Why are women allowed to smoke while pregnant?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Ok so a person reports what appears to be a pregnant woman smoking. The guards arrive but there is no sign of her so they review CCTV footage. It's not clear if she is just overweight or pregnant. So do they then release images on crimeline or something to track her down just to even determine if a crime has been committed?

Or someone reports that they saw their pregnant neighbour smoking. The guards arrive and the woman denies it. What do they do? Get a search warrant to look for evidence? Say they find cigarettes but the woman claims they belong to her partner. What then? In the meantime, waiting for her court appearance a perfectly healthy child is born, as is the most likely outcome even amongst smokers. It all just seems like it would be a huge waste of time and police resources.

Well it does when you present specific hypothetical scenarios like that which appear at least to make it a huge waste of time and police resources. I don’t think anyone has argued that the Gardai follow pregnant women around for the duration of their pregnancy to ensure they don’t smoke (how handmaids tale would that be? ). No, rather when a complaint is made, a decision is made that depending upon the circumstances whether it is worth pursuing an investigation or not. Very simple, and Gardai do that sort of thing all the time when someone makes a complaint to them.

jackboy wrote: »

The law shouldn’t be needed then. Just seems like a waste of time.

And you have to wonder if the prospect of being charged with a crime would actually deter women from smoking or deter those who want to stop from admitting it to their midwife or doctor. It's just a stupid idea tbh

ceadaoin. wrote: »

And you have to wonder if the prospect of being charged with a crime would actually deter women from smoking or deter those who want to stop from admitting it to their midwife or doctor. It's just a stupid idea tbh

If people actually want to stop smoking, that’s a different issue entirely from prohibiting people from smoking. The prospect of being criminalised for a behaviour certainly does act as a deterrent for people who would wish to engage in that behaviour. It shouldn’t be the case that we shouldn’t introduce laws because it might discourage people from admitting they want to violate those laws. Surely that’s entirely their own responsibility?

People throwing their cigarette butts out of cars for instance, DCC are issuing them with fines as this article says like it’s going out of fashion (and it is is going out of fashion to throw cigarette butts out of their cars, likely because they know they’ll be fined if they’re caught) -


Drivers must obey the litter of the law . . .


EDIT: Updated quite a bit since 2006


Since 2009, Irish anti-smoking campaigners and scientists had been urging the government to introduce such a ban. In July 2011 the Minister for Health said that he was considering a ban where children are present in the car. On January 1st 2016, regulations make it an offence for a person to smoke in a private vehicle when there is more than one person present and there is a person under the age of 18 present. The offence would fall on the person smoking regardless of their age.

The senator and oncologist John Crown put a bill before parliament in 2012 to ban smoking in a car with children. This bill was passed into law in December 2014 with an expectation that enforcement by Gardaí would commence in 2015.


Ban on smoking in private vehicles

knipex wrote: »

So until the the moment of birth a baby is not a life or a person and has no legal rights?? Is there a specific moment, when it crowns ? When the head emerges ? When the full body emerges ? When the cord is cut ?

I am no religious nut, I votes yes in the referendum but that's just nonsense..

When it's fully born and detached, it's legally a person. It's not nonsense, its a fact of law.

That’s a matter of personal choice- I believe most pregnant women smokers are aware of the risks. I believe doctors will help them to quit if they want to.
That’s said, I’m a non- smoker but I hated it when someone would tell me “you shouldn’t eat/drink that” when I was pregnant. I’d walk with a cup of coffee at work and there would be 5 people telling me I can’t have coffee while I’m pregnant. Mind your own business

Haley Spicy Spat wrote: »

So it's illegal to smoke with kids in the car but it's fine if the kid is in the womb where it can't even open a window?

It's illegal to sell children Alcohol but it's fine to force them consume it in the womb.

Am I missing something here?

Yes - context.

Haley Spicy Spat wrote: »

What context would you like?

I’m not asking for any context, I can see the context in which you’re making a comparison between two different circumstances already. You asked what you were missing in the two circumstances you presented, and I simply pointed out that what you’re missing is context if you can’t see that they are two different circumstances.

Haley Spicy Spat wrote: »

So it's illegal to smoke with kids in the car but it's fine if the kid is in the womb where it can't even open a window?

It's illegal to sell children Alcohol but it's fine to force them consume it in the womb.

Am I missing something here?

Yes you are missing the already explained fact: its not a person before its born. One woman can do as she likes to her own body.

You don't have to like it, or approve. You just have to understand the irrelevance of your opinion.

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

4pm they're not a person, 9pm they're a person.

The self delusion...

Foetal alcohol syndrome, heroin addicted newborns - fuq em, they weren't people and the woman can do what she likes.

You are just wrong if you think pregnant women generally "do what they like" with no care for the health of their future baby. IME the vast majority do everything they can, in fact the problem is often that the information given is so contradictory and confusing that it's very hard to know what the right thing to do is.

For the tiny minority who don't take care, it's hard to see how making a law would help. When it's because of psychological or other personal issues, criminalising her would only add to the problem by making it harder for a woman to seek help during her pregnancy.

Separately, it's offensive in the extreme for the vast majority of women who are desperate to do everything they can to protect their baby if the default legal position is that all women need to be treated as potential criminals who do not have the best interests of their children at heart. That would also set a dangerous precedent for parental rights after birth.

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

I of course don't think that. Just can't stand when people say "she can do what she likes, it's her body - there's no baby until it's born". It's absurd.

In the context of what women are allowed to do (ie this thread) it's the only correct answer.

But literally nobody thinks that women should be encouraged to smoke, drink or take drugs during their pregnancy.

The other thing is that Ireland has a shameful record of criminalising women over reproductive issues (including contraception), and a pretty poor record of caring for vulnerable children once they're born, so it's disingenuous to pretend that what's behind this authoritarianism is concern for children. It's about controlling women.

Hence the rather blunt replies.

prior to 12 weeks the foetus has no right to live. Post 12 weeks it can only be killed under certain circumstances. But no where does it say it has a right to a healthy smoke free life. Once the foetus is born and becomes a baby, it has a right to proper care, you cant smoke in the car with it etc.

Stab*City wrote: »

Everybody seems to be able to do what they want with there own bodies. I still cant even smoke a joint in peace.

Portugal shows that there are very good reasons for decriminalising drugs, so off you go and start a campaign, you have quite a good case.

What you don't have though is any case for making abortion illegal just because drugs are. It's a totally different issue. Women don't ever have their first abortion because they think it sounds like fun, for one thing. Nor are abortions even potentially addictive.

"Why are women allowed..."

hush now child.