Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

03-06-2018 12:08pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Such a pretty turn of phrase you have there. I think you will find that others think it’s the conservatives who need the dup but you worry all you want pal. Though they say worry isn’t good for the digestion.

I believe the correct advice here Tim, is don’t feed the Kermit

BorneTobyWilde · 03-06-2018 12:09pm

Solution to border is for Ireland to join forces with UK and leave the EU. We should then use a version of the pound like Scotland and NI do. Ireland, UK, USA, China v EU boom !

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 12:09pm

OldRio wrote: »

Please don't refer to me as 'mate'

So you can refer to me as a dinosaur but I can’t call you mate. Seems a tad unfair old bean.

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 12:10pm

I normally like frogs so a tad disappointing this thread....

Sofiztikated · 03-06-2018 12:14pm

Is there much need for rear view mirrors in NI?

Cos the unionists are constantly looking to the past, they can never seem to look to the future.

03-06-2018 12:15pm

timthumbni wrote: »

I normally like frogs so a tad disappointing this thread....

Right, forgetting history and all that, what would you like to see happening in the long term for NI?

briany · 03-06-2018 12:16pm

Help! My boss is bullying me into delivering a cogent set of strategy proposals for our business by a certain date! It's so unfair because devising these strategies is my job and I'd agreed to the deadlines!

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 12:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

I normally like frogs so a tad disappointing this thread....

Right, forgetting history and all that, what would you like to see happening in the long term for NI?

I would prefer to see self government return but god knows when or if that will happen. If it doesn’t then the UK should restore direct rule and make the decisions that matter.

The fact that the morons at stormont are still getting paid is something I would also like to see stopped.

riffmongous · 03-06-2018 12:31pm

Won't direct rule just mean abortions and gay marriage? Can't see that going down too well in certain quarters

Sofiztikated · 03-06-2018 12:33pm

timthumbni wrote: »

I would prefer to see self government return but god knows when or if that will happen. If it doesn’t then the UK should restore direct rule and make the decisions that matter.

The fact that the morons at stormont are still getting paid is something I would also like to see stopped.

And if a decision was made to bring NI in line with the laws that govern the rest of the UK?

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 12:39pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

I would prefer to see self government return but god knows when or if that will happen. If it doesn’t then the UK should restore direct rule and make the decisions that matter.

The fact that the morons at stormont are still getting paid is something I would also like to see stopped.

And if a decision was made to bring NI in line with the laws that govern the rest of the UK?

Are you referring to gay marriage/abortion??. I would very much support any decision that allows for equal marriage and the right to abortions (in agreed circumstances and within time guidelines etc).

Sofiztikated · 03-06-2018 2:03pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Are you referring to gay marriage/abortion??. I would very much support any decision that allows for equal marriage and the right to abortions (in agreed circumstances and within time guidelines etc).

So something that SF are pushing for, but DUP are firmly against?

Capt'n Midnight · 03-06-2018 2:39pm

Trasna1 wrote: »

It's in pounds so Ireland assumes the currency risk.

:pac:

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 2:42pm

Is it really bullying to point out to your slightly deluded ex who has a major superiority complex and poor grasp of maths, that they’re being even more dangerously deluded than usual?

dude_abided · 03-06-2018 4:42pm

Quite a lot of people here would be the first fùck off to the UK if another recession hit..

Just like like the last time.

And the time before that...

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 5:31pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

Are you referring to gay marriage/abortion??. I would very much support any decision that allows for equal marriage and the right to abortions (in agreed circumstances and within time guidelines etc).

So something that SF are pushing for, but DUP are firmly against?

Correct..if only SF weren’t apologists for the child and anyone else murdering ira then I might even vote for them myself. But they are so that’s that........

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 5:33pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

Is it really bullying to point out to your slightly deluded ex who has a major superiority complex and poor grasp of maths, that they’re being even more dangerously deluded than usual?

As opposed to that possessive ex boyfriend who vows to make his ex’s life a misery no matter where she goes.....

Nomis21 · 03-06-2018 5:44pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

We are not more British than Finchley, I think I can safely say. I don't know where you got that idea from. Have you ever been to Finchley?

I was born in Finchley. I lived there 30 years. 10 years ago I moved to Ireland.

I would never go back to living in Finchley or anywhere else in UK because it is a society where people don't care about each other. By voting for Brexit the British have shown they don't care about anyone except themselves. In all the arguments prior to the vote did you ever hear Ireland mentioned at all?

The Turkey's have voted for Christmas and I am so grateful I live in this country and not the UK.

Taytoland · 03-06-2018 5:45pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Solution to border is for Ireland to join forces with UK and leave the EU. We should then use a version of the pound like Scotland and NI do. Ireland, UK, USA, China v EU boom !

You never should have left the Union. A disaster for Ireland and a referendum should be called on rejoining.

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 5:47pm

Nomis21 wrote: »

Peregrinus wrote: »

We are not more British than Finchley, I think I can safely say. I don't know where you got that idea from. Have you ever been to Finchley?

I was born in Finchley. I lived there 30 years. 10 years ago I moved to Ireland.

I would never go back to living in Finchley or anywhere else in UK because it is a society where people don't care about each other. By voting for Brexit the British have shown they don't care about anyone except themselves. In all the arguments prior to the vote did you ever hear Ireland mentioned at all?

The Turkey's have voted for Christmas and I am so grateful I live in this country and not the UK.

Jaysus. Ok. So the uk people dont care about each other but those within the eu do. Ffs.....

riffmongous · 03-06-2018 6:01pm

Taytoland wrote: »

You never should have left the Union. A disaster for Ireland and a referendum should be called on rejoining.

I totally agree that we should have a referendum on it... It would be ****ing hilarious

Anne1982h · 03-06-2018 6:20pm

Skedaddle wrote: »

It's fairly inevitable that they'll blame everyone else for the fact that they've got to deal with reality.

They've just potentially destroyed the NI peace process and could cause tens of billions of damage to the Irish economy, yet we're bullying them?

There's an answer to a comment like that : grow the **** up and stop whining! The world doesn't owe you a living!

This!! I live on the border and they showed a complete and utter disregard for all communities both sides of the border when voting Brexit. Now it’s a huge thorn in their side but we have to stay firm on this because too much is at stake for peace in the north. What sort of idiots blindly vote through Brexit without even contemplating how to deal with the border. We need to stay strong and insist they come up with a proper solution. If they see that as bullying then fine. We still need a solution.

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 6:25pm

Anne1982h wrote: »

Skedaddle wrote: »

It's fairly inevitable that they'll blame everyone else for the fact that they've got to deal with reality.

They've just potentially destroyed the NI peace process and could cause tens of billions of damage to the Irish economy, yet we're bullying them?

There's an answer to a comment like that : grow the **** up and stop whining! The world doesn't owe you a living!

This!! I live on the border and they showed a complete and utter disregard for all communities both sides of the border when voting Brexit. Now it’s a huge thorn in their side but we have to stay firm on this because too much is at stake for peace in the north. What sort of idiots blindly vote through Brexit without even contemplating how to deal with the border. We need to stay strong and insist they come up with a proper solution. If they see that as bullying then fine. We still need a solution.

Stop the hysterics please. It will be up to the states themselves to protect/ police their own borders. Both the uk and the Irish say they don’t want a hard border. It should be easy from there. This isn’t world war 3. Too many bedwetters about today...

AnneFrank · 03-06-2018 6:31pm

800 years.Fcuk them

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 6:32pm

AnneFrank wrote: »

800 years.Fcuk them

I laughed at that. Cheers...

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 6:32pm

I think the whole thing points to a very fundamental flaw in the structure of the UK itself: it never evolved into a federation of any type. It's 'England and some other minor countries we acquired along the way.'

As a result you've got the peripheral union members being dragged off a cliff by England.

It should have had major constitutional reform centuries ago, but it didn't, and the result has always been strains, confused identities and a large degree of dysfunction.

I always feel it's a modern, progressive country (countries) firmly bolted to a legacy mess of nearly medievalism that includes a formalised class system (in the 21st century), the Lords (including Bishops of the Church of England) in the legislature, English notions of superiority over the rest of the UK, and so on.

When you get some issue like this, the cracks all show up.

If the UK economy does go wallop due to Brexit, it will be interesting to see how the aftermath is handled and whether the union will survive as it is now.

My experience of the English relationship with Northern Ireland is that they think it's a foreign country and somehow has nothing to do with them. I've had 'shock' a few times when I explained that the Troubles largely happened in *the UK* not the Republic of Ireland, as Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 6:38pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

I think the whole thing points to a very fundamental flaw in the structure of the UK itself: it never evolved into a federation of any type. It's 'England and some other minor countries we acquired along the way.'

As a result you've got the peripheral union members being dragged off a cliff by England.

It should have had major constitutional reform centuries ago, but it didn't, and the result has always been strains, confused identities and a large degree of dysfunction.

I always feel it's a modern, progressive country (countries) firmly bolted to a legacy mess of nearly medievalism that includes a formalised class system (in the 21st century), the Lords (including Bishops of the Church of England) in the legislature, English notions of superiority over the rest of the UK, and so on.

When you get some issue like this, the cracks all show up.

If the UK economy does go wallop due to Brexit, it will be interesting to see how the aftermath is handled and whether the union will survive as it is now.

I agree the lords should be abolished. Why should uk economy go wallop after leaving the eu though ? Do economies of a high standard not exist out with the eu?

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 6:41pm

timthumbni wrote: »

I agree the lords should be abolished. Why should uk economy go wallop after leaving the eu though ? Do economies of a high standard not exist out with the eu?

Potentially massive disruption to highly integrated supply chains and several years of environmental instability would be two of the major reasons.

I don't think the exit schedule is possible to achieve at all without something very dramatic happening.

You can't really just compare a country that is deeply integrated into a system like the EU and one that isn't. There are so many things that have developed assuming that the integrated structures were permanent.

The open hostility towards even contemplating a proper deal with the EU, which is the world's largest developed economy (or possibly 2nd largest after the UK leaves but it's still huge), no deal with the US and potential economic shocks from a deal with them if it's on bad terms, and the list is endless really.

If they crash out, it's a BIG problem.

To do this without major problems, it should have been prepared for for about 8 years, then activate article 50, then leave in a sane and agreed way.

What we look like we're headed for is storming off in a huge hissy fit doing maximum damage.

The problem I'm seeing is a sort of mix of arrogance, haste and fatalism that could end up causing very serious economic problems.

Leaving the EU is possible, but it's a bit like unscrambling an omelette - you need a team of top experts and a hell fo a lot of patience and dedication to achieve even a partial result. To stretch a metaphor, the UK is going to end up with no omelet and egg all over the place.

timthumbni · 03-06-2018 7:00pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

I agree the lords should be abolished. Why should uk economy go wallop after leaving the eu though ? Do economies of a high standard not exist out with the eu?

Potentially massive disruption to highly integrated supply chains and several years of environmental instability would be two of the major reasons.

I don't think the exit schedule is possible to achieve at all without something very dramatic happening.

You can't really just compare a country that is deeply integrated into a system like the EU and one that isn't. There are so many things that have developed assuming that the integrated structures were permanent.

The open hostility towards even contemplating a proper deal with the EU, which is the world's largest developed economy (or possibly 2nd largest after the UK leaves but it's still huge), no deal with the US and potential economic shocks from a deal with them if it's on bad terms, and the list is endless really.

If they crash out, it's a BIG problem.

To do this without major problems, it should have been prepared for for about 8 years, then activate article 50, then leave in a sane and agreed way.

What we look like we're headed for is storming off in a huge hissy fit doing maximum damage.

The problem I'm seeing is a sort of mix of arrogance, haste and fatalism that could end up causing very serious economic problems.

Leaving the EU is possible, but it's a bit like unscrambling an omelette - you need a team of top experts and a hell fo a lot of patience and dedication to achieve even a partial result. To stretch a metaphor, the UK is going to end up with no omelet and egg all over the place.

Good post actually. I would suggest however that in the end the transition from being in the eu to the outside of it will be a lot easier than the scaremongers would have you believe. It has to be remembered that a bit over 100 years ago Europe had real tangible problems,

steddyeddy · 03-06-2018 7:21pm

timthumbni wrote: »

I agree the lords should be abolished. Why should uk economy go wallop after leaving the eu though ? Do economies of a high standard not exist out with the eu?

Yes they do, but Britain's economy prior to joining the single market was in the gutter. They joined the single market to revive their economy. An economy that was previously only strong because imperial interests like India.

As countries England and Scotland are strong economies. Northern Ireland and Wales aren't. The UK's economy currently exists in its current condition because of the single market. If the cost of trade increases for everything and there are delays in transporting goods, therefore increasing costs then there are going to be massive problems.

The UK won't be in a single market and will therefore be negotiating from a much weaker position.

Ask yourself:

1. Who's offered Britain a great trade deal?
2. If the UK are in such a strong position why are they caving to EU demands?

indioblack · 03-06-2018 7:22pm

Nomis21 wrote: »

I was born in Finchley. I lived there 30 years. 10 years ago I moved to Ireland.

I would never go back to living in Finchley or anywhere else in UK because it is a society where people don't care about each other. By voting for Brexit the British have shown they don't care about anyone except themselves. In all the arguments prior to the vote did you ever hear Ireland mentioned at all?

The Turkey's have voted for Christmas and I am so grateful I live in this country and not the UK.

Come on. Did the ROI join the EEC for the benefit of Europe?
Did they take all that money from 1973 because of their innate altruism? [You only began to pay in more than you received in 2014].
You live in a country where everyone genuinely cares for everyone else?
And you've left a country where nobody cares about anybody?
With an attitude like yours, I'm sure there are plenty of your former hosts who are glad you reside where you are now.

Galwayguy35 · 03-06-2018 7:31pm

There's no need for a UI, the loyalists would never go for it and we don't need the extra expense of trying to pay for the 6 counties.

Nationalists have the choice to be Irish citizens so I think most people are happy to leave well enough alone

Actually I like the fact that the Brits have to pump £11 billion a year into NI to keep it going even though it's about as useful to the rest of the UK as a third ball and they would throw it back to us in the morning if they could.

As for the loan that the UK gave us, it's being paid back with interest so that little bollix Andrew Pierce needs to shut up talking sh1te.

You would swear if was a gift they gave us,actually it should have been a gift considering they cut down all the forests to make the ships for their empire which would be worth billions today.

steddyeddy · 03-06-2018 7:50pm

indioblack wrote: »

Come on. Did the ROI join the EEC for the benefit of Europe?
Did they take all that money from 1973 because of their innate altruism? [You only began to pay in more than you received in 2014].
You live in a country where everyone genuinely cares for everyone else?
And you've left a country where nobody cares about anybody?
With an attitude like yours, I'm sure there are plenty of your former hosts who are glad you reside where you are now.

The poster is using hyperbole. People in the UK do care for each other, but once again Brexit has highlighted the fact that British nationalism is toxic for Ireland.

indioblack · 03-06-2018 8:02pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

The poster is using hyperbole. People in the UK do care for each other, but once again Brexit has highlighted the fact that British nationalism is toxic for Ireland.

I'll await the poster's reply to confirm that. Hyperbole needs to be crafted carefully - else it becomes hyperbolic!
Much easier to say what you mean.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 8:31pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Good post actually. I would suggest however that in the end the transition from being in the eu to the outside of it will be a lot easier than the scaremongers would have you believe. It has to be remembered that a bit over 100 years ago Europe had real tangible problems,

I suspect it will cause about a decade of recession. There’s a hell of a bumpy ride ahead of this is a hard Brexit without ageeement.

It won’t be “mad max” but it could well be 2008 all over again.

The biggest issue is that economies are based on confidence and is that runs out, the UK has a pretty big debt load that could suddenly crystallize

03-06-2018 8:34pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

I think the whole thing points to a very fundamental flaw in the structure of the UK itself: it never evolved into a federation of any type. It's 'England and some other minor countries we acquired along the way.'

As a result you've got the peripheral union members being dragged off a cliff by England.

It should have had major constitutional reform centuries ago, but it didn't, and the result has always been strains, confused identities and a large degree of dysfunction.

I always feel it's a modern, progressive country (countries) firmly bolted to a legacy mess of nearly medievalism that includes a formalised class system (in the 21st century), the Lords (including Bishops of the Church of England) in the legislature, English notions of superiority over the rest of the UK, and so on.

When you get some issue like this, the cracks all show up.

If the UK economy does go wallop due to Brexit, it will be interesting to see how the aftermath is handled and whether the union will survive as it is now.

My experience of the English relationship with Northern Ireland is that they think it's a foreign country and somehow has nothing to do with them. I've had 'shock' a few times when I explained that the Troubles largely happened in *the UK* not the Republic of Ireland, as Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

You spouted similar bull**** in the politics thread. Maybe you should live in the uk for a while and learn about the place before making n even bigger fool of yourself.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 9:03pm

Aegir wrote: »

You spouted similar bull**** in the politics thread. Maybe you should live in the uk for a while and learn about the place before making n even bigger fool of yourself.

Great rebuttal there! Well done. You must be proud.
You have not actually countered any of my points.

In my experience of having lived in the UK I have always found it has a completely confused sense of national identity. I’ve found a lot of English people disown Northern Ireland either due to ignorance or because they want to distance themselves from it when it’s doing something awkwardly embarrassing and it *is* a modern country bolted to a legacy system that included an actual formalised class system and an archaic mess in the upper house, that literally does include all the bishops of the Church of England.

The periphery is very much ignored in debate, as there’s no federal system and a kind of weird mishmash of very recent devolution.

You’ve also got NI running as a political system in parallel with different parties in Westminster, and Scotland moving that way with the rise of the SNP which is quite an odd setup.

I do find it’s an odd mix of a modern democracy bolted to a class system and the remnants of an aristocratic system.

The single biggest mess in Brexit has been caused by a mass assumption that the EU border was in Dover not on the Irish border, as it’s not in England.

You can get angry about that being pointed out, but it’s fact.

Junkyard Tom · 03-06-2018 9:16pm

timthumbni wrote: »

Operation United Ireland???...... there is no such thing and there will be no such thing unless you persuade a sizeable number of ni unionists that it is a good thing.

You have it the wrong way round... again. It's the unionist minority that need to keep everyone else persuaded that UK jurisdiction is in their interests.

Arlene and the DUP are doing a superb job of demonstrating why it isn't.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 9:20pm

Well, it’s fairly obvious that if it weren’t for the Tories’ predicament of being supported by the DUP in a minority government, the primary concern would have been a smooth Brexit above all NI unionist concerns.

Taytoland · 03-06-2018 9:20pm

timthumbni wrote: »

EdgeCase wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

I agree the lords should be abolished. Why should uk economy go wallop after leaving the eu though ? Do economies of a high standard not exist out with the eu?

Potentially massive disruption to highly integrated supply chains and several years of environmental instability would be two of the major reasons.

I don't think the exit schedule is possible to achieve at all without something very dramatic happening.

You can't really just compare a country that is deeply integrated into a system like the EU and one that isn't. There are so many things that have developed assuming that the integrated structures were permanent.

The open hostility towards even contemplating a proper deal with the EU, which is the world's largest developed economy (or possibly 2nd largest after the UK leaves but it's still huge), no deal with the US and potential economic shocks from a deal with them if it's on bad terms, and the list is endless really.

If they crash out, it's a BIG problem.

To do this without major problems, it should have been prepared for for about 8 years, then activate article 50, then leave in a sane and agreed way.

What we look like we're headed for is storming off in a huge hissy fit doing maximum damage.

The problem I'm seeing is a sort of mix of arrogance, haste and fatalism that could end up causing very serious economic problems.

Leaving the EU is possible, but it's a bit like unscrambling an omelette - you need a team of top experts and a hell fo a lot of patience and dedication to achieve even a partial result. To stretch a metaphor, the UK is going to end up with no omelet and egg all over the place.

Good post actually. I would suggest however that in the end the transition from being in the eu to the outside of it will be a lot easier than the scaremongers would have you believe. It has to be remembered that a bit over 100 years ago Europe had real tangible problems,

The British economy will be just fine. It will be fine in 20 years from now and people will be wondering what the fuss was about.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 9:22pm

Taytoland wrote: »

The British economy will be just fine. It will be fine in 20 years from now and people will be wondering what the fuss was about.

In 20 years time, yeah maybe. The problem is the 10+ years or so after Brexit.

Whatever way you look at it, this is a very significant adjustment and you will have major bumps in the road.

Taytoland · 03-06-2018 9:26pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

Operation United Ireland???...... there is no such thing and there will be no such thing unless you persuade a sizeable number of ni unionists that it is a good thing.

You have it the wrong way round... again. It's the unionist minority that need to keep everyone else persuaded that UK jurisdiction is in their interests.

Arlene and the DUP are doing a superb job of demonstrating why it isn't.

The fact that the Irish economy would tank tomorrow if a United Ireland happened speaks for itself. The reality is the Irish health system would literally collapse trying to care for 1.8 million extra people when it's struggling as it is. And why anyone would vote to leave sterling to join the Euro would be one of life's mysteries.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 9:29pm

Not necessarily - you wouldn’t be shutting down the NI health system and shuttering the hospitals and placing everyone into the existing HSE, you’d just be continuing on and integrating things over a decade or so.

It might even be the driver for completely reforming the HSE. Bear in mind we spend more per capita on health than the UK does.

I don’t see a United Ireland happening anytime soon though and certainly not in a chaotic slamming the two states together kind of way like that.

steddyeddy · 03-06-2018 9:29pm

Northern Ireland is a basket case because it's run to be a basket case.

Whatever happens it's clear that Northern Ireland won't survive outside of the single market. It will be the biggest casuality of Brexit.

Taytoland · 03-06-2018 9:35pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

Not necessarily - you wouldn’t be shutting down the NI health system and shuttering the hospitals and placing everyone into the existing HSE, you’d just be continuing on and integrating things over a decade or so.

It might even be the driver for completely reforming the HSE. Bear in mind we spend more per capita on health than the UK does.

I don’t see a United Ireland happening anytime soon though and certainly not in a chaotic slamming the two states together kind of way like that.

How is the Irish state going to afford to take on so many people in the health system without completely crippling it, causing gigantic waiting lists. The Irish government would have to increase taxes hugely, causing job loses, the economy would take a huge hit.

AllForIt · 03-06-2018 9:36pm

All this 'special friends' stuff is all superficial nonsense when it's get's down to the nitty gritty. Every country is looking after themselves and that's the way it should be.

Junkyard Tom · 03-06-2018 9:38pm

Taytoland wrote: »

The fact that...

A UI wouldn't happen overnight and it wouldn't be an exercise in absorbing the north with all its baggage in one fell swoop.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 9:38pm

It will survive but it won’t prosper and it brings risks of serious instability if the border comes back.

EdgeCase · 03-06-2018 9:40pm

Taytoland wrote: »

How is the Irish state going to afford to take on so many people in the health system without completely crippling it, causing gigantic waiting lists. The Irish government would have to increase taxes hugely, causing job loses, the economy would take a huge hit.

You’d be taxing an additional 1.8 million people and the northern Irish health system would remain in place. The entire population of NI isn’t on the dole! It would need to become more economically productive and it quite possibly could be as it would suddenly have access to the IDA, the 12.5% corporation tax, the whole infrastructure of the republic’s investment machinery.

You seem to be assuming that they just close all the NI hospitals and other infrastructure, lay off all the staff and then load 1.8 million people into the republic’s system. That simply wouldn’t happen.

Taytoland · 03-06-2018 9:45pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

The fact that...

A UI wouldn't happen overnight and it wouldn't be an exercise in absorbing the north with all its baggage in one fell swoop.

But it would literally change everything from economic outlook from the present government, managing a health service with a huge amount of people having to then join it and then you have the actual voting landscape. You would have something like 20% of the electorate having a fundamental say on the politics of the Dail.

Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

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