Corona Virus

a148pro · 07-04-2020 12:00pm

Nah I think that's illegal too, either things are back running again or they're not. Austria talking about some small steps in the next while I think.

skallywag · 07-04-2020 12:56pm

Yeah, some shops are going to open up again soon such as garden centres etc. but schools still closed until mid May earliest. All in all the cases per day is really dropping off though, so the mood about is encouraging.

No problem still getting out for a spin on the bike or a run, but as for real mountainbiking etc. it has been a bit of a grey area, and while it may not be illegal it is definitely something people have been asked to stop doing, with nearly everyone from what I can see respecting it and sticking to the forest paths etc at valley level.

Can you imagine having a fall in the mountains at the moment with the rescue team needing to come to get you, and you then ending up in hospital for surgery on a broken leg etc.? You would be on the receiving end of some dirty looks at best, you might be getting an intentionally low dose of anesthetic at worst.

maddness · 07-04-2020 1:05pm

a148pro wrote: »

Nah I think that's illegal too, either things are back running again or they're not. Austria talking about some small steps in the next while I think.

Love your optimism but all resorts are shut for the remainder of the season.

a148pro · 07-04-2020 10:18pm

So are you allowed cycle apart from mountain biking there? Is there good cycling routes, fire roads trails etc, gravel kind of stuff?

Madness I was thinking hintertux because it is open year round and will open as soon as it's allowed as Ski teams will want to get training. Probably not worth a trip beyond may though, unless you're really having withdrawal symptoms

a148pro · 07-04-2020 10:19pm

To be honest, even next season might be optimistic for irish skiers

skallywag · 08-04-2020 11:49am

a148pro wrote: »

So are you allowed cycle apart from mountain biking there? Is there good cycling routes, fire roads trails etc, gravel kind of stuff?

Yeah, as long as you stick to asphalt roads in the mountains you should be OK. At valley level you can go into forests etc. There are a lot of very good options for cycling around alright.

skallywag · 11-04-2020 12:31pm

Seems 19% of the population in St.Anton & Ischgl regions have been very likely infected:

https://www.vol.at/quarantaene-ueber-paznaun-und-st-anton-bis-26-april/6584864

trashcan · 17-04-2020 1:04pm

a148pro wrote: »

To be honest, even next season might be optimistic for irish skiers

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you might be right.

skallywag · 17-04-2020 1:48pm

The places I would usually stay at in Ischgl and Anton are both run by an old lady (as of course are quite a lot of the pensions, appartments, etc.).

I have been thinking of them lately, I really hope that make it through it, considering that 1 in 5 are infected in these regions.

trashcan · 18-04-2020 12:43pm

skallywag wrote: »

The places I would usually stay at in Ischgl and Anton are both run by an old lady (as of course are quite a lot of the pensions, appartments, etc.).

I have been thinking of them lately, I really hope that make it through it, considering that 1 in 5 are infected in these regions.

The hotel we stayed in in Westendorf has had to close, and the owner ended up in hospital ( he seems to be on the mend thankfully. ) I've been thinking about them too. Their summer tourist season is almost certainly wiped out, I really hope they can make it through. Have been going to the village since 2009 and it would be awful if it wipes a lot of the hotels and restaurants out.

a148pro · 19-04-2020 10:07am

Hopefully the domestic austrian summer season might have some life in it. I imagine i'll be scrambling for any viable foreign holiday, if austria opens up a bit, there's a flight and we're allowed travel I'll be there!

Hard to know what will happen though. You would think renting a holiday home and cooking for yourself might be viable relatively early, or hotels opening but without restaurants or Swimming pools? Room service for all food and then out into the meadows?

Very hard to say, at least austria have been relaxing some stuff early. If one country manages to do something relatively unscathed I can see others tentatively following suit. In that sense we're lucky, as we started relatively late in europe we managed to get ahead of the virus and can now watch what other countries do while we're about two to three weeks behind them

The other thing about Austrians is they're savers, I imagine a lot of those family run businesses have at least some cash in reserve to keep them going until things improve

Donie75 · 20-04-2020 2:12pm

Has anyone been in contact with accommodation providers in Austria or other European ski areas?
I organise a trip for a gang every year and I'm not keen on putting down a deposit in case we can't travel or there are other limitations.
I might email them and see if they will hold them for us until later in the year without a deposit.

a148pro · 22-04-2020 9:47pm

Personally I wouldn't book anything, way too much up in the air at the moment. However, if they're willing to give you free cancellation probably nothing to lose.

a148pro · 22-04-2020 9:48pm

This really is quite an achievement, still making the headlines in national papers around the world:-

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/class-action-lawsuit-launched-over-covid-19-ski-resort-1.4235393

skallywag · 23-04-2020 7:23am

It sure is.

It will be interesting to see what class of punishment is doled out by the Austrian authorities when the dust settles.

trashcan · 23-04-2020 9:56am

Donie75 wrote: »

Has anyone been in contact with accommodation providers in Austria or other European ski areas?
I organise a trip for a gang every year and I'm not keen on putting down a deposit in case we can't travel or there are other limitations.
I might email them and see if they will hold them for us until later in the year without a deposit.

Think you'd be crazy to book anything now. Plenty of time to look at it in the autumn Id have thought. We should know a good deal more then.

skallywag · 23-04-2020 10:51am

Considering the circumstances though I would say that a few places might be willing to take bookings at the moment without the usual deposit? So maybe no harm in asking.

@a148pro, you were asking about the Austrian summer season. I would also be somewhat optimistic here, as Austria is now gradually opening up again, in that from May 1st you can meet friends, from May 15th restaurants are going to open, MTB and swimming in rivers and lakes is allowed again, etc. Of course if that second wave comes it could change all of this, but based on what we know today things are not looking so bad I would think.

Austria never had the 2Km rule either, which is really great, I think that that would be the toughest part of it all, for me at least.

Have you ever been to the likes of Anton or Ischgl in the summer time? They can be really nice, and the contrast to how it looks in the winter is amazing. Great options for cycling, MTB, hiking etc. It is also much cheaper than in the winter season.

listermint · 25-04-2020 10:11am

a148pro wrote: »

This really is quite an achievement, still making the headlines in national papers around the world:-

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/class-action-lawsuit-launched-over-covid-19-ski-resort-1.4235393

Amazing. This thread was started middle of February and people were told full on to stay home. But sure look ... I booked my trip I won't be wasting my money attitude was prevalent. People simply weren't bothered and they want to lay blame elsewhere. Ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1253949520729329666?s=20

Including various posters in here who moved trips from Italy to Austria. Absolutely blameless ......

skallywag · 25-04-2020 12:52pm

To be fair, on the day that the guy in question here traveled there were just 10 reported cases in all of Austria, and there were no warnings in place, that I know of at least, saying that Austria should be avoided.

That said though, the situation was clearly going out of control in Northern Italy at the same time (there were more than 1000 cases at this time and rising at a shocking rate). Anyone who is reasonably familiar with skiing in this part of Europe will know that there is a lot of 'ski traffic' let's say between this part of Austria and Northern Italy. It runs both ways too, i.e. many Austrians go to North Italy to ski, while many Italians also come to this part of Austria for the same reason. Hence it would not be hard to deduce that if North Italy is having an issue then it will not be long before it spills over into Austria.

I remember chatting about this with a friend here around about this time, and we would have been wary of heading into Apres Ski bars at the time, because of this very reason.

That said, unless you are have this level of familiarity with the region it might be possible to fall into the trap that 'Italy is where the problem is and I am going to Austria'. There is quite a distance between them, and it will take you 5-6 hours to drive from point A to point B.

All in all though, I firmly believe that the likes of Anton and Ischgl seriously dropped the ball here. They would have been completely aware of the inherent ski links between Italy and Austria, and really should have had a closer eye on things. It is most likely a case of just putting your head in the sand and hoping it will just go away or not darken your door, as the prospect of shutting down operations is something that nobody, at that time, was even seriously considering.

listermint · 25-04-2020 5:09pm

There were folks in here engaged in actively ignoring the warnings the over riding thing for them was fun. And we're still blaming the resort's.

Ok.

Personal responsibility is gone these days. Absolutely null.

skallywag · 25-04-2020 5:11pm

listermint wrote: »

And we're still blaming the resort's.

Yes.

The word on the ground in Austria is that they really messed up. They certainly played a major role in this.

No question that personal responsibility comes into play, I'm completely with you. But Ischgl should have acted before it did and they most certainly are guilty of willfully putting lives at risk, in my opinion anyway.

Let's see what the courts decide when this is all blown over.

listermint · 25-04-2020 7:04pm

skallywag wrote: »

Yes.

The word on the ground in Austria is that they really messed up. They certainly played a major role in this.

No question that personal responsibility comes into play, I'm completely with you. But Ischgl should have acted before it did and they most certainly are guilty of willfully putting lives at risk, in my opinion anyway.

Let's see what the courts decide when this is all blown over.

Well we will disagree entirely then.

I think we should sue the skiers for bringing it back to our health system.

Exactly the same premise.

skallywag · 25-04-2020 7:07pm

listermint wrote: »

I think we should sue the skiers for bringing it back to our health system..

There was no official evidence or advice being issued at the end of February that going to Austria carried any significant risk.

Hindsight is always a great thing, but that's the truth.

a148pro · 25-04-2020 11:26pm

skallywag wrote: »

@a148pro, you were asking about the Austrian summer season. I would also be somewhat optimistic here, as Austria is now gradually opening up again, in that from May 1st you can meet friends, from May 15th restaurants are going to open, MTB and swimming in rivers and lakes is allowed again, etc. Of course if that second wave comes it could change all of this, but based on what we know today things are not looking so bad I would think.

Austria never had the 2Km rule either, which is really great, I think that that would be the toughest part of it all, for me at least.

Have you ever been to the likes of Anton or Ischgl in the summer time? They can be really nice, and the contrast to how it looks in the winter is amazing. Great options for cycling, MTB, hiking etc. It is also much cheaper than in the winter season.

Couple of posters on here strongly recommended it, I looked at kinderhotels for Summer and they were more or less same price as Winter, apartments would probably be a lot cheaper.

At moment the primary question is will we be able to get out of Ireland. Need a sun holiday as preference but would go for mountains if it wasn't on offer. There's also the small matter of the wallet too, not sure if we'll be able to afford something.

Lets see.

Incidently how are they going to open restaurants?

skallywag · 26-04-2020 12:40pm

a148pro wrote: »

Incidently how are they going to open restaurants?

That is a very good question, and I am not really sure how it is going to work.

It seems that the wearing of masks is going to be compulsory, which is a bit at odds with operating a restaurant?! Also, how is the serving going to work? Is the waiter going to bring your meal to a 'drop-off table' in the corner, and you pick it up then when they are gone, etc.?

I guess that they will only be able to cater for a far smaller number of people as well, which may mean that many simply will not be able to afford to open at all.

Concerning prices, the self catering apartments are certainly considerably cheaper in the summer. It is really cool hiking/biking on a mountain which you have skied on in the winter, it looks like a different universe completely.

maddness · 26-04-2020 3:04pm

listermint wrote: »

Well we will disagree entirely then.

I think we should sue the skiers for bringing it back to our health system.

Exactly the same premise.

So should we sue everyone who landed in Ireland that week from all over the world too? Or the few thousand Italian rugby fans that came over for a weekend?

skallywag · 20-05-2020 11:43am

Things getting more and more back to the norm in Austria pubs open from last Friday, kids back at school as well this week, and the borders beginning to open again. It's funny seeing it all return to normal, even after just a few days it is hard to imagine the restrictions that were in place just a few days ago, with the army on closed border crossings, etc. Let's see now how it all pans out ...

blue note · 20-05-2020 12:08pm

Here's hoping they are returned to normal enough to have the slopes open in January! &#55357;&#56911;

skallywag · 20-05-2020 4:39pm

Austria is using a 1m rule for distancing, so that is currently rolled out in schools, pubs, etc.

Concerning skiing though, I cannot imagine how it is going to work unless distancing is done away with completely? Thinking mainly of queuing for lifts and sitting on the lifts ...

Rew · 26-06-2020 7:26pm

Ischgl back in the virus news

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/locals-at-austrian-ski-resort-blamed-for-covid-19-spread-show-high-rate-of-antibodies-1.4288560

daithi7 · 09-07-2020 10:30am

Rew wrote: »

Ischgl back in the virus news

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/locals-at-austrian-ski-resort-blamed-for-covid-19-spread-show-high-rate-of-antibodies-1.4288560

So would this then make Ischgl one of the safer resorts to travel to next winter I wonder?

I.e. with high antibodies in local population and with a lot of stringent practices on social distancing & hygiene, etc in place

Rew · 09-07-2020 11:10am

daithi7 wrote: »

So would this then make Ischgl one of the safer resorts to travel to next winter I wonder?

I.e. with high antibodies in local population and with a lot of stringent practices on social distancing & hygiene, etc in place

Yes if it was just you but the thousands of strangers coming in weekly are going to be an issue.

skallywag · 09-07-2020 12:45pm

daithi7 wrote: »

...and with a lot of stringent practices on social distancing & hygiene, etc in place

I've also been thinking about this. Austria has opened up quite a lot, and is doing well all in all with regards to the virus, but I cannot see how any form of social distancing could be implemented either queuing for or riding on the lifts, without slowing things down to a snail's pace and effectively taking the fun out of it as you are in a queue all day long for the sake of a hand full of runs.

a148pro · 13-07-2020 10:02pm

I'll be honest, I'm worried about our skiing potential for the forseeable

maddness · 15-07-2020 8:39pm

a148pro wrote: »

I'll be honest, I'm worried about our skiing potential for the forseeable

Same, I’d normally have a December trip booked and be planning one for the new year. Realistically if we get to ski this winter it will be a last minute thing.

trashcan · 16-07-2020 5:00pm

I'm possibly bonkers, but I went ahead and booked for next year. Fingers and toes crossed.

maddness · 17-07-2020 8:45am

trashcan wrote: »

I'm possibly bonkers, but I went ahead and booked for next year. Fingers and toes crossed.

Good man/woman yourself. Did you book a package holiday? The reason I ask is I’m sure it would be easy enough to get a refund if for some reason you could not travel.

trashcan · 17-07-2020 4:26pm

maddness wrote: »

Good man/woman yourself. Did you book a package holiday? The reason I ask is I’m sure it would be easy enough to get a refund if for some reason you could not travel.

Yeah, booked with topflight. Paid deposit and the balance is due 12 weeks before departure.

prishtinaboy99 · 09-09-2020 3:45pm

the only fireproof place is Switzerland as they will not close any resorts, soon there are allowing events up to 1,000 people. Obviously Switzerland is expensive but like anywhere you can economize.

skallywag · 09-09-2020 3:52pm

Let's see, Switzerland is currently experiencing a steady rise in numbers.

Ischgl have already made a statement that this year will be dramatically different than usual, with no apres ski at all, and also heavy control on the amount of people allowed into the restaurants at lunchtime etc. My biggest concern is still though is getting onto the mountain. The usual packed gondolas will clearly be gone, as will be the normally massive dense crowds you usually see getting onto the lifts. I cannot see how that will be worked out, apart from a single file queue with 1m between people, snaking back towards the horizon.

blue note · 09-09-2020 4:27pm

It's not workable. You can't social distance in queues, people slide too much in them, the ground is uneven, you go forward a spot and suddenly slide down an extra little bit. People of every ability in the queue and some really struggle to not slide into the person in front.

And if you limit numbers in gondalas and lifts too much you'll have huge queues. Even less of a possibility of social distancing.

I can't see how ski resorts can open up within the recommended guidelines.

skallywag · 09-09-2020 5:56pm

blue note wrote: »

I can't see how ski resorts can open up within the recommended guidelines.

Have to say I unfortunately agree.

Perhaps some of the smaller lesser known resorts, with no gondolas, etc may be able to open. Or those with T-bars only somehow. But the larger resorts are in trouble I'd say.

Billy Mays · 09-09-2020 6:25pm

I'm gonna wait til the season is well under way and I hear some reports on how it's going.

Few of the lads are very keen on booking something soon. I think they're mad tbh. Ski holidays are pricey things. I'd be sick if I splashed out the guts of 2 grand only for it to end up being a disaster.

trashcan · 09-09-2020 9:18pm

Ah lads, this is all making me feel very pessimistic !

a148pro · 09-09-2020 9:25pm

I think it's the year to finally try self propelled skiing, ie, touring with a guide

Way too much up in the air - what will Ireland's position on travel be, will it be morally acceptable to go? I mean I barely know anyone who's gone on a foreign holiday, although that piety will wear off

I think resorts have been open as normalish for the summer season, albeit probably with feck all people there. What are the resorts saying? I suspect european guidelines / laws much less stringent than ireland

a148pro · 09-09-2020 9:42pm

Good and bad news here. Chrystal's policies with free changes etc are impressive.

https://planetski.eu/2020/09/06/coronavirus-impact-on-skiing-snowboarding-10/

a148pro · 11-09-2020 4:33pm

I know this has been done to death but it's a good article. The figure of 28 people dying from corona virus after returning from ischgl is pretty fcuking astonishing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/could-one-austrian-village-have-infected-much-of-europe-1.4348688

Rew · 11-09-2020 4:38pm

a148pro wrote: »

I know this has been done to death but it's a good article. The figure of 28 people dying from corona virus after returning from ischgl is pretty fcuking astonishing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/could-one-austrian-village-have-infected-much-of-europe-1.4348688

Id say the number is way higher, the spread from those who brought it back would be multiple times those that got it there.

I know one guy who got it there, his whole family got it and now he has long term side effects 6 months on.

Billy Mays · 11-09-2020 8:50pm

Ischgl is where my mates that I mentioned a few posts above are looking at booking next year. Was there two years ago and had one of my best ever boarding holidays but I'm not crazy on the idea of going back

Maybe I'm overthinking it but from a moral standpoint the idea of spending money there after how they handled the covid outbreak (basically putting profit ahead of people's health) doesn't sit right with me

a148pro · 11-09-2020 9:19pm

I'm not sure about that. With hindsight, bad decisions were certainly made. But it's very hard to expect a ski resort to make a decision that will effectively end it's season and livelihood for everyone in the valley, without clear information. How does it rank compared to irish decisions to recommend no restrictions on visits to nursing homes, not consider the role of agency staff in those environments, allow Italian fans to travel, put in place next to no travel restrictions despite seeing what was happening in europe?

Corona Virus

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