Stolen guns recovered
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Kevin Irving wrote: »While a stolen car might be used in a murder, it's equally likely to be broken down for parts and shipped abroad. The same cannot reasonably be said for a stolen firearm.
In any case, if your car is deemed to be at high risk of being stolen, you pay higher insurance. If it actually is stolen, your insurance will go up. If it continues to happen, you will be denied insurance.
Even following conditions for storage down to the letter, they may still be a soft target for criminals. IMO, someone's entitlement to own a firearm unfortunately comes secondary to the risk of it being stolen. Should a licence be withdrawn after the second theft, the third?
A question, because I don't know. Are the majority of stolen firearms taken during a "normal" burglary, or specifically targeted and cut from a safe?
If punishment dished out matched the crime, the crims would not put their hands on a gun in order steal it. Like they dont rob these guns in order to take part in the Olympics0 -
Well just like anything else in life, some people wouldn't be as responsible or careful as others. As someone else has said, it should be decided on a case by case basis.
Which leads to another question. How thorough would Gardai be after a firearms theft? Would the owner be interviewed and the premises properly examined, or do they get treated like any other break in?
From what I rememberd of it,as I was in London when it happened in 88,and my parents were at home,but had gone out for the night.They responded 100% quicker to their call when it was mentioned that a firearm was stolen:rolleyes:
Apart from that it was treated as a normal break in,the fukers made off with some of my mums jewelly and the VCR!!:p And everyone was happy they didnt get the other four guns in the house."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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Apologies for my delayed response!So a victim of crime, the chap who has his private property (not a crime in itself....yet) stolen, even though he has taken reasonable and responsible precautions with his security is the one penalised ?
Doesn't sound in the least bit fair to me. If he as i said earlier had chucked the gun under the bed or behind the door in the kitchen, fair enough, he did not take precautions.
Where does it all end though ? You cannot own a nice telly, hi-fi, shed full of tools because anto scoby round the corner has velcro fingers ?
I don't think it's fair in the slightest, no. I'm moreso interested in what, if any repercussions are actually implemented in the case of careless owners. I completely understand why someone would want to, or sadly even feel they needed to keep their gun to hand at all time. I would wager that unlocked guns are a common sight around the country.By saying the person should not have a firearm again is akin to making the person who is the victim of a/the crime responsible for the actions for the criminal.
Not necessarily, but if I leave my car running while I run into the shop, it get stolen and knocks someone down, I do bear some level of responsibility for that outcome.In case you are not aware An Gardaí inspect people's home and security measures before granting a firearms license (this is in addition to the 9 page, 3 month, medical waiver, and background check each applicant goes through). As such An Gardaí signed off on the security measures as being adequate. So if An Gardaí are satisfied then how can anyone question the level of security?
Fair enough, can't really argue with that. Out of interest, is this purely factual based criteria, or would a subjective view of someones address or education come into it too?You cannot stop a criminal with determination. Look at the ATM robberies, they stole diggers and excavators and pulled the walls out. Point being short of having a moat and sharks with fricking lasers on their heads nothing is theft proof.
Of course, nothing is theft proof. Probably less of an issue these days, but in the past I would have considered banks as having a particular responsibility to prevent cash getting into the hands of paramilitaries.You don't understand the firearms laws in this country. That in itself is a breach of the firearms Act so wouldn't happen and if it were the case then the firearm owner has no excuse and would have the firearm license revoked.
I've seen it, only once mind, but I was taken aback to see a shotgun in the hallway by the front door.Possibly and again a knowledge of the firearm acts and mindset of AGS would tell you the would ask for a higher level of security which can include but is not limited to full monitored house alarm with GSM backup, separate safes for different parts of the same gun (so its not ll stored together), hidden safes with key components, etc, etc.
That's the kind of info I'm interested in. You can't do much more than splitting parts into hidden safes. I agree that anything beyond that would be extremely difficult to implement.
It does remind me of being in someone's house a few years ago when they saw a huge rat in the garden. By the time they had opened two safes and found other bits hidden very well around the house, it was long gone.Going by your line of thinking at some point the bank should not have any money as it cannot be trusted not ot be robbed again.Nor do you need a license to own a gun. You do need a license to use BOTH.Have you data to support that assertion?
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So there are 65 more cars than firearms stolen and AGs cannot say what becomes of the firearms, but you say they are "by orders of magnitude" used more in crime.
I don't have data no, but I can imagine lots of reasons to steal a car, most of them monetary, scamming people, some of them of course for violent crime. I would image most genuine gun owners are far more savvy when it comes to buying than second hand car buyers.If someone is negligent as a firearm owner they will be punished by fines, jail, both and loss of licenses/firearms.
If they are the victim of a crime they should be treated as a victim and as AGS have said their security was sufficient they are not to be held accountable for the actions of criminals.
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It would seem to me, that a few simple steps like separating and hiding parts, etc make stealing a working next to impossible, and should be common practice. I'd just like to think that most conscientious owners would set that minimum bar for themselves and see anything less as careless.Hi,
Do you have a licenced firearm, or have direct experience of having had a licenced firearm stolen, perhaps ?
I'm starting to wonder if your just a social media troll, tbh :-)
I don't own one, but does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
I've had a licenced firearm pointed at me on more than one occasion in Ireland, if that counts for anything. I've also rented them in the US with astonishing ease and blasé attitude from the shop.I don't think this is trolling. I think the chap has some questions and opinions and he is entitled to ask them here, as anyone is.
Our responsibility is to answer those questions and where possible educate people. If they take that information on board then all the better, if not then that is their choice.
I'm genuinely not trying to be inflammatory, and thank you for your detailed reply. Given our current issues with gangland crime, and the incident that prompted the OP to start the thread, it's reassuring to know that most people are responsible, and that measures can be taken against careless owners.deerhunter1 wrote: »What a stupid immature comment:mad:
How so? You do realise that the entire insurance industry is based the principle of calculating risk, based on previous experience.0 -
Kevin Irving wrote: »Apologies for my delayed response!
Not necessarily, but if I leave my car running while I run into the shop, it get stolen and knocks someone down, I do bear some level of responsibility for that outcome.
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If your car is stolen when you park in a dodgy part of town, should you be banned from owning a car or only if the car is running?0 -
Can we leave the car chat for the motors thread? It's not a fair comparison.0
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Kevin Irving wrote: »
I've had a licenced firearm pointed at me on more than one occasion in Ireland, if that counts for anything.
This isn't a common occurrence here in Ireland so forgive me for being sceptical.
Care to detail the circumstances as I've been around guns for nearly 50 years and never had a legally held gun pointed at me?0 -
BattleCorp wrote: »This isn't a common occurrence here in Ireland so forgive me for being sceptical.
Care to detail the circumstances as I've been around guns for nearly 50 years and never had a legally held gun pointed at me?
There used to be a cranky farmer close to where the Arc bar is at the Liffey Valley shopping centre. This would have been over 30 years ago. He regularly chased kids out of his orchard including myself, while pointing a shotgun at us.0 -
Okay, this turned out longer than i'd like so i split it for easier reading.Kevin Irving wrote: »I'm moreso interested in what, if any repercussions are actually implemented in the case of careless owners.I completely understand why someone would want to, or sadly even feel they needed to keep their gun to hand at all time.I would wager that unlocked guns are a common sight around the country.Not necessarily, but if I leave my car running while I run into the shop, it get stolen and knocks someone down, I do bear some level of responsibility for that outcome.
This is what you are asking as your analogy suggests carelessness which is itself already an offence as a firearm owner, and again not germane to the thread topic.Fair enough, can't really argue with that. Out of interest, is this purely factual based criteria, or would a subjective view of someones address or education come into it too?Of course, nothing is theft proof. Of course, nothing is theft proof. Probably less of an issue these days, but in the past I would have considered banks as having a particular responsibility to prevent cash getting into the hands of paramilitaries.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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I've seen it, only once mind, but I was taken aback to see a shotgun in the hallway by the front door.That's the kind of info I'm interested in. You can't do much more than splitting parts into hidden safes. I agree that anything beyond that would be extremely difficult to implement.Again less of an issue nowadays with less cash in use, but cash levels would be reduced to the point of inconvenience to many customers in isolated branches were robberies have happened.I didn't know that at all, I had always thought a license was a prerequisite to ownership.
Ownership is not linked to authorisation. It can be my property i simply cannot use it. So i can own as many guns as i like but to use them i must get a license from An Gardaí BEFORE i take ownership/possession of the firearm. To keep to the, somewhat tired, analogy of the car going, you can buy as many cars as you like, but try driving one without a license, tax, insurance, NCT, etc.I don't have data no, .............
We had a brilliant press clippings thread that ran for years until it fell foul of the Copyright SI at which point it had to be deleted. It had hundreds/thousands of posts about such articles over the years.I'd just like to think that most conscientious owners would set that minimum bar for themselves and see anything less as careless.I don't own one, but does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?I've had a licenced firearm pointed at me on more than one occasion in Ireland, if that counts for anything.I've also rented them in the US with astonishing ease and blasé attitude from the shop.
We have on 2nd amendment, no right to firearms, no right to keep and bear arms, and no right to buy or use a gun for self defence.I'm genuinely not trying to be inflammatory, and thank you for your detailed reply. Given our current issues with gangland crime, and the incident that prompted the OP to start the thread, it's reassuring to know that most people are responsible, and that measures can be taken against careless owners.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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Kevin Irving wrote: »
I've seen it, only once mind, but I was taken aback to see a shotgun in the hallway by the front door.
I didn't know that at all, I had always thought a license was a prerequisite to ownership.
I don't own one, but does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
I've had a licenced firearm pointed at me on more than one occasion in Ireland, if that counts for anything. I've also rented them in the US with astonishing ease and blasé attitude from the shop.
I'm genuinely not trying to be inflammatory, and thank you for your detailed reply. Given our current issues with gangland crime, and the incident that prompted the OP to start the thread, it's reassuring to know that most people are responsible, and that measures can be taken against careless owners.
Farmers or owners of one shotgun got a pass with regards to owning a safe. If you have an issue with that, don't take it up here, head to the farming forum as it was the IFA who got that through.
You can own a gun, it does not mean you can actually have the gun or use the gun. If i walk into a dealers, choose a gun and pay for it, its mine. It does not mean i can walk out of the shop with it.
As for having an opinion, get involved with shooting sports here and you'll soon understand why people are so defensive, we are under constant pressure from idiot politicians and others who actually don't know the first thing about firearms or shooting.
Having a firearm pointed at you ? Why, what were you doing ? Illegal to do in any case.
Please don't bring America into it, you might as well be talking about the far side of Neptune, no comparasson to ireland at all.
The folks in Gangland/terrorist Ireland are not interested in nearly everything we own, double barrel shotguns and .22 rifles are of next to no interest in them, especially when they can buy a Glock and ammo for less than 1k.0 -
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Why not , you dont have a right to use/have them , they are both dangerous , and both used in crimes after being stolen.
If your car is stolen , should you be allowed to own one again?
If your house is broken into and your knives are stolen and used to stab someone, would you be barred from having more knives in your house?0 -
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f , especially when they can buy a Glock and ammo for less than 1k.
That must be at Gussies "pre arrest closing down sale!"" Everything must go as I need bail money sale!!"There is no way you would buy any type of gun for less than 2 grand on the black market!And more so if it is a clean" new in the grease "gun.
Black market means it is hard to get and is being sold at inflated prices because you need it.We can see this in action today with the price gouging for hand sanitizer.Imagine the govt made its sale illegal on the public market,but people still want it and someone was willing to supply it under the counter or down the back alley.They can charge what they want as it is an illegal product with a limited supply."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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Grizzly 45 wrote: »That must be at Gussies "pre arrest closing down sale!"" Everything must go as I need bail money sale!!"There is no way you would buy any type of gun for less than 2 grand on the black market!And more so if it is a clean" new in the grease "gun.
Black market means it is hard to get and is being sold at inflated prices because you need it.We can see this in action today with the price gouging for hand sanitizer.Imagine the govt made its sale illegal on the public market,but people still want it and someone was willing to supply it under the counter or down the back alley.They can charge what they want as it is an illegal product with a limited supply.
My info might be a bit out of date, but if you want one you can get one. Like drugs, illegal but available on every street corner in the land.0 -
Kevin Irving wrote: »I'd hope so. If the criminals were/are aware of their location, and managed to successfully steal them once, there's a high likelihood it could happen again.
If take it that should happen to everyone who’s car was stolen as well ?0 -
BattleCorp wrote: »This isn't a common occurrence here in Ireland so forgive me for being sceptical.
Care to detail the circumstances as I've been around guns for nearly 50 years and never had a legally held gun pointed at me?
The first was when I was a kid, sleepwalking and the second was a farmer when I was a teenager.Different topic and not germane to this thread. The topic of stolen guns is completely different to people being "careless" with them which carries its own set of restrictions (under law) and punishments for anyone found to have committed such an offence.
I think they’re very much related. Opportunistic crime thrives on carelessness.You don't understand the gun laws in Ireland. Its illegal to not have your firearm(s) stored securely when not in use and this security is checked by AGS before you get your firearm (each one) and regularly throughout your ownership/status as a gu owner. As for "a gun to hand", that is completely illegal and you cannot own a gun in this country for the purpose of self defence.Speculationa, assumption and guess work cannot be argued with as its all made up.Again you don't understand the gun laws in Ireland. Your analogy about the car is wrong. If you lock your car, alarm it, have an immobiliser, and keep it in a garage and still gets stolen should you be banned from owning another car?
I kept the list of criteria fairly short for ease of reading but if you want to see what we have to go through, which includes signing away our medical privacy rights, warrantless entry to our homes, etc, then have a read of the process in its entirety here.
Thanks, I’ll take a look. I’m genuinely interested in it having seen this post.Yet it happened. Like with stolen firearms, we try to keep them safe and RFDs (Registered Firearm Dealers) have much more stringent security than us yet they get robbed too. An Gardaí╔ sign off on all these measures, as well as demanding which ones should be done, so what more can you expect?
I guess you can’t really expect more than that.I cannot comment on what you claim to have seen but if such a thing did occur then as i said above, its a breach of the firearms act, and an offence even without the gn being stolen. If that gun was stolen the person would lose their license and not have the gun returned or be able to purchase another, most likely.
I would hope that most responsible owners agree with those measures.So its just an opinion! Can you see the harm in making statements like that? The majority of people get their information from TV, Movies or the press/media. Most of these have an agenda and rarely do fact checking so you get a sensationalised story with no data.
Opinion maybe, but let’s be realistic, they’re not being stolen for their scrap metal value, so that leaves a few logical options:
Crime of opportunity, where the burglar has no real end goal. This would imply careless on the part of the owner IMO.
Stolen to be used in serious crime.
Stolen for their monetary value to genuine sportspeople. But I’m correct to say that they then cannot be registered by anyone else?
Can they be broken for parts and sold easily?I cannot say everyone does as i don't know, but they should. not because of some higher moral imperative, but because the law says they must. So in reality they have no choice but to obey this.I understand you are responding to another poster, but i also understand his skepticism. Our sport is attacked at all times because we use firearms instead of a hurl or racket. You yourself came on and made large, unsupported, and baseless assumptions to the point of accusations against gun owners without knowing the law, or the system in place.
As I’ve said, the law and reality are two different things. If I go to the cycling forum and bring up lights, I’ll have the law quoted back to me all day long from people who wouldn’t dream of going out at night without lights, and can’t even comprehend that others might.This is exactly my point. You say this and we're supposed to just believe it happened! Its sensationalist and without proof of it, its just someone anonymous poster claiming something happened. No offence btw, that is simply the truth of the matter.
And I’m to believe that all owners are as conscientious as yourself? All I can really say is that I’ve been on here for over 15 years under this account, and have no reason to to lie about it.Depends on the state as some are almost as strict as Ireland while others are not plus the BIG DIFFERENCE is Ireland is NOT America.
We have on 2nd amendment, no right to firearms, no right to keep and bear arms, and no right to buy or use a gun for self defence.
Agreed, I researched going to a range in California - not a hope. In Texas, I was handed a rifle I could barely lift. I know we’re not the same, but I just thought that the attitude difference was interesting. My point in stating that at all, is that I am in no way anti-firearm at all.I'll give most people the benefit of the doubt, but to be honest in the back of my mind i do wonder myself at times about "new" posters on the forum. There is the part of me that thinks while you may not be trolling you could be pressing for info from firearm owners for an article or press related matter. It has happened many times in the past and we're always, and i mean always, made out to be "gun nuts" so we're naturally cautious.
I can assure you that I’m not writing an article. I saw the post on the main page, have a passing interest in the subject, and believe that irresponsible owners should face repercussions.Farmers or owners of one shotgun got a pass with regards to owning a safe. If you have an issue with that, don't take it up here, head to the farming forum as it was the IFA who got that through.
I guess there’s a fine line between quick accessibility and security.As for having an opinion, get involved with shooting sports here and you'll soon understand why people are so defensive, we are under constant pressure from idiot politicians and others who actually don't know the first thing about firearms or shooting.
I understand that, I can see from the replies that conducting your business within the letter of the law is an onerous task.Having a firearm pointed at you ? Why, what were you doing ?Please don't bring America into it, you might as well be talking about the far side of Neptune, no comparison to ireland at all.
As above, my point really was that I’m not some anti-gun protester is all.0 -
Kevin Irving wrote: »T
And I get accused of victim blaming…. Sleepwalking, and walking along a road.
So, walking along a road and a farmer pointed a gun at you? Really?
And where the fcuk were you sleepwalking when you had a gun pointed at you? Or am I misunderstanding things, was the gun owner sleepwalking?
Apologies but colour me sceptical.0 -
Kevin Irving wrote: »The first was when I was a kid, sleepwalking and the second was a farmer when I was a teenager.I think they’re very much related. Opportunistic crime thrives on carelessness.If reality reflected the law, then the courts would be very empty places. I have no doubt that the majority of owners do comply with all restrictions imposed on them, but that’s not to say that everyone does, and quoting the law doesn’t make it so.Likewise, other than the existence of a law which mandates otherwise,we don’t have data to say that all 200 guns stolen per year are cut from a safe.I would hope that most responsible owners agree with those measures.Crime of opportunity, where the burglar has no real end goal.
This would imply careless on the part of the owner IMO.
How? How is having them stored in a safe wit trigger locks and/or alarms careless? You are now bordering on being argumentative simply to illicit a reaction.Stolen for their monetary value to genuine sportspeople. But I’m correct to say that they then cannot be registered by anyone else?
Can they be broken for parts and sold easily?....... but it’s important to remember the subset (of any group) that couldn’t care less.As I’ve said, the law and reality are two different things.I can assure you that I’m not writing an article. I saw the post on the main page, have a passing interest in the subject, and believe that irresponsible owners should face repercussions.
I cannot remember or find one case of a firearm owner being arrested or imprisoned/fined for leaving their firearms sitting around. Yet we are treated as the criminal when a theft occurs and we're also the whipping boys when criminal acts involving guns (those illegally imported.not stolen) because we are known section and An Gardaí can punish us and release a press statement about how they are tackling gun crime.- The shooting in the Dublin Hotel a few years back was done with AK-47s. You cannot own them in Ireland.
- About 10 years about a guy was shot at on the M50 with a Mac10 machine pistol. You cannot own them.
- In the Garda release of stolen guns they listed grenades and machine guns. As we cannot own them it must be Garda or Defence forces yet the data for those are lumped into civilian ownership (see now why the numbers cannot be trusted).
- Shane Geoghohan was murdered in Limerick in 2008 by gangland criminals. The DoJ response was to ban handguns over a certain caliber for all legal gun owners. The Minster even admitted it'll have no effect on criminal acts but he had to be seen to be doing something so he punished us for the actions of criminals.
Fair enough. Might explain some opportunistic thefts I suppose?
I guess there’s a fine line between quick accessibility and security.
I'll finish with this. In America the anti gun crowd are so scared of this Covid-19 pandemic that they are now trying to buy guns. They are learning the hard way that the propaganda they have been fed over the years and spouted themselves is not true as they are being refused permission/licenses, cannot buy a gun online, have to do background checks, etc.
IOW try buying a gun someday and you'll find out exactly what we go through. The expense, the background checks, the security costs, the criteria to get one, and finally waiting to see if AGS deem you worthy to own one..Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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Cass there is an old old saying. You've given some darned good answers. BUT.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon.
No matter how good you are, the bird is going to poo-poo on the board and strut around like it won anyway.1 -
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BattleCorp wrote: »So, walking along a road and a farmer pointed a gun at you? Really?
And where the fcuk were you sleepwalking when you had a gun pointed at you? Or am I misunderstanding things, was the gun owner sleepwalking?
Apologies but colour me sceptical.
Really. Walking along a road, and not even on the farmers land.
I was staying in someone's house, sleepwalked and made enough noise for them to think it was a break in.Again, unsubstantiable claims. IOW hearsay.For starters i didn't quote the law and again you are making baseless assumptions about the actions of a community of people you know nothing about.What law, mandating what?Yes we do, An GArdaí have it on PULSE. Where each firearm was stolen from and whether that person was an RFD or private owner.
This is your idea of logical thinking?
How? How is having them stored in a safe wit trigger locks and/or alarms careless? You are now bordering on being argumentative simply to illicit a reaction. [/QUOTE]
Can you categorically tell me that every firearm that was reported stolen last year, was stored in the correct manner?No, and no. So that is another "logical" reason with no basis in reality or law
Just in case there’s any misinterpretation of my quote, what I’m saying is that I know there’s no market for stolen guns or parts among genuine sportspeople.
But theft can be categorized into opportunistic or targeted. If criminals aren’t interested, and there’s no second hand market, then why are thieves going to such effort to steal them?You're making a presumptive leap that you cannot support with data or facts. Look on social media where the rules are not as strict as on a forum like this and you'll find that people still educate and inform others of what is right and wrong. The shooting community is a tight knit one and we understand that firearm ownership is a privilege, not a right, and that privilege can be removed for any reason. With the time and money we invest in our sport, each person, no one wants to jeopardize that by acting outside the law.
And you’re making the inverse presumption that all gun owners form a single conscientious, responsible, law abiding hive mind. I’ve specifically differentiated careless owners that I’ve personally seen (who I know are the minority) from others (on this forum), and yet you seem to want to take umbrage to that.And what about the criminals?
Of course, I’ve never argued otherwise.I cannot remember or find one case of a firearm owner being arrested or imprisoned/fined for leaving their firearms sitting around.
On that point, while some with one shotgun may not be required to have a safe the law says they must break the firearm into its component parts, store the parts in different locations throughout the house and have a trigger lock on the gun. So its not a case of a shotgun sitting in a hot-press somewhere.
So what you’re saying is, because the law says so, it’s always the case? That’s patently ridiculous. By that measure of reasoning, only 4 dogs left a mess on the streets of Cork in 21 years.
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Just-four-dog-foul-fines-issued-in-Cork-in-21-years-dc2b8979-150b-4365-a6f0-28025ffbbb3a-ds0 -
I rest my case0
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With this Covid-19 thing i'm stuck at home so nothing better to do than argue some things with people.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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Kevin Irving wrote:As is pretty much anything that anyone says online.Just because you wouldn’t do it, doesn’t mean that nobody would.I’m trying to differentiate between actions that I have personally seen which I would deem irresponsible,and the community here who evidently take a different approach.
See why people are skeptical about your interactions here?That firearms must be stored in a particular manner.Can you categorically tell me that every firearm that was reported stolen last year, was stored in the correct manner?........ then why are thieves going to such effort to steal them?
If you're asking for an educated guess i'd hazard the firearms are not the intended target, simply an afterthought. The real target would be the ammo. True criminals can have guns bought or imported through illegal channels, but the ammo is larger, bulkier and harder to keep flowing.
Firearms stolen from homes can be traced, those illegally imported cannot. Thieves and scum don't want the authorities to be able to trace back where the guns came from and as An Gardaí have already admitted they don't recover the majority of firearms used in crimes they cannot give data on where the firearms come from.And you’re making the inverse presumption that all gun owners form a single conscientious, responsible, law abiding hive mind.
240,000 firearms in the state, 160,000 licensees and the number of injuries, shootings, crimes and criminal activity linked to any of those 160,000 is so low as to be insignificant (absolute zero is a fallacy).I’ve specifically differentiated careless owners that I’ve personally seen (who I know are the minority) from others (on this forum), and yet you seem to want to take umbrage to that.
Secondly what is it that you claim they done wrong? One you say was a case of someone thinking you were a burglar, and the other, which i don't believe for a minute, is some random farmer pointed a gun at you for walking down a road!So what you’re saying is, because the law says so, it’s always the case?That’s patently ridiculous.
To quote the late, great, Chris Farley,:
“I can get a great look at a t-bone steak by shoving my head up a bull's ass but I'd rather take the butchers word for it."
You have thousands of firearm owners on this forum and of those replying they are all telling you that your made up stories are, well, made up, and the law allows for nothing of what you've mentioned and you still think you know better from your invented, two, incidents.By that measure of reasoning, only 4 dogs left a mess on the streets of Cork in 21 years.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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Lock it up FFS Cass. He is like my oul fella was, he could be completely wrong and be obviously so, but all the devils in hell could not get him to admit it.0
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I cannot lock a thread because its become tiresome, but i also not trying to convince him of the error of his ways. Its more aimed at a rebuttal so others reading it, that are not familiar with firearms either, don't see the baseless assumptions, wild accusations and tall stories going unchallenged.
Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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I cannot lock a thread because its become tiresome, but i also not trying to convince him of the error of his ways. Its more aimed at a rebuttal so others reading it, that are not familiar with firearms either, don't see the baseless assumptions, wild accusations and tall stories going unchallenged.
It sure has.0 -
However not everything is making unfounded accusations against a particular section of the community as you have done against firearm owners.
I've been careful to continuously differentiate between careless vs. conscientious owners. As far as I can work out, you're far more keen to align yourself with anyone at all who owns a firearm, than you are to call out (the very few) irresponsible owners.Instead of commenting on unsubstantiable stories here why not ring the people in charge of dealing with such incidents. I'll give ya their number - 999
So you claim that one or two separate, and unprovable, instances creates a pattern yet when everyone here has said otherwise and that is an anomaly?
See why people are skeptical about your interactions here?
You're way off the mark here - please quote where I've said it's a pattern. I know they were isolated incidents.
Nevertheless, when I even dare to talk about a negative experiences I've had (among other positive ones I must add), you're more interested in discrediting what I had to say rather than take it at face value and even consider that someone may have had a lapse of judgment.As i'm not a scumbag criminal i wouldn't know.
If you're asking for an educated guess i'd hazard the firearms are not the intended target, simply an afterthought.The real target would be the ammo. True criminals can have guns bought or imported through illegal channels, but the ammo is larger, bulkier and harder to keep flowing.
Firearms stolen from homes can be traced, those illegally imported cannot. Thieves and scum don't want the authorities to be able to trace back where the guns came from and as An Gardaí have already admitted they don't recover the majority of firearms used in crimes they cannot give data on where the firearms come from.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense to me. If they've gone to the trouble steal ammo, may as well take the gun too.There is nothing presumptive about it.
240,000 firearms in the state, 160,000 licensees and the number of injuries, shootings, crimes and criminal activity linked to any of those 160,000 is so low as to be insignificant (absolute zero is a fallacy).
As you say, absolute zero is a fallacy, and yet within that group of 160,000, there are zero careless owners?That you have claim to seen.
Secondly what is it that you claim they done wrong? One you say was a case of someone thinking you were a burglar, and the other, which i don't believe for a minute, is some random farmer pointed a gun at you for walking down a road!
Again with the sly discreditation, you know full well I can't prove it years after the fact.
I don't actually see anything much wrong with the first incident apart from the easily accessibility of the gun. As for the farmer, maybe he thought we were checking the place out, maybe he thought it was funny, I've no idea.Yes.
More regular posters to this forum have even mentioned themselves about knowing people who store guns under the bed, and yet you flat out refuse to acknowledge this even happens - because the law says it shouldn't.Your distrust and closed minded attitude means no matter what i say you will still find fault with a community and section of society you have no practical experience with.
You have thousands of firearm owners on this forum and of those replying they are all telling you that your made up stories are, well, made up, and the law allows for nothing of what you've mentioned and you still think you know better from your invented, two, incidents.
I can't say it enough times, I don't have any issue with firearms whatsoever., or their owners as a group. None. I was just interested in the actual situation around storage and theft of firearms. Thank you for your answers on that front, honestly.
However, it is ironic that you mention distrust, and then immediately call me a liar. It's not surprising that an us vs. them mentality develops if that's how new posters are treated, albeit ones with different options. May as well se the forum to private and keep out anyone with genuine questions.0 -
The more I suffer through reading this the more I have come to the conclusion, that you are trying to get members of the gun community to admit to a certain amount of flouting of the firearms laws, and for us to admit publicly that illegal activity is carrying on and that we are condoning it. But to what end I am unsure of yet.
You seem very insistent that we believe your experiences on your say so, irrespective of how bizzare your stories are.0 -
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Normally if you ignore someone and don't give them the space, they get bored and go away.0