Is TJ Reid a better all round player than Henry Shefflin already?

I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

If so, how can he be better than a guy who is hailed as the best ever who has won 10 AIs?

His ability to make space and his left handed hurling style makes him difficult to mark for a defender. Incredible shooting and sometimes without moving from the standing position. Hes a joy to watch but hardly in the Kings realm, yet!

nice_guy80 wrote: »

TJ is still improving if you ask me.

Joe doesn't have enough good players around him on the galway team.

Yes, I actually think Reid has grown into a leader on the KK team and his consistency, especially in the past year or so has improved.

JC does indeed not have enough good players around him; if Reid (or Shefflin) had to play for Galway they wouldn't have the same regard they have now, and believe me, if Canning had the luxury of playing for KK, he would at the very least be rated with the aforementioned.

It's an outright fallacy to say JC isn't consistent; very few matches pass without him having some influence on proceedings. If you watch him for as long and as closely as I have, you will realise this.

NIMAN wrote: »

I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

If so, how can he be better than a guy who is hailed as the best ever who has won 10 AIs?

I think you must be new on the scene. Or a spoofer.

PlayByTheRules wrote: »

I still stand over this. So many parts of his game are better. Better placed ball taker - almost never misses in Croker. Shefflin was known to miss a few. Better passer - that one he pinged into JonJo Farrell today was incredible. His stickwork just seems more natural than Shefflin. He really does have it all.

Shefflin was better in the air.

Shefflin had better vision. Able to pick out a pass that nobody could see. Reid can pass a ball directly into a team-mates hand, but it's a pass others can see.

Shefflin had more influence on his team. He played on probably the best hurling team ever, yet Kilkenny always missed him when he wasn't there. Not sure the same could be said for Reid.


They are 2 fantastic players but if I had to choose 1, I'd still prefer shefflin on my team.

I actually agree that Reid is approaching Shefflin-levels of influence, which says 2 things; that he's a very good hurler indeed, and that Shefflin's greatness for all of it was maybe a bit overstated.

I saw Joe Canning score something ridiculous like 2-12 in a senior game, and the kind of in/out match that Reid had for KK yesterday, Canning has often had for Galway but never got the credit for. (Not trying to start a comparison war or anything like.)

tcrilly52 wrote: »

Good points
I think Henry Shefflin was pumped up a bit, but it was difficult to see as he was part of the the most dominant Hurling team since the great Tipperary teams of the 60s and 70s (Hell Kitchen full back line, Francs Loughnane,Jimmy Doyle Generation etc) and I reckon Brian Wheelahan of Offaly would of stopped Henry Shefflin or TJ Reid Hurling as cleanly and as open as they do/did. I also think Eoin Kelly of Tipp doesn't get the recognition he deserves, 6 all stars, 2 all Ireland's and if he had an off day Tipp Lost as Lar Corbet had knees made of kit kats. Im not starting a comparison war but TJ reid and Richie are Hogan are the current best in the country along with Austin Gleeson, Seamie Callanan to name a few, Although Callanan isnt consistent with frees. Hurling is a fantastic game and the Skill level has changed so much in the last ten years alone and as much as im sick of KK winning it, they are the reason for this spike in the Level of effort and dedication across counties, even at underage level there is teams knocking on the door that ten years ago would of been walkovers, Westmeath, Carlow, Dublin, Wexford, Laois have made a fair go at minor and Under 21 in recent years and its all thanks to the Dominance of KK

All fair points. I think Tommy or JJ were the best hurlers of that generation, but either way, the point about the constantly elevated skill levels in the game is the key point. Anyone who looks at old matches from the 70s and 80s can easily confirm that this is an ongoing process. The skill and fitness levels are light years ahead of what they used to be. Christy Ring was right in saying 'Let no one say the best hurlers belong to the past, they're with us now and better yet to come.' We have a lot to look forward to so!

I think Reid is better alright, I know Richie hogan isnt a full time half forward but where does he fit into the debate? Is he better again?

I'm a neutral and imo neither are as good as DJ Carey who is the greatest hurler i have ever seen

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Three counties only

I'm not sure what the three counties that actually don't promote hurling at all are but being realistic here, Longford, Louth, Leitrim, Sligo, Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh and Tyrone don't put a whole lot more into hurling than Kilkenny put into football. Yet some of them have had virtually no success at football in their history.

It's very lazy to say they're only that good at hurling becuase they don't play football. Of course it's a bit of a help, I don't doubt that we'd have had more success over the years if there was no football in the county becuase I'm sure some of our great footballers would have been great hurlers too had they played that game instead. But even allowing for that Kilkenny still have to be doing a lot of stuff better than everyone else in terms of coaching and developing their players.

Another interesting thing to look at is that they don't hoover up the titles at underage or anything, they win their fair share don't get me wrong but they win no more under 21 and minor titles than we do or Tipp or Clare (I haven't actually looked this up but that's certainly how it seems)

They seem to have an ability to turn guys that were "good" minors into outstanding seniors. Obviously there's times someone like Richie Hogan comes along who's been touted as a star all the way up but an awful lot of guys that weren't outstanding minors into players that had great senior careers. The two guys named in this thread probably being a good example, certainly Shefflin is anyway and I certainly can't remember any huge hype about TJ when he was a minor and it took him a while to get established on the senior team but look at him now.

Speaking from the perspective of my own county I can't really think of too any guys in recent years that have gone from being just decent minors into being very good senior hurlers for us.

If you look at all our good senior players now: Canning, David Burke, Daithi Burke, Conor Whelan, the two Mannions, all of these guys were touted as stars from when they were minors.

I often think in Galway that in terms of the senior hurling you either break into the panel it by the time you're 20 and push on to the team shortly after that or else you just forget about county hurling and focus on other priorites and hurl away with your club. There seems to be no desire for lads to stick around and stay plugging away at it and wait until they're 23 or 24 to get a chance, where as in Kilkenny it seems like these guys will do everything they can to get a chance. I suppose success breeds that too becuase Kilkenny being so successful means guys are more motivated to want to be a part of that.

But I don't doubt that if John Joe Farrell, Ger Aylward and even TJ himself were Galway men that they'd have given it maybe 2 years on the panel and decided it wasn't going to happen for them and would have gone off to America for a couple of Summers maybe and now they'd be back hurling with their clubs and they'd be regarded as guys that are fine club hurlers and were good underage hurlers with Galway but never quiet made it. And we'd be busy bringing through the next raft of 20 year olds, some of whom will make it, some who won't and the cycle will start again but those three guys that were capable of being very good intercounty hurlers would have slipped through the net.

Anyway that's gone a bit off topic but I was just I suppose trying to go into some of the reason why I feel Kilkenny have been so successful relative to my own county given that on the face of it we seem to be capable of producing similarly talented players at underage level.