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I bet you didn't know that this thread would have a part 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,032 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    I've seen worse totalitarian systems.
    There was an interesting talk, recorded as a podcast available here, that Irish professor and investment banker Michael O’Sullivan gave to the London School of Economics (LSE) back in June. He covers a lot of ground related to his latest book, The Levelling, but the part that stuck out to me was a reminder that the debate between totalitarianism and personal freedom is far from new.

    The title refers to the Levellers: not the band, but the 17th century socio-political movement. Around the same time, Thomas Hobbes' book Leviathan advocated for wise, authoritarian government to take care of the people. In the latter case, the understanding was that the ruler had to be really good at it, what we would call a Technocrat today.

    In the light of China's "big government" initiatives, such as the above-mentioned social credit scoring, the idea that total individual freedom is best is being challenged. Big government has been tried before, under various names, and has always failed in various ways. What if China gets it right this time? Not perfect - tough "edge cases" will always exist and mistakes will happen - but good enough? It's a scary thought.

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Wibbs wrote: »
    +1000 R. What Orwell missed was that people would happily line up in their droves to ask for Big Brother.

    Though I'm not so sure the Chinese system will go over nearly so easily in the West, at least to that degree. Chinese culture from Confucius onward has and continues to see and elevate social compliance as a virtue. From the family to the culture to the centralised state. Even in naming order the family name comes first. In contrast to western thought individualism is barely present in the culture. It's seen as a negative. I'm not too surprised they went along with even supported this TBH.
    I just wanted to come back to this because teaching literature over the years I've found it borne out very often. International students from China have a serious problem getting their head around the idea of plagiarism, and the notion that it is a violation of academic honesty policies. Their education reinforces the idea that your job as a student is to absorb the wisdom of authority figures, and reproduce it.

    It's a massive issue then in an English class, because what you get is often almost verbatim reproductions of the book chapter and journal articles you've assigned, which are written by authorities on the subject, and thus reproduced. This is obviously an automatic zero, and it's really hard to explain to students raised this way that our whole objective is to learn to think critically about what we read, challenge ideas, and create arguments of our own through careful synthesis of other ideas. That kind of critical framework just isn't really there, and isn't terribly valued by their educational system as it is (or at least should be) by ours.

    I've had serious plagiarism issues with students from southern Europe (Italy and Spain), but very rarely with Americans, or Germans, and not really in any serious way with Irish students either. But with the southern Europeans it was quite obviously pure laziness, while with the Yanks and Germans it was often calculated malice. The Chinese are unique for doing this in total good faith, assuming, in fact, that what they were doing was really exemplary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,558 ✭✭✭✭Fourier


    The Chinese are unique for doing this in total good faith, assuming, in fact, that what they were doing was really exemplary.
    This extends very far back into how their Imperial bureaucratic training was about copying Confucian classics. Very old tradition.

    I was actually reading about how Chinese characters work recently and I thought it was an interesting system. Apparently 97% of characters break down into what are called a radical and a phonemic part. The radical tells you what broad category of things or meaning the word falls into and the phoneme tells you what it rhymes with.

    So:
    蛾 = Moth, has two characters.

    The first part is 虫 meaning "insect", the second part is 我 meaning "I" or "me".

    So over all it reads "Is an insect, rhymes with I/me".

    The difficult thing is that the "rhymes with" part is based on how things sounded circa 200 BC, so sometimes they don't really rhyme anymore. They cleaned this up a bit after the Communist revolution replacing the rhyme part in many words with something that did rhyme in contemporary language.


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Marcos


    bnt wrote: »

    In the light of China's "big government" initiatives, such as the above-mentioned social credit scoring, the idea that total individual freedom is best is being challenged. Big government has been tried before, under various names, and has always failed in various ways. What if China gets it right this time? Not perfect - tough "edge cases" will always exist and mistakes will happen - but good enough? It's a scary thought.

    You think that’s scary, look at what they are doing in Xinjiang right now. I’m not just talking about the camps. There’s a report in yesterday’s Sunday Times about this. It’s fairly long and behind a paywall so I’ll give you a summary. A Chinese journalist went there undercover posing as a visiting businessman and reported back what he saw. All front doors had QR codes which could be scanned by police, large camera gantries every 100 yards. Police checkpoints with people queuing to have their IDs, faces and phones scanned.

    Beijing has invested $7.2 billion in techno security and large tech companies are using it as a real world lab to test their Integrated Joint Operations Platform (IJOP). Including Huawei and Leon Technology.

    The Xinjiang Security Model will be exported elsewhere in China, any betting on Hong Kong being next?

    The facial recognition also checks facial expressions to see if people are nervous! As if that wasn’t enough people have Han Chinese living in their houses spying on them, inputting biographical data to profile each person they’re monitoring. People also have had to go to “convenience” police stations set about every 500 yards apart to submit further data i.e blood, dna, fingerprints and voice samples. Finally they are also required to download special govt apps that give officials full access to their phones.

    One leading cyber security expert on China described all this as having “global implications because this is the early stages of governance that is controlled through advanced predictive algorithmic surveillance networks. If those systems were exported, that would be a massive setback to the cause of human freedom, to liberal democracy throughout the world.”

    Scary doesn’t even begin to describe it.

    Sauce: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bar-codes-and-cameras-track-chinas-lab-rats-dmm63kt36

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    New Home wrote: »

    I've seen worse totalitarian systems.

    1000 posts in new thread ..... Yeahh!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    To be a saint in Catholicism, you need to have performed a miracle (and one after death too I think)

    When I go abroad and visit churches I often take a minute to read up on the miracles attributed to the saint of the local sightseeing church.

    It's actually good fun because the stories are so silly.

    Today was saint Anthony (the finding lost stuff fella). He made a hungry donkey bow down to him instead of eating for one miracle!

    Rewatched a foot instantly to a lad who chopped his off in another.

    And a big macho knight demanded a miracle, went to smash his glass on the ground , but the glass didnt break and smashed the tiles on the floor instead!

    Also, I bet you didn't know they have his tongue on display in Italy because he was such a good speaker....bizarre


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    To be a saint in Catholicism, you need to have performed a miracle (and one after death too I think)

    When I go abroad and visit churches I often take a minute to read up on the miracles attributed to the saint of the local sightseeing church.

    It's actually good fun because the stories are so silly.

    Today was saint Anthony (the finding lost stuff fella). He made a hungry donkey bow down to him instead of eating for one miracle!

    Rewatched a foot instantly to a lad who chopped his off in another.

    And a big macho knight demanded a miracle, went to smash his glass on the ground , but the glass didnt break and smashed the tiles on the floor instead!

    Also, I bet you didn't know they have his tongue on display in Italy because he was such a good speaker....bizarre

    That must be class 2, at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,510 ✭✭✭VW 1


    Ipso wrote: »
    That must be class 2, at least.

    Right up there with the holy stone of clonrichert


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    It's illegal to own just one guinea pig in Switzerland because they get lonely.

    https://www.techly.com.au/2016/03/14/in-switzerland-its-illegal-to-own-just-one-guinea-pig-due-to-loneliness/


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    While we all know of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films, the idea of making a film of the book came quite soon after publication and many were drawn to it before Peter rolled the cameras, one of the very first was of all people, the band the Beatles. John Lennon was a major nerdfan of the books and wanted to do it, with the others in the band in different roles. They approached Stanley Kubrick as their choice of director. Tolkein apparently was the one who said no.

    And funny enough the very last film the Beatles produced as a band; the documentary Let it be, is currently being completely restored, re-edited and remade from the many hours of original footage by none other than one Mr Peter Jackson.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Wibbs wrote: »
    While we all know of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films, the idea of making a film of the book came quite soon after publication and many were drawn to it before Peter rolled the cameras, one of the very first was of all people, the band the Beatles. John Lennon was a major nerdfan of the books and wanted to do it, with the others in the band in different roles. They approached Stanley Kubrick as their choice of director. Tolkein apparently was the one who said no.

    And funny enough the very last film the Beatles produced as a band; the documentary Let it be, is currently being completely restored, re-edited and remade from the many hours of original footage by none other than one Mr Peter Jackson.

    Oh, is he doing his colorisation malarkey?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,516 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Oh, is he doing his colorisation malarkey?

    Was let it be not shot in colour?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,558 ✭✭✭✭Fourier


    Oh, is he doing his colorisation malarkey?
    He's adding the Mouth of Sauron as the fifth Beatle in the extended edition. Poor guy was kicked out by Lennon for being a mouthpiece for a timeless evil and being late for gigs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Wibbs wrote: »
    While we all know of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films, the idea of making a film of the book came quite soon after publication and many were drawn to it before Peter rolled the cameras, one of the very first was of all people, the band the Beatles. John Lennon was a major nerdfan of the books and wanted to do it, with the others in the band in different roles. They approached Stanley Kubrick as their choice of director. Tolkein apparently was the one who said no.

    And funny enough the very last film the Beatles produced as a band; the documentary Let it be, is currently being completely restored, re-edited and remade from the many hours of original footage by none other than one Mr Peter Jackson.

    Speaking of Let it Be, wasn’t that their second last studio album but last to be released as they spent ages producing it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh, is he doing his colorisation malarkey?
    Nah, like OhnoG said it was shot in colour originally. Their famous rooftop set was basically the end of the film.



    He's got access to all the original footage and is essentially making an entirely new film from it. The original was a bit of a rush job and none of them were entirely sold on it.
    Ipso wrote: »
    Speaking of Let it Be, wasn’t that their second last studio album but last to be released as they spent ages producing it.
    Yep they weren't really sure what they were aiming to do with it. A fly on the wall documentary of the making of an album with a big live gig at the end. The Albert hall was one idea, renting a cruise ship another(good weed involved there). In the end they couldn't be arsed and just went upstairs to the roof of their Apple records offices and did it there. Which kinda turned out to be more "iconic" than any standard gig and copied a few times since.

    They gathered themselves to do Abbey Road and that was a much happier set of sessions that they pulled together for one last time and it was the last time they were all together in the studio(one of the last was a song fittingly called "The End"). After that they were in essence over as a band and only met over lawsuits. Then another album was required(by contract IIRC?) so they went back and gave all the tapes to Phil Spector and he produced it(which McCartney apparently hated. I'd agree.). They did some overdubs for the Let it be album in 1970 but not all four of them together.

    One of the last photos of them as a band in 1969.

    The+Beatles'+Last+Photo+Shoot+August+1969+(61).jpeg

    Game over.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Actually speaking of Liverpudlian laziness :D Their last recorded album Abbey Road was originally gonna be called Everest after the mountain, but also because they were also a brand of ciggies one of them liked.

    Everest_belgian_version_extra_mild_ks_20_s_belgium.jpg

    The original plan for the cover was to nip off to India and take a pic at the base of the mountain of the same name and that would be the album cover. But after the happy buzz died down and they ran out of dope... McCartney as usual when the others couldn't be arsed, came up with the idea of the studio as the album title and roughed up the idea of the cover. They got permission to hold up traffic for ten minutes one morning, the photographer on a step ladder took a half dozen photos and that was it. Some where they walked towards the studio, some where they walked away, like the final cover.

    Abbey-Road-Outtake.png

    Ends up being one of the most iconic album covers ever. It was also their first(and one of the first) to not have the album title nor their name on the cover*. EMI initially objected saying it would impact sales if people didn't know who they were, which in the 60's was highly unlikely. Needless to say it sold squillions.



    *though their White album only had their name embossed not printed

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    MUSIC STORIES

    There was great rivalry between the Beatles and Beach Boys back in the day. When Beach Boys released Pet Sounds, the Beatles realised the bar for music had been raised, and went and recorded Sergeant Pepper. The Beach Boys then went back into the studio and began to lay down SMiLE. It was going to be legendary. But change after change came, and it was never quite right. It spent decades being tweeked and became known as Wilsons Lost Masterpiece. AFAIK it was never released. Pity.

    The Police song Every Breath You Take (penned by Sting) , was about a bitter break up with his partner, Frances Tomelty. Years later, he wrote (when you love somebody) Set Them Free, as an apology and showing how he should have reacted to the breakup.

    Robert Johnson was a jobbing itinerant blues musician in the 1930s. Then in 1936 he recorded an album that transformed Delta Blues and reserved his place as a legend. His transformation to genius guitarist has created a particular legend about him selling his soul to the devil (at the crossroads). Another brilliant album in 1937 followed, but Robert had no commercial success in his lifetime. He died alone at the side of the road in 1938 .... aged 27.

    Other musicians that died aged 27:
    Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, and Kurt Cobain ..... But thats a story for another day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    In keeping with the 50th anniversary of the (alleged:D) moon landing.

    All the Apollo astronauts were very proficient gaelic handball players (No, honestly they were!)

    It stems form the fact that a lot of Irish immigrants ended up working in the military or emergency services, so it was common practice for military bases, police and fire stations to have handball courts and regular tournaments, kill the boredom and keep fit with the benefit of requiring very little space and practically no equipment.

    When the space race began NASA, required all would be astronauts to stay in peak physical fitness, but offered no real guidance on how to do so. When they looked at standardising their fitness programme, they considered various sports regimes and concluded that the perfect all over workout was to be had by playing competitive handball - so much so that they actually made it compulsory in the 1950's


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,516 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    In a slight tangent to the beatles stuff above the beatles are well known for playing rickenbacker guitars. In fact they helped make the brand famous. What you probably didn't know is why they started playing them. One story is that john lennon heard a guy called Toots Thielemans play one while the band were in hamburg in 1960. Toots is probably a name you are not familiar but you have more than likely heard him play. He was a jazz musician who played with the like of Charlie Parker and Miles Davis. He basically invented jazz harmonica playing. Probably his most widely known work is the recording of the theme for Midnight Cowboy. The plaintive harmonica is him. BUT the piece you have probably heard, and that he wrote, is the theme to Sesame Street. A piece of music familiar to nearly all and it was all by a belgian with a funny name who inspired John Lennon to start playing rickenbackers.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    To continue the NASA/Ireland connection theme, and quite fittingly, with the anniversary of the Moon Landing being this week...

    There's an estate in Coolock that was built in the early 70's that has the roads named after the 1969 moon landing.

    Eagle Park, Appollo Way, Woodville Court*, Armstrong Walk, Aldrin Walk, Tranquility Grove.

    485483.JPG


    *Apparently residents weren't happy with the names. They didn't like being nicknamed "Moonies" or "Spacers"
    As a result the Council had a plebiscite to rename the streets in 1977. Woodville Court (originally Michael Collins Rendezvous) was the only street to have it's name changed. Poor MC, the guy really couldn't catch a break!! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    In keeping with the 50th anniversary of the (alleged:D) moon landing.

    All the Apollo astronauts were very proficient gaelic handball players (No, honestly they were!)

    It stems form the fact that a lot of Irish immigrants ended up working in the military or emergency services, so it was common practice for military bases, police and fire stations to have handball courts and regular tournaments, kill the boredom and keep fit with the benefit of requiring very little space and practically no equipment.

    When the space race began NASA, required all would be astronauts to stay in peak physical fitness, but offered no real guidance on how to do so. When they looked at standardising their fitness programme, they considered various sports regimes and concluded that the perfect all over workout was to be had by playing competitive handball - so much so that they actually made it compulsory in the 1950's

    Also picked because it was non contact, yet players are always moving improving reflexes and once built the space is small and needed little to no maintenance. Could also be used very quickly for something else like storage. Handball had no traditional affiliation in the US at the time and was suitable in that way as well.

    I knew a former USAF pilot in Germany in the 90s who told me about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow



    Other musicians that died aged 27:
    Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, and Kurt Cobain ..... But thats a story for another day.
    Amy Winehouse.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states
    "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Breaking news, can headlines that end with a question mark be answered with the word no?


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Map of all the solid surfaces in our solar system superimposed on a map of the Earth...

    solar-system-surface_area.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Map of all the solid surfaces in our solar system superimposed on a map of the Earth...

    solar-system-surface_area.png
    Xkcd? (It has the font, and the attention to detail where he excludes dust particles, which is awesome)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    The dates 4/4, 6/6, 8/8, 10/10, and 12/12 all fall on the same day of the week during any one year.

    (And I had to check that immediately) ;)

    It's called Doomsday.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Xkcd? (It has the font, and the attention to detail where he excludes dust particles, which is awesome)
    Yes https://xkcd.com/1389/
    Alt text: This isn't an informational illustration; this is a thing I think we should do. First, we'll need a gigantic spool of thread. Next, we'll need some kind of... hmm, time to head to Seattle.


    https://xkcd.com/1389/large/ larger picture

    more info
    https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1389:_Surface_Area


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    Just watching The Six O Clock Show, and the insect lady (Eanna Ni Lamhna - love to hear her talk) said a difference between a frog and a toad is .... a frog hops and a toad doesn't!!

    (had a quick Google.....and its true!)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,309 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    The first world leader to create a YouTube channel was the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair who made his account in 2007.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,305 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Boris Johnson, the new British Prime Minister, was on Have I Got News For You? twice. Once as a panelist, the second time as a presenter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    branie2 wrote: »
    Boris Johnson, the new British Prime Minister was on Have I Got News For You? twice. Once as a panelist, the second time as a presenter.
    It's often credited with making him a household name.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    I wonder will he do a Deayton (coke and hoors).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭GrumpyMe


    branie2 wrote: »
    Boris Johnson, the new British Prime Minister, was on Have I Got News For You? twice. Once as a panelist, the second time as a presenter.


    Hmmm


    "I bet you didn't know..." about the other 3 appearances as host and the other one appearance as guest...
    Series 18 Episode 7 Guest
    Series 22 Episode 3 Guest
    Series 24 Episode 6 Host
    Series 26 Episode 8 Host
    Series 30 Episode 6 Host
    Series 32 Episode 9 Host
    :D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Have_I_Got_News_for_You_episodes#Series_32


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    I knew it was more than twice. As Realt Dearg Sec has mentioned, it's pretty much where he gained his notoriety.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,305 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Kim Cattrall, who appears in Sex & and the City, is from Liverpool


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    branie2 wrote: »
    Kim Cattrall, who appears in Sex & and the City, is from Liverpool

    And she was in Porkys.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    And Big trouble in Little China


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Ipso wrote: »
    I wonder will he do a Deayton (coke and hoors).

    Was Deayton a mod here?:D


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    And Big trouble in Little China

    And in Mannequin. And in "Who do you think you are?".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭mrsoundie


    New Home wrote: »
    And in Mannequin. And in "Who do you think you are?".

    Don't forget Police Academy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    mrsoundie wrote: »
    New Home wrote: »
    And in Mannequin. And in "Who do you think you are?".

    Don't forget Police Academy.

    I was trying to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    New Home wrote: »
    And in Mannequin. And in "Who do you think you are?".

    And star trek VI - the undiscovered country


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The mass popularity of red lipstick dates back to the early days of motion pictures when silent movies shot in grainy black and white film meant that facial features had to be exaggerated to make them more easily discernible in that monochrome landscape. The resulting pale white face with dark eyes and lips floating in the middle was emulated in the movie posters, and a fashion for pale powered skin and red lips followed suit.

    da03983814282c585fddf9c52bfb4e9e.jpg

    The company that produced film make up, Coty, was founded by a Mr Maksymilian Faktorowicz, a Polish beautician who emigrated to the US and began a career as a make up artist in the movies. He later changed his name to one that rolls off the tongue a little easier, and so Max Factor became the name of his new line after he realized the demand for affordable mass produced makeup that the movies had prompted in the public. Max sold make up inspired by the screen heroines of the time, aided by celebrity endorsement. The two best selling Max Factor make-up products were dark red lipstick and Pan Stik foundation, both used on silent movie sets in the early days of cinema and still sold today.

    During WW2 makeup became more creative, but red lipstick had lost none of it's popularity. When supplies of silk for stockings was diverted to the making of parachues, women used gravy browning as a sort of fake tan stocking, and charcoal pencil was drawn in a line up the back of the leg to emulate the seamed stockings sold at the time (before nylon). Likewise flour was used as powder, charcoal for eyeshadow, and for lipstick, cochineal colouring usually used in baking was used to stain the lips and was topped off with wax or petroleum jelly to finish the look. Women were encouraged to look their glamorous best as a morale boosting exercise, and in a world of little soap or shampoo there were at least rations of lipstick - though not enough. It was a hot ticket black market item.

    Red lipsticks popularity was further boosted when Elizabeth Arden was asked to design and provide makeup, especially lipstick, to the American Marine Corps Womens Reserve. She came up with three shades of red lipstick to suit the coloring of most women and to highlight the uniform, and the posters did nothing to hurt sales to the civilian market.

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    The betwitching properties of lipstick are such that studies show that men will estimate a woman as being more attractive with it on than without. Waitresses are tipped more, and an Italian study shows that women students who wear makeup have higher self esteem and gain higher grades, (though rather than makeup having magical cognitive enhancement abilities, it's probably innate self esteem that makes them invest the time in themselves to begin with*).

    It's been well demonstrated that women are seen as most attractive (to both men and to other women) during the fertile period of the menstrual cycle, and it's around ovulation that the shift in the balance of hormones increases vascular flow, making skin more sensitive and the genitals more responsive to arousal. It also has the effect of making you look more robustly healthy, making your skin pinker and your lips redder - a signal to potential mates that other areas of the body are feeling a little flushed and sensitive to the touch, too. Lipstick either invents or enhances this same signal, the secret to it's success.





    *Because they're worth it.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    And his brother was a Prohibition era gangster with strong connections with the Mafia.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    New Home wrote: »
    And his brother was a Prohibition era gangster with strong connections with the Mafia.

    Oh, didn't know that. As if his life wasn't interesting enough!

    I remember reading that when the Allies liberated Auschwitz, the first thing that those poor ragged and starving women prisoners asked for - was not food or clothing, but lipstick. It's interesting to consider if there was perhaps some basic compulsion to reclaim their femininity, having been robbed of their identity.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    IIRC, Max used his brother's "business partners" to win lucrative contracts with various Hollywood film studios.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    New Home wrote: »
    IIRC, Max used his brother's "business partners" to win lucrative contracts with various Hollywood film studios.

    Gosh, it's less and less an admirable rags to riches story of a poor immigrant who became a household name, and more of an intimidation and strong arm situation.

    How very disappointing. :(


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Candie wrote: »
    The betwitching properties of lipstick are such that studies show that men will estimate a woman as being more attractive with it on than without. Waitresses are tipped more, and an Italian study shows that women students who wear makeup have higher self esteem and gain higher grades, (though rather than makeup having magical cognitive enhancement abilities, it's probably innate self esteem that makes them invest the time in themselves to begin with*).

    And just to be a total cynic, I'd say it was also down to the fact that male Italian teachers may have felt compelled to give prettier girls higher marks. :/


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  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    New Home wrote: »
    And just to be a total cynic, I'd say it was also down to the fact that male Italian teachers may have felt compelled to give prettier girls higher marks. :/

    I think it was a Harvard study that came to similar conclusions, not that they'd be any more immune to pretty girls. Good looking people are always given more credit than the plain.


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