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More from Roderic O'Gorman (MOD NOTE IN OPENING POST)

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13567…25

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    #62
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    Anyone can check my post history to see how I feel about this whole issue with kids and medicalisation - ie completely against - but before people say stuff abot this read about it, it is about changing gender on legal documents. It is NOT about surgery or hormones or pubertal blockers.

    There is plenty of scope to lose the head about stuff that is going on re experimental chemicals being used on children to delay puberty or worse still provide cross sex hormones. But this is not what this is about.
    I disagree with it. I think it messes with young people's heads before they are capable of making such big decisions. I think it will open up issues like what to do in single sex spaces for under 16s. I wonder why it is necessary. How easy to reverse? Etc etc. But these are all different issues to medicalisation of children.

    But what is it about. Can somebody explain what exactly the minister wants to allow and why its his top priority ?


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    #63
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Calhoun wrote: »
    It had to happen eventually, following international norms of targeting kids. The end goal will be getting it to 12/13 year olds before puberty kicks in.

    The parental consent and GP consent won't last to long either.

    There is an independent article but it's behind a paywall.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/new-childrens-minister-to-make-it-easier-for-under-16s-to-change-their-gender-39346464.html

    A few Irish doctors in relevant fields (endocrinology and psychiatry) raised concerns about it but those concerns were apparently suppressed:
    A number of doctors have claimed a service under which adolescents with gender dysphoria can be given puberty-suppressing hormone blockers is "unsafe" and must be immediately stopped, but their concerns were suppressed.

    ...

    The doctors who raised concerns are consultant endocrinologist Professor Donal O'Shea and consultant psychiatrists Dr Paul Moran and Dr Ian Schneider. All three are attached to the adult national gender service at St Columcille's Hospital in Loughlinstown, Dublin, which deals with adult referrals, including children previously treated at Crumlin.

    News of their concerns comes days after it emerged a lawsuit was being taken by a former nurse, a parent, and a former patient against the trust in the London High Court. The action is challenging the clinic's practice of prescribing hormone blockers and cross-sex hormones to children under the age of 18.

    https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/health/doctors-in-row-with-hse-over-claims-childrens-transgender-care-is-unsafe-38920159.html


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    #64
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's only a legal change, not medical...

    We can't have a spliff as we'll all be shooting heroin by Thursday, why do gateways apply to some and not others. It's a step in wrong direction.


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Has that absolute geebag John Connors been triggered yet?

    Was ranting and raving away a couple of days ago anyway.


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    #66
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    paw patrol wrote: »
    i hope you're still in your trolling phase.:eek:



    yes, because it couldn't be true :rolleyes:

    the Liberal still haven't cited their sources for the riot they covered on Henry Street, that everyone on Henry Street was unaware of.


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    #67
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    But what is it about. Can somebody explain what exactly the minister wants to allow and why its his top priority ?
    Its his first move because its a pressing issue for the people who voted for him presumably


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    #68
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Its his first move because its a pressing issue for the people who voted for him presumably

    I hope you're wrong or I now have a lot lower opinions of green voters.


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    #69
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    keano_afc wrote: »
    What surprises me is that people are genuinely gullible enough to believe that this is as far as this ideology will go.

    The UK is usually a good barometer of whats coming down the line here. And trans activism is out of control over there.

    https://quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

    I’d disagree. We’re actually worse over here. The UK has been more vigilant than other countries in upholding sex-based rights (Scotland is trying its best to remove them though). And it’s led to this weird anti-Brit sentiment amongst certain Irish transgender rights activists (who I won’t be naming - don’t want to give them the oxygen of publicity). It’s kind of tying nationalism to apparent progressiveness. It’s really ugly.

    If you want to see a country gone completely loo la, check out Canada.


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    #70
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    Here's what I want to know.

    If 16 and 17 year olds only needed a GP to sign off for medical changes are the HSE going to full cover any legal costs should the child regret it and take a case?

    As currently the UK had its first case of a person who regretted being given hormone blockers under 18 and is now suing the NHS claiming they should have known better than to give something so life changing to someone under 18

    If I was a GP I most certainly would be referring on and not taking the risk unless they were the legal age of contract at 18


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    #71
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    keano_afc wrote: »
    What surprises me is that people are genuinely gullible enough to believe that this is as far as this ideology will go.

    The UK is usually a good barometer of whats coming down the line here. And trans activism is out of control over there.

    https://quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

    How long until we have some of these cases?? Country will be screwed in 20 or so years. Peoples lives ruined because weird adults convinced them they were a girl/boy when they were the opposite.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/01/woman-sue-nhs-rushed-gender-reassignment-treatment-12330020/


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    #72
    Muscles Schultz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 302 ✭✭Muscles Schultz


    keano_afc wrote: »
    What surprises me is that people are genuinely gullible enough to believe that this is as far as this ideology will go.

    The UK is usually a good barometer of whats coming down the line here. And trans activism is out of control over there.

    https://quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

    Dangerous times. We are entering the age of peak deviancy


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    #73
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I hope you're wrong or I now have a lot lower opinions of green voters.

    He probably is wrong. He got his vote on the back of the extensive amount of community work he'd been doing around the d15 area over the last number of years.


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    #74
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    He probably is wrong. He got his vote on the back of the extensive amount of community work he'd been doing around the d15 area over the last number of years.

    and I hope those people are equally outraged that this is what he's decided to do with that vote.


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    #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    We can't have a spliff as we'll all be shooting heroin by Thursday, why do gateways apply to some and not others. It's a step in wrong direction.

    That is your opinion and most likely because you have strong views on transgender people more than anything else.


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    #76
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Its his first move because its a pressing issue for the people who voted for him presumably

    TBH I don't think it's a first move. The tide is turning on what has been happening with children under the so-called affirmation model. Not only medically turning but turning in the courts. There will be class actions in the UK and this may impact also re the 100 plus Irish children who have been sent to the UK.

    I think it is just a hyper liberal credentials type exercise. Look at groovy us, as progressive as Iceland or Denmark etc. Ahead of the posse. A kind of legislative virtue signalling. Window dressing. It may have more impact than he imagines, however, and not just be a slip of paper, as in the UK young people have begun to file actions regarding their private sex based spaces being made available to members of the opposite sex eg in schools.


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    #77
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    He probably is wrong. He got his vote on the back of the extensive amount of community work he'd been doing around the d15 area over the last number of years.

    No, as has been said several times in the thread, this bill has been in the works for some time, o gorman has simply inherited it from Regina doherty


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    #78
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    senordingdong wrote: »
    No, as has been said several times in the thread, this bill has been in the works for some time, o gorman has simply inherited it from Regina doherty

    so this simply happened to be the first thing on the top of his pile of work left over from the last government? nah, politics dosnt work like that


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    #79
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    If your an adult work away...

    If your not, then I have serious concerns... children are easily manipulated

    Children can't vote or drink as they aren't mature enough

    If a male wants to wear a dress and make up lets them...

    We have been told for years that we should not pigeon hole people yet this is exactly what the trans movement is doing...

    Wear a dress you a girl
    Sexually attracted to a girl...then your a boy...

    The trans movement is worrying many folks in the gay world...

    If as an adult you want to change your gender work a way...


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    #80
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Be interesting to see how he weathers the storm on the earlier allegations going forward, not dying down yet and some vocal support from Dan Brown is just bringing more focus on it.


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    #81
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so this simply happened to be the first thing on the top of his pile of work left over from the last government? nah, politics dosnt work like that


    Politics works exactly like that :pac:

    Basically the legislation which has been in Irish law since 2015 is reviewed every two years. The current review was under the tenure of Regina Doherty and Katherine Zappone who was the Minister for Children then also supported doing away with the impediment to children under 16 being recognised in law as their preferred gender. This latest crack at O’ Gorman is nothing more than shìt stirring, again.

    There’s nothing to suggest btw he isn’t also being landed with all the other stuff which relates to children’s welfare and well-being such as the latest ESRI report regarding child poverty and the ongoing investigations into historical child abuse in many of the countries organisations, all that sort of stuff and this on top of all that. It’s far from just “the first thing on top of his pile”.


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    #82
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Politics works exactly like that :pac:
    Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.


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    #83
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.


    What’s spin is your attempt to imply this was ever “the first thing on top of his pile left over from the last Government”. He did inherit it from the last Government, but there isn’t a pile, it’s just one of a huge list of things people have been lobbying for, as well as everything else he’s inherited.

    There would be nothing for the media to report if they couldn’t insinuate nefarious shìte and let their readership “draw its own conclusions”.


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    #84
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Ok Jack


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    #85
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Who is the original source for this story I wonder? Have we had similar stories from other ministers about policy?


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    #86
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.

    Bills which were a priority for one department get delayed around an election and may not go ahead. It sometimes takes lobbying to get bills through even with favourable department heads but a new government can kill a piece of legislation.

    We have a lot of quangos in Ireland and I see groups like Irish Council for Civil Liberties and Irish Refugee Council sucking on the teets of the public purse to write biased reports in order to justify their own existence. The irony of these "minority" groups having the luxury of writing academic digressions of reports and being able to get paid by the State to do it shows how privileged they are which sort of renders their cause obsolete. A recession potentially could hurt government funding and squeeze out these lecherous groups, otherwise I just don't see how we get rid of them as they are so embedded in the system.


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    #87
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    I personally know a child of 13 who wanted this.

    School backed the child who was born female let them change their name, dress in male uniform etc.

    Thankfully child's father refused to allow hormonal medication to slow puberty. Mum and child were pushing for it.

    2 years later child has now decided they want to be female again and believes that they are gay and she herself states that she was very confused.

    Puberty is an extremely confusing time for teens with hormonal surges etc.

    If this is to be brought in I firmly believe permenant medical procedures should not be performed until adulthood


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    #88
    cannotlogin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    I really think allowing minors make decisions like this is wrong. Let them dress how the like, wear their hair how they like, even names and pronouns etc but no hormones or surgery.

    Growing up for reasons I can't explain the puberty phase scared me. I didn't want breasts, had rows over wearing bras, hated periods, the emergence of hair grossed me out hugely, I was a total tomboy, wouldn't wear dresses or anything that would show my body, hated make up, heels etc. Absolutely everything that had any thing to do with being female, I wanted nothing to do with. Fully suspect it was just the type of child i was & if I had been a boy, the voice change, hormones etc would have freaked me out too.

    There are a lot of changes in the early teens that are unwelcome & not every child is comfortable but it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't in the right body.

    Very feminine straight woman today, but who knows if today's mindset would have seen someone recommend transitioning or hormone treatment..scary thought.


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    #89
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Wilful naivety, Jack. In politics everything is choreographed, everything is spin.

    Loving the argument that O'Gorman is actually the most efficient minister ever, single handedly drafting legislation himself in the first week in office 😂


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    #90
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    I personally know a child of 13 who wanted this.

    School backed the child who was born female let them change their name, dress in male uniform etc.

    Thankfully child's father refused to allow hormonal medication to slow puberty. Mum and child were pushing for it.

    2 years later child has now decided they want to be female again and believes that they are gay and she herself states that she was very confused.

    Puberty is an extremely confusing time for teens with hormonal surges etc.

    If this is to be brought in I firmly believe permenant medical procedures should not be performed until adulthood

    Your example is perfect to illustrate why children should not have the right to make these massive decisions...

    The parents were very good to allow her dress how she felt comfortable and it's a very common sense approach... thankfully the father dug his heels in


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    #91
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Grudaire wrote: »
    Loving the argument that O'Gorman is actually the most efficient minister ever, single handedly drafting legislation himself in the first week in office ��
    Strawman, no one said this.


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