F1 2019 - Round 10 Silverstone

PukkaStukka · 14-07-2019 9:50pm

AMKC wrote: »

skipper_G wrote: »

I missed all the build up, for anyone who watched on C4. Did EJ reveal some news about Mclaren? Any details?

He did say he was going to yesterday alright but they must have got to him because he never revealed any big news about Mclaren. Just talked about why he thinks Vettel will go to Mercedes and Lewis to Ferrari that's all.

He said McLaren will take Mercedes engines. I too can see this happening because Williams is strongly rumoured to be switching to cheaper Renault customer engines

Cork Trucker · 14-07-2019 10:05pm

PukkaStukka wrote: »

He said McLaren will take Mercedes engines. I too can see this happening because Williams is strongly rumoured to be switching to cheaper Renault customer engines

Who knows what's true

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/144723/williams-close-to-extending-mercedes-engine-supply

Williams is closing in on a deal to extend its engine supply deal with Mercedes beyond the end of next year, deputy team principal Claire Williams has revealed

Autosport · 15-07-2019 12:46am

Any penalties for Vettel???

vectra · 15-07-2019 1:47am

Autosport wrote: »

Any penalties for Vettel???

10 second penalty.

Frank Bullitt · 15-07-2019 3:39am

That was bubbling nicely until the safety car

Gwynplaine · 15-07-2019 10:03am

The season is over already. 7 wins out of 10. LH will surely win at least another 5 or 6. Closing in on Schumacher's record fairly fast. I think he'll get the 7 championships too. Maybe 8.
Max is definitely a future WC. He'll have to wait another 3 or 4 years though.

Joeface · 15-07-2019 11:23am

That was a very entertaining Race , Thought it was even going to be better Bottas and Lewis at the start was excellent , and then to pile in Charles and Max supreme driving , and even adding Gasly on Vettel .( feel Gasly was a little burnt by Redbull bringing im him early and letting him out in Traffic but the saftey car kinda undid that ) .

My only grip with the whole thing isn't even at the Drivers its the Tyres again. Great that lewis is able drive a car for a fastest like he did on the last lap that but those tyres should have been butter at that stage . Having Red wall tyres on does nothing for any of these team. they are never quicker , are they not suppose to give at least 2 seconds a lap more in pace and then fade away . Bottas on new tyres not been able to match that time is just mad

Mclaren are doing really well at the moment , Im not sure what Renault can do to get back on terms with them but it does make the mid field Interesting .

ToroRosso have now caught up with RacingPoint , Good Drive by Kyatt to get into the points again and Albon was in hard luck . 2 laps from a points finish .

recyclebin · 15-07-2019 11:26am

Was it driver error or a puncture that caused Giovinazzi to spin? Raikkonen is doing a great job in the other Sauber.

vectra · 15-07-2019 11:32am

Joeface wrote: »

That was a very entertaining Race , Thought it was even going to be better Bottas and Lewis at the start was excellent , and then to pile in Charles and Max supreme driving , and even adding Gasly on Vettel .( feel Gasly was a little burnt by Redbull bringing im him early and letting him out in Traffic but the saftey car kinda undid that ) .

My only grip with the whole thing isn't even at the Drivers its the Tyres again. Great that lewis is able drive a car for a fastest like he did on the last lap that but those tyres should have been butter at that stage . Having Red wall tyres on does nothing for any of these team. they are never quicker , are they not suppose to give at least 2 seconds a lap more in pace and then fade away . Bottas on new tyres not been able to match that time is just mad

Mclaren are doing really well at the moment , Im not sure what Renault can do to get back on terms with them but it does make the mid field Interesting .

ToroRosso have now caught up with RacingPoint , Good Drive by Kyatt to get into the points again and Albon was in hard luck . 2 laps from a points finish .

As far as I am aware, Bottas tyres were a used set.

Joeface · 15-07-2019 11:36am

vectra wrote: »

As far as I am aware, Bottas tyres were a used set.

even at that , they should have been better for at least one lap on max pace .
Across the board the tyres for everyone this year have worked very different to what is been said at the start of every race. The worst as I see it are the softs . they never have the pace in the race all they do is go bad after 10 laps so your back foot from the word go .

pjohnson · 15-07-2019 1:21pm

This years tyres are just not fit for purpose.

The Hards are generally the best. And iirc Brundle said that it was C1, C2 & C3 being used. Those are the 3 hardest 2019 tyres.

the_pen_turner · 15-07-2019 1:22pm

A brand new medium shouldn't get fastest lap let alone a 30 lap old one

pjohnson · 15-07-2019 1:59pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

A brand new medium shouldn't get fastest lap let alone a 30 lap old one

Lewis was on a 30 lap old Hard tyre.

That tyre was still faster than Williams on the soft in Qualy :pac:

Frank Bullitt · 15-07-2019 5:01pm

Austria gave me a little hope of maybe an exciting last half of the season, not anymore.

Cork Trucker · 15-07-2019 5:08pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Austria gave me a little hope of maybe an exciting last half of the season, not anymore.

Mercedes have admitted there are 4 tracks where they are powerless to do much, Austria and Mexico are two of them.

Frank Bullitt · 15-07-2019 5:09pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Mercedes have admitted there are 4 tracks where they are powerless to do much, Austria and Mexico are two of them.

How noble of them...

Harika · 15-07-2019 5:51pm

Generell cooling seems their biggest issue, so climate change go go

Frank Bullitt · 15-07-2019 6:09pm

Harika wrote: »

Generell cooling seems their biggest issue, so climate change go go

They even took off some panels at the pitstop to open the car up to help with it.

the_pen_turner · 15-07-2019 6:41pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Lewis was on a 30 lap old Hard tyre.

That tyre was still faster than Williams on the soft in Qualy :pac:

sorry. your right. but thats even worse. a hard tyre shoudnt compete with a medium or soft for all out speed an pace. they should be for long stratagies

vectra · 15-07-2019 7:43pm

Just goes to show how far ahead that Merc is,

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2019 9:09am

vectra wrote: »

Just goes to show how far ahead that Merc is,

In actual fact it shows how far behind Williams is. In Quali the first 18 cars were covered by 1.8 seconds. You need to go another second back for Russel and a further half second back for Kubica. Meaning Kibica is nearly as far off the car in 18th as the car in 18th is off pole position.

The Williams is a mess and Kubica is only adding to the situation.

antodeco · 16-07-2019 10:28am

You wonder did Williams know this before the season, so picked a driver who could be blamed for "not performing" to hide the downfall of their car?

Harika · 16-07-2019 10:55am

antodeco wrote: »

You wonder did Williams know this before the season, so picked a driver who could be blamed for "not performing" to hide the downfall of their car?

Dont think anyone is blaming the drivers there atm. If Russell would be around 10 and Kubica 20 okay then, but so no blame can be allocated.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2019 11:03am

antodeco wrote: »

You wonder did Williams know this before the season, so picked a driver who could be blamed for "not performing" to hide the downfall of their car?

They picked 2 pay drivers. Russell is a Mercedes man which almost certainty knocks millions off the cost of the engines. And they lost the Stroll money (20m a year for each of the next 2 years according to Joe Saward). So they needed the Kubica money which is said to be over 10m a year. They knew how fast he wasn't from the tests he did. So they must have taken him for the money.

I don't think anyone is blaming him for the car's pace though. Claire Williams spends her whole life apologising for the state of the car. Saw her on the main stage at Silverstone and the Interview was one long apology.

pjohnson · 16-07-2019 11:06am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They picked 2 pay drivers. Russell is a Mercedes man which almost certainty knocks millions off the cost of the engines. And they lost the Stroll money (20m a year for each of the next 2 years according to Joe Saward). So they needed the Kubica money which is said to be over 10m a year. They knew how fast he wasn't from the tests he did. So they must have taken him for the money.

I don't think anyone is blaming him for the car's pace though. Claire Williams spends her whole life apologising for the state of the car. Saw her on the main stage at Silverstone and the Interview was one long apology.

Did Kubica not outperform Stroll and Sirotkin in the 2018 tests? The 2019 tests didnt mean much as they were still tryna make the car until Bahrain.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2019 11:19am

pjohnson wrote: »

Did Kubica not outperform Stroll and Sirotkin in the 2018 tests? The 2019 tests didnt mean much as they were still tryna make the car until Bahrain.

I don't know? What's the source of that info?

Even if true then they're still it would still be a one-off tests on different days, weather conditions etc. Even morning/afternoon makes a huge difference to tyre temps. It usually takes half a season for the public to figure out which teammate is faster. The teams have all the data from the tests and both Williams and Renault decided not to give him a seat.

pjohnson · 16-07-2019 1:09pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don't know? What's the source of that info?

Even if true then they're still it would still be a one-off tests on different days, weather conditions etc. Even morning/afternoon makes a huge difference to tyre temps. It usually takes half a season for the public to figure out which teammate is faster. The teams have all the data from the tests and both Williams and Renault decided not to give him a seat.

The test results are available. Kubica was also meant to be quicker than Sirotkin in 2017 in the Renault fwiw.

You just said Williams gave this years seat to two pay drivers, you do realise that is exactly what happened last year? SMP Racing announced they were not going to be providing the same amount of money to keep Sirotkin at Williams 2019.....since Bottas, and then Massa, left both Williams seats have been available to the highest bidder. Sirotkin outbid Kubica in 2018, he had to as his on track results didnt beat Kubica?

These debates are so boring when data is literally available. Yes Russell is better than Kubica but the FW42 is an absolute bin. Russells performances in the Mercs and Force India showed he is fast. The car is dragging both drivers back 3 - 4 seconds each. Russell topped the Bahrain in-season test in the Merc while being slowest in the Williams iirc.

chicorytip · 16-07-2019 1:29pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

In actual fact it shows how far behind Williams is. In Quali the first 18 cars were covered by 1.8 seconds. You need to go another second back for Russel and a further half second back for Kubica. Meaning Kibica is nearly as far off the car in 18th as the car in 18th is off pole position.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

The Williams is a mess and Kubica is only adding to the situation.

The average difference in qualifying times between Russell and Kubica so far this season is three tenths. There are far greater disparities between team mates elsewhere - Red Bull, Haas, Renault and Racing Point. There are other "pay" drivers available who could have brought similar revenue on board. Latifi is one but nobody seems to rate him very highly. They appointed Kubica, therefore, not solely for commercial or sentimental reasons. He has not done badly at all and the overall team performance has improved since the beginning of the season. If Haas and Racing Point continue to decline at their current rate parity could be achieved with them before long.

Cork Trucker · 16-07-2019 5:07pm

It wouldn’t surprise me if Kubica ended up at Racing Point at some stage to partner Stroll, they wanted him as test driver this year. Daddy Stroll must be upset that Perez is upsetting and outperforming his son, so if Sergio gets a gig elsewhere then RK will be in.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2019 7:22pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It wouldn’t surprise me if Kubica ended up at Racing Point at some stage to partner Stroll, they wanted him as test driver this year. Daddy Stroll must be upset that Perez is upsetting and outperforming his son, so if Sergio gets a gig elsewhere then RK will be in.

He might be the only driver on the grid who could make Lance look good as a teammate!

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2019 7:32pm

pjohnson wrote: »

The test results are available. Kubica was also meant to be quicker than Sirotkin in 2017 in the Renault fwiw.

You just said Williams gave this years seat to two pay drivers, you do realise that is exactly what happened last year? SMP Racing announced they were not going to be providing the same amount of money to keep Sirotkin at Williams 2019.....since Bottas, and then Massa, left both Williams seats have been available to the highest bidder. Sirotkin outbid Kubica in 2018, he had to as his on track results didnt beat Kubica?

These debates are so boring when data is literally available. Yes Russell is better than Kubica but the FW42 is an absolute bin. Russells performances in the Mercs and Force India showed he is fast. The car is dragging both drivers back 3 - 4 seconds each. Russell topped the Bahrain in-season test in the Merc while being slowest in the Williams iirc.

Are those test data available to the public? I doubt the team would actually make their data available in any kind of real form but you might be able to find it.

you said "Russell is better than Kubica but the FW42 is an absolute bin". Why"BUT"? It's a bin for both ans Russell is easily quicker. Kubica is more experienced and supposedly has talents at setting up and developing the car, but still his rookie teammate is easily faster.

The nostalgia is seriously clouding people's judgement. He might or might not have been a potential contender in the past, but he ain't now. He's a pay driver.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2019 8:33pm

chicorytip wrote: »

The average difference in qualifying times between Russell and Kubica so far this season is three tenths. There are far greater disparities between team mates elsewhere - Red Bull, Haas, Renault and Racing Point. There are other "pay" drivers available who could have brought similar revenue on board. Latifi is one but nobody seems to rate him very highly. They appointed Kubica, therefore, not solely for commercial or sentimental reasons. He has not done badly at all and the overall team performance has improved since the beginning of the season. If Haas and Racing Point continue to decline at their current rate parity could be achieved with them before long.

Yes there are differences between teammates but none as stark without serious doubts about the drivers. Everyone knows stroll is a special case of pay driver. Otherwise he wouldn't be on the grid. Gasley is in his second season and paired with possibly the second best driver on the grid. And he is under pernicious pressure for his place with recent speculation about whether he'll be replaced during this season.

And the HAAS boys are a different matter because they have each been on top of each other. Their aggregate average quality difference would be much less than the Williams boys and it's completely consistent all season so far.

At this stage I'm just curious to know how far the denial of the evidence will go. There was even suggestion that there was something wrong with kubicas chassis so they swapped and the result was the same. Would you accept that if kubica doesn't start to achieve parity in quality and races, that his comeback experiment will be exactly what it looks like - a massive failure?

chicorytip · 16-07-2019 9:59pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

At this stage I'm just curious to know how far the denial of the evidence will go. There was even suggestion that there was something wrong with kubicas chassis so they swapped and the result was the same. Would you accept that if kubica doesn't start to achieve parity in quality and races, that his comeback experiment will be exactly what it looks like - a massive failure?

No, his comeback could not be classed as a massive failure. Look at what he's had to overcome in order to be capable of driving once more, albeit at no more than a reasonably competent level at present. It would be different if he were performing at an embarrassingly bad level. I accept that might not be enough to save his seat next year but for him coming back this far has been a major triumph over adversity.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-07-2019 7:57am

chicorytip wrote: »

No, his comeback could not be classed as a massive failure. Look at what he's had to overcome in order to be capable of driving once more, albeit at no more than a reasonably competent level at present. It would be different if he were performing at an embarrassingly bad level. I accept that might not be enough to save his seat next year but for him coming back this far has been a major triumph over adversity.

This is the nostalgia I'm talking about. Look, I've nothing but admiration for his rehab efforts since the accident. Both the physical and psychological sides. But he is now probably in contention for worst driver on the grid and getting trounced by a rookie teammate. He's only going to retain his seat on a pay driver basis, just like stroll. Stroll ox probably the only driver completing for the wooden spoon.

Let me rephrase the question in purely driving terns. Unless he starts at least consistently matching his rookie teammate in quali and races by the end of the season, would you conceded his driving comeback will have been a massive failure?

johnnysmack · 17-07-2019 2:20pm

You're under estimating how good Russell is. Norris and Albon are also rookies and they're both a match for their more experienced team mates. Russell beat both of them the year before in F2 by over 60 points.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-07-2019 4:23pm

chicorytip wrote: »

The average difference in qualifying times between Russell and Kubica so far this season is three tenths. There are far greater disparities between team mates elsewhere - Red Bull, Haas, Renault and Racing Point.

Interesting analysis by Andrew benson the average difference between Russell and kubica is 0.45 seconds. Not three tenths. It's one and a half times as bad as that. The only bigger gap between teammates is gasley to verstappen.

The fact is that the comeback has not been a success so far. Gasley and kubica need to seriously up their games or It's likely to be a massive failure for both.

https://mobile.twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1151414986239041536

El_Duderino 09 · 17-07-2019 4:32pm

johnnysmack wrote: »

You're under estimating how good Russell is. Norris and Albon are also rookies and they're both a match for their more experienced team mates. Russell beat both of them the year before in F2 by over 60 points.

Albon and norris are half a tenth ahead of their teammates in quali. Russel is about nine times further ahead of his teammate.

Why All the excuses and downplaying how far back kubica is?

I think we'd all be delighted if he was on top form. But sooner or later we'll have to start being realistic.

colmufc · 18-07-2019 2:46pm

I can't find an skyf1 post so I'm going to say it here I didn't get to watch any of the post race stuff until today and did it strike anyone how much of a dick Ted was being to the cameraman during the notebook

Cork Trucker · 18-07-2019 2:49pm

colmufc wrote: »

I can't find an skyf1 post so I'm going to say it here I didn't get to watch any of the post race stuff until today and did it strike anyone how much of a dick Tedbeing to the cameraman during the notebook

Treated him like a child

colmufc · 18-07-2019 2:59pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Treated him like a child

Ya that's what I was thinking I've never seen him like that before and he completely skipped the merc garage

H3llR4iser · 18-07-2019 4:21pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Interesting analysis by Andrew benson the average difference between Russell and kubica is 0.45 seconds. Not three tenths. It's one and a half times as bad as that. The only bigger gap between teammates is gasley to verstappen.

The fact is that the comeback has not been a success so far. Gasley and kubica need to seriously up their games or It's likely to be a massive failure for both.

https://mobile.twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1151414986239041536

I'd say Red Bull are fine with Gasly; They were probably expecting a bit more, but all in all they only wanted a guy who wouldn't upset their "golden boy" and avoid further clashes like with Ricciardo. They had the easy option of putting Sainz in the car and didn't - we know Carlos and Verstappen didn't exactly get along at Toro Rosso.

All RB want of their "unwanted but necessary" driver at the moment is that he stays ahead of the non-top-3 teams and out of Max's way. Pierre's only delivering on the second atm, but showing improvement. This is the guy who took a Toro Rosso to a couple of 4th places afterall, he has it somewhere.

F1 2019 - Round 10 Silverstone

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