Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Is TJ Reid a better all round player than Henry Shefflin already?

  • 07-03-2016 12:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭ PlayByTheRules


    What do others think? Looking at him in action yesterday he seems to be operating on a different level to anyone else in the country at present. He is able to play it any way you like and seems to only need a foot of space under pressure to score. He has turned himself into a pure athlete and covers the whole length of the pitch every game for attack and defense. Second to none in terms of winning the ball in the air. Also, his vision is superb and almost never gives the ball away, every pass seems to find a player able to launch an attack.

    Shefflin had most of these skills too but I am starting to think that TJ is already a better player than Shefflin as he has everything Shefflin had plus more athleticism. Shefflin would rarely be seen as far back as the full back line cleaning up ball and helping his defense out. Right now TJ is looking like Hurler of the Year again for 2016.

    What do others think?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭ keeponhurling


    He has a bit to go yet before he can be compared to Henry


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,705 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

    If so, how can he be better than a guy who is hailed as the best ever who has won 10 AIs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭ keeponhurling


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

    He debuted for Kilkenny in 2007 actually, won his first All-Star in 2012


  • Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭ Davys Fits


    His ability to make space and his left handed hurling style makes him difficult to mark for a defender. Incredible shooting and sometimes without moving from the standing position. Hes a joy to watch but hardly in the Kings realm, yet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,069 ✭✭✭ MfMan


    Maybe, but is he better than JC? Skill wise I would say no.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭ Dirty Dingus McGee


    MfMan wrote: »
    Maybe, but is he better than JC? Skill wise I would say no.


    But Hurling isn't a skills competition if it was John Troy would probably be one of the top 10 hurlers or better of all time.

    Joe Canning has underachieved in his inter county career as although his skill level is incredible I don't think he's really backed it up with consistent performances of the same level, it seems he has moments of brilliance throughout his career but not long enough periods of sustained brilliance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    TJ is still improving if you ask me.

    Joe doesn't have enough good players around him on the galway team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,069 ✭✭✭ MfMan


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    TJ is still improving if you ask me.

    Joe doesn't have enough good players around him on the galway team.

    Yes, I actually think Reid has grown into a leader on the KK team and his consistency, especially in the past year or so has improved.

    JC does indeed not have enough good players around him; if Reid (or Shefflin) had to play for Galway they wouldn't have the same regard they have now, and believe me, if Canning had the luxury of playing for KK, he would at the very least be rated with the aforementioned.

    It's an outright fallacy to say JC isn't consistent; very few matches pass without him having some influence on proceedings. If you watch him for as long and as closely as I have, you will realise this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭ malascoile


    He has 7 All Irelands. Only 3 to catch Henry. At 28, its very possible he will surpass him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭ flasher0030


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

    If so, how can he be better than a guy who is hailed as the best ever who has won 10 AIs?

    I think you must be new on the scene. Or a spoofer.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭ Road-Hog


    could it be the performance enhancing stuff that he is availing off?:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭ PlayByTheRules


    malascoile wrote: »
    He has 7 All Irelands. Only 3 to catch Henry. At 28, its very possible he will surpass him.

    My question did not relate to how many All Irelands he has but rather his all round ability and the fact that he seems to be have everything Shefflin had plus more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭ PlayByTheRules


    I still stand over this. So many parts of his game are better. Better placed ball taker - almost never misses in Croker. Shefflin was known to miss a few. Better passer - that one he pinged into JonJo Farrell today was incredible. His stickwork just seems more natural than Shefflin. He really does have it all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭ TCDStudent1


    I still stand over this. So many parts of his game are better. Better placed ball taker - almost never misses in Croker. Shefflin was known to miss a few. Better passer - that one he pinged into JonJo Farrell today was incredible. His stickwork just seems more natural than Shefflin. He really does have it all.

    Shefflin was better in the air.

    Shefflin had better vision. Able to pick out a pass that nobody could see. Reid can pass a ball directly into a team-mates hand, but it's a pass others can see.

    Shefflin had more influence on his team. He played on probably the best hurling team ever, yet Kilkenny always missed him when he wasn't there. Not sure the same could be said for Reid.


    They are 2 fantastic players but if I had to choose 1, I'd still prefer shefflin on my team.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    Both Sheflin and TJ are great examples to any child playing hurling

    Keep improving and you can be the best

    Joe Canning is on the other end of the scale. He was dominating minor club games where he was 15 years of age.
    I saw him play a minor game where he got something ridiculous like 2-12


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,069 ✭✭✭ MfMan


    I actually agree that Reid is approaching Shefflin-levels of influence, which says 2 things; that he's a very good hurler indeed, and that Shefflin's greatness for all of it was maybe a bit overstated.

    I saw Joe Canning score something ridiculous like 2-12 in a senior game, and the kind of in/out match that Reid had for KK yesterday, Canning has often had for Galway but never got the credit for. (Not trying to start a comparison war or anything like.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭ larrya


    No way was Shefflin better in the air.Reid is far superior in the air.He does seem to be a more natural hurler, but Shefflin put in the hours to reach that level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭ PlayByTheRules


    I am also of the opinion that Reid is better in the air, he seems to catch about 75% cleanly no matter what type of back pressure he is under. Probably has the best paw in the game at present with Johnny Glynn absent this year.

    He is also a higher goal scorer and no sign of that stopping yet.

    By the time he is retired we will not be having this debate anymore even though I already think he is better than Shefflin ever was.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭ aidan24326


    MfMan wrote: »
    I actually agree that Reid is approaching Shefflin-levels of influence, which says 2 things; that he's a very good hurler indeed, and that Shefflin's greatness for all of it was maybe a bit overstated.

    I saw Joe Canning score something ridiculous like 2-12 in a senior game, and the kind of in/out match that Reid had for KK yesterday, Canning has often had for Galway but never got the credit for. (Not trying to start a comparison war or anything like.)

    Yes Canning scored 2-12 against Cork in Thurles a few years ago. His performances in the last 3-4 years have been up and down though and he was poor yesterday.

    Shefflin is somewhat over-rated, a creation of the media with all this King Henry nonsense. He was a very good player on a great Kilkenny team, but is fawned over a little too much.

    I'd still have him a bit ahead of TJ Reid although both of them are seriously good players.

    For me Michael Fennelly is hugely important to that Kilkenny team. He has an ability to boss the midfield proceedings and has everything you'd want from a player in that position.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 603 Gentleman Off The Pitch


    I'd also be of the opinion that Reid is much better in the air than Shefllin was, who in his latter years especially, tended to break the ball down for himself rather than catch it.

    Reid is probably the best catcher of the ball in the game at the moment in my opinion, his vertical jump is unreal

    1lcmfWk.jpg


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ tcrilly52


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Yes Canning scored 2-12 against Cork in Thurles a few years ago. His performances in the last 3-4 years have been up and down though and he was poor yesterday.

    Shefflin is somewhat over-rated, a creation of the media with all this King Henry nonsense. He was a very good player on a great Kilkenny team, but is fawned over a little too much.

    I'd still have him a bit ahead of TJ Reid although both of them are seriously good players.

    For me Michael Fennelly is hugely important to that Kilkenny team. He has an ability to boss the midfield proceedings and has everything you'd want from a player in that position.


    Good points :)
    I think Henry Shefflin was pumped up a bit, but it was difficult to see as he was part of the the most dominant Hurling team since the great Tipperary teams of the 60s and 70s (Hell Kitchen full back line, Francs Loughnane,Jimmy Doyle Generation etc) and I reckon Brian Wheelahan of Offaly would of stopped Henry Shefflin or TJ Reid Hurling as cleanly and as open as they do/did. I also think Eoin Kelly of Tipp doesn't get the recognition he deserves, 6 all stars, 2 all Ireland's and if he had an off day Tipp Lost as Lar Corbet had knees made of kit kats. Im not starting a comparison war but TJ reid and Richie are Hogan are the current best in the country along with Austin Gleeson, Seamie Callanan to name a few, Although Callanan isnt consistent with frees. Hurling is a fantastic game and the Skill level has changed so much in the last ten years alone and as much as im sick of KK winning it, they are the reason for this spike in the Level of effort and dedication across counties, even at underage level there is teams knocking on the door that ten years ago would of been walkovers, Westmeath, Carlow, Dublin, Wexford, Laois have made a fair go at minor and Under 21 in recent years and its all thanks to the Dominance of KK


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,507 ✭✭✭✭ Realt Dearg Sec


    tcrilly52 wrote: »
    Good points :)
    I think Henry Shefflin was pumped up a bit, but it was difficult to see as he was part of the the most dominant Hurling team since the great Tipperary teams of the 60s and 70s (Hell Kitchen full back line, Francs Loughnane,Jimmy Doyle Generation etc) and I reckon Brian Wheelahan of Offaly would of stopped Henry Shefflin or TJ Reid Hurling as cleanly and as open as they do/did. I also think Eoin Kelly of Tipp doesn't get the recognition he deserves, 6 all stars, 2 all Ireland's and if he had an off day Tipp Lost as Lar Corbet had knees made of kit kats. Im not starting a comparison war but TJ reid and Richie are Hogan are the current best in the country along with Austin Gleeson, Seamie Callanan to name a few, Although Callanan isnt consistent with frees. Hurling is a fantastic game and the Skill level has changed so much in the last ten years alone and as much as im sick of KK winning it, they are the reason for this spike in the Level of effort and dedication across counties, even at underage level there is teams knocking on the door that ten years ago would of been walkovers, Westmeath, Carlow, Dublin, Wexford, Laois have made a fair go at minor and Under 21 in recent years and its all thanks to the Dominance of KK

    All fair points. I think Tommy or JJ were the best hurlers of that generation, but either way, the point about the constantly elevated skill levels in the game is the key point. Anyone who looks at old matches from the 70s and 80s can easily confirm that this is an ongoing process. The skill and fitness levels are light years ahead of what they used to be. Christy Ring was right in saying 'Let no one say the best hurlers belong to the past, they're with us now and better yet to come.' We have a lot to look forward to so!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 galwaylad14


    What a player wins in his career should have little bearing on how they're viewed as an individual hurler. Teams win trophies, not individuals. If Sheflin was from Offaly and put in the exact performances he did over the years he would have been the same individual player but he wouldn't have won anything and no one would talk about him in the context of being the greatest of all time. This effects Joe Cannings reputation too, he doesn't play in a team good enough to win All Irelands so people think less of him as an individual. Someone said above that he hasn't been consistent over the last couple of years, he was top scorer from play and overall in last years championship FFS!

    But anyway back to the actual question. And again I emphasise, whichever of these is viewed as better should not be decided by who wins more All Irelands. That's just down to the team.

    TJ is easily a better hurler than Shefflin was. Much physically stronger, better in the air and contributes more from play. Shefflin was a small bit over rated, great player but had a lot of quiet games too but he played in a Kilkenny team that had probably 3 or 4 other top class forwards to pick up the slack. If TJ a has a poor game this year against a serious team then I think Kilkenny will be in trouble. Thankfully for them TJ hasn't had many bad games in the last 3 or 4 years.

    A game that's often held up as Henry Shefflins finest is the second half of the 2012 drawn final. But actually watch it back. Was he that good? He actually only has the ball in his hand I think 4 times in that second half and he only scored 1 point from play, he did well on his frees alright but the actual contribution made to the come back that day is over stated dramatically.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    tcrilly52 wrote: »
    aidan24326 wrote: »
    Yes Canning scored 2-12 against Cork in Thurles a few years ago. His performances in the last 3-4 years have been up and down though and he was poor yesterday.

    Shefflin is somewhat over-rated, a creation of the media with all this King Henry nonsense. He was a very good player on a great Kilkenny team, but is fawned over a little too much.

    I'd still have him a bit ahead of TJ Reid although both of them are seriously good players.

    For me Michael Fennelly is hugely important to that Kilkenny team. He has an ability to boss the midfield proceedings and has everything you'd want from a player in that position.


    Good points :)
    I think Henry Shefflin was pumped up a bit, but it was difficult to see as he was part of the the most dominant Hurling team since the great Tipperary teams of the 60s and 70s (Hell Kitchen full back line, Francs Loughnane,Jimmy Doyle Generation etc) and I reckon Brian Wheelahan of Offaly would of stopped Henry Shefflin or TJ Reid Hurling as cleanly and as open as they do/did. I also think Eoin Kelly of Tipp doesn't get the recognition he deserves, 6 all stars, 2 all Ireland's and if he had an off day Tipp Lost as Lar Corbet had knees made of kit kats. Im not starting a comparison war but TJ reid and Richie are Hogan are the current best in the country along with Austin Gleeson, Seamie Callanan to name a few, Although Callanan isnt consistent with frees. Hurling is a fantastic game and the Skill level has changed so much in the last ten years alone and as much as im sick of KK winning it, they are the reason for this spike in the Level of effort and dedication across counties, even at underage level there is teams knocking on the door that ten years ago would of been walkovers, Westmeath, Carlow, Dublin, Wexford, Laois have made a fair go at minor and Under 21 in recent years and its all thanks to the Dominance of KK
    I don't think KKs dominance has anything to do with other Leinster counties having 'a go'.


    Kilkenny have always been dominant in Leinster.
    Their reluctance to promote football means they are concentrating fully on hurling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 galwaylad14


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    I don't think KKs dominance has anything to do with other Leinster counties having 'a go'.


    Kilkenny have always been dominant in Leinster.
    Their reluctance to promote football means they are concentrating fully on hurling.

    There's a lot more to their dominance than just the fact they don't play football.

    There's plenty of counties out there that play virtually no hurling and just focus on football almost exclusively and yet some of them have never even won a provincial title.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭ paddy no 11


    I think Reid is better alright, I know Richie hogan isnt a full time half forward but where does he fit into the debate? Is he better again?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    I don't think KKs dominance has anything to do with other Leinster counties having 'a go'.


    Kilkenny have always been dominant in Leinster.
    Their reluctance to promote football means they are concentrating fully on hurling.

    There's a lot more to their dominance than just the fact they don't play football.

    There's plenty of counties out there that play virtually no hurling and just focus on football almost exclusively and yet some of them have never even won a provincial title.
    Three counties only


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭ Dick phelan


    I'm a neutral and imo neither are as good as DJ Carey who is the greatest hurler i have ever seen


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭ JJs Left Hand


    JJ is the greatest of all time.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 galwaylad14


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Three counties only

    I'm not sure what the three counties that actually don't promote hurling at all are but being realistic here, Longford, Louth, Leitrim, Sligo, Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh and Tyrone don't put a whole lot more into hurling than Kilkenny put into football. Yet some of them have had virtually no success at football in their history.

    It's very lazy to say they're only that good at hurling becuase they don't play football. Of course it's a bit of a help, I don't doubt that we'd have had more success over the years if there was no football in the county becuase I'm sure some of our great footballers would have been great hurlers too had they played that game instead. But even allowing for that Kilkenny still have to be doing a lot of stuff better than everyone else in terms of coaching and developing their players.

    Another interesting thing to look at is that they don't hoover up the titles at underage or anything, they win their fair share don't get me wrong but they win no more under 21 and minor titles than we do or Tipp or Clare (I haven't actually looked this up but that's certainly how it seems)

    They seem to have an ability to turn guys that were "good" minors into outstanding seniors. Obviously there's times someone like Richie Hogan comes along who's been touted as a star all the way up but an awful lot of guys that weren't outstanding minors into players that had great senior careers. The two guys named in this thread probably being a good example, certainly Shefflin is anyway and I certainly can't remember any huge hype about TJ when he was a minor and it took him a while to get established on the senior team but look at him now.

    Speaking from the perspective of my own county I can't really think of too any guys in recent years that have gone from being just decent minors into being very good senior hurlers for us.

    If you look at all our good senior players now: Canning, David Burke, Daithi Burke, Conor Whelan, the two Mannions, all of these guys were touted as stars from when they were minors.

    I often think in Galway that in terms of the senior hurling you either break into the panel it by the time you're 20 and push on to the team shortly after that or else you just forget about county hurling and focus on other priorites and hurl away with your club. There seems to be no desire for lads to stick around and stay plugging away at it and wait until they're 23 or 24 to get a chance, where as in Kilkenny it seems like these guys will do everything they can to get a chance. I suppose success breeds that too becuase Kilkenny being so successful means guys are more motivated to want to be a part of that.

    But I don't doubt that if John Joe Farrell, Ger Aylward and even TJ himself were Galway men that they'd have given it maybe 2 years on the panel and decided it wasn't going to happen for them and would have gone off to America for a couple of Summers maybe and now they'd be back hurling with their clubs and they'd be regarded as guys that are fine club hurlers and were good underage hurlers with Galway but never quiet made it. And we'd be busy bringing through the next raft of 20 year olds, some of whom will make it, some who won't and the cycle will start again but those three guys that were capable of being very good intercounty hurlers would have slipped through the net.

    Anyway that's gone a bit off topic but I was just I suppose trying to go into some of the reason why I feel Kilkenny have been so successful relative to my own county given that on the face of it we seem to be capable of producing similarly talented players at underage level.


Advertisement