1000's of kids making their communion today

I think by making a big deal out of him having a day for himself you are still buying into the significance of the day Kiwi. I completely get where you are coming from and I've been there myself with my older child but I don't think you should make a big deal of it. By all means make the most of the day and I gave mine the day off when the kids went in to have their photos taken but leave it at that I think. It might not even bother him, my daughter wasn't pushed on it and never felt left out, no one ever teased her. I think kids are a lot less bothered by all this than we think.

One Eye out of interest why is your son making confirmation? I didn't think you were Catholic.

Hannah Tart Flutist wrote: »

Based on the ops argument we shouldn't let our kids get involved in politics or law enforcement as the politicians and guards covered up the child abuse and therefore allowed it happen.

Yes, because the systematic abuse, rape, selling and murder of children would only be wrong if the church had done it entirely by themselves. They had friends in the garda and the government help them, so it's not really their fault at all. :rolleyes:

meeeeh wrote: »

I must say I find all this ostentatious competition between parents of the kids revolting. Be it Catholic girls and boys getting dolled up up to the nines, the greed and the money or nonreligious parents competing to make sure their kids have some mad party to compensate for not being dressed as mirangue. It's pretty sad really.

Our kids will get communion if their father wants to take them to mass (and won't if it depends on me) but if there is one thing I am certain about is that I'm not letting it get out of hand. I don't want to go all 'starving kids in Africa' but I certainly hope I am not introducing them to the vulgar one upmanship at the age of seven or eight.

As for opening post, making a stand all the time is terribly dull thing. Especially because societies have to look at themselves too and ask why so many vulnerable people and especially vulnerable kids were put in position to be abused.

I used to wonder actually when I was younger, was my generations vulgar obsession with materialism a symptom of Irish culture being influenced by a steady diet of American MTV shows, and then I realised as I got older that no, Irish culture was always like this, having to outdo their neighbours even if it meant they couldn't put a meal on the table for the next year because they were after getting themselves into crippling debt just to show off to the neighbours. The Celtic Tiger years were some of the worst excesses I've ever witnessed - pink hummer stretch limos and horse drawn pink pumpkin carriages pulling up to the Church and squeezing in among the 4x4 city slicker SUVs!! Honest to... well, you get the idea :pac:

Even reading through Irish history, there was always this thing of having to show you were better than your neighbours, and the RCC milked our sense of haughy indignation, self-righteousness, ego and narcissism for all it was worth by having people who had fcukall after a shìtty crop failure STILL competing with each other to give the last of what was left of their crops to the Church! :rolleyes:

The OP has a point, but honestly it was made so badly I couldn't even be arsed. I sat in mass there yesterday and not once, not twice, but THREE fcuking times the money baskets were passed around, and the Church was packed, packed, and there were €10s and €20s in the baskets EACH time!! This is EVERY Sunday, and I'm just thinking to myself as the guy is reaching to pass me the basket for another round - "Will you fcuk off mate, I come here to pray, not to pay!!" I don't even need to say it to him as we both look each other in the eye and he knows he's taking the piss, and he knows I'm absolutely infuriated that he appears to have no shame whatsoever about his behaviour. There's no humility, there's no graciousness, there's nothing! Just a gormless old fart with his grubby shovel hands out again for more money. The same chap probably still has his own Communion money ffs! He's moved on to the next pew before I lose my shìt and fcuk the baskets out of his hands... It absolutely enrages me the sort of self-centred greed and one-upmanship I see in ALL sectors of Irish society, the expectation and the entitlement.

I've had to stop working with some "charity" organisations because I literally could not stomach the utter corruption and greed and vulture culture I witnessed - one particular charity which shall remain unidentified which had €7m (that's seven MILLION btw) in assets on it's balance sheet, donations of €75k and upwards on a regular basis left to them in wills, funding from the HSE and private donors that had my work colleagues tell me I "worked the room like a two-bit whore" to squeeze cheques with three figure sums from their fat fingers. Even thinking about it now I'm actually ashamed I had to do that, but I believed that the money was going to fund resources for the people who needed them the most. It was in it's bollocks. I'd say if there was even two cents in every euro going to fund resources I'm being generous. Most of it was going on funding the lifestyles of the people who actually managed the money, with everyone taking their cut, while I was breaking my balls for nothing, because I believed that eventually the money would trickle into funding resources while I was providing what resources I had for free to them because it was a good cause.

When I got talking with the MD about the running of the organisation and the way it was being so inefficiently run because the people weren't getting the resources they needed, he seemed more interested in my background than actually talking about how funds were being siphoned and the thought occurred to me that this a-hole was lining me up to be the face of their next campaign. That's when I figured they could find themselves another poster boy, I'm out.

That was just one organisation btw, of many, many "charities" I've worked with over the last 20 years, and if anyone thinks the RCC are good at exploitation and sucking the very life and soul out of people, the RCC are positively amateurs in comparison to some of the organisations I've experienced.

The problem OP isn't with any particular organisation or club, or religion or anything else, the problem is human nature, in all of us. Don't get me wrong though, the vast, vast majority of people I've worked with and met in the course of my work and in any of the organisations I've worked in have been truly hard working, incredible, amazing people, and that's why I count someone like Michael Nugent as someone I very much admire, because the man is a tireless and dedicated worker, truly dedicated to what he believes in, and it's a shame I feel anyway that he and his organisation don't get the national recognition I feel anyway that they deserve. I may not entirely agree with the policies and aims of Atheist Ireland, but fcuk me I have to admire their dedication all the same, all the more admirable when I see the humility and lack of egotism every time I've ever watched Michael in action and read his contributions to this forum (I've always wanted to ask him is that the same red tee shirt he wears all the time, and if so, what brand of washing powder is he using that he manages to keep it's colour so vibrant!! ).




Christ I held that one in a while! :pac:

TL:DR; In short OP, that's people for you, and you could spend your whole life trying to figure them out, or just get on with your own life and where you see people in need, help them out without being a cnut about it, and without expecting anything in return. It pays better.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

....I don't mean to be mean, but that's the exact same as praying to the wall."

He's right, god can hear your prayers anywhere. It was Pentecostal. I know that because the secular state that I am currently on holiday in has it as a national holiday.

Kenny Bania wrote:

Are people just not aware that the Catholic Church molested 10's of 1000's of kids around the world and covered it up, or do they just not care?

Kenny Bania wrote:

Why are people cool with kids being molested, especially being parents themselves? And I believe they must be "cool" with it, otherwise why would they voluntarily choose to associate with this very same organisation.

Kenny Bania wrote:

And not only that, a few weeks before their communion, they send their kid into a box with a dirty old man who asks them about all the naught things they've been getting up to lately!! aka 'first confession'. They're 8 - they have nothing to confess to you, ya big weirdo FFS!

Kenny Bania wrote:

Am I the one that's crazy here? Is it okay to molest thousands of kids? People seem cool with it.

Wow were you ever at mass in your life?
First confessions in my area was done on the alter in front of everyone although you couldn't hear anything but could see it all..I think your a disgrace posting such a comment and tarring all priests with the one brush,and that's coming from someone who goes to mass once or twice a year.shame on you

Kenny Bania wrote: »

And don't try the "few bad apples" argument - it's never held water. Any priests that didn't partake were well aware - and that, by definition, makes them complicit. They all knew what was going on.

I have to say, I don't think that argument ever held water. I've known plenty of priests (from more than one Christian denomination) who would never have been complicit at all; all of them would and do find such abuses abhorrent. What was done was bad enough without engaging full conspiracy mode.

All of those things have separate meanings though. A wedding is a declaration of love and an official joining of a family with or without religious elements. And a funeral is a celebration/mourning of a person who has died. These are human rituals that make sense in their own right. A communion or confirmation has no meaning outside of its religious significance. Therefore it should be a time when those involved seriously think about their faith.

Qs wrote: »

All of those things have separate meanings though. A wedding is a declaration of love and an official joining of a family with or without religious elements. And a funeral is a celebration/mourning of a person who has died. These are human rituals that make sense in their own right. A communion or confirmation has no meaning outside of its religious significance. Therefore it should be a time when those involved seriously think about their faith.

Do they? I see no other reason for wedding but legal in countries where needed. Where I come from the cohabiting is equalized in law so the marriage rates are significantly. I feel there is no need for me to declare my love or officially join family (what nonsense is that anyway, you are either accepted or not and no official joining will change that).

I would think funeral helps with grieving but it is still a ritual. You can attach any kind of meaning to anything anyway.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm not sure of the legal position where you're from meeeeh, but in Ireland, people are only considered a family with regard to the Irish Constitution once they are married:

Oh I am aware of that. I sloppily read the bit and took it as symbolical joining of the family. My point was you can do a wedding in the same way as business transaction (a woman I know got married during a lunch break because it helped getting a mortgage) which is the legal bit, all other fuss is pure ritual and unnecessary but people still like to do it.

meeeeh wrote: »

I would think it doesn't matter if it's religious occasion or not but it has a lot more to do with what is important to parents. I have distaste for big events so there probably wouldn't be a big party and since we are small family and half of relatives outside Ireland even if gifts were given our kids wouldn't come out with huge amounts. I don't feel sorry for my kids in fact I think they are damn lucky, they live in comfortable house in nice neighborhood, they get everything they need and while we don't consider ourselves parents of the month, they are happy and loved kids. And that is why I find the idea kids would be bullied without big expensive day out insulting and out frankly out of touch with reality.

As a society we do like a bit of ritual though. Be it the wedding (a signature in registry office would be enough), christening or naming ceremonies, even funerals have a degree of ritual to it. So I can appreciate why kids go through different sacraments without big soul searching about depth of their or their parent's religion.

Are you deliberately missing the point? It has almost nothing whatsoever to do with the ritual. It has everything to do with an 8 year old child being the only one of 30+ children who day spend nearly ever day with, not being the one to get €1000+. Being the only child not spending months on end discussing what they will buy and have bought with their money. That will have an impact on the child whether you like it or not and it's truly 'out of touch with reality' to think otherwise.

Maybe because this isn't something you have grown up with you can't really understand it. It is all about the money. Deep down I'm an anti-capitalist, anarchist who has opted out of so many mainstream expectations. I live on very little money, almost everything I own is second-hand, I value nothing but spending time with loved ones. My parents have similar attitudes. And without even thinking about it, I can tell you exactly how much money I got for my communion, who gave me what and what I bought with the money. So can most people I've talked to about it. It's seared in. I remember endless discussions in the schoolyard about who got how much. Even years later it was a repeated topic of conversation. And it's a huge part of why otherwise rational people still remain in the RCC.

I'm all for a coming-of-age/right of passage event for youngsters. However, like most of the posters in this thread I find the hypocrisy of communions disgusting because it extends to the children.