Aborting a Down Syndrome Twin at full term.

Brown Bomber · 21-11-2014 10:07am #1

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

21-11-2014 10:13am

each to their own,
whats it got to do with you?

Grayson · 21-11-2014 10:13am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

can we have a Link?

And an apology for bring the nazi's into a thread on the first post.

Penny Tration · 21-11-2014 10:16am

What's 'close to full tern?' iirc, abortions are only legal up to 24 weeks, not full term.

Edit: ridiculous thread title, too. Nothing you've posted indicates that full term abortions are being offered.

Rachiee · 21-11-2014 10:20am

Sounds like utter BS to me the kinda sick rumours the Pro "life" camp spread. Abortion is only legal up to 24 weeks and even at that stage is extremely rare in countries with access to abortion 80 per cent are carried out at under 8 weeks.

Caliden · 21-11-2014 10:26am

You sure it wasn't the UK equivilant of Chris Barry's phoneshow?

Nidgeweasel · 21-11-2014 10:33am

This thread title is pathetic.

michellie · 21-11-2014 10:34am

Full term?? In what country?

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2014 10:37am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

1) No

2) The only person whose morality is relevant in that situation is the person who has to make that decision.

anncoates · 21-11-2014 10:38am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

Sounds like horsesh1t.

bear1 · 21-11-2014 10:38am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

I've re-read this a few times and I've spotted one or two things (in bold) which don't make sense.
The way this post has been written makes it sound like having DS is guaranteed to happen.
The next thing I spotted was the "potential" part. So according to this interview they are saying that DS is somewhat guaranteed but it isn't 100% for sure if the child has it?
Then if the abortion is too late they will allow it to be born and then execute it?
This isn't the 1400s OP and I think either you've made a mistake or the show you were listening to is radio version of Hostel.
I call BS on this.
As for the morality of it, it is fcuking disgusting.
Case in point:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11005285/Australian-couple-abandon-surrogate-twin-with-Downs-syndrome-but-keep-his-sister.html

Absolute scum.

conorhal · 21-11-2014 10:41am

urbanledge wrote: »

each to their own,
whats it got to do with you?

Oh, a residual shred of humanity I suppose?

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

bnt · 21-11-2014 10:44am

Sounds like a scare story by a proponent of the "slippery slope" hypothesis: "if we allow abortions at all, this is what it will lead to". Someone who thinks morality is black-and-white Judeo-Christian, no grey areas allowed.

keano_afc · 21-11-2014 10:46am

urbanledge wrote: »

each to their own,
whats it got to do with you?

So you're essentially saying you have no problem with murdering a child with down syndrome, as its nothing to do with you?

conorhal · 21-11-2014 10:48am

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

What's 'close to full tern?' iirc, abortions are only legal up to 24 weeks, not full term.

Edit: ridiculous thread title, too. Nothing you've posted indicates that full term abortions are being offered.

A quick google would show you that there no time limit for foetal abnormality, including minor ones in the UK.

shruikan2553 · 21-11-2014 10:49am

Isn't there a limit to when you can have an abortion unless the pregnant womans health is at risk?

Some sources would be nice.

conorhal · 21-11-2014 10:51am

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Isn't there a limit to when you can have an abortion unless the pregnant womans health is at risk?

Some sources would be nice.

Will the Marie Stopes clinic do?
http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/women/abortion/abortion-facts/what-uk-law-abortion

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-11-2014 10:59am

Aborting a child at 24 weeks is absolutely disgusting

21-11-2014 10:59am

keano_afc wrote: »

So you're essentially saying you have no problem with murdering a child with down syndrome, as its nothing to do with you?

Correct,
nothing got to do with you either .
When its your twins you can do whatever you like and I won't give a flying ****.

bear1 · 21-11-2014 11:00am

urbanledge wrote: »

Correct,
nothing got to do with you either .
When its your twins you can do whatever you like and I won't give a flying ****.

Jesus that's cold.

Penny Tration · 21-11-2014 11:03am

I see the 'murdering a child' talk has already started.

Let's even it out.

It's terminating the viability of a parasitic organism

Fred Swanson · 21-11-2014 11:08am

This post has been deleted.

Penny Tration · 21-11-2014 11:09am

conorhal wrote: »

A quick google would show you that there no time limit for foetal abnormality, including minor ones in the UK.

A quick Google has told me that it's legal in cases where the child will be severely disabled, not have a hare lip.

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2014 11:12am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Well, that escalated quickly.

I'm still waiting for the OP to provide a source for their nonsense talk.

I get the feeling that none will be forthcoming, but nothing like a good shìt stirring thread with a sensationalist title like it was ripped straight from the Daily Mail.

Wossack · 21-11-2014 11:14am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

Ive read, that in certain cases, of a robot from the future intervening with the port-birth-abortion

typically concluding in a standoff in a steel smelting factory

Delirium · 21-11-2014 11:15am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

That's not an abortion, that infanticide.

robinph · 21-11-2014 11:15am

conorhal wrote: »

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

No you can't.

orubiru · 21-11-2014 11:16am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

Um... that would actually be murder?

keano_afc · 21-11-2014 11:18am

urbanledge wrote: »

Correct,
nothing got to do with you either .
When its your twins you can do whatever you like and I won't give a flying ****.

Wow, I'm genuinely staggered.

Murder is fine folks, as long as it doesnt directly affect you, apparently. And 3 people agree with you.

shruikan2553 · 21-11-2014 11:19am

conorhal wrote: »

Will the Marie Stopes clinic do?
http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/women/abortion/abortion-facts/what-uk-law-abortion

I meant a source for these babies with downs syndrome being killed once they are born.

I'm unsure of what severity is required for a late term abortion and your link didn't explain from my quick look.

DoYouEvenLift · 21-11-2014 11:20am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v8--9R0I2Q

orubiru · 21-11-2014 11:25am

conorhal wrote: »

Oh, a residual shred of humanity I suppose?

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

Who told you this? Do you have a link or something to back it up?

I don't think that's true...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9548293/Mother-who-aborted-baby-in-final-week-of-pregnancy-jailed-for-eight-years.html

seventeen sheep · 21-11-2014 11:25am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

1) Is this the case? I don't know, I imagine it's not, but you're the one making the suggestion, surely you're the one who should provide some sort of back-up for it, instead of asking the rest of us to disprove what you've posted (possibly out of your own imagination, for all we know.)

2) I'll give my views when you provide a proper link to the story. However, I've often heard of "selective abortions" (where one/some embryos are terminated, but not others) occurring early in pregnancies, e.g. in cases of multiple births where carrying all to term is unviable, or where some of the foetuses are terminally ill. It happens all the time, and usually very early on in the pregnancy. I'd be surprised if you can find a valid link to support what you've just suggested.

orubiru · 21-11-2014 11:27am

keano_afc wrote: »

Wow, I'm genuinely staggered.

Murder is fine folks, as long as it doesnt directly affect you, apparently. And 3 people agree with you.

Are we talking about murder or abortion here? They are different things and unless you are under 16 years old you should know that by now.

bear1 · 21-11-2014 11:32am

orubiru wrote: »

Are we talking about murder or abortion here? They are different things and unless you are under 16 years old you should know that by now.

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Penny Tration · 21-11-2014 11:33am

bear1 wrote: »

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Except it's bollocks. It is legal to abort. It is not legal to murder the baby once it's been born.

21-11-2014 11:35am

bear1 wrote: »

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Each to their own is what im saying.abortion for some,tiny american flags for others.
I never gave my opinion on it.
why?
because its none of business what other people want to do and it doesn't effect me in any way.

bear1 · 21-11-2014 11:36am

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Except it's bollocks. It is legal to abort. It is not legal to murder the baby once it's been born.

Oh I agree, I was just saying that we talking about both.
It's the murder bit which I think is utter bollocks and absolutely disgusting if it's true.

Delirium · 21-11-2014 11:43am

bear1 wrote: »

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Murder is an illegal killing, so by definition murder can't ever be legal.

keano_afc · 21-11-2014 11:45am

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Except it's bollocks. It is legal to abort. It is not legal to murder the baby once it's been born.

The poster I quoted said it was fine to take the life of a baby born with down syndrome, as it didnt affect them. Thats murder.

Lemegeton · 21-11-2014 11:53am

conorhal wrote: »

Oh, a residual shred of humanity I suppose?

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

you are either ignorant or deliberately trying to mislead people.
The Law states you need 2 doctors to agree that there is a risk of SEVERE abnormality that would leave the child handicapped. there were some very rare cases in the UK where some unprofessional doctors stretched that law to include a cleft palette, and they were widely condemned.

21-11-2014 11:54am

Well I heard you're allowed murder babies after they're born AND get free prams for them and if you lose the pram it gets replaced even if there is no baby

kylith · 21-11-2014 11:56am

conorhal wrote: »

Oh, a residual shred of humanity I suppose?

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

Please watch your phrasing. The above makes it sound like it is legal to commit infanticide up to 9 months after birth, which is untrue.

Duggy747 · 21-11-2014 11:57am

When I was 12 my parents tried to have me aborted.

Nodin · 21-11-2014 12:02pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Well I heard you're allowed murder babies after they're born AND get free prams for them and if you lose the pram it gets replaced even if there is no baby

....and once you get 5 prams, you get a free car and a house with a satellite dish and sky sports in ALL THE ROOMS.

Packrat · 21-11-2014 12:03pm

Lemegeton wrote: »

you are either ignorant or deliberately trying to mislead people.
The Law states you need 2 doctors to agree that there is a risk of SEVERE abnormality that would leave the child handicapped. there were some very rare cases in the UK where some unprofessional doctors stretched that law to include a cleft palette, and they were widely condemned.

So here we get to it. Not only is it theoretically possible, but it's happened.

Now that wasn't so hard was it?

So these people were 'widely condemned' ? I take from your failure to mention it, that they weren't charged with or convicted of anything?

So it can and does happen without consequences. Thanks, that was all I needed to know.

A_Sober_Paddy · 21-11-2014 12:04pm

bluewolf wrote: »

Well I heard you're allowed murder babies after they're born AND get free prams for them and if you lose the pram it gets replaced even if there is no baby

Swans, Pike, Poles, Single Mothers, Free Mooney, Daily Fail, more Buzz words that sets AF's off:pac:

21-11-2014 12:05pm

And a christmas bonus every christmas AND easter

leeroybrown · 21-11-2014 12:10pm

The OP is just trolling for the kind of anti-abortion reaction they want by posting a deliberately vague story that makes it sound the worst it can. When it gets enough steam going they'll come back and dogmatically argue every minor point of every post until anyone who disagrees leaves the thread to get away.

Brown Bomber · 21-11-2014 12:18pm

Grayson wrote: »

can we have a Link?

Yes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02bgkjs

Grayson wrote: »

And an apology for bring the nazi's into a thread on the first post.

No.
Nothing to apologise for.

ChippingSodbury · 21-11-2014 12:18pm

bluewolf wrote: »

And a christmas bonus every christmas AND easter

That's just ridiculous: how could you get Christmas bonus at Easter?

Aborting a Down Syndrome Twin at full term.

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