 28-32 upper limits. If drugs were so wonderful we would all be doing it. Companies would advertising for the accelerated management course for habitual drug users, but they dont. I was there the time they had that purge in Apple about 10 years ago in Cork. I heard about 10 desks were cleared. Big difference between Tim Cook and Steve Jobs.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-01-2020 11:58pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

For every Steve Jobs there is 1,000,000 zombies. Junkie Life expectancy in Dublin 2020? 28-32 upper limits. If drugs were so wonderful we would all be doing it. Companies would advertising for the accelerated management course for habitual drug users, but they dont. I was there the time they had that purge in Apple about 10 years ago in Cork. I heard about 10 desks were cleared. Big difference between Tim Cook and Steve Jobs.

Again, not relevant.

Unless you can prove he spent his lifen having "never graduated from the grannyflat and level 32 on World of Warcraft", your point is bull****.

Now I've highlighted the fallacies in your thinking, proven your ignorance and given you two or three chances to redeem yourself, all of which you declined because you chose not to read and resorted to random unproveable and unlikely "facts". From experience, I know that the only place these cvonversations go after that, is you throwing insults at me in a last-ditch effort to try and safe face, and you go there on your own.

Good night.

skooterblue2 · 29-01-2020 12:29am

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Again, not relevant.

Unless you can prove he spent his lifen having "never graduated from the grannyflat and level 32 on World of Warcraft", your point is bull****.

Now I've highlighted the fallacies in your thinking, proven your ignorance and given you two or three chances to redeem yourself, all of which you declined because you chose not to read and resorted to random unproveable and unlikely "facts". From experience, I know that the only place these cvonversations go after that, is you throwing insults at me in a last-ditch effort to try and safe face, and you go there on your own.

Good night.

I am sorry you feel insulted, I have no intention to insult you personally. IF you can point out where I insulted you directly I would apologise.
I having seen a few associates (5) bomb out of college and die (4) unexplainable deaths (heart attacks, single car crashes with no technical faults etc) and a couple of them developing (2) mental health problems later in life.

The facts about Steve Jobs and Apple are a matter of public record. I cannot be redeemed as I cannot be bought with coupons.

Quantum Erasure · 29-01-2020 12:39am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

It cannot be criticised because it is not addictive, nobody get hurt, they dont go soft in the head after a few years down the line, nobody ruins their lives and fails college.

It is psychologically addictive, people do fail college, go 'soft in the head' and ruin their lives with it

29-01-2020 1:01am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Why did they have to turn to drugs? Why not go gardening, running, carpentry or 101 different other things?

Because drugs are more fun without the learning curve?

I'm guessing you've never seen someone shoot up heroin.. and the way their whole demeanor/posture changes.

Why can't I judge students in the equation? They were over 18 and adults? At 18 you are old enough to drink vote and join the army. If you can do all that you are old enough to be responsible for your actions.

It's not solely about responsibility. It's about awareness. Students think short-term. They're thinking within the period of their courses, and not considering what comes after. Those outside of University/college, know what it's like to work, know what responsibilities they're likely to receive/get, and... the rest is pretty obvious.

29-01-2020 1:07am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

One statement disproves the other. Loads of Government agencies beg to differ.

"Some research suggests that marijuana use is likely to precede use of other licit and illicit substances and the development of addiction to other substances."
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug

"It should come as no surprise that the vast majority of heroin users have used marijuana (and many other drugs) not only long before they used heroin but while they are using heroin."
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/26/is-marijuana-a-gateway-drug/marijuana-has-proven-to-be-a-gateway-drug

For all your research... you skipped the US led "war on drugs" going back over a hundred years, with the association of cannabis to loose living and dangerous behavior, even going so far as to connect it with Black people. The US government has been promoting the 'supposed' negative aspects of cannabis for over a century even when they didn't have any research to prove it... You really think that research suddenly become unbiased even though the government never stopped pushing their agenda against cannabis?

I can't believe you would be that naive, so there must be another reason at play.

skooterblue2 · 29-01-2020 1:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Because drugs are more fun without the learning curve?

I'm guessing you've never seen someone shoot up heroin.. and the way their whole demeanor/posture changes.

It's not solely about responsibility. It's about awareness. Students think short-term. They're thinking within the period of their courses, and not considering what comes after. Those outside of University/college, know what it's like to work, know what responsibilities they're likely to receive/get, and... the rest is pretty obvious.

No never seen a junkie shoot up, just seen the aftermath with them wasted in the streets. I once saw a junkie take a dump on the street near Bus Aras and then chase after a girl call Therese proclaiming his love for her. "But I love you, Therese". Begging is so pitiful in a grown man/woman.

That is no excuse for damaging your organs and brain.

skooterblue2 · 29-01-2020 1:18am

Deleted User wrote: »

For all your research... you skipped the US led "war on drugs" going back over a hundred years, with the association of cannabis to loose living and dangerous behavior, even going so far as to connect it with Black people. The US government has been promoting the 'supposed' negative aspects of cannabis for over a century even when they didn't have any research to prove it... You really think that research suddenly become unbiased even though the government never stopped pushing their agenda against cannabis?

I can't believe you would be that naive, so there must be another reason at play.

Cannabis/ Hemp is a bit more complex than just drugs. I am fascinated by hemp as a gardener (I dont grow it btw) that is grows and has had so many uses particularly around war time, rate of growth, applications and how the pharmaceutical and petro -chemical industry dont like it.

Potential-Monke · 29-01-2020 1:28am

It is more complex because it can replace a lot of money making industries. Here's a great page on the many, many uses of hemp, and possibly give an insight into why it was made illegal to begin with (if you like some light conspiracy theories - a plant that you can grow at home to replace all the stuff you have to buy at inflated prices): http://www.informationdistillery.com/hemp.htm

Some points:

- Hempseeds and hemp oil are highly nutritious and delicious. Hempseeds are an excellent source of protein, minerals, and dietary fibre. Hemp is the only plant that contains all of the essential fatty acids and amino acids required by the human body. Can replace fish as the go-to for these requirements, cuts down on over-fishing. Vegetarian friendly, and also good for animals health.
- Due to its high content of beneficial oils and natural emollient properties, hemp is becoming a common ingredient in lotions and many other skin, hair, and cosmetic products. It is a good alternative to the toxic chemicals present in many petroleum based lotions and cosmetics.
- Hemp is an ideal material for making paper. It regenerates in the field in months (unlike trees which can take 30 years or more to become harvestable after planting.), is naturally acid free and does not become yellow and brittle or disintegrate over time like conventional paper.
- Hemp can be used to make a variety of fabrics, similar to but more durable than cotton. Hemp is also excellent for making rugs and other textiles. The word canvas comes from the Latin word for hemp (the first pair of Levi Strauss's jeans were made from hemp, as was the first American flag). Also makes very strong rope.
- Today, hemp oil can be used to create biofuels to replace gasoline for diesel engines. Unlike fossil fuels, biofuels are renewable and produce less of the greenhouse gas carbon monoxide.
- Plastic alternatives (cars, wrapping, etc)
- Hemp based materials can replace wood and other materials used to build homes and other structures including foundations, walls, shingles, paneling, pipes, and paint. The modern hemp building materials Hempcrete and Isochanvre are lightweight, waterproof, fireproof, self-insulating, and resistant to pests.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 29-01-2020 1:44am

Weed and magic mushrooms should be legalised tomorrow. I wouldn't be wild about very high THC content weed but if someone is over the age of 18 then let them at it. It could be grown in Ireland (with weed - in at least very energy intensive conditions) so you can cut out criminal gangs importing and production could actually be in the hands of those using it for personal supply (but obviously not 100%).

The rest of illegal drugs are a slippery slope. Even the ones I think can open up people to positive experiences when used in moderation, namely ecstasy and acid. Cocaine and heroin realistically will never be legalised as they are too powerful and too addictive - yes they are far more addictive than alcohol and nicotine.

BurnUp78 · 29-01-2020 1:57am

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Weed and magic mushrooms should be legalised tomorrow. I wouldn't be wild about very high THC content weed but if someone is over the age of 18 then let them at it. It could be grown in Ireland (with weed - in at least very energy intensive conditions) so you can cut out criminal gangs importing and production could actually be in the hands of those using it for personal supply (but obviously not 100%).

The rest of illegal drugs are a slippery slope. Even the ones I think can open up people to positive experiences when used in moderation, namely ecstasy and acid. Cocaine and heroin realistically will never be legalised as they are too powerful and too addictive - yes they are far more addictive than alcohol and nicotine.

Why are shrooms grand but acid is a slippery slope? Can't see the rationale with that one considering how damn powerful and intense(and frightening) a shroom trip can be

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 29-01-2020 3:13am

BurnUp78 wrote: »

Why are shrooms grand but acid is a slippery slope? Can't see the rationale with that one considering how damn powerful and intense(and frightening) a shroom trip can be

I've never found magic mushrooms frightening, though it all depends on your mental headspace on any particular trip. If you have something going on in your life it's bound to be magnified when under the effects of magic mushrooms. In this case, maybe its best not to use them.

Acid is stronger, lasts longer - can be up to 12 hours. Opens up people more to suggestion and decreases fear. I still think its an interesting drug and there are some in the field of psychiatry or psychology would believe it would be beneficial in helping patients but needs more research. The same goes for ecstasy.

Btw I did not say magic mushrooms are grand - your words - I just said they should be legalised.

29-01-2020 11:02am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is no excuse for damaging your organs and brain.

I find that to be a silly argument because people eat, drink, and do all manner of things which indirectly/directly damage their organs or brains.

I hate heroin for the damage it does to people other than the addict. Same with other high tier drugs.

At the same time though, I don't like how all drugs are lumped in with Heroin as if to say they're the same. They're not.

Cannabis/ Hemp is a bit more complex than just drugs

You posted links to research about cannabis.. And yet, what I said is true... in that the US government going back over a century has been campaigning against it publicly, playing with the fears of the public, and creating many of the objections to it, without unbiased research. Instead, they've funded papers to prove it's harmful nature and downplaying or ignoring results which went against their agenda. It's awfully naive to believe that modern research is any less biased than previous research considering the rise to lobbyists, and corporate influence in US politics.

jh79 · 29-01-2020 11:32am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find that to be a silly argument because people eat, drink, and do all manner of things which indirectly/directly damage their organs or brains.

I hate heroin for the damage it does to people other than the addict. Same with other high tier drugs.

At the same time though, I don't like how all drugs are lumped in with Heroin as if to say they're the same. They're not.

You posted links to research about cannabis.. And yet, what I said is true... in that the US government going back over a century has been campaigning against it publicly, playing with the fears of the public, and creating many of the objections to it, without unbiased research. Instead, they've funded papers to prove it's harmful nature and downplaying or ignoring results which went against their agenda. It's awfully naive to believe that modern research is any less biased than previous research considering the rise to lobbyists, and corporate influence in US politics.

The whole " the research is biased" claim is just an excuse for its poor performance in clinical trials.

If the conclusion of the research is appropriate for the methodology of the study then who funded it is not important.

29-01-2020 12:05pm

jh79 wrote: »

The whole " the research is biased" claim is just an excuse for its poor performance in clinical trials.

You really don't think that the funding of research, the influence of big pharma, and the disapproval of government agencies doesn't have an impact on such? Hmm.. ok.

If the conclusion of the research is appropriate for the methodology of the study then who funded it is not important.

Of course it does, because research bias exists considering the difficulties in obtaining funding for many groups...

It's easy enough to look online at the heaps of criticisms regarding clinical trials and the biases the affect their results/revelations..

jh79 · 29-01-2020 12:28pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You really don't think that the funding of research, the influence of big pharma, and the disapproval of government agencies doesn't have an impact on such? Hmm.. ok.

Of course it does, because research bias exists considering the difficulties in obtaining funding for many groups...

It's easy enough to look online at the heaps of criticisms regarding clinical trials and the biases the affect their results/revelations..

Sorry , not explaining myself clearly.

Claiming bias is ok if your basing it on flaws in the study design and then linking it to the funding.

Saying its biased research without offering evidence of bias is just using funding as an excuse for poor performance.

JustAThought · 30-01-2020 10:24pm

when I think back on the few who used drugs in school they were the ones that were mediocre, disruptive, often problematic and who achieved nothing where most others succeeded. Same in college - the new pot heads dropped out or typically failed, or couldn’t hold a job or the normal friendships everyone else had, usually went on to doss and be ‘alternative’ after - read unemployed - and drifted into a medioce social welfare dominated life. Same in work - those who were high achieving and partying with ‘proper’ drugs couldn’t sustain it and usually moved jobs downwards or left and didnt achieve the same success elsewhere . Having had a broad circle of friends the denominating factor in people slowly leaving them and their demise seems to be the unsustainable partying and drug use.After a certain point people just dont want to be associated either socially or in work with drug users - they have too much to lose and the return isnt worth it. I have a few ex friends who have serious mental health problems following prolonged cannabis use at college and porper drug use in professional life - MDMA, cocaine, cocaine - they never made it and never will - scitzophrenia, bi-polar, suicide, brains fried in serious drugs, devoured their way through a house ( or two) in drugs and losing jobs, spending like there is tomorrow - its been hard to watch and even harder to see their futires and families destroyed and partners and loved ones clinging on hoping where everyone else walks away and knows it is a wasted life and a dead loss. Sure drugs are great if you can manage them and if youre lucky and if you dont fry your brain and if you dont get caught drink driving when also high and if you can hold down a job and hold up an errection - but many cant, and don’t amd get trapped in an addiction that slowly destroys their hopes and drems and errodes their minds and lives and friendships and partners desire to be with them anymore. Its really not worth it. After all, there is dopamene highs from sport and success and alcohol.

pure.conya · 31-01-2020 9:44am

Kameron Mango Warship wrote: »

Do you honestly believe it's accepted in Irish culture for teenagers, or young adults, to talk about their illegal drug use around their parents? Most Irish parents of your parent's age would generally share their views.

its so much more out in the open now a days, we don't feel ashamed for having a craic at the weekend after a long hard week or letting the hair down at a festival or whatever

Is it possible to avoid illegal drug use?

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