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Briars and Ivy taking over Ireland

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    #32
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,058 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Say my name wrote: »
    I think Wrangler referred to this earlier.

    The biggest reason ivy and brambles are perceived to be taking over in some parts is because landowners have been busy out spraying round up on their ditches.

    Landowners have basically made monocultures of their boundaries. The competition has been removed and ivy and brambles take advantage of the situation.

    Now yere looking for another spray to kill the ivy and briars.
    If the roundup was left in the can the problem wouldn't be there.
    Nature abhors a vaccum.

    If you spray a ditch with grazon it'll be a few years before it get's as bad again, also if you spray a bank for a few years with roundup the bank starts to fall away because there's no scutch roots to hold the clay in banks, I used to have a problem with neighbours spraying my banks to get visibility on a private road with roundup, I had to tell one guy three times, eventually I told him he could strim it if he wanted visibility. You wouldn't be surprised to hear it wasn't strimmed

    I think grazeon kills whitethorn as well so you have to be careful


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    #33
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,633 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Say my name wrote: »
    I think Wrangler referred to this earlier.

    The biggest reason ivy and brambles are perceived to be taking over in some parts is because landowners have been busy out spraying round up on their ditches.

    Landowners have basically made monocultures of their boundaries. The competition has been removed and ivy and brambles take advantage of the situation.

    Now yere looking for another spray to kill the ivy and briars.
    If the roundup was left in the can the problem wouldn't be there.
    Nature abhors a vaccum.

    Horsetail is taking over alot of places thanx to the Roundup addiction


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    #34
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭memorystick


    JJayoo wrote: »
    Having a bit of ivy around is handy if you have a sick animal.

    A sheep could be in a bad way refusing to eat grass/concentrate but will go crazy for ivy.

    Yeah but not a jungle of it.


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    #35
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭memorystick


    JJayoo wrote: »
    Having a bit of ivy around is handy if you have a sick animal.

    A sheep could be in a bad way refusing to eat grass/concentrate but will go crazy for ivy.

    Yeah but not a jungle of it.


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    #36
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    Ivy and trees have been around for millions of years and there are still trees.

    Trees will still get plenty of light on their leaves. If a tree does fall that's the cycle of nature and a new tree will take it's place and the tree rotting down will add to the ecosystem.

    As mentioned spraying weedkiller fks up the balance of the ecosystem and you end up with more problems than it solves.


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    #37
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭tanko


    Frankx wrote: »
    Thanks

    Does the tree come back after the ivy?

    That depends on whether or not the ivy has smothered and killed it.


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    #38
    Frankx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Frankx


    tanko wrote: »
    That depends on whether or not the ivy has smothered and killed it.

    How would you know


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    #39
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    amadangomor wrote: »
    Ivy and trees have been around for millions of years and there are still trees.

    Trees will still get plenty of light on their leaves. If a tree does fall that's the cycle of nature and a new tree will take it's place and the tree rotting down will add to the ecosystem.

    As mentioned spraying weedkiller fks up the balance of the ecosystem and you end up with more problems than it solves.

    I have huge ash and oak trees here that my Grandfather set. I don't want them knocked.

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #40
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭tanko


    Frankx wrote: »
    How would you know

    It’ll be obvious if the tree is dead.
    Just cut the Ivy and hope for the best.


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    #41
    Frankx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Frankx


    tanko wrote: »
    It’ll be obvious if the tree is dead.
    Just cut the Ivy and hope for the best.

    Obvious how though I'm no tree expert


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    #42
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,058 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Frankx wrote: »
    Obvious how though I'm no tree expert

    There should be leaves on the trees this time of the year, if there's not it's dead


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    #43
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,618 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    I have huge ash and oak trees here that my Grandfather set. I don't want them knocked.

    Spraying chemicals all over them seems like a sound solution...

    ..


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    #44
    Frankx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Frankx


    wrangler wrote: »
    There should be leaves on the trees this time of the year, if there's not it's dead

    Looks to be leaves on them

    Bark doesn't look the best


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    #45
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    listermint wrote: »
    Spraying chemicals all over them seems like a sound solution...

    ..

    I don't spray them with chemicals. Do you use any weed killer yourself?

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #46
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,058 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    listermint wrote: »
    Spraying chemicals all over them seems like a sound solution...

    ..

    If you need to kill a tree you have to drill holes in it and inject roundup into it so a spraymist isn't going to be much harm


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    #47
    Castlekeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Spray with Asolux.

    Chain harrowing or rolling this time of year, is meant to do a good job of halting their progress as well...

    Sorry to correct you but the time for that was in the spring. They're dying away from September anyway.
    Knock the young fronds for a few years and they're well shook and the grass has plenty space to re establish.


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    #48
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    I don't like spraying briars. I'd rather just cut them back but the work involved seems endless. I cut them back with a battery hedge cutter but maybe I'm getting too old for that now.
    Ivy adds a lot of weight and wind drag to tall trees, helping to bring then down in high winds. Whenever there's a storm here it is nearly always the ivy laden ones that come down.
    I haven't sprayed the hedges/under the electric fence since 2017 and I haven't used any herbicides around the farm or yard since 2018.
    I have a small (3') old Bamford flail that I use to trim behind the fences during the closed period and I use a similarly aged Lely 4 disc mower to top under them during the Summer. I previously posted (a couple of years ago) looking for recommendations for a light weight petrol hedge trimmer as I was getting too old/worn out using my brothers powerful but heavy Tanaka long reach one. I bought a McCulloch ErgoLite for about €240 and it's the best yoke I've bought in years. I can run along behind the fence and trim off the overgrowing briars, whitethorn and whins.
    https://besthedgetrimmers.co.uk/best-petrol-hedge-trimmers/mcculloch-ergolite-6028/


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    #49
    Castlekeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    tanko wrote: »
    It’s not true to say that if a tree is healthy that ivy won’t bother it.
    Ivy will smother and eventually kill the trees and do the same with the likes of whitethorn bushes.
    Large parts of this country will be sterilized of farmers and briars and weeds will cover the country with the way things are heading.

    Trees quickly come through the briars , youdo have the makings of a nice young forest in 10 years.


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    #50
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Frankx wrote: »
    I think I've a problem with ivy on a mature tree

    How do u take it off
    Look at the base of the tree and see where the Ivy stems are growing up. Cut a section of the Ivy stems near the base of the tree (1' or 2'), then cut another section about 4" up. If its mature Ivy get a hammer or pinch bar and prise the cut sections out to leave a gap. The uppermost part of the Ivy will die but the stem end will still continue to grow. If you want to kill off the stem end then paint those sections nearest the ground with an approved brushwood herbicide. Depending on the age of the Ivy growing on the tree there maybe several Ivy stems intersecting each other so follow each stem as it appears around the base and around the trunk of the tree.

    Most people think that Ivy is a parasitic plant (like mistletoe) and that it lives off the nutrients on the tree that it growing on - it doesn't. Ivy has its own system that transfers nutrients/water between it's root and leaves.

    TBH I quit cutting Ivy stems on our trees several years ago after listening to Philip McCabe (RIP) - the bee man on Mooney Goes Wild. He told how important Ivy flowers are to our bumblebees so that they could stock up stores coming into Winter. Ivy comes into flower in Autumn so its a very important plant for our wild bees and pollinators to store up for Winter.


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    #51
    HillFarmer
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭HillFarmer


    This thread is the reason we need more funding in pillar II of CAP.
    Spraying ditches, FFS. Do any of you care about the nature part of farming?

    I'm sickened tbh reading half of it.

    We all love livestock and farming in general but we have a responsibilty to protect the wildlife and habitats that exist on our farms.

    I have Ivy growing on all my trees, they haven't killed one yet.


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    #52
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Castlekeeper wrote: »
    Sorry to correct you but the time for that was in the spring. They're dying away from September anyway.
    Knock the young fronds for a few years and they're well shook and the grass has plenty space to re establish.

    Are you sure about that? Fairly sure ausulox goes out in late July/ August and kills bracken for the following year


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    #53
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    It's the hypocrisy about spraying that gets to me. Every house owner I know uses weed killer to keep the driveway and lawn in pristine condition. These are the first then to complain about farmers using sprays.

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #54
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,037 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Whatever about bio diversity i think this thread proves theres plenty diversity in people .cut-dont cut.spray-dont spray.roundup-grazon.ivy kills'ivy dont kill.the briars are a disgrace-we dont want manicured.my own thoughts are alot is down to part time farming and full time having too much to do and the average age of farmers going up.


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    #55
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    Castlekeeper wrote: »
    Sorry to correct you but the time for that was in the spring. They're dying away from September anyway.
    Knock the young fronds for a few years and they're well shook and the grass has plenty space to re establish.

    Correct away :)

    Re ivy - ivy wont kill a tree, but a good few trees around would be knocked because of the amount of ivy on them. I try to cut it off trees when it gets too strong, as I don't want trees knocked...


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    #56
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    amadangomor wrote: »
    Ivy and trees have been around for millions of years and there are still trees.

    Trees will still get plenty of light on their leaves. If a tree does fall that's the cycle of nature and a new tree will take it's place and the tree rotting down will add to the ecosystem.

    As mentioned spraying weedkiller fks up the balance of the ecosystem and you end up with more problems than it solves.

    That's all well and good until the tree fall out onto the road and lands on top of a car. Or a house. Or falls on an electric fence and shorts it out and the cattle are out on the road at night.

    Then the responsibility for any deaths or accidents lands squarely on the shoulders of the landowner.

    The countryside is a managed ecosystem.


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    #57
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »
    That's all well and good until the tree fall out onto the road and lands on top of a car. Or a house. Or falls on an electric fence and shorts it out and the cattle are out on the road at night.

    Then the responsibility for any deaths or accidents lands squarely on the shoulders of the landowner.

    The countryside is a managed ecosystem.

    Fair point, in these places definitely makes sense to manage it.


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    #58
    mr.stonewall
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Time seems to be the big issue with management of hedgerows. Would love to be doing more. Have stopped the spraying with only a small bit done now. Every year there is some stuff knocked by the wind. Thankfully in fields. Also do some coppicing mainly with sallys. Otherwise they get over grown. All the timber is used to heat the house in a gasification boiler. A fair bit of work to gather up that wood. Surely I'm doing good for the environment rather than buying 1500litres of kerosene and managing the environment. Like bass, I have and old hedgecutter on the tractor. Use it to tip behind the wire in the closed season. Try to get to wire every 2nd year but it's weather dependent.

    Just wondering are you allowed a finger bar attachment for cutting under wire outside of the closed season. Just my thinking hat on.

    As farmers we all manage out farm environment to a high standard, but the limiting factor is time and money.


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    #59
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    Cut ivy off the big mature trees here a few years ago and the now look fantastic. Would do a few every couple of years. I fold briars back into the ditch and let them grow away there. Cutting them is pissing against the wind.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    Cut ivy off the big mature trees here a few years ago and the now look fantastic. Would do a few every couple of years. I fold briars back into the ditch and let them grow away there. Cutting them is pissing against the wind.

    If you get rid of the briars completely and keep areas sprayed you will keep them away. Its walls not ditches in our case but we are working though the full farm cleaning all rubbish away from along walls, trees, briars etc. We would drive along the wall with the loader and uproot them completely and push them out the way into the field then to take away. Then spray the area after the wall has been repaired. Lovely to see a nice clean field edge and wall compared to overgrown with briars.

    I'm not really familiar with ditch management as we don't have any but with walls trees and briars are a serious nuisance as they knock the walls, prevent you repairing them etc and as someone else said earth your electric fences, sheep get caught in them etc.


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    #61
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,633 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    mr.stonewall wrote: »
    Time seems to be the big issue with management of hedgerows. Would love to be doing more. Have stopped the spraying with only a small bit done now. Every year there is some stuff knocked by the wind. Thankfully in fields. Also do some coppicing mainly with sallys. Otherwise they get over grown. All the timber is used to heat the house in a gasification boiler. A fair bit of work to gather up that wood. Surely I'm doing good for the environment rather than buying 1500litres of kerosene and managing the environment. Like bass, I have and old hedgecutter on the tractor. Use it to tip behind the wire in the closed season. Try to get to wire every 2nd year but it's weather dependent.

    Just wondering are you allowed a finger bar attachment for cutting under wire outside of the closed season. Just my thinking hat on.

    As farmers we all manage out farm environment to a high standard, but the limiting factor is time and money.

    I think too some of the so called "hedge cutters" ie contractors, are clueless when it comes to properly cutting and shapping hedges. Saw some awfull examples recently that were simply clumsy slash jobs - you would swear along some sections he was using grenades rather than a flail!!:confused: ANyway such poor mangement damages the young trees and bushes to such an extent it stunts/destroys their regrowth and so allows the likes of Briars to potentially take over and undermine the solidity of the entire hedge.


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