Is TJ Reid a better all round player than Henry Shefflin already?

PlayByTheRules

What do others think? Looking at him in action yesterday he seems to be operating on a different level to anyone else in the country at present. He is able to play it any way you like and seems to only need a foot of space under pressure to score. He has turned himself into a pure athlete and covers the whole length of the pitch every game for attack and defense. Second to none in terms of winning the ball in the air. Also, his vision is superb and almost never gives the ball away, every pass seems to find a player able to launch an attack.

Shefflin had most of these skills too but I am starting to think that TJ is already a better player than Shefflin as he has everything Shefflin had plus more athleticism. Shefflin would rarely be seen as far back as the full back line cleaning up ball and helping his defense out. Right now TJ is looking like Hurler of the Year again for 2016.

What do others think?

keeponhurling

He has a bit to go yet before he can be compared to Henry

NIMAN

I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

If so, how can he be better than a guy who is hailed as the best ever who has won 10 AIs?

keeponhurling

NIMAN wrote: »

I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

He debuted for Kilkenny in 2007 actually, won his first All-Star in 2012

Davys Fits

His ability to make space and his left handed hurling style makes him difficult to mark for a defender. Incredible shooting and sometimes without moving from the standing position. Hes a joy to watch but hardly in the Kings realm, yet!

MfMan

Maybe, but is he better than JC? Skill wise I would say no.

Dirty Dingus McGee

MfMan wrote: »

Maybe, but is he better than JC? Skill wise I would say no.

But Hurling isn't a skills competition if it was John Troy would probably be one of the top 10 hurlers or better of all time.

Joe Canning has underachieved in his inter county career as although his skill level is incredible I don't think he's really backed it up with consistent performances of the same level, it seems he has moments of brilliance throughout his career but not long enough periods of sustained brilliance.

nice_guy80

TJ is still improving if you ask me.

Joe doesn't have enough good players around him on the galway team.

MfMan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

TJ is still improving if you ask me.

Joe doesn't have enough good players around him on the galway team.

Yes, I actually think Reid has grown into a leader on the KK team and his consistency, especially in the past year or so has improved.

JC does indeed not have enough good players around him; if Reid (or Shefflin) had to play for Galway they wouldn't have the same regard they have now, and believe me, if Canning had the luxury of playing for KK, he would at the very least be rated with the aforementioned.

It's an outright fallacy to say JC isn't consistent; very few matches pass without him having some influence on proceedings. If you watch him for as long and as closely as I have, you will realise this.

malascoile

He has 7 All Irelands. Only 3 to catch Henry. At 28, its very possible he will surpass him.

flasher0030

NIMAN wrote: »

I know nothing about hurling, but I assume this TJ Reid is new on the scene?

If so, how can he be better than a guy who is hailed as the best ever who has won 10 AIs?

I think you must be new on the scene. Or a spoofer.

Road-Hog

could it be the performance enhancing stuff that he is availing off?:D

PlayByTheRules

malascoile wrote: »

He has 7 All Irelands. Only 3 to catch Henry. At 28, its very possible he will surpass him.

My question did not relate to how many All Irelands he has but rather his all round ability and the fact that he seems to be have everything Shefflin had plus more.

PlayByTheRules

I still stand over this. So many parts of his game are better. Better placed ball taker - almost never misses in Croker. Shefflin was known to miss a few. Better passer - that one he pinged into JonJo Farrell today was incredible. His stickwork just seems more natural than Shefflin. He really does have it all.

TCDStudent1

PlayByTheRules wrote: »

I still stand over this. So many parts of his game are better. Better placed ball taker - almost never misses in Croker. Shefflin was known to miss a few. Better passer - that one he pinged into JonJo Farrell today was incredible. His stickwork just seems more natural than Shefflin. He really does have it all.

Shefflin was better in the air.

Shefflin had better vision. Able to pick out a pass that nobody could see. Reid can pass a ball directly into a team-mates hand, but it's a pass others can see.

Shefflin had more influence on his team. He played on probably the best hurling team ever, yet Kilkenny always missed him when he wasn't there. Not sure the same could be said for Reid.


They are 2 fantastic players but if I had to choose 1, I'd still prefer shefflin on my team.

nice_guy80

Both Sheflin and TJ are great examples to any child playing hurling

Keep improving and you can be the best

Joe Canning is on the other end of the scale. He was dominating minor club games where he was 15 years of age.
I saw him play a minor game where he got something ridiculous like 2-12

MfMan

I actually agree that Reid is approaching Shefflin-levels of influence, which says 2 things; that he's a very good hurler indeed, and that Shefflin's greatness for all of it was maybe a bit overstated.

I saw Joe Canning score something ridiculous like 2-12 in a senior game, and the kind of in/out match that Reid had for KK yesterday, Canning has often had for Galway but never got the credit for. (Not trying to start a comparison war or anything like.)

larrya

No way was Shefflin better in the air.Reid is far superior in the air.He does seem to be a more natural hurler, but Shefflin put in the hours to reach that level.

PlayByTheRules

I am also of the opinion that Reid is better in the air, he seems to catch about 75% cleanly no matter what type of back pressure he is under. Probably has the best paw in the game at present with Johnny Glynn absent this year.

He is also a higher goal scorer and no sign of that stopping yet.

By the time he is retired we will not be having this debate anymore even though I already think he is better than Shefflin ever was.

aidan24326

MfMan wrote: »

I actually agree that Reid is approaching Shefflin-levels of influence, which says 2 things; that he's a very good hurler indeed, and that Shefflin's greatness for all of it was maybe a bit overstated.

I saw Joe Canning score something ridiculous like 2-12 in a senior game, and the kind of in/out match that Reid had for KK yesterday, Canning has often had for Galway but never got the credit for. (Not trying to start a comparison war or anything like.)

Yes Canning scored 2-12 against Cork in Thurles a few years ago. His performances in the last 3-4 years have been up and down though and he was poor yesterday.

Shefflin is somewhat over-rated, a creation of the media with all this King Henry nonsense. He was a very good player on a great Kilkenny team, but is fawned over a little too much.

I'd still have him a bit ahead of TJ Reid although both of them are seriously good players.

For me Michael Fennelly is hugely important to that Kilkenny team. He has an ability to boss the midfield proceedings and has everything you'd want from a player in that position.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

I'd also be of the opinion that Reid is much better in the air than Shefllin was, who in his latter years especially, tended to break the ball down for himself rather than catch it.

Reid is probably the best catcher of the ball in the game at the moment in my opinion, his vertical jump is unreal

tcrilly52

aidan24326 wrote: »

Yes Canning scored 2-12 against Cork in Thurles a few years ago. His performances in the last 3-4 years have been up and down though and he was poor yesterday.

Shefflin is somewhat over-rated, a creation of the media with all this King Henry nonsense. He was a very good player on a great Kilkenny team, but is fawned over a little too much.

I'd still have him a bit ahead of TJ Reid although both of them are seriously good players.

For me Michael Fennelly is hugely important to that Kilkenny team. He has an ability to boss the midfield proceedings and has everything you'd want from a player in that position.

Good points
I think Henry Shefflin was pumped up a bit, but it was difficult to see as he was part of the the most dominant Hurling team since the great Tipperary teams of the 60s and 70s (Hell Kitchen full back line, Francs Loughnane,Jimmy Doyle Generation etc) and I reckon Brian Wheelahan of Offaly would of stopped Henry Shefflin or TJ Reid Hurling as cleanly and as open as they do/did. I also think Eoin Kelly of Tipp doesn't get the recognition he deserves, 6 all stars, 2 all Ireland's and if he had an off day Tipp Lost as Lar Corbet had knees made of kit kats. Im not starting a comparison war but TJ reid and Richie are Hogan are the current best in the country along with Austin Gleeson, Seamie Callanan to name a few, Although Callanan isnt consistent with frees. Hurling is a fantastic game and the Skill level has changed so much in the last ten years alone and as much as im sick of KK winning it, they are the reason for this spike in the Level of effort and dedication across counties, even at underage level there is teams knocking on the door that ten years ago would of been walkovers, Westmeath, Carlow, Dublin, Wexford, Laois have made a fair go at minor and Under 21 in recent years and its all thanks to the Dominance of KK

Realt Dearg Sec

tcrilly52 wrote: »

Good points
I think Henry Shefflin was pumped up a bit, but it was difficult to see as he was part of the the most dominant Hurling team since the great Tipperary teams of the 60s and 70s (Hell Kitchen full back line, Francs Loughnane,Jimmy Doyle Generation etc) and I reckon Brian Wheelahan of Offaly would of stopped Henry Shefflin or TJ Reid Hurling as cleanly and as open as they do/did. I also think Eoin Kelly of Tipp doesn't get the recognition he deserves, 6 all stars, 2 all Ireland's and if he had an off day Tipp Lost as Lar Corbet had knees made of kit kats. Im not starting a comparison war but TJ reid and Richie are Hogan are the current best in the country along with Austin Gleeson, Seamie Callanan to name a few, Although Callanan isnt consistent with frees. Hurling is a fantastic game and the Skill level has changed so much in the last ten years alone and as much as im sick of KK winning it, they are the reason for this spike in the Level of effort and dedication across counties, even at underage level there is teams knocking on the door that ten years ago would of been walkovers, Westmeath, Carlow, Dublin, Wexford, Laois have made a fair go at minor and Under 21 in recent years and its all thanks to the Dominance of KK

All fair points. I think Tommy or JJ were the best hurlers of that generation, but either way, the point about the constantly elevated skill levels in the game is the key point. Anyone who looks at old matches from the 70s and 80s can easily confirm that this is an ongoing process. The skill and fitness levels are light years ahead of what they used to be. Christy Ring was right in saying 'Let no one say the best hurlers belong to the past, they're with us now and better yet to come.' We have a lot to look forward to so!

galwaylad14

What a player wins in his career should have little bearing on how they're viewed as an individual hurler. Teams win trophies, not individuals. If Sheflin was from Offaly and put in the exact performances he did over the years he would have been the same individual player but he wouldn't have won anything and no one would talk about him in the context of being the greatest of all time. This effects Joe Cannings reputation too, he doesn't play in a team good enough to win All Irelands so people think less of him as an individual. Someone said above that he hasn't been consistent over the last couple of years, he was top scorer from play and overall in last years championship FFS!

But anyway back to the actual question. And again I emphasise, whichever of these is viewed as better should not be decided by who wins more All Irelands. That's just down to the team.

TJ is easily a better hurler than Shefflin was. Much physically stronger, better in the air and contributes more from play. Shefflin was a small bit over rated, great player but had a lot of quiet games too but he played in a Kilkenny team that had probably 3 or 4 other top class forwards to pick up the slack. If TJ a has a poor game this year against a serious team then I think Kilkenny will be in trouble. Thankfully for them TJ hasn't had many bad games in the last 3 or 4 years.

A game that's often held up as Henry Shefflins finest is the second half of the 2012 drawn final. But actually watch it back. Was he that good? He actually only has the ball in his hand I think 4 times in that second half and he only scored 1 point from play, he did well on his frees alright but the actual contribution made to the come back that day is over stated dramatically.

nice_guy80

tcrilly52 wrote: »

aidan24326 wrote: »

Yes Canning scored 2-12 against Cork in Thurles a few years ago. His performances in the last 3-4 years have been up and down though and he was poor yesterday.

Shefflin is somewhat over-rated, a creation of the media with all this King Henry nonsense. He was a very good player on a great Kilkenny team, but is fawned over a little too much.

I'd still have him a bit ahead of TJ Reid although both of them are seriously good players.

For me Michael Fennelly is hugely important to that Kilkenny team. He has an ability to boss the midfield proceedings and has everything you'd want from a player in that position.

Good points
I think Henry Shefflin was pumped up a bit, but it was difficult to see as he was part of the the most dominant Hurling team since the great Tipperary teams of the 60s and 70s (Hell Kitchen full back line, Francs Loughnane,Jimmy Doyle Generation etc) and I reckon Brian Wheelahan of Offaly would of stopped Henry Shefflin or TJ Reid Hurling as cleanly and as open as they do/did. I also think Eoin Kelly of Tipp doesn't get the recognition he deserves, 6 all stars, 2 all Ireland's and if he had an off day Tipp Lost as Lar Corbet had knees made of kit kats. Im not starting a comparison war but TJ reid and Richie are Hogan are the current best in the country along with Austin Gleeson, Seamie Callanan to name a few, Although Callanan isnt consistent with frees. Hurling is a fantastic game and the Skill level has changed so much in the last ten years alone and as much as im sick of KK winning it, they are the reason for this spike in the Level of effort and dedication across counties, even at underage level there is teams knocking on the door that ten years ago would of been walkovers, Westmeath, Carlow, Dublin, Wexford, Laois have made a fair go at minor and Under 21 in recent years and its all thanks to the Dominance of KK

I don't think KKs dominance has anything to do with other Leinster counties having 'a go'.


Kilkenny have always been dominant in Leinster.
Their reluctance to promote football means they are concentrating fully on hurling.

galwaylad14

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I don't think KKs dominance has anything to do with other Leinster counties having 'a go'.


Kilkenny have always been dominant in Leinster.
Their reluctance to promote football means they are concentrating fully on hurling.

There's a lot more to their dominance than just the fact they don't play football.

There's plenty of counties out there that play virtually no hurling and just focus on football almost exclusively and yet some of them have never even won a provincial title.

paddy no 11

I think Reid is better alright, I know Richie hogan isnt a full time half forward but where does he fit into the debate? Is he better again?

nice_guy80

galwaylad14 wrote: »

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I don't think KKs dominance has anything to do with other Leinster counties having 'a go'.


Kilkenny have always been dominant in Leinster.
Their reluctance to promote football means they are concentrating fully on hurling.

There's a lot more to their dominance than just the fact they don't play football.

There's plenty of counties out there that play virtually no hurling and just focus on football almost exclusively and yet some of them have never even won a provincial title.

Three counties only

Dick phelan

I'm a neutral and imo neither are as good as DJ Carey who is the greatest hurler i have ever seen

JJs Left Hand

JJ is the greatest of all time.

galwaylad14

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Three counties only

I'm not sure what the three counties that actually don't promote hurling at all are but being realistic here, Longford, Louth, Leitrim, Sligo, Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh and Tyrone don't put a whole lot more into hurling than Kilkenny put into football. Yet some of them have had virtually no success at football in their history.

It's very lazy to say they're only that good at hurling becuase they don't play football. Of course it's a bit of a help, I don't doubt that we'd have had more success over the years if there was no football in the county becuase I'm sure some of our great footballers would have been great hurlers too had they played that game instead. But even allowing for that Kilkenny still have to be doing a lot of stuff better than everyone else in terms of coaching and developing their players.

Another interesting thing to look at is that they don't hoover up the titles at underage or anything, they win their fair share don't get me wrong but they win no more under 21 and minor titles than we do or Tipp or Clare (I haven't actually looked this up but that's certainly how it seems)

They seem to have an ability to turn guys that were "good" minors into outstanding seniors. Obviously there's times someone like Richie Hogan comes along who's been touted as a star all the way up but an awful lot of guys that weren't outstanding minors into players that had great senior careers. The two guys named in this thread probably being a good example, certainly Shefflin is anyway and I certainly can't remember any huge hype about TJ when he was a minor and it took him a while to get established on the senior team but look at him now.

Speaking from the perspective of my own county I can't really think of too any guys in recent years that have gone from being just decent minors into being very good senior hurlers for us.

If you look at all our good senior players now: Canning, David Burke, Daithi Burke, Conor Whelan, the two Mannions, all of these guys were touted as stars from when they were minors.

I often think in Galway that in terms of the senior hurling you either break into the panel it by the time you're 20 and push on to the team shortly after that or else you just forget about county hurling and focus on other priorites and hurl away with your club. There seems to be no desire for lads to stick around and stay plugging away at it and wait until they're 23 or 24 to get a chance, where as in Kilkenny it seems like these guys will do everything they can to get a chance. I suppose success breeds that too becuase Kilkenny being so successful means guys are more motivated to want to be a part of that.

But I don't doubt that if John Joe Farrell, Ger Aylward and even TJ himself were Galway men that they'd have given it maybe 2 years on the panel and decided it wasn't going to happen for them and would have gone off to America for a couple of Summers maybe and now they'd be back hurling with their clubs and they'd be regarded as guys that are fine club hurlers and were good underage hurlers with Galway but never quiet made it. And we'd be busy bringing through the next raft of 20 year olds, some of whom will make it, some who won't and the cycle will start again but those three guys that were capable of being very good intercounty hurlers would have slipped through the net.

Anyway that's gone a bit off topic but I was just I suppose trying to go into some of the reason why I feel Kilkenny have been so successful relative to my own county given that on the face of it we seem to be capable of producing similarly talented players at underage level.

blue note

It's refreshing to see a thread like this. For years you'd be lynched on forums if you said anything that suggested in any way that shefflin wasn't the best of his generation. You could compare him to past greats like christy ring or John Keane, but any comparison to his modern peers was an insult to him and an admission of hurling ignorance in many people's eyes.

I'm sure it's the same with every generation though. I think people said the same of DJ in the 90s etc. The media looked like they wanted to crown Joe Canning as the next GOAT, but the truth is that Galway haven't been successful enough. If he was on a better team and winning all Irelands people would be glad to be alive to witness the greatest hurler of all time.

It's very hard to compare hurlers from different eras and not very meaningful. But of Henry's era, he was certainly one of the very best. I'd probably think of him, Tommy Walsh, JJ delaney, eoin kelly, Ken McGrath and Joe Canning as the ones who were that bit better than everyone else. But I find it hard to say who was actually best.
And compared to TJ - I think Henry was better, but TJ is more important because he's on an inferior team.

galwaylad14

blue note wrote: »

It's refreshing to see a thread like this. For years you'd be lynched on forums if you said anything that suggested in any way that shefflin wasn't the best of his generation. You could compare him to past greats like christy ring or John Keane, but any comparison to his modern peers was an insult to him and an admission of hurling ignorance in many people's eyes.

I'm sure it's the same with every generation though. I think people said the same of DJ in the 90s etc. The media looked like they wanted to crown Joe Canning as the next GOAT, but the truth is that Galway haven't been successful enough. If he was on a better team and winning all Irelands people would be glad to be alive to witness the greatest hurler of all time.

It's very hard to compare hurlers from different eras and not very meaningful. But of Henry's era, he was certainly one of the very best. I'd probably think of him, Tommy Walsh, JJ delaney, eoin kelly, Ken McGrath and Joe Canning as the ones who were that bit better than everyone else. But I find it hard to say who was actually best.
And compared to TJ - I think Henry was better, but TJ is more important because he's on an inferior team.

Couldn't agree more with this post. The number one reason Canning isn't rated higher than he is is down to the team he plays on, not his own performances. His performances have been outstanding over his career with Galway. Just look back at those games and I'd say in at least 50% of the games he's our top contributer in terms of scores from play, and that's not to even mention all his other qualities.

The stick he gets is outrageous at times both from Galway and opposition fans.

blue note

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with this post. The number one reason Canning isn't rated higher than he is is down to the team he plays on, not his own performances. .

The best example of this is probably Liam Watson in my opinion. Some casual hurling fans won't even have heard of him, most would say he's so good he'd have been on he Kilkenny squad, maybe even team! In truth, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd have won a HOTY and multiple all stars had he played on that Kilkenny team.

And if shefflin had played for Antrim - he'd be lucky to finish his career with a couple of all star nominations.

Agus

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I'm not sure what the three counties that actually don't promote hurling at all are but being realistic here, Longford, Louth, Leitrim, Sligo, Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh and Tyrone don't put a whole lot more into hurling than Kilkenny put into football. Yet some of them have had virtually no success at football in their history.

It's very lazy to say they're only that good at hurling becuase they don't play football. Of course it's a bit of a help, I don't doubt that we'd have had more success over the years if there was no football in the county becuase I'm sure some of our great footballers would have been great hurlers too had they played that game instead. But even allowing for that Kilkenny still have to be doing a lot of stuff better than everyone else in terms of coaching and developing their players.

Looking at the counties you name, all of them actually have had significant football success, or have very small playing pools to draw from, or have much more serious competition from other sports than Kilkenny do. There's also the fact that overall football is popular in far more counties than hurling is.

Of course the dominant status of hurling in Kilkenny isn't the only reason for the county team's success, but it's a big help.

Tombo2001

blue note wrote: »

The best example of this is probably Liam Watson in my opinion. Some casual hurling fans won't even have heard of him, most would say he's so good he'd have been on he Kilkenny squad, maybe even team! In truth, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd have won a HOTY and multiple all stars had he played on that Kilkenny team.

And if shefflin had played for Antrim - he'd be lucky to finish his career with a couple of all star nominations.

Its a very good point but the unfortunate thing is that how good a player appears if quite dependant on the players around him and how good the manager is. If you judge Messi on his Barcelona career he is arguably the best footballer ever. If you judge him on his Argentina, then he is definitely not.

GAA has so many outstanding players on the lesser teams that arguably never reached their full potential. We just don't know how good they could have been if they'd been with a Kilkenny or Tipp. That's probably the main reason why its such a pity the railway cup is gone. Objectively, I'd much rather have a strong railway cup than the aussie rules stuff.

Tombo2001

Agus wrote: »

Looking at the counties you name, all of them actually have had significant football success, or have very small playing pools to draw from, or have much more serious competition from other sports than Kilkenny do. There's also the fact that overall football is popular in far more counties than hurling is.

Of course the dominant status of hurling in Kilkenny isn't the only reason for the county team's success, but it's a big help.

That's stretching it a bit......Donegal and Tyrone have had some significant success, but they also have far larger populations than Kilkenny.....Maybe Cavan 60 years ago......but the point is well made; none of them put any big effort into hurling and they could. Much more competition from other sports? Like what?

The other point about Kilkenny is that Handball is very popular there, probably more than any other county. Its a complimentary sport to Hurling, hand eye coordination and so on; the likes of DJ was very good at both. Kilkenny is the most successful county in Handball if you look at the All Ireland honours roll.

Agus

Tombo2001 wrote: »

That's stretching it a bit......Donegal and Tyrone have had some significant success, but they also have far larger populations than Kilkenny.....Maybe Cavan 60 years ago......but the point is well made; none of them put any big effort into hurling and they could. Much more competition from other sports? Like what?

The other point about Kilkenny is that Handball is very popular there, probably more than any other county. Its a complimentary sport to Hurling, hand eye coordination and so on; the likes of DJ was very good at both. Kilkenny is the most successful county in Handball if you look at the All Ireland honours roll.

Going through the GAA histories of the various counties named, Donegal, Tyrone, Louth and Cavan all have more than one All-Ireland which presumably counts as "signifcant success" (though Louth and Cavan have not won it in a long time).

Remember that the Northern counties like Tyrone don't have a GAA playing population comparable to their overall population as obviously it's a minority sport among unionists.

Soccer would be number one for a lot of Louth, much of Donegal and Sligo (town). Junior soccer is popular in Kilkenny, but the sport is not a serious competitor to hurling to the same degree it would be in say Dundalk or Drogheda.

Most of the rest of the named counties have much smaller populations than Kilkenny.

Dick phelan

This might sound weird but for me what makes Shefflin a great is not his skill level as such, i'v seen quite a few more skilled hurlers then Shefflin and i'v only been watching the game 20 years, what made him the player he was was his ability to do things in the big games when it was needed, Canning is a great example personally i think skill wise he's better then Shefflin ever was but unlike Shefflin he has failed to produce at times when it was badly needed. In a way i'd compare Shefflin to Roy Keane, skill wise there's better then him but few had his mentality and will to win.

Swamp_Cat

nice_guy80 wrote: »

TJ is still improving if you ask me.

Joe doesn't have enough good players around him on the galway team.

Comment is looking prophetic now in 2019 concerning TJ to say the least when looking back at his club campaign & his incredible, consistently brilliant performances in the IC Championship. Before the final he was nearly the only name mentioned, other than to comment on P. Horgan's form(unreal) & S.C.'s goal+ a game & increasing leadership role.
Now, TJ has another disproportionately positive impact during a heavy defeat to a very talented team, backs to forwards, & now he's nearly off the map. Now its brothers Ronan & Paudie, Noel, Brendan M. & of course SC. All superb but should one contest be so influential, especially when TJ had a very good game. I've seen several top 3's since that didn't include him.
Should the winning of the AI weigh so heavily? As stress filled an environment as it may be, I don't believe it should be. Or a LOT less than now. SC's run of goals was a great feat of amazing consistency & skill but does it equal having a big impact in nearly/all of 140 meters throughout entire match after match? Maybe, whst do you think? I have an opinion but just don't know for sure.
Look at John McG's great 2nd min, JJ like hook on Fennelly. Thing of beauty. Well, as a KK fan I hated the result ;-) & it could've been huge moment. ...but I loved it as a so-called 'hurling man/fan'. That hook(even if unsuccessful) was more important than him scoring 3 points. Most of the time.
...that said, not all forwards are meant or able to play that role which doesn't diminish the skill they posses, just one less area of the game in which their impact is felt.
Curious what people think. All worthy candidates & I only ask because of the noticeable change in talk. The other thing people use as a reason SC should get it is being nominated for a potential 4th time & getting robbed by AG. 1st or 10th nomination should not come into the decision. Congrats to whomever wins, there's enough talent for 10 or 20 of these. A "rookie" of the year would be nice, combining League & championship.

kk.man

Henry is the greatest of them all, TJ is certainly up there but not in Shefflins company. Henry at his prime had skill but what separated him was his strength. Henry scored a goal from a penalty in an all Ireland final which seems to be a yardstick to some who judge players at this level.
They are many other attributes I would give Sheflin over Reid.

MfMan

kk.man wrote: »

Henry is the greatest of them all, TJ is certainly up there but not in Shefflins company. Henry at his prime had skill but what separated him was his strength. Henry scored a goal from a penalty in an all Ireland final which seems to be a yardstick to some who judge players at this level.
They are many other attributes I would give Sheflin over Reid.

He eschewed a chance to score another.

conor05

How does a small tiny parish Ballyhale in South Kilkenny produce hurlers like Shefflin, TJ Reid, Fennellys and a host of other class hurlers?

Decades of good hurlers come from there.

When you sit back and think about it is phenomenal really.

Tell me how

conor05 wrote: »

How does a small tiny parish Ballyhale in South Kilkenny produce hurlers like Shefflin, TJ Reid, Fennellys and a host of other class hurlers?

Decades of good hurlers come from there.

When you sit back and think about it is phenomenal really.

Success breeds success. There's probably a 9 or ten year old lad running around the back of the goals trying to puck balls back to TJ as he practices frees. In 15 years time, his name could be mentioned in the same way because he saw success, saw the effort it took, saw the respect it earned, the fun that was had in doing it and so wanted to repeat it from that early age.

The idea of this is why I love the community spirit of the GAA and hope it long continues.

Seadin

TJ wouldnt lace Shefflins boots. I personally thought DJ carey was one of the best hurlers to come out of Kilkenny. He had it all and his skill level was miles ahead of Shefflin and TJ. He had speed skill vision lovely hurler and never saw him getting involved in off the ball stuff. He was super. One of the best i have seen. Shefflin was good but i think he wasnt as dangerous as DJ especially when going for goals.

I've never seen a hurler come out of a schemozzle with the sliotar as often as TJ does. I'd love to see the stats on it.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Seadin wrote: »

TJ wouldnt lace Shefflins boots. I personally thought DJ carey was one of the best hurlers to come out of Kilkenny. He had it all and his skill level was miles ahead of Shefflin and TJ. He had speed skill vision lovely hurler and never saw him getting involved in off the ball stuff. He was super. One of the best i have seen. Shefflin was good but i think he wasnt as dangerous as DJ especially when going for goals.

Very dismissive comment, the fact that the Reid vs Shefflin discussion has been going on for a few years now shows that many people think that Reid is as least as good as Shefflin.
Personally I think that Reid is somewhat underrated by many, and is often judged solely as a forward whereas he is much more than that.

I'd love the see a breakdown of his stats for possessions won, scores set up, fouls against etc. when compared to the rest of the top players in the Championship. I'd imagine that not only was he the top scorer but that he would come out near the top in a lot of other areas too

I'd agree however that DJ was the most naturally gifted of the three and probably was before his time. Imagine if he came onto the Kilkenny scene at 18 years of age in 1998 rather than 1988, with the quality of the team around him and the improvement in training approaches that occurred around the mid 00s

MfMan

Seadin wrote: »

TJ wouldnt lace Shefflins boots. I personally thought DJ carey was one of the best hurlers to come out of Kilkenny. He had it all and his skill level was miles ahead of Shefflin and TJ. He had speed skill vision lovely hurler and never saw him getting involved in off the ball stuff. He was super. One of the best i have seen. Shefflin was good but i think he wasnt as dangerous as DJ especially when going for goals.

In a fit of revisionism I agree about Carey; at his best he was deadly dangerous. In fairness to Reid, as good as Shefflin undoubtedly was he seldom produced performances like Reid's v. Galway this year in Nowlan park.

Of course, Canning uber alles!

Sarsfields would be Galway's equivalent of Ballyhale; produced tons of great players from a small rural parish.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd have TJ ahead i think, certainly as a defender i'd prefer to mark Shefflin as marking TJ would be a nightmare. TJ's ball winning ability is superb, his work rate, scoring ability, vision and skill make him that bit more dangerous, one of Shefflins best traits which rarely gets mentioned was his decision making, almost always made the right play.

As good as they are though I think from a scoring perspective and especially ball in hand Seamie Callanan is better than both.

Swamp_Cat

Tombo2001 wrote: »

That's stretching it a bit......Donegal and Tyrone have had some significant success, but they also have far larger populations than Kilkenny.....Maybe Cavan 60 years ago......but the point is well made; none of them put any big effort into hurling and they could. Much more competition from other sports? Like what?

The other point about Kilkenny is that Handball is very popular there, probably more than any other county. Its a complimentary sport to Hurling, hand eye coordination and so on; the likes of DJ was very good at both. Kilkenny is the most successful county in Handball if you look at the All Ireland honours roll.

Definitely believe that the popularity of Handball in KK & the availability of facilities, old & new is an important contributor. DJ is known for it but many others play for fun or hand-eye coordination practice, etc., including a current star w/amazing first touch, DJ's cousin R. Hogan who I know has at the least a minor AI win & maybe a world title as well(not sure). If he'd continued as an adult he likely would have achieved more. Maybe not as much as DJ but who knows.