Does the Irish army do much to defend Ireland?

questionmark? wrote: »

The N.Ireland that the people of the Republic gave up a claim to in a democratic election? Damn democracy getting in your way of invaders claim.

It was a remark made in jest, of course

ED E wrote: »

Not that it really matters but it would be nice to see the PDF have at least a few mobile SAM platforms as a mild deterrent. But then I suppose we'd need the facility to actually monitor our airspace and there's no hope of enough coppers for that.

There are a handful of these...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_70
it's very modest though.

The white paper commits to radar at some point in the next decade.... at a cost of just €10m

Luckyfran wrote: »

A fully 'qualified' soldier is on what ?

Luckyfran wrote: »

Im assuming a soldier is on 40k
after 5 years or so I wish you lads knew how lucky you are

Word to the wise : stop digging. Honestly. Its getting silly.

Carmen Dry Stepmother wrote: »

Its painfully obvious that those slating the Defence Forces have no idea what they do.

I'd be fairly confident that those same people have forgotten or weren't born when the PDF were emptying bins during the rubbish strike...I can't imagine any of these imaginary Guards would do the same.

Did that Gave me an apprecciation of what the bin men do

wendell borton wrote: »

Muslamic ray guns and the queen of England.

Garbage.

tac

Luckyfran wrote: »

Tbh anytime i hear the public sector i wanna puke.

great input

Grab All Association wrote: »

I once seen the IDF up at the Devil's Bit Templemore. They lit the fire by rubbing sticks together, erected their tents, stitching badges on their vest and were singing camp fire songs.

What were the israelis doing in Templemore :eek:

cajonlardo wrote: »

What were the israelis doing in Templemore :eek:

...

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No, of course. We're chimps really. Any moron can quickly learn and adapt to a variety of skills and drills relevant to all of the weapons systems they might be required to use at a moment's notice; maintain a comprehensive understanding of military and civilian law relevant to their job and interpret high pressure situations in terms of their responsibilities, vulnerabilities and limitations; interface with civilian populations to de-escalate violent and potentially violent situations; operate a variety of communications equipment; drive a variety of vehicles, any one of which might be the entire job of someone in the private sector, in conditions that would never be encountered in the private sector; maintain their fitness, physical and mental discipline such that they can deal with being away from their families and friends for long periods of time in conditions that range from near Arctic cold to equatorial heat and tropical jungle conditions, coupled with very real threat to life and health; confront natural disasters and domestic incidents within Ireland and respond to calls at any time of day, all year round. All for the princely sum of half what you guessed we were on. If you're such a rocket scientist, a ten second Google search would have gotten you the pay scale, but I guess that's the work ethic you get in the private sector...

You are biting very hard.

I'm not belittling your post and appreciate all of what you said but if this thread has demonstrated anything its that the general perception of the DF is that they are a waste of money.

Spelling it out won't change some of these mindsets.

The DF offers excellent value for money for the minimal funds it receives. I believe the last Defence budget was approximately €850m. Of this 70% roughly goes to pay and pensions, the rest of paying for new equipment and the day to day running of the entire DF.

That budget wouldn't last long if it was poured into the HSE pot.

What I would say is the allocation of funds and resources is completely wrong. Historically the majority of resources were directed to the army, with the Naval service and Air Corps scrapping for the rest. For an island nation we do not have the maritime or aerial assets we should have. But then, someone would have to take defence seriously and shake this notion of 'neutrality' from the psyche.

I know the army types won't like to hear this but the closure of barracks and restructure to two brigades was required and I would fully support the continued reduction as long as the savings were ploughed into the two other branches.

The judges give them two options prison or the army

Pugzilla wrote: »

Exactly, which is why don't need an Army. We're not worth invading.

The only aspects of the defense forces we legitimately need are the navy and air ambulance service.

Without an army that can operate under rules of war we would have been seriously threatened by the IRA. The police, for a number of reasons, can only ever fill in a quasi-military role. Just like a military can only fufill a stop-gap policing role during emergencies.

It's very easy to say that the guards could do EOD and special forces. They could.

What if the IRA had decided to hold some ground during the 80s because Irish government forces were so weak? Take over Shannon or Dublin airport to **** up Irish international trade and embarrass the government. They had high-caliber weapons, 50 cal machine guns, RPGs, IEDs, grenades, small mortars, improvised gas canister mortars etc... No police SWAT team could take on a small, paramilitary force like that.

Instead, by having an army (underfunded and under-equipped) with artillery, machine guns, armored vehicles. surveillance drones, helicopters, javelin missile launchers and thousands of men who are more expendable (politically and operationally) than gardaí, it's not even an option for any terrorist/paramilitary force.

Plus, we exist under the British born tradition of unarmed policing. It's very different to armed policing which isn't suited to Ireland for many reasons. Most people don't want that to change.

Aside from dissuading internal aggression (and to some extent, external) the army also use equipment to rescue people, aid during national disasters and help during huge national events (visits of Obama/Queen and during Special Olympics). They perform great during UN missions (golan heights being most recent) and offer a final line of defense to protect the state from civil unrest. These kind of vehicles are not suited to policing. Guards driving all terrain trucks and armored jeeps does not make for good community relations (see NI PSNI land rovers). Trying to pawn this off on the civil defense would be unworkable and only lead to even more under use of resources.

I haven't seen one thing on this thread apart from UN peacekeeping missions that couldn't be done cheaper by militarized police wing. Think French style gendarmerie.