And the winner of dreamer of the year is...

unkel · 09-11-2020 1:09am #1

Thought I'd start a new thread, same title as in motors. Light hearted, hopefully good for a few laughs.

I'll get the ball rolling

Rolex Explorer II polar, ref 16570. No box, no papers, no service history. No bracelet :eek:

Seller is adamant he needs €5500, not a cent less

Linky

893bet · 09-11-2020 7:32am

I don’t think he is that much of a dreamer. Add 1k onto the price for box and papers missing. And even generously add 800 for a replacement bracelet.

Can you find a load of “Swiss only” dials Polars available for 7.3k anywhere?

I think dreamer of the year works better from the opposite side, especially on adverts where everyone wants it for nothing.

Case in point is also that add where he is offered 2.5k.

unkel · 09-11-2020 10:58am

Agreed that person making a €2.5k offer is a chancer / idiot / time waster with 50% bad feed back. Far too many of those types on adverts.ie unfortunately

The value of the watch funnily enough is right bang in the middle of bid and ask at €4k max. I can't see anyone offering his asking price, but you never know. Plenty of fools and their money around

893bet · 09-11-2020 11:33am

unkel wrote: »

Agreed that person making a €2.5k offer is a chancer / idiot / time waster with 50% bad feed back. Far too many of those types on adverts.ie unfortunately

The value of the watch funnily enough is right bang in the middle of bid and ask at €4k max. I can't see anyone offering his asking price, but you never know. Plenty of fools and their money around

If you think that a Polar explorer, with a “rare” dial ( this is something collectors want apparently) is only worth 4k then it is you who is the dreamer :-) .

For 1500 quid or so this watch could have a bracelet added, box added and serviced by Rolex to get papers.

Find a Polar for sale at 7k with this dial? I don’t think they are there.....

Find one for 4k.......

unkel · 09-11-2020 12:37pm

I ran it by someone in the trade. Who agreed with my price. I guess the two of us will have to agree to disagree with you and the seller about who are the dreamers here

893bet · 09-11-2020 12:50pm

Lol

The trade price is different to the private selling price. Sure 4k maybe what a dealer pays and then advertises for 6k. Not really relevant. Did you sell your milgauss to HM for trade price?

Rather than rely on one person in the “trade” I do a search and see with my eyes what the watch is selling for.

Link to me one of these that is advertised or has sold in the EU for less than 7k with this dial. You will struggle to find one.

Cienciano · 09-11-2020 12:58pm

Better be careful that none of my watches appear here! As mentioned, problem with Adverts is lowball offers so people tend to put in higher asking prices.

Fitz II · 09-11-2020 1:14pm

That Explorer is bad value as a collectors watch, its a head only and can never be made "right" however I am sure as a watch its grand. I suppose if your a buyer with a eye on residuals the value proposition is poor, if you just want the watch and resale be damned it not so bad. Personally I would want the watch on a bracelet and a complete one, from the correct period can be a pricey affair.

You can buy a good watch for 7k or a bad one for 5k and spend 2k making it a good watch. At the end of the day you are still 7k down

unkel · 09-11-2020 1:29pm

That's it. Not a collectible watch at all because of the missing bracelet. Worth €4k tops. Silly to compare it to a complete watch. I wouldn't offer much more than €3.5k to give myself a few hundred quid margin for the likely case I would sell it on at some point, so I wouldn't lose too much on it.

893bet · 09-11-2020 1:33pm

Absolutely. I never* buy a watch unless it’s full set. But it not being a full set does not mean the watch is going to be given away for less than its value.

*except for the ALS I bought as a partial set with no box and a missing manual.

unkel wrote: »

That's it. Not a collectible watch at all because of the missing bracelet. Worth €4k tops. Silly to compare it to a complete watch.

He hasn’t agreed with you.

You are comparing it to a full set watch by removing 40 percent of its value. It is very collectible. Very easy add a bracelet. This has a rare dial (how rare I have no idea). You cant add the dial afterwards.

Where are the links to all these 4 k or 5k or 6k explorers that are changing hands?

You can mentally assign a 4k value to it all you want. Doesn’t make it a reality.

blue5000 · 09-11-2020 3:05pm

Some Japanese sellers are very fond of their Seiko SKX 007 watches:rolleyes:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-SKX007J1-Japan-21-Jewels-Black-Boy-Automatic-Mens-Watch-Authentic-Working/224186233565?epid=23031191907&hash=item34328a72dd:g:HyQAAOSwf8RfftvG

unkel · 09-11-2020 3:33pm

893bet wrote: »

You can mentally assign a 4k value to it all you want. Doesn’t make it a reality.

I haven't seen an awful lot of buyers offering him €5.5k for it, have you?

If you don't mind I'll take the opinion of a watch dealer over yours...

893bet · 09-11-2020 3:36pm

unkel wrote: »

I haven't seen an awful lot of buyers offering him €5.5k for it, have you?

If you don't mind I'll take the opinion of a watch dealer over yours...

Is Ireland and adverts a good representative of the global market??

Not a single link provided.

Thirdfox · 09-11-2020 5:31pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Some Japanese sellers are very fond of their Seiko SKX 007 watches:rolleyes:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-SKX007J1-Japan-21-Jewels-Black-Boy-Automatic-Mens-Watch-Authentic-Working/224186233565?epid=23031191907&hash=item34328a72dd:g:HyQAAOSwf8RfftvG

Generally (stereotypes are there to be broken) - Japanese sellers are amazing (in terms of item preservation and description).

i.e. if they say something is 9/10 - that would mean that it probably gets "mint" or 10/10 in the English speaking world. If there is a noticeable scratch on a camera lens body (so cosmetic only) for example they might mark it 6/10 - where it would be totally acceptable for a 8/10 in Ireland/UK/US.

The Japanese - a great bunch of lads

Nothing to do with this ad

- but just some info in case people buy from Japanese ebay sellers/off Rakuten etc.

Deep Thought · 09-11-2020 6:15pm

so are we saying its an ok price,and to bring it to where people want it to be would cost an extra K2.5 and the it would be worth the 7.5 asked for with a full set.

If you weren't concerned with having full set and can acquire the extras later, then its not bad ?

893bet · 09-11-2020 6:26pm

Deep Thought wrote: »

so are we saying its an ok price,and to bring it to where people want it to be would cost an extra K2.5 and the it would be worth the 7.5 asked for with a full set.

If you weren't concerned with having full set and can acquire the extras later, then its not bad ?

Cliffs

My position is that 5.5k seems about right for a loose watch with the rare dial.

Unkel think he is a dreamer and suggests 3.5 as he spoke to some one “in the trade”....fairly easy guess who &#55357;&#56832;

Unkel can’t provide links to show all these polar explorers changing hands at 4k or 5k.

Also some skx are expensive in Japan.

Fitz II · 09-11-2020 6:46pm

Deep Thought wrote: »

so are we saying its an ok price,and to bring it to where people want it to be would cost an extra K2.5 and the it would be worth the 7.5 asked for with a full set.

If you weren't concerned with having full set and can acquire the extras later, then its not bad ?

Missing box and papers are generally overplayed, but a missing bracelet is a worry. Its very difficult gent a genuine one for any sort of reasonable money, Rolex dont sell loose bracelets. Any one you do get may not be right for the watch.

Dealer prices are misleading too, to be fair. If the guy was willing to take dealer prices he would sell it to a dealer, much easier than dealing with mouth breathers on adverts. A dealer offered me 5k on a milgauss today, a ridiculous low price. But thats their right, and I am sure they get a few with these low balls, or those that have to sell quick.

You can offer anything you want, and as a seller ask anything you want. The value of the watch will come down to a combination of the need of the seller to sell, how much he values the watch at, and how much the buyer will give and how much they want the watch.

At the end of the day, the seller is the one with the Rolex, and he would rather keep it than have 4 grand. Personally I wouldn't pay a grand for it, too dodgy, but 5500 is not looney prices for what it is.

Deep Thought · 09-11-2020 9:28pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Missing box and papers are generally overplayed, but a missing bracelet is a worry. Its very difficult gent a genuine one for any sort of reasonable money, Rolex dont sell loose bracelets. Any one you do get may not be right for the watch.

Dealer prices are misleading too, to be fair. If the guy was willing to take dealer prices he would sell it to a dealer, much easier than dealing with mouth breathers on adverts. A dealer offered me 5k on a milgauss today, a ridiculous low price. But thats their right, and I am sure they get a few with these low balls, or those that have to sell quick.

You can offer anything you want, and as a seller ask anything you want. The value of the watch will come down to a combination of the need of the seller to sell, how much he values the watch at, and how much the buyer will give and how much they want the watch.

At the end of the day, the seller is the one with the Rolex, and he would rather keep it than have 4 grand. Personally I wouldn't pay a grand for it, too dodgy, but 5500 is not looney prices for what it is.

I wouldn’t be interested as am looking at Spitfire Chrono or Mark II Speedmaster racing, but it’s great to get and insight

tjhook · 14-11-2020 6:06pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't pay a grand for it, too dodgy, but 5500 is not looney prices for what it is.

Out of interest, too dodgy as in questionable chain of ownership, or condition of the watch internally? Or something else?

Fitz II · 14-11-2020 6:23pm

Its a watch that came with a bracelet the question is how did it loose it? It certainly hints at one careless owner, or somebody sold the bracelet off. New braclet I have sourced on ebay is 1300 euro. Watch will need a service for certain, no way a "head only" watch like this has had a proper service in a while. There is another grand gone to rolex. Worst of all you could send it to Rolex for service and they keep it cause its stolen. That is one reason the braclet is gone, cause it was nicked on a strap. Current owner might not even know, but the first fool to service the watch with Rolex will get stung.

I dont care about box and papers that much in general, but when the watch is not complete I really worry, its not vintage so how did that happen?

unkel · 14-11-2020 6:30pm

Or of course it was plain & simply overpriced

It's withdrawn now...

893bet · 14-11-2020 7:15pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Its a watch that came with a bracelet the question is how did it loose it? It certainly hints at one careless owner, or somebody sold the bracelet off. New braclet I have sourced on ebay is 1300 euro. Watch will need a service for certain, no way a "head only" watch like this has had a proper service in a while. There is another grand gone to rolex. Worst of all you could send it to Rolex for service and they keep it cause its stolen. That is one reason the braclet is gone, cause it was nicked on a strap. Current owner might not even know, but the first fool to service the watch with Rolex will get stung.

I dont care about box and papers that much in general, but when the watch is not complete I really worry, its not vintage so how did that happen?

I would agree with that definitely for a modern watch. I can’t understand how many have no box or papers. How are people so careless.

Either way the explorer 2 is prob the least loved Rolex of the Range for some reason. The standard ones pop up on TZ regularly for around 4.5k sterling I think.

The poor mans Rolex so to speak.

Fitz II · 14-11-2020 7:21pm

I am a big fan of the no papers watch...they are cheaper. Papers are lost for a few genuine reasons. Papers dont certify a watch, easy to fake papers. But they do attest to a careful ownership life.

1. People are rich and simply dont care about that crap.
2. They sell a watch while on holidays or away from home and never send the papers.
3. The pawn a watch
4. Loose a watch gambling.
5. Flip before the AD releases the papers.

With the explorer or a lot of rolex, the bracelet is a key part of the watch. Why is gone, or why a new one was not sourced is sus.

893bet · 14-11-2020 7:28pm

Some people sell bracelets as it’s a keeper......(or at least I did).

I did it with my planet ocean. I am never selling the watch. I wear it on nato and rubber. Don’t need it.

A few years later.....hmmmm Pity I sold that bracelet now I am trying to sell it....

I would usually look to buy a full set, including bracelet (if they have one even though I prob won’t use it) just as it’s easily resell. While partial sets are cheaper. The market is then smaller.

banie01 · 15-11-2020 4:16pm

893bet wrote: »

The poor mans Rolex so to speak.

Balls!
Of their GMT range, it's the one I really like.
Both polar and black just really catch my eye even with their weird bezel

Suppose it frames me as a classless oik then :pac:
Can't say it's a wrong view either

There is a Grand Seiko lookalike in the watch comp that caught my eye earlier as an even cheaper option.

unkel · 15-11-2020 4:39pm

893bet wrote: »

The poor mans Rolex so to speak.

I'm liking that moniker :cool:

Did a bit of research and that "SWISS" only is nothing special or collectable imho. It's just a brief period around 1999 after Rolex stopped using radioactive tritium for the lume and before they started using superluminova

unkel · 15-11-2020 4:44pm

OmegaGene wrote: »

ouch, how to kill a watch for people in a few words lol

Does the opposite for me

My last car was called a poor man's Tesla. I liked that a lot too.

unkel · 15-11-2020 5:03pm

It wasn't actually a Tesla, it was a Hyundai

893bet · 15-11-2020 5:27pm

OmegaGene wrote: »

ouch, how to kill a watch for people in a few words lol

I didn’t mean it quite like that. But it seems unloved and a cheap way to get Rolex on the dial for a sports watch if that was one is after. A Rolex in the sports range that is readily available below retail on the second market.....telling in one way. The Milgauss was like that a little till recent years but seems to have picked up a lot.

See two below on tz recently

5150 sterling full set plus recent service.

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?452060-FT-Rolex-Explorer-16570-polar-B-amp-P-and-recent-Rolex-service&highlight=Polar+explorer

5k full set and just serviced.

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?468233-SOLD-Rolex-Explorer-II-(-quot-Polar-quot-Ref-16570)-Complete-with-Service-Warranty&highlight=Polar+explorer

The Swiss only dial obvious adds value (for a certain group of people who value they kind of thing). No idea how much.

A recently serviced watch is ideal. Means the watch is mint as condition is very important in a 15-20 year old watch and also gives huge security of providence. You can guarantee it wasn’t stolen prior to the service point at least. Buy the seller is great .....but the seller may not know that 3 sellers ago it was hot as ****.

unkel wrote: »

I'm liking that moniker :cool:

Did a bit of research and that "SWISS" only is nothing special or collectable imho. It's just a brief period around 1999 after Rolex stopped using radioactive tritium for the lume and before they started using superluminova

I didn’t really look bar a minute on chrono24 which shows their asking price typically higher. Short production period seem seem to be valued. I think Rolex have made so many micro changes to models with slight variations of dials, bezels font, date wheel font, different cards, hang tags etc means they are prob diluted.

unkel · 18-11-2020 9:08pm

Looks like I might be getting a poor man's Rolex tomorrow. SWISS only and all

893bet · 18-11-2020 9:18pm

Deep in level 4.

Lorddrakul · 19-11-2020 1:15pm

I think somewhere in my watch fancying habit formative years, I must have had a Rolex vaccination.

There's not a single one that I actually lust after.

I'm no denigrating at all, they just do nowt for me.

unkel · 19-11-2020 4:53pm

Lorddrakul wrote: »

I think somewhere in my watch fancying habit formative years, I must have had a Rolex vaccination.

There's not a single one that I actually lust after.

I'm no denigrating at all, they just do nowt for me.

I was the same up to about 3-4 years ago. Rolex did nothing for me. Omega was where it was at and the Seamaster in particular. And now look at me

Your time will come, oh Lord, you'll see

run_Forrest_run · 19-11-2020 10:23pm

I'm definitely at the Seamaster stage (300m) when only a few months ago I hated those skeleton hands, now I couldn't imagine the watch without them. I'm not madly into the Rolex stuff however I wouldn't say no to a Daytona or an Explorer Oyster 39mm

Fitz II · 19-11-2020 10:44pm

I find as I progress as a collector my taste changes and I wax and wane. I have eaten my words more than once.

Nobody likes Rolex, but then you see one you can get, and then you get it, and then you love it, and then you sell it, and then you have 5 of the ****ers.

Wibbs · 19-11-2020 11:14pm

Fitz II wrote: »

I find as I progress as a collector my taste changes and I wax and wane. I have eaten my words more than once.

Words have provided quite the percentage of my staple diet for many a year F.

Nobody likes Rolex, but then you see one you can get, and then you get it, and then you love it, and then you sell it, and then you have 5 of the ****ers.

I've done that with trench watches, mil watches, early quartz/electronic, digitals, Longines, Soviet watches, French watches, Seiko, even a foray into early Rolex Oysters in the 90's. Had a brief Swatch phase too, but we won't talk about that. So I really can't talk*. And I've even kinda had my Rolex moment. :eek::D So I'm immunised. Until the next bug hits me. And that's just old watches...

*I'd reckon I've owned at least 100 odd watches in my time.

dinorebel · 20-11-2020 1:15am

Wibbs wrote: »

Words have provided quite the percentage of my staple diet for many a year F.
I've done that with trench watches, mil watches, early quartz/electronic, digitals, Longines, Soviet watches, French watches, Seiko, even a foray into early Rolex Oysters in the 90's. Had a brief Swatch phase too, but we won't talk about that. So I really can't talk*. And I've even kinda had my Rolex moment. :eek::D So I'm immunised. Until the next bug hits me. And that's just old watches...

*I'd reckon I've owned at least 100 odd watches in my time.

Having seen some of your collection is it

100 odd watches or 100 odd watches?

Wibbs · 20-11-2020 9:18am

Oh definitely the latter D.

893bet · 20-11-2020 10:56am

Fitz II wrote: »

I find as I progress as a collector my taste changes and I wax and wane. I have eaten my words more than once.

Nobody likes Rolex, but then you see one you can get, and then you get it, and then you love it, and then you sell it, and then you have 5 of the ****ers.

I think also sometimes you think you are supposed to like something as everyone else does (e.g the speedmaster or the ND sub both of which do very little for me).

I also have no interest in Rolex for a large part (bar a ceramic Daytona &#55357;&#56833; or a a few of the white gold Daytona on Oyster flex), however this is largely driven by not having access to them at RRP and not having the desire to pay the grey prices rather than me having unique taste. If available at RRP I would def have tried a hulk, Pepsi and Daytona of some sort (but probably not kept). But they are not available so I have no real interest in playing the game, I do enjoy hurling on the Rolex ditch though a little.

Taste def change. Looking closely at Rose gold lately. Something I would not have dreamed of 3 years ago.

unkel wrote: »

I was the same up to about 3-4 years ago. Rolex did nothing for me. Omega was where it was at and the Seamaster in particular. And now look at me .php?attachmentid=533443&stc=1&d=1605801174[/IMG]

The expl2 will be a nice stepping stone to the YM blue or what not. Watches seem “cheaper” with a trade in mentally at least I.e. “all I have to do is add 3k and my watch” vs shelling out 9k straight.

dakar · 20-11-2020 1:34pm

I can’t decide if I’m immune or not.

I do fancy a Milgauss. But really I like the CERN association more than the watch. I don’t work in high magnetic fields. Maybe I should invest in a MRI machine for work, but a €1.5m machine to justify a watch is a touch excessive

What I think would irritate me most about any Rolex is the ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX... around the rehaut, it really bugs me. Irrational maybe, but it might be a niggle too far.

unkel · 20-11-2020 1:43pm

dakar wrote: »

What I think would irritate me most about any Rolex is the ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX... around the rehaut, it really bugs me. Irrational maybe, but it might be a niggle too far.

None of that on my watch

hitemfrank · 20-11-2020 1:48pm

The Rolex around the rehaut is quite subtle in reality.

It's not really noticeable to me on my Milgauss unless I move the watch to catch the light in a certain way.

dakar · 20-11-2020 1:59pm

Feckin enablers...

unkel · 20-11-2020 2:16pm

dakar wrote: »

Feckin enablers...

They're the worst. I blame them for bringing me into fold

893bet · 20-11-2020 2:35pm

dakar wrote: »

Feckin enablers...

We just want someone else to take the depreciation hit.

Fitz II · 20-11-2020 3:53pm

hitemfrank wrote: »

The Rolex around the rehaut is quite subtle in reality.

It's not really noticeable to me on my Milgauss unless I move the watch to catch the light in a certain way.

The Serial number is there too, so if you look at any photo if you cant see the serial number you cannot see the Rehaut. Its actually a very good feature, as Rolex ensure that the letter are aligned the same to the dial on every watch. You can spot a snide often because the X doesnt align with the 1 position and the likes. Also its a area that is easy to loupe to check the lettering is crisp and defined. Laser engraving the inside of a curved bit of metal is difficult and the clone factories get this wrong a lot.

I have never really noticed it. But if it bothers you a lot, there are the "non engraved" versions usually 2000 - 2005 Rolex. Royal Oak has a mirror polished one that really catches the light its a nice feature

BTW the Milgauss is only 1000 gauss, wouldnt survive a MRI, Omega watches with the sillicone hairsprings and newer rolex movements are totally amagnetic and immune....IWC Ingenieur is another option or Omega Railmaster...buts lets me honest you want the Rolex

https://millenarywatches.com/rolex-engraved-rehaut/

unkel · 20-11-2020 4:08pm

893bet wrote: »

We just want someone else to take the depreciation hit.

That's Omega you're talking about. No depreciation on Rolex. Damn, am I enabling again now? I know it's no excuse but in my defense I was enabled in the past myself

njburke · 25-11-2020 11:23pm

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372839654835
£429 for a pair of pressed steel endlinks, genuine rolex. There are two, but chances are the buyer only lost one.

Edit, just saw another pair for a GMT, €900.

No wonder that explorer lost its bracelet.

unkel · 25-11-2020 11:54pm

And no wonder why that Rolex is worth nowhere near the "no offers" asking price of €5.5k

unkel · 30-11-2020 1:01am

And it's back! New asking price €5,200 - price non-negotiable :rolleyes: Still only a €4k watch, seller still dreaming...

Linky

Fitz II · 30-11-2020 10:15am

https://www.adverts.ie/vintage/omega-speedmaster-day-date/22299111
Underpants + ? = Profit

And the winner of dreamer of the year is...

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