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F1 2019 - Round 10 Silverstone

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    #212
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,303 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    This years tyres are just not fit for purpose.

    The Hards are generally the best. And iirc Brundle said that it was C1, C2 & C3 being used. Those are the 3 hardest 2019 tyres.


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    #213
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    A brand new medium shouldn't get fastest lap let alone a 30 lap old one


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    #214
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,303 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    A brand new medium shouldn't get fastest lap let alone a 30 lap old one

    Lewis was on a 30 lap old Hard tyre.


    That tyre was still faster than Williams on the soft in Qualy :pac:


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    #215
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Austria gave me a little hope of maybe an exciting last half of the season, not anymore.


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    #216
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Austria gave me a little hope of maybe an exciting last half of the season, not anymore.

    Mercedes have admitted there are 4 tracks where they are powerless to do much, Austria and Mexico are two of them.


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    #217
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Mercedes have admitted there are 4 tracks where they are powerless to do much, Austria and Mexico are two of them.

    How noble of them...


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    #218
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Harika


    Generell cooling seems their biggest issue, so climate change go go


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    #219
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Harika wrote: »
    Generell cooling seems their biggest issue, so climate change go go

    They even took off some panels at the pitstop to open the car up to help with it.


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    #220
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Lewis was on a 30 lap old Hard tyre.


    That tyre was still faster than Williams on the soft in Qualy :pac:

    sorry. your right. but thats even worse. a hard tyre shoudnt compete with a medium or soft for all out speed an pace. they should be for long stratagies


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    #221
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Just goes to show how far ahead that Merc is, :(


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    #222
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    vectra wrote: »
    Just goes to show how far ahead that Merc is, :(

    In actual fact it shows how far behind Williams is. In Quali the first 18 cars were covered by 1.8 seconds. You need to go another second back for Russel and a further half second back for Kubica. Meaning Kibica is nearly as far off the car in 18th as the car in 18th is off pole position.

    The Williams is a mess and Kubica is only adding to the situation.


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    #223
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,449 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    You wonder did Williams know this before the season, so picked a driver who could be blamed for "not performing" to hide the downfall of their car?


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    #224
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Harika


    antodeco wrote: »
    You wonder did Williams know this before the season, so picked a driver who could be blamed for "not performing" to hide the downfall of their car?

    Dont think anyone is blaming the drivers there atm. If Russell would be around 10 and Kubica 20 okay then, but so no blame can be allocated.


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    #225
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    antodeco wrote: »
    You wonder did Williams know this before the season, so picked a driver who could be blamed for "not performing" to hide the downfall of their car?

    They picked 2 pay drivers. Russell is a Mercedes man which almost certainty knocks millions off the cost of the engines. And they lost the Stroll money (20m a year for each of the next 2 years according to Joe Saward). So they needed the Kubica money which is said to be over 10m a year. They knew how fast he wasn't from the tests he did. So they must have taken him for the money.

    I don't think anyone is blaming him for the car's pace though. Claire Williams spends her whole life apologising for the state of the car. Saw her on the main stage at Silverstone and the Interview was one long apology.


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    #226
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,303 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    They picked 2 pay drivers. Russell is a Mercedes man which almost certainty knocks millions off the cost of the engines. And they lost the Stroll money (20m a year for each of the next 2 years according to Joe Saward). So they needed the Kubica money which is said to be over 10m a year. They knew how fast he wasn't from the tests he did. So they must have taken him for the money.

    I don't think anyone is blaming him for the car's pace though. Claire Williams spends her whole life apologising for the state of the car. Saw her on the main stage at Silverstone and the Interview was one long apology.

    Did Kubica not outperform Stroll and Sirotkin in the 2018 tests? The 2019 tests didnt mean much as they were still tryna make the car until Bahrain.


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    #227
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Did Kubica not outperform Stroll and Sirotkin in the 2018 tests? The 2019 tests didnt mean much as they were still tryna make the car until Bahrain.

    I don't know? What's the source of that info?

    Even if true then they're still it would still be a one-off tests on different days, weather conditions etc. Even morning/afternoon makes a huge difference to tyre temps. It usually takes half a season for the public to figure out which teammate is faster. The teams have all the data from the tests and both Williams and Renault decided not to give him a seat.


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    #228
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,303 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I don't know? What's the source of that info?

    Even if true then they're still it would still be a one-off tests on different days, weather conditions etc. Even morning/afternoon makes a huge difference to tyre temps. It usually takes half a season for the public to figure out which teammate is faster. The teams have all the data from the tests and both Williams and Renault decided not to give him a seat.
    The test results are available. Kubica was also meant to be quicker than Sirotkin in 2017 in the Renault fwiw.

    You just said Williams gave this years seat to two pay drivers, you do realise that is exactly what happened last year? SMP Racing announced they were not going to be providing the same amount of money to keep Sirotkin at Williams 2019.....since Bottas, and then Massa, left both Williams seats have been available to the highest bidder. Sirotkin outbid Kubica in 2018, he had to as his on track results didnt beat Kubica?

    These debates are so boring when data is literally available. Yes Russell is better than Kubica but the FW42 is an absolute bin. Russells performances in the Mercs and Force India showed he is fast. The car is dragging both drivers back 3 - 4 seconds each. Russell topped the Bahrain in-season test in the Merc while being slowest in the Williams iirc.


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    #229
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    El_Duderino 09 wrote:
    In actual fact it shows how far behind Williams is. In Quali the first 18 cars were covered by 1.8 seconds. You need to go another second back for Russel and a further half second back for Kubica. Meaning Kibica is nearly as far off the car in 18th as the car in 18th is off pole position.

    El_Duderino 09 wrote:
    The Williams is a mess and Kubica is only adding to the situation.


    The average difference in qualifying times between Russell and Kubica so far this season is three tenths. There are far greater disparities between team mates elsewhere - Red Bull, Haas, Renault and Racing Point. There are other "pay" drivers available who could have brought similar revenue on board. Latifi is one but nobody seems to rate him very highly. They appointed Kubica, therefore, not solely for commercial or sentimental reasons. He has not done badly at all and the overall team performance has improved since the beginning of the season. If Haas and Racing Point continue to decline at their current rate parity could be achieved with them before long.


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    #230
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    It wouldn’t surprise me if Kubica ended up at Racing Point at some stage to partner Stroll, they wanted him as test driver this year. Daddy Stroll must be upset that Perez is upsetting and outperforming his son, so if Sergio gets a gig elsewhere then RK will be in.


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    #231
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    It wouldn’t surprise me if Kubica ended up at Racing Point at some stage to partner Stroll, they wanted him as test driver this year. Daddy Stroll must be upset that Perez is upsetting and outperforming his son, so if Sergio gets a gig elsewhere then RK will be in.

    He might be the only driver on the grid who could make Lance look good as a teammate!


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    #232
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    pjohnson wrote: »
    The test results are available. Kubica was also meant to be quicker than Sirotkin in 2017 in the Renault fwiw.

    You just said Williams gave this years seat to two pay drivers, you do realise that is exactly what happened last year? SMP Racing announced they were not going to be providing the same amount of money to keep Sirotkin at Williams 2019.....since Bottas, and then Massa, left both Williams seats have been available to the highest bidder. Sirotkin outbid Kubica in 2018, he had to as his on track results didnt beat Kubica?

    These debates are so boring when data is literally available. Yes Russell is better than Kubica but the FW42 is an absolute bin. Russells performances in the Mercs and Force India showed he is fast. The car is dragging both drivers back 3 - 4 seconds each. Russell topped the Bahrain in-season test in the Merc while being slowest in the Williams iirc.

    Are those test data available to the public? I doubt the team would actually make their data available in any kind of real form but you might be able to find it.

    you said "Russell is better than Kubica but the FW42 is an absolute bin". Why"BUT"? It's a bin for both ans Russell is easily quicker. Kubica is more experienced and supposedly has talents at setting up and developing the car, but still his rookie teammate is easily faster.

    The nostalgia is seriously clouding people's judgement. He might or might not have been a potential contender in the past, but he ain't now. He's a pay driver.


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    #233
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    chicorytip wrote: »
    The average difference in qualifying times between Russell and Kubica so far this season is three tenths. There are far greater disparities between team mates elsewhere - Red Bull, Haas, Renault and Racing Point. There are other "pay" drivers available who could have brought similar revenue on board. Latifi is one but nobody seems to rate him very highly. They appointed Kubica, therefore, not solely for commercial or sentimental reasons. He has not done badly at all and the overall team performance has improved since the beginning of the season. If Haas and Racing Point continue to decline at their current rate parity could be achieved with them before long.

    Yes there are differences between teammates but none as stark without serious doubts about the drivers. Everyone knows stroll is a special case of pay driver. Otherwise he wouldn't be on the grid. Gasley is in his second season and paired with possibly the second best driver on the grid. And he is under pernicious pressure for his place with recent speculation about whether he'll be replaced during this season.

    And the HAAS boys are a different matter because they have each been on top of each other. Their aggregate average quality difference would be much less than the Williams boys and it's completely consistent all season so far.

    At this stage I'm just curious to know how far the denial of the evidence will go. There was even suggestion that there was something wrong with kubicas chassis so they swapped and the result was the same. Would you accept that if kubica doesn't start to achieve parity in quality and races, that his comeback experiment will be exactly what it looks like - a massive failure?


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    #234
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    El_Duderino 09 wrote:
    At this stage I'm just curious to know how far the denial of the evidence will go. There was even suggestion that there was something wrong with kubicas chassis so they swapped and the result was the same. Would you accept that if kubica doesn't start to achieve parity in quality and races, that his comeback experiment will be exactly what it looks like - a massive failure?


    No, his comeback could not be classed as a massive failure. Look at what he's had to overcome in order to be capable of driving once more, albeit at no more than a reasonably competent level at present. It would be different if he were performing at an embarrassingly bad level. I accept that might not be enough to save his seat next year but for him coming back this far has been a major triumph over adversity.


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    #235
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    chicorytip wrote: »
    No, his comeback could not be classed as a massive failure. Look at what he's had to overcome in order to be capable of driving once more, albeit at no more than a reasonably competent level at present. It would be different if he were performing at an embarrassingly bad level. I accept that might not be enough to save his seat next year but for him coming back this far has been a major triumph over adversity.

    This is the nostalgia I'm talking about. Look, I've nothing but admiration for his rehab efforts since the accident. Both the physical and psychological sides. But he is now probably in contention for worst driver on the grid and getting trounced by a rookie teammate. He's only going to retain his seat on a pay driver basis, just like stroll. Stroll ox probably the only driver completing for the wooden spoon.

    Let me rephrase the question in purely driving terns. Unless he starts at least consistently matching his rookie teammate in quali and races by the end of the season, would you conceded his driving comeback will have been a massive failure?


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    #236
    johnnysmack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭johnnysmack


    You're under estimating how good Russell is. Norris and Albon are also rookies and they're both a match for their more experienced team mates. Russell beat both of them the year before in F2 by over 60 points.


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    #237
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    chicorytip wrote: »
    The average difference in qualifying times between Russell and Kubica so far this season is three tenths. There are far greater disparities between team mates elsewhere - Red Bull, Haas, Renault and Racing Point.

    Interesting analysis by Andrew benson the average difference between Russell and kubica is 0.45 seconds. Not three tenths. It's one and a half times as bad as that. The only bigger gap between teammates is gasley to verstappen.

    The fact is that the comeback has not been a success so far. Gasley and kubica need to seriously up their games or It's likely to be a massive failure for both.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1151414986239041536


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    #238
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    johnnysmack wrote: »
    You're under estimating how good Russell is. Norris and Albon are also rookies and they're both a match for their more experienced team mates. Russell beat both of them the year before in F2 by over 60 points.

    Albon and norris are half a tenth ahead of their teammates in quali. Russel is about nine times further ahead of his teammate.

    Why All the excuses and downplaying how far back kubica is?

    I think we'd all be delighted if he was on top form. But sooner or later we'll have to start being realistic.


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    #239
    colmufc
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭colmufc


    I can't find an skyf1 post so I'm going to say it here I didn't get to watch any of the post race stuff until today and did it strike anyone how much of a dick Ted was being to the cameraman during the notebook


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    #240
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    colmufc wrote: »
    I can't find an skyf1 post so I'm going to say it here I didn't get to watch any of the post race stuff until today and did it strike anyone how much of a dick Tedbeing to the cameraman during the notebook

    Treated him like a child


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    #241
    colmufc
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭colmufc


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Treated him like a child

    Ya that's what I was thinking I've never seen him like that before and he completely skipped the merc garage


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