Briars and Ivy taking over Ireland

blackbox · 30-07-2020 2:23pm

Base price wrote: »

Really, I didn't know that. I thought they were two different names for the same plant (hateful yokes that grow all over the fences and produce suckers in the filed) that produces my favourite fruit for jam making. What's the difference between them?

Brambles are the very common long trailing ones that grow blackberries on them.

Briars grow more upright and usually have bigger flowers on them. They are a type of wild rose. They have oval orange/red berries in late summer called hips.

minerleague · 30-07-2020 2:39pm

Jb1989 wrote: »

How is it hard to get at the shoots now?

The hedge is quite bushy in all directions so only the outside of each plant is readily accessible

monseiur · 30-07-2020 4:15pm

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Sorry to correct you but the time for that was in the spring. They're dying away from September anyway.
Knock the young fronds for a few years and they're well shook and the grass has plenty space to re establish.

July/August is the correct time to spray fern with Asulox - just after the frond opens. Asulox is absorbed by the leaf, makes it's way to the root as the plant dies back in autumn and it won't reappear next year. So it's very important not to break the stem after spraying as the route from leaf to root will be broken.
M.

Hard Knocks · 30-07-2020 4:38pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Planting Whitethorn hedge
Cut back to 10cms after planting, cut back to 30cms after one years growth, cut back to 60cms after 2nd years growth.

bottom right of page 2 on attached

Do you have to prune at any particular angle?

patsy_mccabe · 30-07-2020 10:23pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Do you have to prune at any particular angle?

Don't know. I cut back to 1 foot as above, the first year and it does thicken out the hedge.
I'd say with 2 rows of planting, you'd have a serious hedge. Hope to plant more next winter.

Hard Knocks · 30-07-2020 11:41pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Don't know. I cut back to 1 foot as above, the first year and it does thicken out the hedge.
I'd say with 2 rows of planting, you'd have a serious hedge. Hope to plant more next winter.

Set a white thorn, holly & beech hedge in the spring
I didn’t cut at planting
Might cut all to 30cm at winter time

emaherx · 31-07-2020 7:09am

blackbox wrote: »

Brambles are the very common long trailing ones that grow blackberries on them.

Briars grow more upright and usually have bigger flowers on them. They are a type of wild rose. They have oval orange/red berries in late summer called hips.

According to the dictionary neither Briar nor Bramble mean a particular plant they both refer to any number of thorny shrubs. I've never herd anyone local here refer to any thorny bushes as brambles, I've always considered bramble to be posh for briar.

Lime Tree Farm · 31-07-2020 11:58am

emaherx wrote: »

According to the dictionary neither Briar nor Bramble mean a particular plant they both refer to any number of thorny shrubs. I've never herd anyone local here refer to any thorny bushes as brambles, I've always considered bramble to be posh for briar.

My Chambers Dictionary does make the distinction, the brier/briar is a rose, and the bramble is a blackberry bush.

Having said that, we have always called blackberry bushes - briars.

also if you Google briars, selecting "images" you will get "dog roses" and Google brambles on "images", you will get blackberry bushes.

Doctors room ghost · 31-07-2020 12:01pm

If you sprayed stone walls covered in ivy would they fall when the spray kills the plant and it starts to rot.when it rots would the stones loosen and fall

emaherx · 31-07-2020 12:27pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

My Chambers Dictionary does make the distinction, the brier/briar is a rose, and the bramble is a blackberry bush.

Having said that, we have always called blackberry bushes - briars.

also if you Google briars, selecting "images" you will get "dog roses" and Google brambles on "images", you will get blackberry bushes.

A blackberry Bush is a member of the rose family

briar
noun:
any of a number of prickly scrambling shrubs, especially a wild rose.

bramble
noun:
a prickly scrambling shrub of the rose family, especially a blackberry.

they look fairly interchangeable to me

If I use google images for Briar, blackberry bushes and other wild roses appear in the search.

blackbox · 31-07-2020 1:45pm

emaherx wrote: »

they look fairly interchangeable to me

If you know there are two different plants, why would you want to call them both the same name?

amadangomor · 31-07-2020 2:29pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ivy is like crack cocaine to cattle. They'd smoke if they could.

Granny told me to feed it to a cow who's afterbirth wasn't coming out. Anyone else hear of this "cure"

amadangomor · 31-07-2020 2:33pm

Where I'm from briars are blackberry bushes and bucky briars are the dog roses.

GreeBo · 31-07-2020 2:40pm

Fleetwoodmac wrote: »

We have several hives scattered around, it's the ivy the native honeybees gravitate to and the quality of ivy honey is distinctive in terms of taste and texture. The honey from ivy and also Blackthorn and whitethorn blossom are considered the gold star amongst many beekeepers.

Just because the honey might be nicer doesnt automatically mean we should allow ivy to take over.
There are huge areas of wildflower these days, specifically to support bio-diversity and pollinators.

emaherx · 31-07-2020 3:04pm

blackbox wrote: »

If you know there are two different plants, why would you want to call them both the same name?

Point is the name briar is not a name for any specific plant but a classification of a wild thorny shrub from the rose family and is quite commonly given to any member of that family growing wild in our hedges. Almost everyone I know refer to blackberry bushes (and other thorny bushes) as briars.

Why would you want to give a name intended for a family of plants to just one member?

patsy_mccabe · 31-07-2020 5:51pm

amadangomor wrote: »

Granny told me to feed it to a cow who's afterbirth wasn't coming out. Anyone else hear of this "cure"

Sure did. I was always told it was good for cattle.

Birdnuts · 31-07-2020 6:01pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Just because the honey might be nicer doesnt automatically mean we should allow ivy to take over.
There are huge areas of wildflower these days, specifically to support bio-diversity and pollinators.

You must be joking!! - outside of places like the Shannon Callows nearly all our original wildflower meadows have vanished over the past 60 years. Figures for the the UK show a 99% loss since WW2.

Base price · 31-07-2020 6:09pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Sure did. I was always told it was good for cattle.

ESB crew visited the farm a few weeks ago due to a problem with a line that crosses the farm. OH was talking to them and showed them another line that partially crosses the yard and the gable end of a shed. They said that the line wasn't safe and should not have crossed the yard/shed so they are going to put up a new pole to move it. We had to cut a Ash tree with Ivy growing on it yesterday to facilitate the pole stay wire so that it can be located in the haggard. We had a couple of cows with adopted calves at foot in the field where it fell and they went mad eating the Ivy and Ash leaves.

ganmo · 31-07-2020 7:24pm

Base price wrote: »

ESB crew visited the farm a few weeks ago due to a problem with a line that crosses the farm. OH was talking to them and showed them another line that partially crosses the yard and the gable end of a shed. They said that the line wasn't safe and should not have crossed the yard/shed so they are going to put up a new pole to move it. We had to cut a Ash tree with Ivy growing on it yesterday to facilitate the pole stay wire so that it can be located in the haggard. We had a couple of cows with adopted calves at foot in the field where it fell and they went mad eating the Ivy and Ash leaves.

Sheep will even eat the bark off ash branches

SuperTortoise · 31-07-2020 10:20pm

amadangomor wrote: »

Granny told me to feed it to a cow who's afterbirth wasn't coming out. Anyone else hear of this "cure"

Yep we do it here, there is something to it for sure.

PoorFarmer · 01-08-2020 12:08am

GreeBo wrote: »

Just because the honey might be nicer doesnt automatically mean we should allow ivy to take over.
There are huge areas of wildflower these days, specifically to support bio-diversity and pollinators.

Ivy is good for bees mainly because it flowers so late in the year it can often be the difference between a hive surviving or not.
I have loads of it but it hasn't taken over. Like most things it needs to be controlled so a snip every now and again keeps it in check without killing it off completely.

On a side note was fencing a field today that had the hedges failed Sept 2018. Briars I reckon have grown max 6 feet in that time

80sDiesel · 01-08-2020 9:06am

Every field wants to be forest. And how It tries to achieve that is by taking it over with thorny scrub so that pioneer tree species can gain a foothold. Unless you plant some trees in the hedgerows to eventually shade out the scrub they will continue their battle.

Frankx · 01-08-2020 10:06am

I cut away the ivy from 2 trees yesterday

Just happened to see this thread, they were swamped with it , inch thick vines going up the trees

coolshannagh28 · 01-08-2020 1:08pm

amadangomor wrote: »

Where I'm from briars are blackberry bushes and bucky briars are the dog roses.

They are two different animals . one ,the briar, is a nuisance and fairly benign , the other the bucky briar has the most evil thorns imaginable.

Glenomra · 01-08-2020 1:46pm

the country is indeed becoming overgrown. The fact is that is what the government wants to happen. They see that as protecting the environment. I live close to the Shannon and went for walk along its bank recently. A pathway that was easily accessible is now inaccessible. two reasons, one is forcing farmers to put their farm fences well back from the river and secondly, the fact that the older fishermen who used the path regularly and kept the path clear are dying off and not being replaced. Younger people on their media, not fishing.!!!! The situation was highlighted for me this morning when I walked across our own yard, to find a fe****g briar had encroached in about six feet from the neighbour's hedge. If left unattended, the briars would take over a property within months.

GreeBo · 01-08-2020 3:20pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

You must be joking!! - outside of places like the Shannon Callows nearly all our original wildflower meadows have vanished over the past 60 years. Figures for the the UK show a 99% loss since WW2.

You are talking about original areas, I'm referring to the new ones that are being purposefully created.

White Clover · 01-08-2020 5:52pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

You must be joking!! - outside of places like the Shannon Callows nearly all our original wildflower meadows have vanished over the past 60 years. Figures for the the UK show a 99% loss since WW2.

You're being a tad sensationalist with that statement. Look at all the posters that were on the hay making thread in the last month, from all corners of the country I'd bet. What kind of meadows do you think they were?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 01-08-2020 6:24pm

Glenomra wrote: »

the country is indeed becoming overgrown. The fact is that is what the government wants to happen. They see that as protecting the environment. I live close to the Shannon and went for walk along its bank recently. A pathway that was easily accessible is now inaccessible. two reasons, one is forcing farmers to put their farm fences well back from the river and secondly, the fact that the older fishermen who used the path regularly and kept the path clear are dying off and not being replaced. Younger people on their media, not fishing.!!!! The situation was highlighted for me this morning when I walked across our own yard, to find a fe****g briar had encroached in about six feet from the neighbour's hedge. If left unattended, the briars would take over a property within months.

There's a reason for that though, and a good one for once.

The fence is supposed to be 1.5m out from the river bank and left with a thick cover of vegetation. This is to reduce dramatically the overflow from land after heavy rains, which are much more common now that previously, because that runoff from heavier land tends to be higher in levels of N.

The bank of vegetation reduces the absolute N levels due to higher infiltration rates due to the water and dissolved nutrients being held longer and reduces the concentration of those N levels due to slowing the runoff waters passage into the stream now being diluted from higher flow levels of water.

Birdnuts · 01-08-2020 7:27pm

White Clover wrote: »

You're being a tad sensationalist with that statement. Look at all the posters that were on the hay making thread in the last month, from all corners of the country I'd bet. What kind of meadows do you think they were?

You don't create a wildflower meadow overnight - traditional wildflower meadows had species like Cowslips, Orchids etc. in it. Just cos hay is made in a field does not mean it becomes a great place for pollinators overnight - especially if the previous management involved chemical fert and herbicides. The ongoing decline of many bumblebee species etc. shows that. Which brings me back to my original point about hedgerows with ivy etc. being the only source of pollen/honey on many farms these days.

Birdnuts · 01-08-2020 7:29pm

GreeBo wrote: »

You are talking about original areas, I'm referring to the new ones that are being purposefully created.

That is to be welcomed but its still a drop in the ocean compared to the situation only 50 fifty years ago

amadangomor · 01-08-2020 9:57pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Sure did. I was always told it was good for cattle.

Cavan as well? My grandfather had loads of the cures for animals and had them in a book that was lost.

amadangomor · 01-08-2020 10:00pm

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

They are two different animals . one ,the briar, is a nuisance and fairly benign , the other the bucky briar has the most evil thorns imaginable.

Yep, remember it when following my father shooting pheasants going through rough ditches or going fishing myself and it if it caught you would rip you apart.

ruwithme · 01-08-2020 10:36pm

No need for razor wire round the top of the prison wall, if you had a line of the bucky briar growing up there.

worded · 02-08-2020 12:45am

Roundup is poisonous to humans and may be responsible for a host of health issues

Please don’t use it for everyone’s sake

patsy_mccabe · 02-08-2020 9:02am

worded wrote: »

Roundup is poisonous to humans and may be responsible for a host of health issues

Please don’t use it for everyone’s sake

You should tell that to most gardening enthusiasts. Go into any B&Q, Woodies etc and it's the first thing you will see stacked up high. Farmers only use a fraction of what house owners use.

whisky_galore · 02-08-2020 9:14am

farmertipp wrote: »

I have a neighbour whose whole place is yellow with ragwort . this yr it's worse than ever. why don't they enforce the law?

Years ago it would have been taken seriously, even if the law wasn't enforced, it was a noxious weed, that was all the incentive you'd want to get rid of it. You'd go and pull them by hand yourself, you won't get them all but over time you'll make a dent in the population. Now they're too lazy to get off a tractor to do that.

Castlekeeper · 02-08-2020 10:12am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You should tell that to most gardening enthusiasts. Go into any B&Q, Woodies etc and it's the first thing you will see stacked up high. Farmers only use a fraction of what house owners use.

On a sheer acreage basis I'd never have thought so, where did you see that?
I suppose another difference is that as farmers , we're applying it directly or indirectly into the human food chain.

worded · 02-08-2020 10:31am

Just a quick google for roundup

Roundup causes cancer. Buyer pays out billions in US

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/business/roundup-settlement-lawsuits.html

02-08-2020 10:36am

worded wrote: »

Just a quick google for roundup

Roundup causes cancer. Buyer pays out billions in US

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/business/roundup-settlement-lawsuits.html

The case is rubbish, only reason there is any payout is that it’s America claim culture.

Roundup is essential for farming.

worded · 02-08-2020 10:39am

Castlekeeper wrote: »

On a sheer acreage basis I'd never have thought so, where did you see that?
I suppose another difference is that as farmers , we're applying it directly or indirectly into the human food chain.

It’s banned in lots of counties

We are paddy last it seems

https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/toxic-tort-law/monsanto-roundup-lawsuit/where-is-glyphosate-banned/

GreeBo · 02-08-2020 10:41am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You should tell that to most gardening enthusiasts. Go into any B&Q, Woodies etc and it's the first thing you will see stacked up high. Farmers only use a fraction of what house owners use.

B&q stuff is all glyphosate free these days

Dinzee Conlee · 02-08-2020 3:23pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Years ago it would have been taken seriously, even if the law wasn't enforced, it was a noxious weed, that was all the incentive you'd want to get rid of it. You'd go and pull them by hand yourself, you won't get them all but over time you'll make a dent in the population. Now they're too lazy to get off a tractor to do that.

Was driving on the Cork - Fermoy motorway and there was motorway maintenance lads picking ragwort on the side of the motorway...

As for too lazy to get off a tractor - you sound like every old lad giving out about the younger generation... And the generation before you said the same about your lot...

02-08-2020 4:23pm

Arlo High Cowhand wrote: »

The case is rubbish, only reason there is any payout is that it’s America claim culture.

Roundup is essential for farming.

They paid out early due to it being lethal/cancerous.....if they had been found liable in a court of law,they would been bankrupt by end of the week

Roundup is important for farming,but dont think for 1 second it isnt cancer causing or poisionus....anyone i ever known,who done contract spraying for years,died of cancer/kidney failure.

its to farming,what aspestos was to building

blackbox · 03-08-2020 1:50pm

GreeBo wrote: »

B&q stuff is all glyphosate free these days

This is just virtue signalling.

I'm not going to claim that Roundup is completely harmless, but it is much less toxic than many other herbicides.

Biscuitus · 03-08-2020 1:51pm

farmertipp wrote: »

I have a neighbour whose whole place is yellow with ragwort . this yr it's worse than ever. why don't they enforce the law?

whisky_galore wrote: »

Years ago it would have been taken seriously, even if the law wasn't enforced, it was a noxious weed, that was all the incentive you'd want to get rid of it. You'd go and pull them by hand yourself, you won't get them all but over time you'll make a dent in the population. Now they're too lazy to get off a tractor to do that.

Its a biennial airborne weed. Enforcing a law would be like fining farmers for littering when a tayto packet blows in. You can't stop ragweed. It will always be there and as much as you can sort out your own farm it will mean nothing if neighbours don't either. The council in my county have abandoned maintaining roadways completely. Ragweed everywhere let flower and spread without a care. Now all the surrounding fields are covered.

I had my farm spotless. It cost a lot in spray and many days pulling but last 2 years there was barely anything and that got pulled. Then builders dug up about 20 acres near my farm and this year I'm covered worse than I've ever been.

2 years of near spotless fields but because of the council and my neighbours I'm covered again so I should get a fine?

farmertipp · 03-08-2020 5:30pm

if there was a rounded approach to the problem. the guy who caused it gets hit. I know a farmer who had furze in a corner and dept rang to know what he was growing. he was an old man and had to get a digger to remove it. so they c as n see it and track it if they wanted to.
I'm talking about severe infestation. you cant see the grass in this place. a sea of yellow.
****er should be committed.

Biscuitus · 28-09-2020 11:07am

Straw yields way down this year and grass growth rapidly dropping yet briars growing 6-10 feet this year. madness!

Local contractor doing hedges says it's great for him. Hedges he cut way down at the start of the year have 3 years worth of growth now and he'll be busy for weeks on end.

Siamsa Sessions · 28-09-2020 12:13pm

Biscuitus wrote: »

Straw yields way down this year and grass growth rapidly dropping yet briars growing 6-10 feet this year. madness!

Local contractor doing hedges says it's great for him. Hedges he cut way down at the start of the year have 3 years worth of growth now and he'll be busy for weeks on end.

Seems to be a year for weeds and other undesirables. Would it be the extra heat we had maybe?

gozunda · 28-09-2020 12:47pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Seems to be a year for weeds and other undesirables. Would it be the extra heat we had maybe?

Our normal climate of wet / humid conditions favours rampant plant growth and weeds thrive in it. Even more so during our warm / wet / humid season.

Lower stocking rstes and restricted hedge management often means weeds have the upper hand.

If we could sell weeds - we'd all be millionaires ...

Siamsa Sessions · 28-09-2020 12:51pm

gozunda wrote: »

If we could sell weeds - we'd all be millionaires ...

Or rushes

Briars and Ivy taking over Ireland

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