Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

hatrickpatrick · 20-09-2018 9:33am

Bill is now scheduled for debate next Wednesday. I'd suggest keeping up the lobbying this week, scare the sh!te of enough politicians to get it filibustered again

McMurphy · 20-09-2018 9:37am

oceanman wrote: »

no, but you will when this new pricing comes into effect ..

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?

Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

incentsitive · 20-09-2018 9:45am

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

I hope with minimum pricing comes a deposit on cans also - if some scumbag thinks it is OK to throw a can/bottle on the street, they should be getting hit with a 50c deposit for their troubles. On my street there was about 50 cans just thrown in a pile where obviously the lads had a great old time before leaving their mess for somebody else to clean up.
The amount of bags of rubbish which when the animals pull them open are half-full of cans, bottles, etc is incredible. It would be a start to getting rid of this epidemic off the streets/beaches/parks/bins.

odyssey06 · 20-09-2018 10:15am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?
Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

They want to introduce it at same time but the minimum unit price planned for the North is about 40% less than here, at least that was the last info I read.

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-09-2018 10:32am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?

Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

I think one of the reasons for it being postponed a number of months ago was due to the cross border issues.

This bill has been around for a long time now, it's far from having an easy passage through parliament.

20-09-2018 12:31pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

They want to introduce it at same time but the minimum unit price planned for the North is about 40% less than here, at least that was the last info I read.

You can imagine it can't you? Breaking News: Stormoont sits at last after collapsing 21 months ago. First item for discussion and ratification, Minimum Unit Pricing of Alcohol in collaboration with the Irish Republic's government.

I'd expect it to collapse all over again.

20-09-2018 12:48pm

the_syco wrote: »

Because they don't have the cash. So most will pre-drink at home first.

If the minimum pricing comes in, two things will happen;
black-market booze will become popular
under 18 kids will be able to buy booze with ease

And to add some "joined up thinking", black market sellers don't check for ID. They dont care whether youre 14 or 40, so long as you have cash, you're a potential customer.

This "plan" added to the underlying serious social issues the country is experiencing with a shortage of homes is going to bite us in a few years. You hear lots about the homeless and the single mums of two staying in the Gresham paid for by the council, but you hear very little about the low(and even medium) income workers who are sharing bedrooms with 2 or 3 or 5 others and can be turfed out at any time because someone else is prepared to pay 50 quid more a week.

There was an article I read during the week which said pub prices have risen by 9% since 2013. Inflation currently stands at 0.2%. Same article also said everything from rents to energy costs to transportation costs have gone up in the same period. And yet its a mystery why people aren't going to pubs much anymore.

No houses, money already being squeezed out of everybody, and now they want to make alcohol even more expensive. If this goes through and there isnt some form of civll unrest then I'm outta here.

the_syco · 21-09-2018 8:48pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I thought the master plan was both govts collaborating to more or less have the pricing synchronised - precisely to combat any cross border shopping north to south oral south to north?

Maybe I took that bit up wrongly, so apologies if so.

You have to wonder why NI would shoot itself in the foot by doing this? NI would want people to buy goods from their shops.

elperello · 21-09-2018 9:27pm

the_syco wrote: »

You have to wonder why NI would shoot itself in the foot by doing this? NI would want people to buy goods from their shops.

I'm sure a lot of people in NI would agree with you.

However Sinn Fein in the Dail support MUP and being an "all Ireland party" would most likely do likewise in Stormont.

Also the DUP have a tendency towards puritanism ( recall Dr Paisley often referring to drink as the devils buttermilk).

21-09-2018 11:24pm

My parents are just back from Spain. In the supermarket near the villa, Jameson €16. Jim Beam €11. Almost half the price they are here. But seemingly its too cheap here.

the_syco · 22-09-2018 4:33am

elperello wrote: »

Sinn Fein
...
Stormont.

Yeah, that ain't going to happen anytime soon!

the_syco · 22-09-2018 5:07am

Who's running this? Would like to suggest that, if they're hiking the price, to bring in a recycling tax of 10cents a can, that can be redeemed at certain shops.

listermint · 22-09-2018 5:12am

the_syco wrote: »

Who's running this? Would like to suggest that, if they're hiking the price, to bring in a recycling tax of 10cents a can, that can be redeemed at certain shops.

They have no appetite to work with a scheme remimburimsing retailers all that would require civil servants. This is solely about protecting vinters members.

You've no chance whatsoever of anyone listening to that suggestion as much as then regurgitating tired tropes of alcohol consumption in Ireland that goes against all the stats of the last ten years.

There is liars and believers in government and they are a shower of idiots in the pockets of lobbyists

Fr Tod Umptious · 22-09-2018 3:53pm

listermint wrote: »

They have no appetite to work with a scheme remimburimsing retailers all that would require civil servants. This is solely about protecting vinters members.

You've no chance whatsoever of anyone listening to that suggestion as much as then regurgitating tired tropes of alcohol consumption in Ireland that goes against all the stats of the last ten years.

There is liars and believers in government and they are a shower of idiots in the pockets of lobbyists

But here's the thing

The stats are showing that consumption is down overall, but the decline has been in pubs and independent off-licences.

So there is a decline in going to the pub where drink is most expensive, and there is a decline in people going to the independent off licence where drink is cheaper, there is no decline (or the decline is less) in people going to the supermarket etc where drink is cheapest and where drink can be heavily discounted.

And that's what's being targeted here, dress up as to be of benefit of the health of the nation, but with the added bonus of propping up the pub.

Hector Bellend · 22-09-2018 4:05pm

There's been a running joke for decades in my local.

All the deadbeat dipsos are constantly reminded of how they vowed never to touch a drop of drink ever again if and when the ever pint hit £ 1 in price.

Here we are over 30 years later and they're sitting on the same seat in the same pub and telling the same stories and crying into their € 5.30 pint of guinness.

Minimum pricing is not going to cure problem drinking. It will simply deprive others

Kitty6277 · 22-09-2018 4:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My parents are just back from Spain. In the supermarket near the villa, Jameson €16. Jim Beam €11. Almost half the price they are here. But seemingly its too cheap here.

I'm in the UK at the moment, £16 for a bottle of good gin, double vodkas in the clubs for less than £3 and shots for 90p :rolleyes:

22-09-2018 8:22pm

Kitty6277 wrote: »

I'm in the UK at the moment, £16 for a bottle of good gin, double vodkas in the clubs for less than £3 and shots for 90p :rolleyes:

Shots for 90p?!? Which is what, 1 euro? Short of Diceys or D2 on certain nights with their 3 euro shots, the normal price of a shot here is about 4-5 euros. 4 times our closest neighbour. Admittedly a British shot is smaller at (usually) 25ml versus an irish shot at 35ml, but even so, the disparity in price is still enormous. Put another way, 3 Uk shots = 75ml = 3 euro. 2 Irish shots = 70ml = 8-10 euro.

Kitty6277 · 22-09-2018 9:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Shots for 90p?!? Which is what, 1 euro? Short of Diceys or D2 on certain nights with their 3 euro shots, the normal price of a shot here is about 4-5 euros. 4 times our closest neighbour. Admittedly a British shot is smaller at (usually) 25ml versus an irish shot at 35ml, but even so, the disparity in price is still enormous. Put another way, 3 Uk shots = 75ml = 3 euro. 2 Irish shots = 70ml = 8-10 euro.

That's why every time I go out here, I'm continuously shocked at how cheap it is. On a Monday one of the clubs here does £1 entry and £1 for certain drinks before 12 (I think, could be 11.30). It's just crazy how cheap it is, even doubles of spirits and a mixer are less than £5

cadaliac · 22-09-2018 10:53pm

Kitty6277 wrote: »

I'm in the UK at the moment, £16 for a bottle of good gin, double vodkas in the clubs for less than £3 and shots for 90p :rolleyes:

To be fair, the quality of the cheap stuff in the UK (that is heavily discounted) is usually rubbish. Especially vodkas and energy drinks.
However, even at that, and if you pay more of a premium for main stream brands you still work out a lot cheaper (overall) in the uk.
Unless you are in the middle of the bigger cities - whereas here, you could pay 6 quid for a pint in Dublin and the same in Co. Donegal.
It will vary, but not by much.
There is no advertised happy hour in Ireland....

Re: buying Irish whiskey abroad for 1/3rd of the price it is formally sold at here, well what can I say. There in lies our problem. Greed and tax.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-09-2018 11:34pm

the_syco wrote: »

By "it's not a tax", they mean that the government doesn't get it. The minimum price will just be extra profit for the companies selling it.

Thus, all cans would in theory all be the same price.

I'd have no problem with increasing the tax and ringfencing it for the health services.

But no. All this does is force the supermarkets to take excessive profit on beer they import. It means they can sell the same can for double the price and keep every thing apart from the VAT as pure profit.

Beer is very cheap to make.

This measure won't affect anyone who goes to the pub as normal.

It will affect those who drink at home and at the pub, they'll have less money to spend in the pub.

It affects people who drink at home who will have to spend more on drink. Which means less savings or less spending on other stuff.

Garibaldi? · 23-09-2018 3:15pm

Over the years I have met some people who were really skilled at making their own wine. This could be a great opportunity for people to begin wine-making or home-brewing classes. There would be a market for their expertise.

Leroy42 · 23-09-2018 4:37pm

Whether this is the best way about trying to reduce consumption, it is clear that alcohol is a product that has serious effects on health.

Alcohol causes one in 20 deaths worldwide, says WHO

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/21/5-of-all-deaths-due-to-alcohol-who-says

The Rape of Lucretia · 23-09-2018 5:35pm

It is going the way of smoking, and drinking and driving. Really jacking up the price is one aspect of the fight against the still pretty widespread accepability of drinking alcohol.
The money raised, to be put to education about its damaging effect on health and as a source of further funding to the health service fo help pay the bill of tidying up its mess - today, unfairly footed by all, non drinkers included.

odyssey06 · 23-09-2018 5:41pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It is going the way of smoking, and drinking and driving. Really jacking up the price is one aspect of the fight against the still pretty widespread accepability of drinking alcohol.
The money raised, to be put to education about its damaging effect on health and as a source of further funding to the health service fo help pay the bill of tidying up its mess - today, unfairly footed by all, non drinkers included.

But this isnt about that. This is about herding people to the pub which is why pub owners support it. The price increase goes to the seller not the state. And there is nothing wrong with responsible drinking.

Garibaldi? · 23-09-2018 5:48pm

Everything that is suppressed becomes available on the black market. The forthcoming legislation could prove to be very dangerous indeed with people drinking products containing God knows what!:(

Leroy42 · 23-09-2018 5:51pm

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Everything that is suppressed becomes available on the black market. The forthcoming legislation could prove to be very dangerous indeed with people drinking products containing God knows what!:(

So what, we simply do nothing? Throw our hands up and accept we can do nothing?

There is no doubt, the cigarette companies even acknowledge this, that the level of smoking in countries such as Ireland has dropped significantly.

Drinking causes massive problems. Will this solve them? No. Will it make some people reduce their intake? Yes probably. Will it have an effect on the long term acceptance of alcohol? No idea, but I don't think it will drive it up.

hatrickpatrick · 23-09-2018 5:54pm

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Over the years I have met some people who were really skilled at making their own wine. This could be a great opportunity for people to begin wine-making or home-brewing classes. There would be a market for their expertise.

I've been making my own beer since April using nothing but extract kits and instructions written by the good folks here on Boards' Home Brewing forum, Reddit's /r/homebrewing and Homebrew Talk. And in all honesty, I started doing it out of wanting to be ready to beat the minimum pricing but it's incredibly enjoyable and gives you an epic sense of pride when people like what you make, so I suspect a lot of people who get into it for purely economic reasons might end up finding a new passion in it.

Garibaldi? · 23-09-2018 6:01pm

Thoroughly agree with the last post. The nicest wines I have ever tasted were made at home by people who loved the whole procedure. They were reliable individuals who might have been making a few quid from the hobby but were not putting anyone at risk. It's the large scale anonymous black marketeers that we need to be wary of.

McMurphy · 23-09-2018 6:31pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It is going the way of smoking, and drinking and driving. Really jacking up the price is one aspect of the fight against the still pretty widespread accepability of drinking alcohol.
The money raised, to be put to education about its damaging effect on health and as a source of further funding to the health service fo help pay the bill of tidying up its mess - today, unfairly footed by all, non drinkers included.

What you talking bout? It's not a tax being levied on the stuff.

"The money raised" will be raised by the manufacturers who produce and distribute it, I don't envisage them using it to start a campaign to reprogramme people from consuming their own product - way to kill their very own market.

Have you been following the thread at all, or have you just waded in on a TRoL fest again?

Capt'n Midnight · 23-09-2018 6:42pm

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Everything that is suppressed becomes available on the black market. The forthcoming legislation could prove to be very dangerous indeed with people drinking products containing God knows what!:(

Look at Kenya to see how bad that can get.

Closer to home people have been caught making fake vodka from industrial alcohol tanks some using a bottling plant that fits on the back of a truck.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/massive-alcohol-plant-uncovered-26475653.html
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/pictured-inside-45k-fake-vodka-13363377
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-moonshine-operation-smashed-by-customs-officers-30302121.html

hatrickpatrick · 23-09-2018 8:55pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Closer to home people have been caught making fake vodka from industrial alcohol tanks some using a bottling plant that fits on the back of a truck.

That honestly sounds like a Father Ted pisstake of Breaking Bad

:D:D

VinLieger · 26-09-2018 8:31am

Balls, I thought simon harris had some but nope hes now given in to the stupid nimby cancer labels as well. This bill is a fvcking farce.

Frances black is on newstalk masturbating about how shes managed to make everyones lives that little bit less enjoyable

Hopefully the EU will strike down these stupid cancer labels at least

26-09-2018 9:18am

I have no issue with the cancer warnings. Drink away if ya want, doesn't affect the taste or price.

Leroy42 · 26-09-2018 9:38am

VinLieger wrote: »

Balls, I thought simon harris had some but nope hes now given in to the stupid nimby cancer labels as well. This bill is a fvcking farce.

Frances black is on newstalk masturbating about how shes managed to make everyones lives that little bit less enjoyable

Hopefully the EU will strike down these stupid cancer labels at least

If there is a cancer risk they why do yo think it wrong to highlight that?

Are you against all warning signs?

Hotblack Desiato · 26-09-2018 10:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no issue with the cancer warnings. Drink away if ya want, doesn't affect the taste or price.

There's this thing called the EU Single Market. We're not supposed to be putting up barriers to producers in other countries (or importers based here) and taking actions which restrict competition here.

Alchohol labelling should be standardised across the EU.

This will hit Irish alcohol exporters badly as their product will be the only ones with huge, unjustified scary warnings on the label.

Meanwhile importers of craft / specialised products here are going to either give up on less popular products, or apply stickers by hand, prices go up (even in products way above the MUP price) and competition goes down.

Garibaldi? · 26-09-2018 10:36am

It's going to be very difficult for people to enjoy a social drink given this cancer label staring them in the face. Practically everything we do carries some risk. This warning label cannot be compared to the one on cigarette packets. Moderate drinking is beneficial to people's health.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 26-09-2018 10:47am

This was all Leo Varadkar's idea before he became Taoiseach, right? I remember him spouting some bull**** about this 5 years ago. He's an awful numpty.

It's such a putrid and cynical attempt to just make money off the common, hard-working individual disguised as "for our own good." This is the epitome of authoritarianism. You don't know what's good for you, we do. It's not getting to the root of the issue. Of course, it wouldn't be a very lucrative pursuit to tackle Ireland's binge-drinking issue, realistically. They know that. So they'll just tax us and they'll tax us with extreme prejudice after the Irish Water fiasco.

If there is a cancer risk they why do yo think it wrong to highlight that?

Are you against all warning signs?

We don't need warning signs on everything. You don't see warning signs on every individual knife or fork you use, do you. It's taken as common sense. We can have a warning on the label, alongside the ingredients but people have a responsibility and they are adult enough to look after themselves. The government doesn't have to be our daddy and babysitter holding our hands on everything we do.

VinLieger · 26-09-2018 10:52am

Leroy42 wrote: »

If there is a cancer risk they why do yo think it wrong to highlight that?

Are you against all warning signs?

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no issue with the cancer warnings. Drink away if ya want, doesn't affect the taste or price.

It will affect the price as for many smaller breweries(specifically irish ones) having to create multiple labels for domestic and foreign markets will seriously impact their bottom line.

Legally alcohol is a food not a drug so if we are putting labels on it we logically should be putting labels on every single piece of food that has a link to cancer.

For instance alcohol is rated as a group 1 carcinogen, other such group 1 carcinogens in food are, bacon red meat and other processed meat, ALL barbecued food, hot beverages above 65 degrees.

Do you agree we should be putting cancer labels on all of these foods now too?

Alcohol much like all of the above consumed in moderation has actually proven to be beneficial in the long term.

And much like all of the above alcohol only has a link to cancer when it is consumed in excessive amounts, there is NO evidence that alcohol consumed in moderation causes cancer.

Finally as someone else already said we cannot legally put a barrier to trade in place such as this due to EU regulations

Fr Tod Umptious · 26-09-2018 10:54am

This country really has a bad relationship with alcohol when you have people complaining about a warning label on a product.

Can someone please tell me how it's going to affect your enjoyment of said product?

Leroy42 · 26-09-2018 11:00am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This country really has a bad relationship with alcohol when you have people complaining about a warning label on a product.

Can someone please tell me how it's going to affect your enjoyment of said product?

Exactly. We get the classic whataboutery response about everything is bad for you, why not do something about bacon etc.

When can providing more information ever be deemed to be a bad thing?

And why are you worried about the smaller brewers? Come on, they have been taking advantage of the consumer for years. All this nonsense about craft beers etc, just a marketing exercise to get you to pay more.

There are plenty of examples, on this thread and others, of people brewing their own beer for next to nothing. Yet somehow the craft brewers charge a premium.

So save me the cried of poor mouth for local brewers.

VinLieger · 26-09-2018 11:01am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This country really has a bad relationship with alcohol when you have people complaining about a warning label on a product.

Can someone please tell me how it's going to affect your enjoyment of said product?

Its the inconsistency in the constant attacks on alcohol while ignoring other products that are just as harmful statistically re-cancer but don't fit into the collective group think of "any alcohol = bad"

VinLieger · 26-09-2018 11:04am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Exactly. We get the classic whataboutery response about everything is bad for you, why not do something about bacon etc.

When can providing more information ever be deemed to be a bad thing?

When the information objectively is completely incorrect it most definitely is a bad thing. Alcohol by itself does not cause cancer unlike cigarettes which are being used as an example of why we should be doing this, excessive consumption of it MAY be a cause of cancer, this important nuance is not mentioned anywhere in the legislation or by any of the proponents for this labeling.

weldoninhio · 26-09-2018 11:07am

Turquoise Hexagon Sun wrote: »

This was all Leo Varadkar's idea before he became Taoiseach, right? I remember him spouting some bull**** about this 5 years ago. He's an awful numpty.

It's such a putrid and cynical attempt to just make money off the common, hard-working individual disguised as "for our own good." This is the epitome of authoritarianism. You don't know what's good for you, we do. It's not getting to the root of the issue. Of course, it wouldn't be a very lucrative pursuit to tackle Ireland's binge-drinking issue, realistically. They know that. So they'll just tax us and they'll tax us with extreme prejudice after the Irish Water fiasco.

We don't need warning signs on everything. You don't see warning signs on every individual knife or fork you use, do you. It's taken as common sense. We can have a warning on the label, alongside the ingredients but people have a responsibility and they are adult enough to look after themselves. The government doesn't have to be our daddy and babysitter holding our hands on everything we do.

I wonder will pubs have to provide glasses with warnings printed on them, or prominent warning posters in pubs?? Or is it only canned/bottled supermarket bought alcohol that causes cancer??

Leroy42 · 26-09-2018 11:09am

VinLieger wrote: »

Its the inconsistency in the constant attacks on alcohol while ignoring other products that are just as harmful statistically re-cancer but don't fit into the collective group think of "any alcohol = bad"

But no one is claiming that any alcohol is bad. What they are saying is that the public should be giving the real information, not just the information provided by the PR of the breweries. So Diageo etc get to out out the lifestyle, the fun, the social gatherings line, and it is left to the state to try to balance that with some of the not some fun features of the product.

It is a tricky one because as you say a small amount of the product is probably fine (and certainly IMO no worse than lots of other stuff we are forced to consume and I include air pollution in that) but clearly larger amounts or continual use causes problems.

It is tricky then on how to deal with that. We don't want to go down the road of buying limits so the only alternative is to put it on each product.

Leroy42 · 26-09-2018 11:10am

VinLieger wrote: »

When the information objectively is completely incorrect it most definitely is a bad thing. Alcohol by itself does not cause cancer unlike cigarettes which are being used as an example of why we should be doing this, excessive consumption of it MAY be a cause of cancer, this important nuance is not mentioned anywhere in the legislation or by any of the proponents for this labeling.

So what is the level over which cancer because a risk factor?

I have no idea. I' saying that in case you think I am trying to trick you into an answer, I genuinely do not know what the safe level is.

OldRio · 26-09-2018 11:17am

weldoninhio wrote: »

I wonder will pubs have to provide glasses with warnings printed on them, or prominent warning posters in pubs?? Or is it only canned/bottled supermarket bought alcohol that causes cancer??

Good point. Pub alcohol, Good.
Supermarket alcohol, Bad

I wonder why that is?
Cynical? You bet.

Liamo08 · 26-09-2018 11:17am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This country really has a bad relationship with alcohol when you have people complaining about a warning label on a product.

Can someone please tell me how it's going to affect your enjoyment of said product?

If this goes ahead literally every imported alcohol product will have to be re-labeled with the new warnings attached. If you take wine as an example this will mean that every bottle on the shelves will need to be re-labeled after it enters the country, this will at the minimum come at an additional cost to the consumer and will most likely lead to importers and distributes potentially limiting the variety of products that they import.

I'm pretty sure the extra cost and potential reduced choice will have an impact on peoples enjoyment!

Leroy42 · 26-09-2018 11:24am

Liamo08 wrote: »

If this goes ahead literally every imported alcohol product will have to be re-labeled with the new warnings attached. If you take wine as an example this will mean that every bottle on the shelves will need to be re-labeled after it enters the country, this will at the minimum come at an additional cost to the consumer and will most likely lead to importers and distributes potentially limiting the variety of products that they import.

I'm pretty sure the extra cost and potential reduced choice will have an impact on peoples enjoyment!

MAP will mean that it really won't make any real difference.

10000maniacs · 26-09-2018 11:26am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Whether this is the best way about trying to reduce consumption, it is clear that alcohol is a product that has serious effects on health.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/21/5-of-all-deaths-due-to-alcohol-who-says

What has that got to do with non alcoholics? Why is everybody being hit?
Beer and wine are 4 times cheaper in Spain, so why the alcohol consumption rate less in Spain?
This minimum pricing farce has nothing to do with peoples health. Its an attempt by Fine Gael (and FF too) to bail out their vintner buddies.

VinLieger · 26-09-2018 11:27am

Leroy42 wrote: »

But no one is claiming that any alcohol is bad. What they are saying is that the public should be giving the real information, not just the information provided by the PR of the breweries. So Diageo etc get to out out the lifestyle, the fun, the social gatherings line, and it is left to the state to try to balance that with some of the not some fun features of the product.

It is a tricky one because as you say a small amount of the product is probably fine (and certainly IMO no worse than lots of other stuff we are forced to consume and I include air pollution in that) but clearly larger amounts or continual use causes problems.

It is tricky then on how to deal with that. We don't want to go down the road of buying limits so the only alternative is to put it on each product.

Jesus when did everyone need to be babied so much, if people don't have the cop on to understand anything in excess is probably bad for you then they deserve whatever the results are.

Are we going to put warnings on ice cream now that too much might make you fat?

Depending on the person to much excercise can also be bad for you, wheres the warnings plastered all over the gym, or on all exercise gear and equipment?

Watching TV or sitting in front of a computer all day everyday isnt great for your health either, wheres the warnings on chairs, couches or TV's?

Seriously what happened to personal responsibility?

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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