[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman NO STREAMING REQUESTS

Spazdarn · 19-12-2014 5:31pm

cowzerp wrote: »

Marquez was robbed and either way, Marquez who Mayweather made look like a complete donkey gave Manny awful trouble, and that was by doing what Floyd is the king at, counter punching.

He's the only counter puncher of note Manny faced

Easy to forget Mayweather came in heavy for that fight, against an opponent he was already bigger than... even then styles makes fights.

cowzerp · 19-12-2014 5:40pm

walshb wrote: »

He was not robbed in any. First fight Manny won. JMM was very competitive but was difficult to argue him winning 3 fights. The final fight was clear due to the sudden KO. Anyway, your point about Manny being somehow protected and matched with the "right" opponents is off the mark IMO. Just because Floyd beat up JMM means very little when matching Manny and Floyd. Manny and JMM are polar opposites. JMM gave Manny trouble, but still he didn't beat him, and Manny gave him a lot of trouble too.

it means something because it's well known Manny doesn't like Counter punchers and 1 leagues below Floyd gave Manny serious problems

Littlehorny · 19-12-2014 10:05pm

cowzerp wrote: »

it means something because it's well known Manny doesn't like Counter punchers and 1 leagues below Floyd gave Manny serious problems

If this is true and what with Mayweather being the bigger man then it should be an easy fight for Floyd. Why do you think Mayweather hasn't fought and beaten Pacquiao by now so?

cowzerp · 19-12-2014 10:17pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

If this is true and what with Mayweather being the bigger man then it should be an easy fight for Floyd. Why do you think Mayweather hasn't fought and beaten Pacquiao by now so?

i said already it would be, very easy.

JacksonHeightsOwn · 20-12-2014 1:02am

walshb wrote: »

He was not robbed in any. First fight Manny won. JMM was very competitive but was difficult to argue him winning 3 fights. The final fight was clear due to the sudden KO. Anyway, your point about Manny being somehow protected and matched with the "right" opponents is off the mark IMO. Just because Floyd beat up JMM means very little when matching Manny and Floyd. Manny and JMM are polar opposites. JMM gave Manny trouble, but still he didn't beat him, and Manny gave him a lot of trouble too.

im neither a Floyd nor Pacquaio fanboy. So id like to think im fairly neutral regarding this. But isnt it common knowledge that when Pacquaio fought bigger guys, he made them fight at a catchweight below their actual weight, then put in clauses in the contracts that had the fighters pay crazy money for every pound they would gain?

I thought i heard whatever weight De La Hoya gained over the fight weight limit he forfeited $1 million per pound.

Pacquiao also fought Cotto, for Cotto's title as well, at a weight below what the title was. So in the record books it looks like Manny jumped up in weight, but there's no denying he certainly did it on his terms.

So to say Manny hasnt been matched better than Floyd is a bit disingenuous. They're both guilty of having the cards dealt in their favour.

Henno30 · 20-12-2014 3:58pm

chrisbonnie wrote: »

im neither a Floyd nor Pacquaio fanboy. So id like to think im fairly neutral regarding this. But isnt it common knowledge that when Pacquaio fought bigger guys, he made them fight at a catchweight below their actual weight, then put in clauses in the contracts that had the fighters pay crazy money for every pound they would gain?

I thought i heard whatever weight De La Hoya gained over the fight weight limit he forfeited $1 million per pound.

Pacquiao also fought Cotto, for Cotto's title as well, at a weight below what the title was. So in the record books it looks like Manny jumped up in weight, but there's no denying he certainly did it on his terms.

So to say Manny hasnt been matched better than Floyd is a bit disingenuous. They're both guilty of having the cards dealt in their favour.

He fought De La Hoya at 147lbs. Everyone was saying he was going to get slaughtered.

He fought Cotto at 145 when Cotto weighed in for his previous fight at 146. Again, everyone said it was ridiculous and he needed the fight to be at 143 to have a chance.

He fought Margarito at 150 in what he describes at the toughest fight of his life. Margarito was a career welterweight, yet by fighting three pounds heavier at 150 Pacquiao is supposed to have drained him?

Complete and utter nonsense. And penalties for coming in overweight are standard, not some secret clause invented by Pacquiao.

People need to go back and read what was actually written when Pacquiao moved up to the welterweight division. It was regarded as madness. But because he made it look so easy all his critics have to tell themselves it was.

walshb · 20-12-2014 8:47pm

chrisbonnie wrote: »

I thought i heard whatever weight De La Hoya gained over the fight weight limit he forfeited $1 million per pound.

Oscar weighed 148 lbs unofficially on fight night. I never heard any 1 million dollar per lb fine for over an agreed fight night limit....

kryogen · 20-12-2014 9:20pm

cowzerp wrote: »

no he didn't, scared of needles he is, apart from tatoos

Could have sworn I read that in the end they actually gave in to him on everything, I'll check it out again I suppose.

I have no idea what Mayweather ducked him for so long for (if it does go ahead this time) he was always going to be a heavy favorite (in my eyes) to win it and I would say that as a big Manny fan!

At this point its a bit like the Leonard/Hagler fight to me

kryogen · 20-12-2014 9:22pm

cowzerp wrote: »

no he didn't ha!! thats gas, always lads who were easy to land clean on, and never good counter punchers bar Marquez and we all know how they went

Manny fought what was out there, Morales, Barrera, Cotto, De La Hoya, Margerito etc etc the bigger guys at weights that were widely expected to be too much for him

To say he has been matched with easy fighters is an insult to all concerned and unfair.

zindicato · 22-12-2014 12:31am

Dont see this fight happening in the near future sad really this would have been a great fight years ago ....... really it isnt the first time floyd has said he wants manny ,,, remembered him saying pacquiao was next after ortiz then he had amnesia about it then got all defensive when asked about it by the press...... to much stuff to consider all of them are floyds demands anyways.....,
1.testing- pacquiao agreed already to everything
2.money split- pacs offered to fight for free for charity
3.show airing- floyd wont fight on hbo just showtime and nowhere else but las vegas ( xyxlocaine use is ok in las vegas)
4.gloves- floyd will probably ask pac to use a thicker gloves like what he did with maldana
5.bob arum- he will come up again as an issue why this fight wont push through
6.date- max kellerman here explains why http://thaboxingvoice.com/max-kellerman-doesnt-think-that-mayweather-pacquiao-will-happen-in-may/37215

Heres ESPN's first take on Pacs response to Floyds May 2 statement http://boxingnewsvideos.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/espn-1st-take-manny-pacquiao-responds.html

zindicato · 22-12-2014 12:35am

cowzerp wrote: »

Marquez was robbed and either way, Marquez who Mayweather made look like a complete donkey gave Manny awful trouble, and that was by doing what Floyd is the king at, counter punching.

He's the only counter puncher of note Manny faced

Floyd made JMM jump to two divisions for his fight with him and you dont hear people complain about it.:rolleyes:

Henno30 · 22-12-2014 3:31am

cowzerp wrote: »

Marquez was robbed and either way, Marquez who Mayweather made look like a complete donkey gave Manny awful trouble, and that was by doing what Floyd is the king at, counter punching.

He's the only counter puncher of note Manny faced

Yes, Marquez and Mayweather are the exact same fighter. Well done, you've solved it. Go directly to Ring Magazine and put an end to this debate once and for all.

walshb · 22-12-2014 10:20am

Henno30 wrote: »

Yes, Marquez and Mayweather are the exact same fighter. Well done, you've solved it. .

Apart from being good counter punchers I see nothing similar. Marquez is an offensive counter puncher who throws a lot more leather than Floyd. Floyd is more a pot shotting defensive counter puncher. Both men IMO present Manny with issues, but Manny we know presented a lot of issues to JMM. I believe he could present issues to Floyd.

Sugar Thief · 22-12-2014 1:44pm

walshb wrote: »

Apart from being good counter punchers I see nothing similar. Marquez is an offensive counter puncher who throws a lot more leather than Floyd. Floyd is more a pot shotting defensive counter puncher. Both men IMO present Manny with issues, but Manny we know presented a lot of issues to JMM. I believe he could present issues to Floyd.

Right now he would present issues, but only because Floyd is starting to show his age.

walshb · 22-12-2014 1:57pm

Sugar Thief wrote: »

Right now he would present issues, but only because Floyd is starting to show his age.

Right now Manny is also showing his age. At any point in the last 4-5 years I think Manny would have presented issues.

Littlehorny · 22-12-2014 9:56pm

Sugar Thief wrote: »

Right now he would present issues, but only because Floyd is starting to show his age.

Pacquaio is well in his thirties as well and has had a much harder career which is a point that should be made. Alot more mileage on Pacquaio's clock, so can't say that as both are past there peak.

Sugar Thief · 23-12-2014 12:08am

Littlehorny wrote: »

Pacquaio is well in his thirties as well and has had a much harder career which is a point that should be made. Alot more mileage on Pacquaio's clock, so can't say that as both are past there peak.

He's still good enough to cause problems for an over the hill Mayweather.

Talib Fiasco · 29-12-2014 8:21pm

Floyd is really worried about May 2nd. Al Haymon has apparently offered Cotto 40m to drop the proposed Canelo fight and get in the ring with Floyd again. What an absolute joke. First off it'd ruin a massive fight between Canelo/Cotto which has FOTY written all over it already, and especially on May 2nd it'd be a massive event. Secondly Floyd again is ducking not only Pac but Khan now as well by leaning towards Cotto. This'll be a dark day if this fight is made.

walshb · 29-12-2014 8:25pm

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Floyd is really worried about May 2nd. Al Haymon has apparently offered Cotto 40m to drop the proposed Canelo fight and get in the ring with Floyd again. What an absolute joke. First off it'd ruin a massive fight between Canelo/Cotto which has FOTY written all over it already, and especially on May 2nd it'd be a massive event. Secondly Floyd again is ducking not only Pac but Khan now as well by leaning towards Cotto. This'll be a dark day if this fight is made.

And, at what weight? Cotto can still make 154 lbs I would say, considering he was 155 lbs for Martinez. Floyd might not be all that keen on Cotto this time around. Although he beat him, Cotto presented a lot of problems for him, and with Roach with him maybe it won't be such a sure thing this time.

Talib Fiasco · 29-12-2014 8:47pm

walshb wrote: »

And, at what weight? Cotto can still make 154 lbs I would say, considering he was 155 lbs for Martinez. Floyd might not be all that keen on Cotto this time around. Although he beat him, Cotto presented a lot of problems for him, and with Roach with him maybe it won't be such a sure thing this time.

Knowing Floyd it'll be at a catchweight for Cotto's MW belts...that'd make me sick. Cotto can pose problems for sure, he showed that in the first fight but I still don't think he has it in him for 12 rounds. But yeah he has arguably as good a chance now considering Roach and Mayweather's slight decline....regardless I'll be extremely pissed off if it happens

walshb · 29-12-2014 11:42pm

pac_man wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if it happened at 160. Gives Mayweather another belt at a new weight which in turn adds another layer to his legacy.I just hope to jaysus it doesn't happen.

160 with a catchweight. Just like Cotto-Martinez!

kryogen · 29-12-2014 11:47pm

But I thought Floyd wants Manny, like he has always wanted the fight..........yeah

2old4dacold · 30-12-2014 10:04pm

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Floyd again is ducking not only Pac but Khan now as well by leaning towards Cotto.

I'm starting to think that he'll fight anyone bar Khan .... not so long ago he was "leaving it up to the fans" whether he'd fight Khan or Maidana .... he then went with Maidana (who Khan had beaten) .... meanwhile Khan is impressive against Collazo surely putting himself in the mix after Floyd duly beats Maidana .... but no, Floyd takes on Maidana again ????? and duly beats him again .... Khan goes on to give an exhibition against Alexander (who Floyd once hailed as the heir apparent) but Floyd gets in first talking of Pacquaio and now Cotto .... if he plays it out long enough we'll be back to Ramadan and then he'll tell us Khan is ducking him

on the Pac situation it's interesting that he's mad for the fight after Manny is beaten twice including a heavy KO .... Floyd is on the slide and he knows it, but he thinks Manny is worse and if he has to, will use it to avoid Khan

Floyd has an illustrious list of big names on his record, but there's not too many of them that got their first loss against him

all jmho, and while I think Khan can give Floyd all sorts of problems, the prospect of the crowing on Sky if he were to beat him, galls me

Talib Fiasco · 30-12-2014 10:08pm

I think if the Cotto rematch is what's gonna happen, best case scenario would be that Cotto forces Floyd to fight at 160 or else jog on and let Cotto fight Canelo which would be as big for Cotto. At 160 Cotto could cause some real damage to Floyd while Floyd would be a lot heavier than he'd be comfortable with. Pipe dream though

walshb · 30-12-2014 10:29pm

The Floyd fight is much better for Cotto in terms of the risk and danger. I am not sure of the financial difference, but he would make a serious amount, that is for sure.

Spazdarn · 31-12-2014 12:31pm

walshb wrote: »

The Floyd fight is much better for Cotto in terms of the risk and danger. I am not sure of the financial difference, but he would make a serious amount, that is for sure.

Again it depends on what weight, if it was 160, Floyd would really be taking a risk, whereas at 154, he's playing it safe again.

walshb · 31-12-2014 1:25pm

Spazdarn wrote: »

Again it depends on what weight, if it was 160, Floyd would really be taking a risk, whereas at 154, he's playing it safe again.

I am not sure a 6 lbs heavier Cotto is anything different. He's not all that great anyway. Might even be a tad slower weighing 160 + lbs on fight night.

Strongbow10 · 01-01-2015 3:27am

walshb wrote: »

I am not sure a 6 lbs heavier Cotto is anything different. He's not all that great anyway. Might even be a tad slower weighing 160 + lbs on fight night.

Agree.

Floyd would probably still come into the ring between 147 and 150lbs.

Even if Cotto did weigh 160, Mayweather would be too slick and hard to hit.

Love to see Andy Lee in with Cotto, really think a proper middleweight would beat Cotto quite easily.

Henno30 · 01-01-2015 3:31pm

pac_man wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if it happened at 160. Gives Mayweather another belt at a new weight which in turn adds another layer to his legacy.I just hope to jaysus it doesn't happen.

Floyd will chase that fake history if he can. It fits too perfectly with the nature of his career.

I think Cotto believes Roach has restored the style he once had at his 140lb peak, and that given how hard he pushed Floyd last time, he'll stand a real chance of beating him fighting in his old aggressive posture.

But in reality I think all Cotto has done is beat a crocked, one-legged fighter who had just been beaten by Martin Murray. Cotto was dominated by Austin Trout in the second half of their fight, at 154. He's barely even a force at 154. At middleweight he's a novelty act.

For these reasons, both will see opportunities in fighting the other. I hope it doesn't happen, but given how long the Cotto-Canelo negotiations have dragged on it's bound to be a possibility.

kryogen · 14-01-2015 11:56am

Apparently Top Rank are saying Manny has agreed everything for a fight on May 2nd with Mayweather so its down to him again if true, if it goes ahead it will be in the MGM grand in Vegas, 2nd May.

walshb · 14-01-2015 12:07pm

kryogen wrote: »

Apparently Top Rank are saying Manny has agreed everything for a fight on May 2nd with Mayweather so its down to him again if true, if it goes ahead it will be in the MGM grand in Vegas, 2nd May.

Interesting. Floyd usually has his opponent picked by February if memory serves me. I am excited. Not massively, like I would have been in 2009/2010, but excited nonetheless!

boxer.fan · 14-01-2015 12:38pm

walshb wrote: »

Interesting. Floyd usually has his opponent picked by February if memory serves me. I am excited. Not massively, like I would have been in 2009/2010, but excited nonetheless!

I promised myself I would not be getting myself hyped about this until i'm sitting in front of the box at stupid o clock with a few tins, a heap of popcorn & Buffer / Lennon jnr doing the intro.

walshb · 14-01-2015 12:41pm

Apart from the names involved I don't see anything exciting here. Style wise this is probably going to be a bad fight. With Manny's sort of predictable, and at times, reckless offense, and Floyd's OTT caution and spoiling I see a lot of shots missing and a lot of posturing and inside spoiling. I would have to back Floyd, as for me me it's his size that could be the real factor.

On a side-note they are looking at generating a live gate of 40 Million dollars! Wow.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2015/1/13/7542117/pacquiao-agrees-to-terms-for-mayweather-fight-on-may-2

I just hope that if BoxNation get this that they won't PPV it. As far as I know they have never done that!

boxer.fan · 14-01-2015 12:54pm

Floyd's timing of the right hand will be key, & we know how good he is at it. I don't think his jab to the body will be of much use with Manny being a fairly mobile southpaw.

walshb · 14-01-2015 1:04pm

boxer.fan wrote: »

Floyd's timing of the right hand will be key, & we know how good he is at it. I don't think his jab to the body will be of much use with Manny being a fairly mobile southpaw.

The whole fight could be won with the lead right and the jab. Floyd just does not put combinations together very well. If Manny isn't fast enough, or if Floyd's reflexes are good enough, I see Manny going over Floyd's shoulder the entire night, with Floyd ducking low, ref breaking it, couple lead rights or jabs, and rinse and repeat....

Littlehorny · 14-01-2015 7:11pm

walshb wrote: »

The whole fight could be won with the lead right and the jab. Floyd just does not put combinations together very well. If Manny isn't fast enough, or if Floyd's reflexes are good enough, I see Manny going over Floyd's shoulder the entire night, with Floyd ducking low, ref breaking it, couple lead rights or jabs, and rinse and repeat....

Hope the ref is strong in this case, i wonder will the choice of ref cause an argument if the negotiations get that far. I still get angry to this day the way Hatton was treated by Joe Cortez when he fought Mayweather. He never got a chance to get stuck in at all.

Deiseboy01 · 15-01-2015 1:55pm

I still think Mayweather will find a way to avoid Pacman.

I think Pacman wins this and Floyd knows it.

Thought Floyd looked poor v a relatively limited Maidana and was badly buzzed too, that tells me his punch resistance is fading. I think he won't get away with holding and spoiling as the ref will hopefully be more neutral than is normal given Pacmans status as a legend and fan favorite, Mayweather won't be the overwhelming attraction in this scrap that should ensure more equitable refereeing. Pacman will take advantage, start at a savage pace and use his movement to really pressure Floyd, being the agressor may sway the judges to award him rounds even if Floyd potshots.

Would love to see the fight but I don't think it'll happen.

Que formal announcement this afternoon!

walshb · 15-01-2015 4:16pm

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

I still think Mayweather will find a way to avoid Pacman.

I think Pacman wins this and Floyd knows it.

Thought Floyd looked poor v a relatively limited Maidana and was badly buzzed too, that tells me his punch resistance is fading. I think he won't get away with holding and spoiling as the ref will hopefully be more neutral than is normal given Pacmans status as a legend and fan favorite, Mayweather won't be the overwhelming attraction in this scrap that should ensure more equitable refereeing. Pacman will take advantage, start at a savage pace and use his movement to really pressure Floyd, being the agressor may sway the judges to award him rounds even if Floyd potshots.

Would love to see the fight but I don't think it'll happen.

Que formal announcement this afternoon!

Interesting take. I will lean with Floyd here. Range and size being important. If Manny is real clever and not too anxious he could make Floyd lead, and that may be important. If Manny can really pick and choose his attacks and nip in and out then Floyd may be forced to be the aggressor. That could work to Manny's advantage.

If Manny is too eager I see him getting picked off with pot shots. Manny needs to be more unpredictable with his offense than ever before. Floyd likely needs to be more active and busy than he has been in quite some time.

Deiseboy01 · 15-01-2015 10:31pm

walshb wrote: »

Interesting take. I will lean with Floyd here. Range and size being important. If Manny is real clever and not too anxious he could make Floyd lead, and that may be important. If Manny can really pick and choose his attacks and nip in and out then Floyd may be forced to be the aggressor. That could work to Manny's advantage.

If Manny is too eager I see him getting picked off with pot shots. Manny needs to be more unpredictable with his offense than ever before. Floyd likely needs to be more active and busy than he has been in quite some time.

Despite your earlier post I think you're getting excited by this one :-)!

Littlehorny · 19-01-2015 8:05pm

Cotto's fight with Canelo is starting to look shaky. He has said he is open now to a Mayweather fight. Hope this talk doesn't get legs as Cotto might be willing to fight for a lot less money than Pacquiao. This might be enough to turn Mayweathers head.

kryogen · 19-01-2015 10:02pm

All the talk is that Hayman and Mayweather are actively pursuing the fight with Cotto, don't think its Mayweathers head needs turning to be perfectly honest.

Henno30 · 19-01-2015 11:13pm

The back channels have been open between Haymon and Cotto all along. The question is whether it's Plan A or Plan B.

Littlehorny · 21-01-2015 11:01am

Just read online that Pacquaio has issued an end of the month deadline to Mayweather, he also said that he will go into talks with Amir Khan for a fight in April or May if the contracts are not signed by Mayweather by the 31st.

walshb · 21-01-2015 11:18am

Don't be at all surprised if Mayweather seeks Cotto again. I have a feeling this fight will be made. Anyway, Khan-Pac is for me a tastier match than Floyd-Manny!

Littlehorny · 21-01-2015 12:13pm

The Khan vs Pac fight can happen later down the line, c'mon we all want to see the big one happening- finally!!!

kryogen · 21-01-2015 12:49pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

The Khan vs Pac fight can happen later down the line, c'mon we all want to see the big one happening- finally!!!

As usual the ball is in Mayweathers court.

Spazdarn · 21-01-2015 2:55pm

It won't be Manny and Khan though it'll be Manny and some Top Rank B or C list fighter as it's easier to make... Vargas being mentioned..

Henno30 · 21-01-2015 10:31pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

The Khan vs Pac fight can happen later down the line, c'mon we all want to see the big one happening- finally!!!

I very much doubt it's happening. All the talk from Floyd is depressingly familiar. He just doesn't seem to want any part of Manny.

As walshb said, Floyd-Cotto 2 for the 'middleweight championship' seems far more likely.

walshb · 22-01-2015 2:09pm

Alex Ariza gave a recent interview where he said Mayweather won't be figting Manny on May 2nd

"In a recent interview with .abs-cbnnews.com, Ariza said something that just might cause a big wave of displeased fan outbursts: “It’s not going to happen. We’re fighting May 2nd but it’s not going to be Manny Pacquiao. Hopefully eventually Bob Arum will blow away in the wind or whatever. As soon as we get rid of him, we can get it on.”

The Bob Arum angle is likely just another obstacle being used by team Mayweather.

kryogen · 22-01-2015 9:48pm

Its just rinse and repeat tbh, same song and dance over the years.

[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman **NO STREAMING REQUESTS**

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[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman NO STREAMING REQUESTS