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Buffalo & Doozerie - The mild musings of two grumpy old men!

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    #302
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,056 ✭✭✭buffalo


    This morning was one of those where I'm reminded there's idiots across all mode of transport. Although it was heartening to see so many cyclists out (for Bike Week?) and only a couple of them being muppets. About ten of us at the first traffic light, and five motorcyclists, head off onto the Dorset Street, where we're caught by a red light at the Belvidere Road turn. The bus lane is full of left-turning cars, so two of the cyclists hop onto the footpath, and skip the red light to take the left turn. Safer that way?

    Down to Gardiner St, approaching the Parnell St junction. There's three car lanes at one point, and one of those aspirational cycle lanes at the side, where often the motorists don't leave much room. Annoying, but filtering on the other side is usually okay, or scooting with a foot on the kerb. This morning there was a roadsign on the kerb, meaning no room to scoot. Didn't stop the lad in front of me from trying, and then clattering off the wing mirror of the waiting car. I think it was just the zip of his jacket, but just not a smart move at all. He mouthed a 'sorry' at the driver.

    He only got to the front of that car as the lights went green, and then proceeded to cycle in the middle of the car lane in front of the car he had just struck, and I have no idea why. Once I established he wasn't going to swing back in on top of me, I undertook and moved on. I later met him again waiting at a red light, while he rolled on through it, along with a Dublin Bike user who then mounted the footpath. I have some symapthy though, the back of the Custom House is a bit of a free-for-all junction.

    Then as I made the left turn onto Commons Street from the quays, the driver of the range rover opposite decided sure, why would a cyclist need space to make a turn when they [cyclist] have right of way, and made a swift right turn in front of me, as I hit the brakes.

    Lastly, to complete the set, approaching my final set of traffic lights, a glob of pedestrians nipped across the road while there was no traffic. Grand, grand. When I'm about five metres away, some other lad has a delayed reaction, and steps onto the road, looking the other way. Again, brakes, wide turn.

    Cyclists, car drivers, pedestrians. They should all be shot! I think only the motorcyclists behaved themselves this morning, but wait 'til I tell you about the fella I encountered on a moped yesterday evening...


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    #303
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    buffalo wrote: »

    Does anyone get that sensation, upon returning to the drops after being on TT bars, that you're steering an articulated lorry? Your normal handlebars are now twice as wide, and you're pushing a wheelbarrow or something.

    Yes, and on the hoods it feels like the road bike has become a high nellie type of bike. Also the reduction of the wind noise when in the tri-bars is noticeable and when you go back to drops or hoods it feels like it suddenly became a tad windier.


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    #304
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    I went for a short spin last night, planning some intervals on Cruagh Rd. On my way there I saw a cyclist in kit ahead of me. Commuter races are as nothing compared to the mind games that come into play when you encounter a fellow fully-kitted-out cyclist on the roads. My nice side tries to keep my ego in check but they both end up vying for control, leading to conflicting thought processes going on inside my head.

    I passed the guy as he was pulling a bar from his pocket.

    Nice me thought: "Hello there. You must be at the end of a long ride, or just distracted with food, that's why I'm cruising past you casually. Enjoy the rest of your ride."
    My ego thought: "Pfftt, my heart rate is in zone 1 here, I'm not even trying. Aren't I just fabulous."

    It was only about 2km from there to where I'd start my intervals so I kept in a low gear, in an effort to get my legs properly loosened out by spinning them. A few minutes later the prospect of the imminent effort I'd be putting in slowed me further, I wasn't looking forward to it. Yer man passed me out and he immediately changed to a higher gear.

    Nice me: "Ah, you're off. See ya."
    My ego: " Are you smirking? Ya hour! I'm in zone 2 here, I'm still not trying. You want some do you? And what's with the gear change? Well, I'll see YOU mid interval, OH YEAH!"

    A couple of hundred metres further on and I hit the start of my first interval with yer man about 20m ahead. I was planning to do 4 intervals, each one an all-out effort. I felt strong on that first one, I passed him very quickly.

    Nice me: "Hi, me again. I'm just doing an interval, that's all, I'm not racing you okay. *hug*"
    My ego: "HAHAHA, how does that feel then, eh? Sit and spin! I'm only in zone 3 by the way. *smirk*"
    Nice me: "Zone 3? I'm aiming for zone 5, put a bit of effort in will you!"
    My ego: "Hey, I'm in charge here, you're rubbish without me. So I'm gonna push harder, but only because I WANT to, right"

    I passed a few more riders further up the road, one of them looked and said "You're flying it" as I went past. "I'm giving it everything, that's the only reason" I replied between gasps, while my ego yelled at me internally to save my breath and think of the seconds I'm risking losing on this Strava segment by talking.

    I got to the end of the interval, gulped in some air, dropped into my lowest gear, and slowly climbed a little further while spinning my legs. A bit further ahead yer man passed me again, with what looked like a smile on his face. He changed up a gear again.

    Nice me: "It wasn't a race, you know, it's an interval. It's not about you. I'm in, like, zone 11 here, and stuff!"
    My ego: "SCREW YOU!"

    I turned around and went back down for the next effort. My ego went for a nap, it believed that it had done all of the hard work and needed a well earned rest. That's so like him, the selfish arse. All of my other efforts were significantly slower than the first, it seems like I need my ego's help after all. Not that I'll tell him that of course, the last thing he needs is encouragement.

    After my last interval I rode up to the viewing point and down Stocking Lane. Descending felt particularly fast last night. It wasn't really that fast at all, it probably just felt a little exaggerated because I was tired or something. But it made me more cautious on some of the bends than I'd usually be. Particularly on a bend that swings far to the right near the end. The road was a bit bumpy there, and between that and passing a driveway with poor visibility I kept well out towards the line in the centre of the road. I'd glanced back and the nearest thing I spotted behind was a car several hundred metres back, so I felt very safe. But as I touched the brakes approaching the turn, a (different) guy in kit shot past my right shoulder. He uttered something as he passed, presumably something like "on your right" but that was completely redundant at that point as he was already beside me (whatever happened to yelling ahead of time?). At the same moment a car coming the other way started to round the bend, and the cyclist had to adjust his steering in a hurry to move away from it. Both the other cyclist and I made it round the bend, but I reckon it was touch and go for a brief moment.

    Nice me instantly made excuses for the other guy, maybe I hadn't looked properly over my shoulder, maybe I should have stayed further left, etc. But this time my ego talked sense when it reminded me that the other guy was a dick for creating a dangerous situation by his badly timed overtake. Sure, my ego was a bit sore at being overtaken, but it wasn't a safe point or time to overtake, the guy should have hung back. My inner voices had a quick vote and the result was unanimous, the guy had acted like a gobshyte. Nice me and my ego gave each other a supportive hug. So inner harmony had been achieved, admittedly through less than ideal circumstances.


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    #305
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    buffalo wrote: »
    I think only the motorcyclists behaved themselves this morning, but wait 'til I tell you about the fella I encountered on a moped yesterday evening...

    Moped users and honda 50 couriers are not motorcyclists so your theory holds true.


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    #306
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    The north (Dublin) quays were busy, as ever, this morning with the two outer lanes filled with very slow moving traffic and the bus lane on in the inside half full of buses, taxis, and cyclists. A car in the middle lane pulled into the bus lane a little ahead of me, no indicator and apparently no concern for the cyclist ahead that they encroached upon in the process. The car was a shiny Mercedes, or an Audi, driven by a middle aged man in a suit, and he clearly had somewhere else to be - all he lacked was a neon sign on the roof proclaiming "I am important, outta my way!".

    He made good progress in the bus lane, he must have gained at least 200m on the traffic to his right. He was less than 100m from Jervis Street when he spotted the garda car in the lane to his right. This should be good, I thought. But Mr Important simply pulled right, into the space that conveniently opened up in front of the garda car, maybe the garda driving it actually deliberately left space for him to pull in. Now they have you where they want you, I thought, as I glanced at the garda car and saw that it was fully loaded and primed with two gardai in the front and two in the back. But no, Mr Important drove about 10m in that lane before swinging back into the bus lane again and turned onto Jervis Street a little further ahead.

    I kept left to give the gardai space to pull into the bus lane to follow him, but they just trundled along in the middle lane. I looked at them, two of them were giving me the "Wha?!" look, one of them was giving me the "Look at the state of you!" look. I swung over beside them, they stopped. I told them that Mr Important had used the bus lane as an undertaking lane for the last couple of hundred metres. Their expressions suggested that their real reaction to this was "And?" but one of them said "Okay, thank you". I rode off, hoping to hear the screech of tyres and siren blazing at any moment as the gardai kicked into action and proceeded in hot pursuit. But no.

    So no-one died, no-one sustained even the mildest of injuries (although I strained my indignation muscle and it, like, really hurts), and no damage to anyone's property was caused. All that really happened was that a car full of gardai reinforced the notion that it's acceptable to ignore the rules of the road when it suits you, even when you do so right in front of those responsible for enforcing those laws. Awesome. No concerned road user merit badge for me either then, I guess, tut :(


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    #307
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I had mild musings to how misleading statistics could be in the wrong hands on the way home from work yesterday.

    The night before, 75% of motor vehicles broke red lights. Not blazed through on amber, or just missed it, but the light was red from their approach or they got fed up waiting. In the same journey 0% of cyclists broke the red, one in front of me started to roll from stopped while it was red in anticipation of the impending change to green but he wasn't on the junction till it was green. 100% of cyclist on the same journey had front and rear lights, however only 25% of motorists had the correct lights for their cars, with 37.5% driving with parking lights only, 25% with no lights at all and 12.5% with high beams in a city centre against traffic.

    Sounds bad, however last night, I left work earlier. More traffic, so my numbers are more guess work. 5% of drivers broke red lights, 15% amber gambled. However 33% of those cyclists I seen at junctions broke red lights without stopping, 12% after consideration (stopping and observing). In terms of lighting, I estimate, 5% of drivers had either no lights or side lights only, 35% had parking lights only and 5% had high beams. Approximately 25% of drivers who had lights on had one bulb blown, all but one were taxi drivers. Cyclists on the other hand, 33% had no lights at all, 50% had rear lights only and the rest were lit to legal requirements.

    On the second night, the divide of cyclists was 30% human, 70% hipster.

    Yes I am boring, but it is quiet and easily done while commuting at night.


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    #308
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,314 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    wasn't a black merc or audi (gov ministers car) !

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #309
    couerdelion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭couerdelion


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I had mild musings to how misleading statistics could be in the wrong hands on the way home from work yesterday.

    "73.92% of all statistics on the internet are made up" - Julius Ceasar


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    #310
    GlennaMaddy
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭GlennaMaddy


    doozerie, those Gards were probably on the way to a meeting our court etc. Patrol cars are for patrolling but I've heard the garda fleet is pretty depleted, also, since the introduction of the traffic corps it seems that beat guards don't pay much attention to road traffic offenses unless there's a traffic operation like freeflow running.

    Anyway, why am I making excuses for An Garda.
    Another Guard was in action this morning however,
    Coming in to the city via Whitehall a motorcycle garda passed me this morning, a taxi came along in a lane to the right of him and then switched lanes in front of him with no indication and then stopped at the back of the line of traffic in front. It was clear he didn't notice the gard and wasn't aware that he almost took him out. Traffic moved off and the gard pulled him in further up the road, as I passed I shouted 'fair play gard, he nearly killed ye', the gard took out his ticket book at that moment.
    It was particularly satisfying as the exact same thing happens to me on almost every time I come to that stretch of road.

    The balance of good vs bad was restored.


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    #311
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    @ednwireland, No, this one was a silver car, though his derogatrory attitude to those around him on the roads certainly brought thoughts of a few politicians to mind!


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    #312
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    GlennaMaddy wrote:
    The balance of good vs bad was restored.

    Yeah, but my quartet of gardai could beat up your single garda for sure. And the imbalance of bad over good would be restored :pac:


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    #313
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    There aint nothing a Garda hates more than being told what to do by a "civilian.";)


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    #314
    NeedMoreGears
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭NeedMoreGears


    Bit of a vaguely irritating one this morning. I'm in the centre of the left lane on Alfie Byrne road behind a line of six or so cars waiting for the light to go green before heading left onto East Wall road. Off we go...

    I stay in the middle of the lane as we go around the corner because East Wall briefly narrows to one lane (for those going straight on) before becoming an unofficial two laner further on and I want to be in position for a right turn on East Road about 400m up the road (staying left and trying to cross two lanes of moving traffic at the East Road junction is not the best option). And then....

    Silver range rover in the right lane and just behind me start to pass/drift towards my lane. I hold my position which results in the front left of the car being quite close (<25cm). I suggest the driver gets back into their own lane - no sign language involved. Silver car has to stop as the RH lane becomes a right turn only at the narrow point. I could not believe what happened next Joe.....

    I maintain pace with the traffic and move to the right in anticipation of my forthcoming turn and accelerate hard - I find it's safer to be moving as close as possible to the speed of the cars along there. Happy to have reached 40kph this morning. Then....

    Range Rover lady accerates up behind me blowing the horn and all agitated. Some sign language ensued and I went on my way.

    No biggie - I was reasonably happy I was safe. I don't think it entered the driver's head that they were driving in a dangerous and quite intimidating manner. As I mentioned above only vaguely irritating but really dumb driving.


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    #315
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    NeedMoreGears wrote: »
    Bit of a vaguely irritating one this morning...

    I maintain pace with the traffic and move to the right in anticipation of my forthcoming turn and accelerate hard - I find it's safer to be moving as close as possible to the speed of the cars along there. Happy to have reached 40kph this morning. Then....

    Range Rover lady accerates up behind me blowing the horn and all agitated. Some sign language ensued and I went on my way.

    ...As I mentioned above only vaguely irritating but really dumb driving.

    You restricted a motorist to 40Kph in a 50 zone, hanging offence as you well know!:pac:


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    #316
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Well that was an "interesting" commute this morning. Just before Rathfarnham the roads were unusually quiet as a 4x4 went past me. There was an empty bus lane and an empty car lane at the junction ahead and he pulled left into the bus lane to stop at the red. He had no indicator on but I expected him to turn left into Rathfarnham village or into the garage at the other side of the junction, the only reason to be in the left-only/bus lane since it ended at the garage. A few cars came up and stopped in the straight-on lane to his right. On the green light he just drove straight ahead and pulled back into the now occupied lane to his right. A 4x4 driver meanders all over the road, nothing unusual in that so far.

    I got to the next junction a little after him, to find that he was in the bus lane again and at the head of it, having undertaken a bunch of cars in the lane to his right. I stopped ahead of him, again expecting him to turn left (no indicator, sure he wouldn't want to be telling people his business!). I glanced back at him to see him shaving his chin with a cordless razor. As you do, like. Light went green, I pedaled on, yer man passed me out a few metres ahead, cutting in front of the other lane of traffic in the process, razor now on his upper lip. The upper lip must have been proving a real challenge for him 'cos he dropped down his sun shade so that he could check in its mirror how he was doing, as he drove on, back in the bus lane again, passing other some other cyclists and driving towards the tailback ahead.

    I passed him out again and didn't see him after that. I wonder what his next trick was going to be as he weaved his way through other traffic. Trimming his nose hairs? Waxing his legs? Checking his Facebook page? Spinning plates?

    He got a little bit of competition for the "knob of the day" title from a driver, cup of something or other in his hand, who decided that a green pedestrian light could be construed under this morning's light to be green for him to drive on so he gunned his car forward to the pedestrian lines. Well, several cyclists had just gone through the same red, I guess he felt equally entitled. He seemed to realise his mistake since he took his foot off the accelerator for a moment, but presumably he thought it would be embarrassing to have just driven his car forward a couple of metres or something, so he drove it forward another couple of metres to completely block the pedestrian crossing "lane" (there were no pedestrians crossing at the time, so apparently it becomes a free for all in those circumstances). Yeah, that was much better, surely elevating him from the category of simple idiot to awesome driver, or something. Mr Adventure Shaving beats him to the honorary title though.


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    #317
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Commuting in this morning, at the green light by the junction at Christchurch I got away well ahead of any traffic behind and had a clear road ahead and behind as I cycled down Winetavern Street. That made moving across to the middle lane a lot easier than usual and I picked up speed toward the lights at the bridge ahead. I passed through the lights as they hit orange and I prepared to stop for the red lights just the other side of the bridge. Then I noticed the wing of a car overlapping my back wheel. In their haste to beat the now red light just behind me the driver had presumably pushed over to straddle the lane to our right and was now trying to practically shove me out of the way to make space for their car in the central lane again.

    I stopped at the red light, turned round and with my hand gestured that she should shove over and/or keep back to leave space. She mouthed something through the windscreen. I thought I made out something about "in the way". I laughed at what seemed to be an entirely ridiculous suggestion, essentially that I shouldn't be on the roads at all. She mouthed something else, something that seemed a bit swear-y. The lights were red, and would be for a while, I had time, so I walked back and standing beside her closed window I said I hadn't heard what she had said and would she mind repeating it. She stared straight ahead, through her windscreen, ignoring me entirely. My politeness veil, which had held up very well so far, slipped a little and I suggested that her being dumb would explain a lot.

    I instantly became visible once more apparently, because the window dropped and clearly shaking with rage, she screamed at me that "You wouldn't be doing this if I were a man. FCUK OFF!". The window went back up again. On the contrary, I said, I'd take issue with anyone that tried to drive me off the road. Window down, "You were IN THE WAY! FCUK OFF!", window back up again. No, I was in my lane, I said, but she was already driving her car forward toward the junction. The light was still red. I wheeled my bike around to face forward again, and my tyre bumped her rear light as I did so. Window down, "I'LL REPORT YOU!", window back up.

    I moved back in front of her car, at the head of traffic again, and made a point of reading her license plate. She slammed on the horn. I started to climb back on my bike as the light changed green, she drove her car forward towards me, stopping about a foot from my back wheel. She slammed on her horn again. I cycled off and turned right onto the quays, she skimmed past me as she turned right too, giving me that crazed look that is usually the preserve of the criminally insane, and she floored the car to head down the quay and tag onto the back of a long line of traffic.

    What an absolute farce. It was quite obvious from her body language (and actual language!) that as far as she was concerned she was engaged in some kind of battle. I wanted an acknowledgement that she'd been in the wrong to try to shove me off the road, but she clearly wanted blood. I initially assumed that her attitude was a reaction to the situation she found herself in, of being stuck at a light with no obvious escape and being confronted with someone asking her to try to justify her instance of aggressive and dangerous driving. That's a situation that would make anyone uncomfortable I imagine, none of us particularly like having to own up to our mistakes. But the strength of her reaction suggested that this was more than discomfort, she was extremely aggressive, to the point of threatening me with her car. For her this was some form of actual fight and she was going to use any weapon to hand to fend off what she perceived as the danger, which was me. This woman was volatile, so say the least.

    I often see and hear people refer to using the roads as some kind of battleground, the protaganists being cyclists and motorists, it really isn't and the suggestion that it is I think is very damaging. This woman acted as if she truly believed it is some sort of battle, from the moment where she considered it acceptable to try to shove me off the road and out of her way, right through to the point where she thought it okay to threaten me with her car. That kind of anger is extremely dangerous and I believe that someone so unable to keep it in check needs some form of professional help to learn to live with it without letting it control them. For her part, she has probably consigned this morning's events to another example of "fcuking cyclists" and "the fcuking menace they are on the roads" and her hair trigger will possibly be even more primed, if such a thing were possible, next time she hops into a car. That sucks.

    That makes two incidents of aggression that I (and others - there was one last night which I mentioned in the ICL 2013 thread) have been the target of in the last two days. That's very unusual, these are the first notable incidents in quite a while, but even one is too many. The vast majority of people behave like mature adults on the road, but the minority of utter flakes continue to be a disproportionately loud and aggressive voice.


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    #318
    rollingscone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭rollingscone


    Please tell me you reported her?


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    #319
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    For many driving is a very stressful thing and the roads are an easy place for peoples' frustration and anger to spill out, any perceived wrong can send some people over the edge. In your case she believed you were "in the way." she felt aggrieved, denied justice, cue meltdown.

    God Love the poor woman, no rational person would react in the way she did. Whatever it is in her life that has caused her to react to a cyclist delaying her slightly (which you weren't really) like that, must be very unpleasant.


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    #320
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    Jaysus, people like that should be locked up and not driving cars of any sort anywhere.


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    #321
    NamelessPhil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭NamelessPhil


    doozerie wrote: »


    ... he screamed at me that "You wouldn't be doing this if I were a man. FCUK OFF!". The window went back up again. On the contrary, I said, I'd take issue with anyone that tried to drive me off the road. Window down, "You were IN THE WAY! FCUK OFF!", window back up again. ...

    You seem to have met the twin of the ignorant driver that was discussed here earlier this year.

    The reg didn't match the one in the youtube video did it?


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    #322
    Zyzz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭Zyzz


    Cyclists should really start arming themselves with mace or something similar..pretend it's a CO2 cartridge..sounds a bit extreme but as I've seen from YouTube, some people lose the plot completely and physically attack..the whole 'I have this on camera' is slowly but surely becoming useless :/

    Anyone for a Boards.ie mace/pepper spray order? :pac:


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    #323
    Kav0777
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Kav0777


    Zyzz wrote: »
    Cyclists should really start arming themselves with a mace or something similar..

    mace%2Bmorningstar.jpg

    Fixed that for you...

    ;):D


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    #324
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    valleyoftheunos wrote:
    God Love the poor woman, no rational person would react in the way she did. Whatever it is in her life that has caused her to react to a cyclist delaying her slightly (which you weren't really) like that, must be very unpleasant.

    For me that's exactly what this incident highlights, the fact that road rage incidents so often just boil down to someone "working out" their frustrations at something or other which is completely unrelated, and under the misconception this is somehow reasonable and justified. I'm convinced that, for the most part, those who deem it acceptable to threaten someone with their car would consider it utterly unreasonable and unacceptable to physically threaten someone who they perceive as delaying them in a queue in a shop, for example.

    The root of the problem is certainly someone choosing to vent their aggression on another, but this is facilitated to a certain extent by what seems to be a widely held view that the usual rules of society don't apply directly to our use of the roads. So shoving your way to the head of the queue at the supermarket is taboo, but the all too common shoving your way to the head of a line of traffic is somehow fine. Screaming the ears off a fellow pedestrian for simply slowing or stopping in front of you would be seen as an overreaction, the all too common screaming or blowing the horn at someone who slows you on the road is somehow fine. Pointing a knife at that fellow pedestrian that delays you is psychotic, the reasonably rare but not nearly rare enough driving your car at someone moving more slowly on the roads than you wish to drive is perfectly fine.

    I'm sure that the cocoon, and protected personal space, effect of a car plays a big part in our willingness to adopt such an emotionally detached and callous attitude towards others compared to when we are standing face to face with them, but there seems to be a general acceptance that once on the road (whether in a car, on a bicycle, or whatever) you can simply tone down, or completely discard, your sense of concern for others. At least, the prevalence of casually obnoxious acts that the perpetrators seem to consider normal and reasonable behaviour (running red lights, bullying your way through traffic, parking wherever it suits you regardless of its impact on others, etc.) suggests to me that people really believe that they are not doing anything wrong in doing these things and would be shocked to be called on their behaviour.

    Maybe it was like this from the moment of the first vehicle on the first road, maybe being utterly selfish arses is just in our nature, and it's certainly hard work to challenge such behaviour in others *and* yourself (speaking personally, I'm as prone to adopting that behaviour and attitude as anyone else when on the road), but we should challenge it, not doing so is not only lazy but it's dangerous too. That woman that I encountered this morning could be any of us, me included, if we let ourselves lose sight of the fact that all of our actions on the road can impact on others, blurring the boundaries of what is safe/acceptable behaviour to the extent that we just can't cope when asked to justify our actions. So the incident also served to remind me to carefully moderate my own behaviour on the roads, to not let my inner voice tut when I encounter a slower moving car or cyclist ahead of me for example, I don't want to let my attitude get so distorted that I end up like her.


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    #325
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    doozerie wrote: »
    Maybe it was like this from the moment of the first vehicle on the first road, maybe being utterly selfish arses is just in our nature, and it's certainly hard work to challenge such behaviour in others.

    I think there is something to this. Initially cars were reserved for a very small, very privileged group. Driving a car was actually a way of expressing a privileged position in society - and by extension - others of lesser status were expected to defer on the roads as in other areas of society.

    This translated into wider policies where traffic management, road design town planning was interpreted as involving catering for the needs of those privileged to own cars at the expense of other considerations. Ireland launched itself into car-oriented practices at a time when many urban households still had no cars.

    Although car use became generally accessible and car users now represent a much wider social spectrum - the attitude that being a car user confers some privileged status has been passed down from generation to generation and is carefully nurtured by various interests.


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    #326
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    doozerie, where your shop queue analogy breaks down is that it is difficult to kill someone by running them over with a shopping trolley, whether accidentally or in a casually deliberate fashion. You'd need to take a good long run up and have a nice hard backstop, at least.

    Extreme reactions come from extreme risks, perceived or real.


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    #327
    Boardnashea
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Boardnashea


    Kav0777 wrote: »
    mace%2Bmorningstar.jpg

    Fixed that for you...

    ;):D

    That's a multi-function bicycle pump, officer.


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    #328
    NeedMoreGears
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭NeedMoreGears


    doozerie wrote: »
    ..........I'm sure that the cocoon, and protected personal space, effect of a car plays a big part in our willingness to adopt such an emotionally detached and callous attitude towards others compared to when we are standing face to face with them,.....

    I think you're probably bang on with this. That was certainly the sense I had of the lady I described in my own event the other morning. It never seemed to occur that she was acting aggressively and unreasonably towards me; she was simply intent on elbowing her way into the space I was occupying. I'd suspect that the idea that she might be a danger to me never crossed her mind.


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    #329
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    I think some people are just obsessed with getting to the top of the queue, viz those commuter racers who always work their way to the top of the queue at red lights despite having been passed out by everyone else twice already. Even worse are those people at airport check in queues who stand beside you rather than behind. I hope there is a special circle of hell reserved for those phequers.


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    #330
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Lumen wrote: »
    doozerie, where your shop queue analogy breaks down is that it is difficult to kill someone by running them over with a shopping trolley, whether accidentally or in a casually deliberate fashion. You'd need to take a good long run up and have a nice hard backstop, at least.

    Extreme reactions come from extreme risks, perceived or real.

    That's the point I was making, that doing something that poses little risk, such as jumping a queue in a shop, is considered more socially unacceptable than something that can pose significant risk, such as using your car to shove through traffic. People might tut at someone doing the latter, that's usually as much as happens, and they might even resort to doing the same shoving themselves if they were in a hurry or fed up of waiting in traffic. By contrast most people wouldn't even entertain the prospect of jumping a queue in something like a supermarket.

    So what I'm saying is that when it comes to the roads our perception of risk seems skewed at best and our reactions are therefore all too often bizarre and completely at odds with the reality of the situation.


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    #331
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    On a change of tone, for the first time in a long time, I have been in traffic and for several days heading out of town, drivers behind me have continuously realised I am faster than traffic and have stayed behind me.

    Gave a wave of thanks, they gave a nod and a smile. I just can't fathom why everyday doesn't make as much sense. They hit the bumper of the next car at the same time. It was glorious.


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