More from Roderic O'Gorman (MOD NOTE IN OPENING POST)

reubenmcmurphy · 07-07-2020 6:08pm

Things have changed so fast in so short a time, anyone else think this whole woke thing is simply a cult that has gone global with the backing of elites/the media?

suicide_circus · 07-07-2020 6:09pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not homophobic to ask questions about a Minister for Childrens connections to a fruit cake.
I wish the gays would just stop hiding behind this homophobic bullcrap. A straight person would be under the same if not more scrutiny.

100% correct but as i said SOME of those who went after him for this were doing it for homophobic reasons (and this is what ROG used to dismiss the entire thing). Asking questions about this matter is in no way in and of itself homophobic. And yes I think a straight minister would also have been asked questions.

BattleCorp · 07-07-2020 6:09pm

Whenever I see anything on The Liberal, I automatically go 'nope' and believe the exact opposite. It's working out well so far.

screamer · 07-07-2020 6:10pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Maybe "Roderick" could focus his energy on desperately needed mental health services for under 16's

Kill two birds with one stone

Yeh but that’d take money and genuine hard graft. Easier to change some laws somewhere, to be seen as hip and happening, innit....,

Eric Cartman · 07-07-2020 6:13pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not homophobic to ask questions about a Minister for Childrens connections to a fruit cake.
I wish the gays would just stop hiding behind this homophobic bullcrap. A straight person would be under the same if not more scrutiny.

sure we've an entire thread about a man on a provisional licence being caught over a limit thats below 1 pint , serving his ban and moving on with it , and its endless people asking him to resign, yet dare question lord roderick and you're a homophobe.

Richard Hillman · 07-07-2020 6:17pm

To me it seems like he agreed with what Thatchell said, that's why he kept quiet over the last 5-6 days. When the government felt that it wasn't going away, they made him come out and mildly disagree with the statements made. I would imagine they would have been at him for a couple of days to come out and say something. He could have easily released that statement after Day1 but it seemed like it took some persuading. Coveney came out to support him, he'd probably been banging down his door for the last few days telling him to disavow the comments.

Now they have a fresh story and are going on the offensive. I find it hard to believe that some FF backbenchers would be too keen on this latest story or O'Gorman himself.

Kivaro · 07-07-2020 6:19pm

screamer wrote: »

Yeh but that’d take money and genuine hard graft. Easier to change some laws somewhere, to be seen as hip and happening, innit....,

Yes, it does take money, but why not keep some of that > €1 billion that we send overseas yearly as "aid" and have a system in Ireland where children can avail of mental health services when they need it ........... and not 9 am - 5 pm for children in some counties.

To ignore the mental health needs of our children in Ireland is appalling, which the previous Children's minister was guilty of. Her focus was overseas migrants.

Jesus, why not start with the basics in the Children's department first before concentrating on your grandiose liberal platform.

Gruffalux · 07-07-2020 6:21pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

those services might actually placate the need for these services.

It is concerning absolutely alarming that his first issue in the hot seat is a completely abhorrent agenda to allow the (Imo) mutilation of children with drugs and potentially surgery.

There is a lot of evidence coming forward that many regret transitioning or that kids are wanting to transition to fit in. Ill try dig it up but I remember reading a shocking article (and it was in a legit news source before the pitchforks come out) about a guidance counsellor in a school noticing that one child on the autistic spectrum transitioned and suddenly many of the others who would have been 'outsiders' and on the ASD started doing the same.

Anyone can check my post history to see how I feel about this whole issue with kids and medicalisation - ie completely against - but before people say stuff abot this read about it, it is about changing gender on legal documents. It is NOT about surgery or hormones or pubertal blockers.

There is plenty of scope to lose the head about stuff that is going on re experimental chemicals being used on children to delay puberty or worse still provide cross sex hormones. But this is not what this is about.
I disagree with it. I think it messes with young people's heads before they are capable of making such big decisions. I think it will open up issues like what to do in single sex spaces for under 16s. I wonder why it is necessary. How easy to reverse? Etc etc. But these are all different issues to medicalisation of children.

Eric Cartman · 07-07-2020 6:22pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Yes, it does take money, but why not keep some of that > €1 billion that we send overseas as "aid" and have a system in Ireland where children can avail of mental health services when they need it ........... and not 9 am - 5 pm for children in some counties.

To ignore the mental health needs of our children in Ireland is appalling, which the previous Children's minister was guilty of. Her focus was overseas migrants.

Jesus, why not start with the basics in the Children's department first before concentrating on your grandiose liberal platform.

+1 over 90% of children in Ireland are not foreign, are not trans etc.. a robust mental health and diversion/education programs for those at risk would be much more beneficial and not controversial. The minister for children should be focussing on that.

07-07-2020 6:24pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

those services might actually placate the need for these services.

It is concerning absolutely alarming that his first issue in the hot seat is a completely abhorrent agenda to allow the (Imo) mutilation of children with drugs and potentially surgery.

There is a lot of evidence coming forward that many regret transitioning or that kids are wanting to transition to fit in. Ill try dig it up but I remember reading a shocking article (and it was in a legit news source before the pitchforks come out) about a guidance counsellor in a school noticing that one child on the autistic spectrum transitioned and suddenly many of the others who would have been 'outsiders' and on the ASD started doing the same.

It's only a legal change, not medical...

Eric Cartman · 07-07-2020 6:25pm

Gruffalox wrote: »

Anyone can check my post history to see how I feel about this whole issue with kids and medicalisation - ie completely against - but before people say stuff abot this read about it, it is about changing gender on legal documents. It is NOT about surgery or hormones or pubertal blockers.

There is plenty of scope to lose the head about stuff that is going on re experimental chemicals being used on children to delay puberty or worse still provide cross sex hormones. But this is not what this is about.
I disagree with it. I think it messes with young people's heads before they are capable of making such big decisions. I think it will open up issues like what to do in single sex spaces for under 16s. I wonder why it is necessary. How easy to reverse? Etc etc. But these are all different issues to medicalisation of children.

But what is it about. Can somebody explain what exactly the minister wants to allow and why its his top priority ?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 07-07-2020 6:28pm

Calhoun wrote: »

It had to happen eventually, following international norms of targeting kids. The end goal will be getting it to 12/13 year olds before puberty kicks in.

The parental consent and GP consent won't last to long either.

There is an independent article but it's behind a paywall.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

A few Irish doctors in relevant fields (endocrinology and psychiatry) raised concerns about it but those concerns were apparently suppressed:

A number of doctors have claimed a service under which adolescents with gender dysphoria can be given puberty-suppressing hormone blockers is "unsafe" and must be immediately stopped, but their concerns were suppressed.

...

The doctors who raised concerns are consultant endocrinologist Professor Donal O'Shea and consultant psychiatrists Dr Paul Moran and Dr Ian Schneider. All three are attached to the adult national gender service at St Columcille's Hospital in Loughlinstown, Dublin, which deals with adult referrals, including children previously treated at Crumlin.

News of their concerns comes days after it emerged a lawsuit was being taken by a former nurse, a parent, and a former patient against the trust in the London High Court. The action is challenging the clinic's practice of prescribing hormone blockers and cross-sex hormones to children under the age of 18.

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/health/doctors-in-row-with-hse-over-claims-childrens-transgender-care-is-unsafe-38920159.html

drunkmonkey · 07-07-2020 6:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's only a legal change, not medical...

We can't have a spliff as we'll all be shooting heroin by Thursday, why do gateways apply to some and not others. It's a step in wrong direction.

07-07-2020 6:29pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Has that absolute geebag John Connors been triggered yet?

Was ranting and raving away a couple of days ago anyway.

Dravokivich · 07-07-2020 6:29pm

paw patrol wrote: »

i hope you're still in your trolling phase.:eek:

yes, because it couldn't be true :rolleyes:

the Liberal still haven't cited their sources for the riot they covered on Henry Street, that everyone on Henry Street was unaware of.

suicide_circus · 07-07-2020 6:30pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

But what is it about. Can somebody explain what exactly the minister wants to allow and why its his top priority ?

Its his first move because its a pressing issue for the people who voted for him presumably

Eric Cartman · 07-07-2020 6:31pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Its his first move because its a pressing issue for the people who voted for him presumably

I hope you're wrong or I now have a lot lower opinions of green voters.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 07-07-2020 6:34pm

keano_afc wrote: »

What surprises me is that people are genuinely gullible enough to believe that this is as far as this ideology will go.

The UK is usually a good barometer of whats coming down the line here. And trans activism is out of control over there.

https://quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

I’d disagree. We’re actually worse over here. The UK has been more vigilant than other countries in upholding sex-based rights (Scotland is trying its best to remove them though). And it’s led to this weird anti-Brit sentiment amongst certain Irish transgender rights activists (who I won’t be naming - don’t want to give them the oxygen of publicity). It’s kind of tying nationalism to apparent progressiveness. It’s really ugly.

If you want to see a country gone completely loo la, check out Canada.

Jurgen Klopp · 07-07-2020 6:35pm

Here's what I want to know.

If 16 and 17 year olds only needed a GP to sign off for medical changes are the HSE going to full cover any legal costs should the child regret it and take a case?

As currently the UK had its first case of a person who regretted being given hormone blockers under 18 and is now suing the NHS claiming they should have known better than to give something so life changing to someone under 18

If I was a GP I most certainly would be referring on and not taking the risk unless they were the legal age of contract at 18

weldoninhio · 07-07-2020 6:35pm

keano_afc wrote: »

What surprises me is that people are genuinely gullible enough to believe that this is as far as this ideology will go.

The UK is usually a good barometer of whats coming down the line here. And trans activism is out of control over there.

https://quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

How long until we have some of these cases?? Country will be screwed in 20 or so years. Peoples lives ruined because weird adults convinced them they were a girl/boy when they were the opposite.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/01/woman-sue-nhs-rushed-gender-reassignment-treatment-12330020/

Muscles Schultz · 07-07-2020 6:37pm

keano_afc wrote: »

What surprises me is that people are genuinely gullible enough to believe that this is as far as this ideology will go.

The UK is usually a good barometer of whats coming down the line here. And trans activism is out of control over there.

https://quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

Dangerous times. We are entering the age of peak deviancy

Dravokivich · 07-07-2020 6:39pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I hope you're wrong or I now have a lot lower opinions of green voters.

He probably is wrong. He got his vote on the back of the extensive amount of community work he'd been doing around the d15 area over the last number of years.

Eric Cartman · 07-07-2020 6:41pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

He probably is wrong. He got his vote on the back of the extensive amount of community work he'd been doing around the d15 area over the last number of years.

and I hope those people are equally outraged that this is what he's decided to do with that vote.

07-07-2020 6:43pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We can't have a spliff as we'll all be shooting heroin by Thursday, why do gateways apply to some and not others. It's a step in wrong direction.

That is your opinion and most likely because you have strong views on transgender people more than anything else.

Gruffalux · 07-07-2020 6:44pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Its his first move because its a pressing issue for the people who voted for him presumably

TBH I don't think it's a first move. The tide is turning on what has been happening with children under the so-called affirmation model. Not only medically turning but turning in the courts. There will be class actions in the UK and this may impact also re the 100 plus Irish children who have been sent to the UK.

I think it is just a hyper liberal credentials type exercise. Look at groovy us, as progressive as Iceland or Denmark etc. Ahead of the posse. A kind of legislative virtue signalling. Window dressing. It may have more impact than he imagines, however, and not just be a slip of paper, as in the UK young people have begun to file actions regarding their private sex based spaces being made available to members of the opposite sex eg in schools.

senordingdong · 07-07-2020 6:49pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

He probably is wrong. He got his vote on the back of the extensive amount of community work he'd been doing around the d15 area over the last number of years.

No, as has been said several times in the thread, this bill has been in the works for some time, o gorman has simply inherited it from Regina doherty

suicide_circus · 07-07-2020 6:58pm

senordingdong wrote: »

No, as has been said several times in the thread, this bill has been in the works for some time, o gorman has simply inherited it from Regina doherty

so this simply happened to be the first thing on the top of his pile of work left over from the last government? nah, politics dosnt work like that

c.p.w.g.w · 07-07-2020 7:10pm

If your an adult work away...

If your not, then I have serious concerns... children are easily manipulated

Children can't vote or drink as they aren't mature enough

If a male wants to wear a dress and make up lets them...

We have been told for years that we should not pigeon hole people yet this is exactly what the trans movement is doing...

Wear a dress you a girl
Sexually attracted to a girl...then your a boy...

The trans movement is worrying many folks in the gay world...

If as an adult you want to change your gender work a way...

Calhoun · 07-07-2020 7:57pm

Be interesting to see how he weathers the storm on the earlier allegations going forward, not dying down yet and some vocal support from Dan Brown is just bringing more focus on it.

One eyed Jack · 07-07-2020 7:57pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

so this simply happened to be the first thing on the top of his pile of work left over from the last government? nah, politics dosnt work like that

Politics works exactly like that :pac:

Basically the legislation which has been in Irish law since 2015 is reviewed every two years. The current review was under the tenure of Regina Doherty and Katherine Zappone who was the Minister for Children then also supported doing away with the impediment to children under 16 being recognised in law as their preferred gender. This latest crack at O’ Gorman is nothing more than shìt stirring, again.

There’s nothing to suggest btw he isn’t also being landed with all the other stuff which relates to children’s welfare and well-being such as the latest ESRI report regarding child poverty and the ongoing investigations into historical child abuse in many of the countries organisations, all that sort of stuff and this on top of all that. It’s far from just “the first thing on top of his pile”.

suicide_circus · 07-07-2020 8:01pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Politics works exactly like that :pac:

Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.

One eyed Jack · 07-07-2020 8:06pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.

What’s spin is your attempt to imply this was ever “the first thing on top of his pile left over from the last Government”. He did inherit it from the last Government, but there isn’t a pile, it’s just one of a huge list of things people have been lobbying for, as well as everything else he’s inherited.

There would be nothing for the media to report if they couldn’t insinuate nefarious shìte and let their readership “draw its own conclusions”.

suicide_circus · 07-07-2020 8:08pm

Ok Jack

ronivek · 07-07-2020 8:14pm

Who is the original source for this story I wonder? Have we had similar stories from other ministers about policy?

Assetbacked · 07-07-2020 10:54pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.

Bills which were a priority for one department get delayed around an election and may not go ahead. It sometimes takes lobbying to get bills through even with favourable department heads but a new government can kill a piece of legislation.

We have a lot of quangos in Ireland and I see groups like Irish Council for Civil Liberties and Irish Refugee Council sucking on the teets of the public purse to write biased reports in order to justify their own existence. The irony of these "minority" groups having the luxury of writing academic digressions of reports and being able to get paid by the State to do it shows how privileged they are which sort of renders their cause obsolete. A recession potentially could hurt government funding and squeeze out these lecherous groups, otherwise I just don't see how we get rid of them as they are so embedded in the system.

katiek102010 · 07-07-2020 11:04pm

I personally know a child of 13 who wanted this.

School backed the child who was born female let them change their name, dress in male uniform etc.

Thankfully child's father refused to allow hormonal medication to slow puberty. Mum and child were pushing for it.

2 years later child has now decided they want to be female again and believes that they are gay and she herself states that she was very confused.

Puberty is an extremely confusing time for teens with hormonal surges etc.

If this is to be brought in I firmly believe permenant medical procedures should not be performed until adulthood

cannotlogin · 07-07-2020 11:40pm

I really think allowing minors make decisions like this is wrong. Let them dress how the like, wear their hair how they like, even names and pronouns etc but no hormones or surgery.

Growing up for reasons I can't explain the puberty phase scared me. I didn't want breasts, had rows over wearing bras, hated periods, the emergence of hair grossed me out hugely, I was a total tomboy, wouldn't wear dresses or anything that would show my body, hated make up, heels etc. Absolutely everything that had any thing to do with being female, I wanted nothing to do with. Fully suspect it was just the type of child i was & if I had been a boy, the voice change, hormones etc would have freaked me out too.

There are a lot of changes in the early teens that are unwelcome & not every child is comfortable but it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't in the right body.

Very feminine straight woman today, but who knows if today's mindset would have seen someone recommend transitioning or hormone treatment..scary thought.

Grudaire · 07-07-2020 11:50pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.

Loving the argument that O'Gorman is actually the most efficient minister ever, single handedly drafting legislation himself in the first week in office ðŸ˜‚

c.p.w.g.w · 07-07-2020 11:53pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

I personally know a child of 13 who wanted this.

School backed the child who was born female let them change their name, dress in male uniform etc.

Thankfully child's father refused to allow hormonal medication to slow puberty. Mum and child were pushing for it.

2 years later child has now decided they want to be female again and believes that they are gay and she herself states that she was very confused.

Puberty is an extremely confusing time for teens with hormonal surges etc.

If this is to be brought in I firmly believe permenant medical procedures should not be performed until adulthood

Your example is perfect to illustrate why children should not have the right to make these massive decisions...

The parents were very good to allow her dress how she felt comfortable and it's a very common sense approach... thankfully the father dug his heels in

suicide_circus · 08-07-2020 12:06am

Grudaire wrote: »

Loving the argument that O'Gorman is actually the most efficient minister ever, single handedly drafting legislation himself in the first week in office &#55357;&#56834;

Strawman, no one said this.

Bannasidhe · 08-07-2020 12:08am

cannotlogin wrote: »

I really think allowing minors make decisions like this is wrong. Let them dress how the like, wear their hair how they like, even names and pronouns etc but no hormones or surgery.

Which is what is being proposed. Allowing an f to be changed to an m or an m to an f on official documents.

Nothing else.

sabat · 08-07-2020 12:26am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which is what is being proposed. Allowing an f to be changed to an m or an m to an f on official documents.

Nothing else.

Yes, yes, that's all this is. A mere typographical trifle. I'm amazed we even needed to change the law at all.

Do you really think you've made a good point with that post? That people are going to read it and say "well that's ok then, I'm convinced?" What utter disingenuous gibberish you post.

katiek102010 · 08-07-2020 1:02am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which is what is being proposed. Allowing an f to be changed to an m or an m to an f on official documents.

Nothing else.

This makes zero sense to me.

Sex is a biological fact and determined by DNA.

Gender is a social construct

Legal documents refer to sex and biological fact not gender, therefore should not be changed

08-07-2020 7:40am

sabat wrote: »

Yes, yes, that's all this is. A mere typographical trifle. I'm amazed we even needed to change the law at all.

Do you really think you've made a good point with that post? That people are going to read it and say "well that's ok then, I'm convinced?" What utter disingenuous gibberish you post.

People are claiming it's some medical treatment etc. It's not, it's an early change and easily reversible. The only people who seem really upset are those who have a thing against transgender people or an obsession with Roderic.

_Brian · 08-07-2020 7:46am

I suppose my question is why do we care ??

What odds to me what people outside my family are doing ??

Can someone explain what damage it does to me, my family or society to give someone this option ??

Gruffalux · 08-07-2020 8:15am

_Brian wrote: »

I suppose my question is why do we care ??

What odds to me what people outside my family are doing ??

Can someone explain what damage it does to me, my family or society to give someone this option ??

In this case I do not personally think there can be a major concern from a safe guarding perspective as it is not self ID, it is children, and a child who goes to the lengths of persuading parents and doctors that they need this change is not messing about or just going into the other sexes spaces for the craic or mischief. There has to be a considerable level of mental and emotional distress at the heart of a situation whereby a boy is having themselves re registered as a girl or vice versa. And that is really sad. It must be an awful state to be in.

If I were to object it would be 1) that the affirmation model, be it legal or medical, may not in the long run be the most beneficial way to deal with this affliction for children. Certainly not medical intervention until the brain matures. Time will tell. Legal identification may reinforce psychic distress and neurosis rather than constructively address it in what we will find in the future to be more useful methods. I think the whole area should be much more vigorously investigated scientifically with absolutely no constraint from political correctness. We need to know if something is going on wrt to environmental chemicals, hormonal imbalance, prenatal effects, social influence, and real sociological issues like the influence of familial abuse, self harm ideation, familial homophobia, depression and autism etc etc. We need a LOT of research. With no ideological activists determining what is acceptable as truth or not.

And my second objection would be on the reason versus obscurantism ground - this act would allow a child to register themselves as having changed gender. I do not know how this affects legal documents that describe reality such as Birth Certs. If the child remains documented as their natal sex on a Birth Cert that is fine, as a change of SEX cannot happen in reality. It is not biologically possible. If GRC could change a legal document stating a fact then it is a bad precedent. A Gender Recognition Cert must record simply the fact that a child has IDENTIFIED as a different GENDER not that they have changed sex.

drunkmonkey · 08-07-2020 8:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

The only people who seem really upset are those who have a thing against transgender people or an obsession with Roderic.

Transgender is a wrong word initself, you can't transfer from one sex to the other, it's not possible, has never happened, will never happen. Not once have we been shown the regret a lot of people have about trying to undo the damage trying to achieve the impossible has had on people.
If mature adults want to believe they are the opposite sex that's fine go live your life but don't try and force soceity to accept the impossible as reality and especially don't try and do it to young kids or any way try to normalise the dilusion that you can change your sex to minors.

You say it's people who hate transgenders or don't like Roderick O'Gorman. Your so far wide off the mark there it's unbelievable.
I don't know how many times this has to be repeated but it has nothing to do with O'Gormans sex if this was a straight man they would have already been forced to resign.
The Green party now have a predicament, they can not be seen cozying up to Tatchell again in public.

I believe O'Gorman lied in his response the other day, he's a well educated man, not for one second am I buying he knew nothing about Tatchelles past or writings, that was a bare faced lie to the public in my opinion.
Hiding behind the rainbow flag was disgraceful, he truly belives he's only being called out because he's Gay, he's been called out because of his links to Tatchell and now as he's trying to implement something people quite rightly believe is wrong on so many levels, his interests don't appear to be child positive to a lot of parents, aunts, uncles and people who really care about children, the homophobes as your call them.

O'Gorman has been given the wrong brief but I do believe the portfolio is wrong in the first place. Children should fall under the department of Health or Education. If his time as Minister for Children is going to be spent pursuing his own agenda and pandering to trans lobby groups rather than that hoped for by the majority of parents his time will be short lived as a minister.

I'd way prefer to see Eamon Ryan as the children's minister as he has a way better understanding of the struggles parents go through and before you say it's that's because he's a parent who's faced challenges in his own life. O'Gorman has no skin in the game, he'll never truly understand how frustrated and lost parents all over the country feel.

Dravokivich · 08-07-2020 8:33am

senordingdong wrote: »

No, as has been said several times in the thread, this bill has been in the works for some time, o gorman has simply inherited it from Regina doherty

Yes and what did I say?

cannotlogin · 08-07-2020 8:40am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which is what is being proposed. Allowing an f to be changed to an m or an m to an f on official documents.

Nothing else.

Offical documents is the important thing here. The child has no basis for doing so whole they are a minor. Like with all important decisions in life, they should have to wait until they are 18 and at least have some proper capacity to make these decision.

Btw, I don't really care what adults to do...hormones, surgery, transition etc. None of my business but children do not have the mental capacity to process their choices properly so should have to wait.

Annasopra · 08-07-2020 8:45am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Transgender is a wrong word initself, you can't transfer from one sex to the other, it's not possible, has never happened, will never happen. Not once have we been shown the regret a lot of people have about trying to undo the damage trying to achieve the impossible has had on people.
If mature adults want to believe they are the opposite sex that's fine go live your life but don't try and force soceity to accept the impossible as reality

So basically you suggest trans people cant and shouldnt have any legal recognition of their status?

More from Roderic O'Gorman (MOD NOTE IN OPENING POST)

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