Facebook allowing removte working is the end of our tech boom.

zerosugarbuzz · 10-06-2021 5:35pm

85603 wrote: »

D4 is too far out of town for them.

And youd be breakin up deh communitie.

Don't get dizzy now, looking down from such a great height.

VinLieger · 10-06-2021 5:47pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

I mean you're earning the money in one country, say Ireland, you have to pay income tax, PRSI etc. do you also have to pay income tax/social security contributions in the country you're based in too? That would amount to one hell of a tax bill.

And if you're only paying the main tax in the country you earn the money, how can you avail of your resident country's services, like health, childcare and education?

This should answer your questions https://www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/moving-to-or-from-ireland/leaving-ireland/if-you-are-going-abroad-to-work.aspx.

Also you dont need to pay taxes or live here to avail of healthcare, but i dont understand why you would need to use childcare or education if you were living in another country?

ebbsy · 10-06-2021 5:53pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

I mean you're earning the money in one country, say Ireland, you have to pay income tax, PRSI etc. do you also have to pay income tax/social security contributions in the country you're based in too? That would amount to one hell of a tax bill.

And if you're only paying the main tax in the country you earn the money, how can you avail of your resident country's services, like health, childcare and education?

You get a tax credit for both countries.

Pixel Eater · 10-06-2021 7:47pm

VinLieger wrote: »

This should answer your questions https://www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/moving-to-or-from-ireland/leaving-ireland/if-you-are-going-abroad-to-work.aspx.

Also you dont need to pay taxes or live here to avail of healthcare, but i dont understand why you would need to use childcare or education if you were living in another country?

Ah okay. And I meant if you were getting free childcare while living in, say France, while paying your taxes in Ireland. But your link explains things a bit better.

Beasty · 10-06-2021 8:40pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

How does tax work if you're based abroad? Will you have to pay double tax?

In London, for example, tenants have to pay council tax which you don't have to pay in Ireland.

You pay tax where you are tax resident. You may also have to pay tax in another jurisdiction if you spend a certain amount of time working in that jurisdiction (For example Canada will tax you if you spend a single day in the country working - other countries may have a threshhold of 1 or 2 months)

Any tax paid in the other jurisdiction is creditable against tax due on the same income in the country of tax residence. Hence you should not pay double taxation but will end up paying the higher of the 2 rates on the relevant income

A bigger issue here is the tax residence of the company (Facebook) and whether they end up creating taxable presences in those other countries. They will need to apply local employment taxes, but also will pay tax on profits earned in any "permanent establishment" (a tax concept defined in each individual tax jurisdiction, but generally established under OECD guidelines) will be taxed in that country. If it is deemed a branch of the Irish company then Irish tax is also chargeable, but that will usually be extinguished by the local tax paid

riclad · 10-06-2021 8:47pm

i don,t think staff will be allowed work from home 5 days a week, maybe 3 or 4 days a week.
i think facebook needs office in eu to comply with gdpr data regulations.
the uk has left the eu .where are they going to go, taxs are higher in other countrys ,most citys have high rents in most countrys in the eu.
its too early to say what will happen ,maybe we will know in 12 months time.

arctictree · 10-06-2021 8:55pm

Beasty wrote: »

(For example Canada will tax you if you spend a single day in the country working - other countries may have a threshhold of 1 or 2 months)

How is that actually enforced in reality? So if I go for a business meeting in Canada that lasts a couple of days, I'm supposed to pay tax there?!

Beasty · 10-06-2021 9:11pm

arctictree wrote: »

How is that actually enforced in reality? So if I go for a business meeting in Canada that lasts a couple of days, I'm supposed to pay tax there?!

Yes - your employer is obliged to pay it over

I've avoided Canada for that very reason. However my employer has significant operations in the US and this specific issue has arisen. The employer files appropriate returns and pays over any tax due

I've no idea what checks they may do in, for example, immigration. I suspect many smaller employers are not aware of the specifics here. I have dealt with dozens of tax authorities over the years and this is the most extreme example I have encountered

Charles Babbage · 10-06-2021 9:14pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

It will sit fine with many people, especially if London is on the list of cities to live. If you're Italian, why live in Dublin and pay more taxes and same rent as London?

Because you need a visa to live in London?

Shebean · 10-06-2021 9:23pm

We've at least one meat packing plant uses foreign workers who pay tax in their native country, because it's cheaper labour for the Irish company. Maybe Facebook are catching up?

It will be interesting if it pans out that way. Imagine all the big tech companies based here but employing nobody? We'll see if all those jobs are the real reason we treat them so well on taxation.

Beasty · 10-06-2021 9:36pm

Shebean wrote: »

We've at least one meat packing plant uses foreign workers who pay tax in their native country, because it's cheaper labour for the Irish company. Maybe Facebook are catching up?

It will be interesting if it pans out that way. Imagine all the big tech companies based here but employing nobody? We'll see if all those jobs are the real reason we treat them so well on taxation.

If they are working here they will pay tax here. I presume they will be on the minimum wage, but that will presumably be quite a bit more than they can earn in their home country. It's not that they are cheaper - I suspect it's that no-one in Ireland will do that job and indeed many may stay on Government supports rather than working for the minimum wage in a meat plant

10-06-2021 9:40pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

They will hire for the Dublin office but those employees won't have to be living here or paying income taxes here. Get it?

They can only hire where they have a legal presence. And that was always the case. I think that they are saying to people living in countries where Facebook already pays corporate tax that they can stay there.

I've heard the opposite story about this. Another big US company which is big into online shopping has told its staff to get back to Dublin as soon as possible.

10-06-2021 9:41pm

Beasty wrote: »

If they are working here they will pay tax here. I presume they will be on the minimum wage, but that will presumably be quite a bit more than they can earn in their home country. It's not that they are cheaper - I suspect it's that no-one in Ireland will do that job and indeed many may stay on Government supports rather than working for the minimum wage in a meat plant

Of course in the absence of a large pool of labour the companies would have to hire locals.

Shebean · 10-06-2021 9:56pm

Beasty wrote: »

If they are working here they will pay tax here. I presume they will be on the minimum wage, but that will presumably be quite a bit more than they can earn in their home country. It's not that they are cheaper - I suspect it's that no-one in Ireland will do that job and indeed many may stay on Government supports rather than working for the minimum wage in a meat plant

It came to light during a Covid outbreak.

It includes subcontractors and agencies, and results in foreign workers in Irish meat factories paying tax in Poland instead of Ireland.
The Journal claims to have seen documents that reveal a scheme in which foreign workers in Irish meat factories were registered as sole traders in Poland — and paid their tax in that country instead of Ireland.
This meant the firm did not have to pay tax and PRSI contributions for those workers in this country.
It also meant the workers were not entitled to any of the social security supports, such as illness benefit payments from the Irish government.https://www.oceanfm.ie/2020/07/30/questions-over-how-meat-factories-recruit-and-employ-foreign-workers/

A great number of Romanian workers for years were cheated out of their social security rights in Ireland by the employment agency who was hiring them to work in several meat plants in Munster, a union representative has told the Oireachtas committee on Covid-19.
Nora Labo of the Cork Operative Butchers’ Society - a branch of the Independent Workers’ Union - said the Romanian nationals were employed as self-employed contractors declared in Poland.
She said “all their contributions were sent to Polish, not Irish revenue, even though all these people were working full time in Ireland for years and had no ties to Poland”.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/overseas-meat-plant-workers-cheated-out-of-social-security-rights-1.4329467

VinLieger · 11-06-2021 11:24am

fvp4 wrote: »

I've heard the opposite story about this. Another big US company which is big into online shopping has told its staff to get back to Dublin as soon as possible.

Yeah this started happening last year with the big companies like Google FB et al, from what i was told revenue basically said to them their employees registered as working in Irish offices need to be living here or there's gonna be a whole heap of tax and legal issues.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-tells-workers-to-return-to-country-where-they-are-employed-1.4367674

Fred Cryton · 11-06-2021 3:14pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah this started happening last year with the big companies like Google FB et al, from what i was told revenue basically said to them their employees registered as working in Irish offices need to be living here or there's gonna be a whole heap of tax and legal issues.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-tells-workers-to-return-to-country-where-they-are-employed-1.4367674

It sounds to me like Facebook are accepting all those legal and tax issues for the designated 7 or 8 European countries. After that it's up to the employee where they want to live.

Bad for Dublin.

PaybackPayroll · 11-06-2021 3:18pm

Beasty wrote: »

If they are working here they will pay tax here. I presume they will be on the minimum wage, but that will presumably be quite a bit more than they can earn in their home country. It's not that they are cheaper - I suspect it's that no-one in Ireland will do that job and indeed many may stay on Government supports rather than working for the minimum wage in a meat plant

Not sure of the ins and outs of this, but I believe you have to be here 183 days to be tax resident. It might be possible that they are tax resident elsewhere and do seasonal labour in Ireland

Mongfinder General · 11-06-2021 3:23pm

riclad wrote: »

i don,t think staff will be allowed work from home 5 days a week, maybe 3 or 4 days a week.
i think facebook needs office in eu to comply with gdpr data regulations.
the uk has left the eu .where are they going to go, taxs are higher in other whet countrys ,most citys have high rents in most countrys in the eu.
its too early to say what will happen ,maybe we will know in 12 months time.

Taxes are higher? Higher than 50% of everything you earn above €35k? Because that’s what Ireland has to offer right now.

blackwhite · 11-06-2021 3:25pm

PaybackPayroll wrote: »

Not sure of the ins and outs of this, but I believe you have to be here 183 days to be tax resident. It might be possible that they are tax resident elsewhere and do seasonal labour in Ireland

You don't need to be tax resident here to fall subject to income tax.

If you are tax resident in Ireland you are taxed in Ireland on all world income, but with tax credits granted for most taxes paid overseas (with a few exceptions).

If you are non-tax resident in Ireland you are taxed on all income earned in Ireland, but not taxed on any income earned outside of Ireland.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/tax-residence/index.aspx

VinLieger · 11-06-2021 3:37pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

It sounds to me like Facebook are accepting all those legal and tax issues for the designated 7 or 8 European countries. After that it's up to the employee where they want to live.

Bad for Dublin.

At this stage you are just intentionally misunderstanding this because its been explained to you how your wrong several times now

Fred Cryton · 11-06-2021 4:15pm

VinLieger wrote: »

At this stage you are just intentionally misunderstanding this because its been explained to you how your wrong several times now

Did you ever think you could be wrong in your opinion?

The tax lawyers and other experts quoted in the Irishtimes are convinced this is a very significant change with wide ranging impact on ireland. You know more than them?

VinLieger · 12-06-2021 8:32am

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Did you ever think you could be wrong in your opinion?

The tax lawyers and other experts quoted in the Irishtimes are convinced this is a very significant change with wide ranging impact on ireland. You know more than them?

Because I work for a tech company that would be considered large globally but still nowhere near a FB or Google level and we don't allow and aren't gonna allow similar schemes due to how difficult they are to run. Very very few tech companies based in Dublin have corporate entities like Google and FB do in multiple other EU countries which is the first requirement of something like this so no I don't believe I am wrong.

Mongfinder General · 12-06-2021 8:59am

VinLieger wrote: »

Because I work for a tech company that would be considered large globally but still nowhere near a FB or Google level and we don't allow and aren't gonna allow similar schemes due to how difficult they are to run. Very very few tech companies based in Dublin have corporate entities like Google and FB do in multiple other EU countries which is the first requirement of something like this so no I don't believe I am wrong.

This fella appears to be worried. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-s-tax-rates-a-major-disincentive-for-remote-workers-says-varakdar-1.4591155?mode=amp

VinLieger · 12-06-2021 9:08am

Mongfinder General wrote: »

This fella appears to be worried. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-s-tax-rates-a-major-disincentive-for-remote-workers-says-varakdar-1.4591155?mode=amp

Like others have previously mentioned tax rates and living costs are part of the calculation for pay rates in large multinational companies like this. Someone who is earning 100k in Ireland who chooses to move to an island in the Mediterranean where income tax and living costs are less will absolutely see a reduction in their salary. It will be a part of the agreement and contract change these companies will insist on for any employee choosing to do this.

We might indeed see people moving but it remains to be seen the actual impact and it is definitely not the end of the world scenario some in this thread are masturbating over.

Mongfinder General · 12-06-2021 9:33am

VinLieger wrote: »

Like others have previously mentioned tax rates and living costs are part of the calculation for pay rates in large multinational companies like this. Someone who is earning 100k in Ireland who chooses to move to an island in the Mediterranean where income tax and living costs are less will absolutely see a reduction in their salary. It will be a part of the agreement and contract change these companies will insist on for any employee choosing to do this.

We might indeed see people moving but it remains to be seen the actual impact and it is definitely not the end of the world scenario some in this thread are masturbating over.

So in effect, what you are saying is that those who choose to live in a cheaper jurisdiction will be paid less.

Why hire Pat in Dublin when Miroslav in Slovakia will do the job for €20k less per year? And the person who is currently being paid a higher wage in Ireland won’t be wanted long term - although it’s not that easy to shift permanent staff in Ireland.

Varadkar is probably the most savvy politician in government at the moment. He sees what’s coming in this sphere. Earlier in the week he was talking about getting staff back into offices early. He knows that the Marginal rate tax payers have been unfairly burdened for decades. But now many of them have the opportunity to rationalise their tax liability out of state. This will mean more or higher taxes on the remainder or really biting the bullet and cutting spending.

mvl · 12-06-2021 9:34am

GreeBo wrote: »

Sure, but they are not paying the same as they pay their employees in the states.
Facebook (and every other company) will alter your salary if you move country.

As long as the career progression is sustained, I don't really see a problem with that (even if altering salary, the "new" one could still be way above the local IT job market); my guess is there would be employees taking such opportunity, for reasons like ... they have no other ties to Ireland, or might even be in different stage in their lives than when they got the job here.

joseywhales · 12-06-2021 12:35pm

This altering salary is nonsense. Become a contractor, set up a a one man/woman company pay 5k insurance, work from anywhere. It's what I've been doing for the last 5 years, noone seems to give a **** as long as the work is getting done. If they do not give me regular increases I will just find another remote gig. It's a market place, they don't get to decide what I should earn

VinLieger · 12-06-2021 2:12pm

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So in effect, what you are saying is that those who choose to live in a cheaper jurisdiction will be paid less.

Why hire Pat in Dublin when Miroslav in Slovakia will do the job for €20k less per year? And the person who is currently being paid a higher wage in Ireland won’t be wanted long term - although it’s not that easy to shift permanent staff in Ireland.

Right so exactly like they can currently already do and have been able to do for years? Did you travel here from the 90s with this argument?

Mongfinder General · 12-06-2021 3:42pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Right so exactly like they can currently already do and have been able to do for years? Did you travel here from the 90s with this argument?

Able to do so for years? I along with hundreds of colleagues was not allowed to wfh before Covid. The WFH/WFA arrangements only became the dominant mode of working in the past 15 months. Most of the people I work with do not want to come into the office and several staff in my department work overseas. So, it simply wasn’t a choice for a large number of people in the work force. It is now.

As for jacking off all over the thread, I see where the OP is coming from. About time the welfare lifers got fed food stamps and clothing vouchers. At some point, an Irish government will have to say enough and make the tough decisions on spending because the tax take won’t cover it.

12-06-2021 5:19pm

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Able to do so for years? I along with hundreds of colleagues was not allowed to wfh before Covid. The WFH/WFA arrangements only became the dominant mode of working in the past 15 months. Most of the people I work with do not want to come into the office and several staff in my department work overseas. So, it simply wasn’t a choice for a large number of people in the work force. It is now.

As for jacking off all over the thread, I see where the OP is coming from. About time the welfare lifers got fed food stamps and clothing vouchers. At some point, an Irish government will have to say enough and make the tough decisions on spending because the tax take won’t cover it.

In tech it wasn't hugely unusual tbh. Eg I know developers who worked in Ireland and moved back to Brazil. Basically they effectively contracted but still worked with Irish teams etc. I was offered a role pre pandemic to work from home, didn't appeal to me at the time but it wasn't remotely unusual for them to hire as permanent. Bigger MNCs like dell have been pushing wfh for years. The pandemic simply accelerated it.

VinLieger · 12-06-2021 7:07pm

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Able to do so for years? I along with hundreds of colleagues was not allowed to wfh before Covid. The WFH/WFA arrangements only became the dominant mode of working in the past 15 months. Most of the people I work with do not want to come into the office and several staff in my department work overseas. So, it simply wasn’t a choice for a large number of people in the work force. It is now.

Are you intentionally misunderstanding the very obvious point I was making about your fallacious reasoning??

Why hire Pat in Dublin when Miroslav in Slovakia will do the job for €20k less per year?

What was stopping them doing this in the last 20 years?

Any company in the world who wanted to hire people for less could have done exactly this and in fact many have which is why we have so many indian call centres.

The moving from an office environment to a wfh system changes nothing about these economics that already existed for over 2 decades.

IE. If they wanted to pay people less for doing the same job in a different country they could have all along and this changes absolutely nothing. The only difference is some people currently employed here might chose to move to their home countries if allowed. This sytem still will require approval for anyone doing it and the entire company isn't about to decentralise across 8 different European countries and anyone who believes this is beyond clueless to how these companies work.

Mongfinder General wrote: »

As for jacking off all over the thread, I see where the OP is coming from. About time the welfare lifers got fed food stamps and clothing vouchers. At some point, an Irish government will have to say enough and make the tough decisions on spending because the tax take won’t cover it.

Jesus, thats some fierce bigotry you've got going on there.

coastwatch · 12-06-2021 7:41pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Right so exactly like they can currently already do and have been able to do for years? Did you travel here from the 90s with this argument?

Yes, but 15 months of pandemic has made WFH / remote working perfectly normal, and reportedly, more productive. First in the queue for remote working would be Facebook's and Google's european commuters, who would have flown in to Dublin on a Monday morning and back out on a Friday.

Mongfinder General · 12-06-2021 8:22pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Are you intentionally misunderstanding the very obvious point I was making about your fallacious reasoning??

What was stopping them doing this in the last 20 years?

Any company in the world who wanted to hire people for less could have done exactly this and in fact many have which is why we have so many indian call centres.

The moving from an office environment to a wfh system changes nothing about these economics that already existed for over 2 decades.

IE. If they wanted to pay people less for doing the same job in a different country they could have all along and this changes absolutely nothing. The only difference is some people currently employed here might chose to move to their home countries if allowed. This sytem still will require approval for anyone doing it and the entire company isn't about to decentralise across 8 different European countries and anyone who believes this is beyond clueless to how these companies work.

Jesus, thats some fierce bigotry you've got going on there.

I can read and comprehend thanks. I’m disagreeing with you because my experience of the past 15 months tells me so.

Why couldn’t they have done so in the past 20 years? I’m going to take a shot in the dark here but I’m guessing it’s because we didn’t have a major pandemic that forced most workplaces to devolve and adopt a BCP. Despite options existing for 20 years, they were not taken because what organisation wants to move to wfh/wfa over night, which is what happened in March 2020 - a forced change.

Now that systems are tried, tested and relied upon in foreign jurisdictions, businesses and individuals will have more confidence in engaging in extra territorial working relationships. This in turn enables a business to be more expansive in its approach to hiring. A phallic prognosis.

So I’m a bigot in your esteemed opinion. You’ll be calling me a racist next. Long term layabouts should get the bare essentials. Nothing more.

12-06-2021 8:28pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

They will hire for the Dublin office but those employees won't have to be living here or paying income taxes here. Get it?

If you earn the income in Ireland, you must pay the tax in Ireland. The eu operates a 'tax at source' system

coastwatch · 12-06-2021 8:32pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

If you earn the income in Ireland, you must pay the tax in Ireland. The eu operates a 'tax at source' system

Does the same apply to "contractors"?

12-06-2021 8:36pm

coastwatch wrote: »

Does the same apply to "contractors"?

I couldn't say for everyone but it did for me when I was self employed.

odyssey06 · 12-06-2021 8:38pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

If you earn the income in Ireland, you must pay the tax in Ireland. The eu operates a 'tax at source' system

Except for PRSI and maybe USC?
Might be wrong but thought that is due in country of residence.

Sunny Disposition · 12-06-2021 8:38pm

Realistically it’s unlikely non Irish people will stay here if they can work in their home countries.
I think our economic model is under huge threat now, corporate tax rate is almost certain to rise and remote working will pose another threat.
As a city Dublin is in for a very uncertain few years. Thousands, probably tens of thousands, of people who came to the city for jobs are going to have the option to leave. People who in previous years would have been arriving to take jobs now will be encouraged to work remotely.
There are pluses for Dublin, it’ll help its congestion and the overpriced property market, but the effect over 20 years mightn’t be as positive for the city in isolation.

Dyr · 12-06-2021 9:06pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Realistically it’s unlikely non Irish people will stay here if they can work in their home countries.
I think our economic model is under huge threat now, corporate tax rate is almost certain to rise and remote working will pose another threat.
As a city Dublin is in for a very uncertain few years. Thousands, probably tens of thousands, of people who came to the city for jobs are going to have the option to leave. People who in previous years would have been arriving to take jobs now will be encouraged to work remotely.
There are pluses for Dublin, it’ll help its congestion and the overpriced property market, but the effect over 20 years mightn’t be as positive for the city in isolation.

Imagine, Dublin might turn back into a liveable city rather than just another globalopolis. We might not even hit our target of having a hotel on every corner by 2025. Dark times.

Sunny Disposition · 12-06-2021 9:36pm

Bambi wrote: »

Imagine, Dublin might turn back into a liveable city rather than just another globalopolis. We might not even hit our target of having a hotel on every corner by 2025. Dark times.

Fully agree it is a balls of a place at the moment, grand for people who work in Google and are single, but is way too expensive for most ordinary people and has been for nearly 20 years.
Belfast is a worse balls of a place, for different reasons. But in its defence an ordinary fella can raise a family there. The fact is Belfast is two hours away, Dublin’s economy and property sector are not as robust as people think they are.

SouthWesterly · 13-06-2021 12:31am

I already know a company in Ireland who has said all staff can work remotely and has hired someone in a different country recently

Jim2007 · 13-06-2021 12:48am

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Why hire Pat in Dublin when Miroslav in Slovakia will do the job for €20k less per year?

Because there are not enough Pats or Miroslavs with the IQ and skills to work for FB, Google etc… it’s not a question of finding cheap ones, it a question of finding any at all!

Google opened a development center in Zürich a while back, one of the most expensive cities in the world, they did it not because it was cheap, but in the hope they might find a couple of Hans-Ruedis to add to the Pats and Mirosslavs.

If you were referring to the big outsourcing firms you might have a case.

Gradius · 13-06-2021 4:06pm

Anecdote alert!

Every single person I know in Dublin is seriously contemplating leaving, or have already left. Including native Dubliners. All willing to take serious risks employment-wise rather than the alternative property trap.

Leprechaun economics, as mentioned elsewhere, may have it's comeuppance on the horizon.

13-06-2021 6:27pm

Gradius wrote: »

Anecdote alert!

Every single person I know in Dublin is seriously contemplating leaving, or have already left. Including native Dubliners. All willing to take serious risks employment-wise rather than the alternative property trap.

Leprechaun economics, as mentioned elsewhere, may have it's comeuppance on the horizon.

Cool but then you also have people like myself who are going to choose to work from elsewhere in Ireland.... The housing issue is very much so a thing but plenty are going to relocate to other locations in country and buy.

Fred Cryton · 13-06-2021 8:07pm

Mr.S wrote: »

Back to the point of the OP - if FB Ireland contracted staff choose to work from X country, you can be 100% sure if they stay on a EUHQ contract but work (for example) from Spain, their salary and compensation package will be lower. So while some people will gladly take the pay-cut, others won't. It will effectively level out.

Where i think you are wrong is that given the option, pretty much 100% of non-Irish will work for lower pay in their home country rather than higher pay in Dublin. Assuming career progression is not affected too much.

It is a massive culture shock for continental Europeans to live in dublin. Most think it is run-down and massively over-expensive. They are also not blind, they see a certain class of people on welfare living in the city centre at taxpayer expense engaging in anti-social behaviour, and they do not like it one bit.

13-06-2021 8:13pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Where i think you are wrong is that given the option, pretty much 100% of non-Irish will work for lower pay in their home country rather than higher pay in Dublin. Assuming career progression is not affected too much.

It is a massive culture shock for continental Europeans to live in dublin. Most think it is run-down and massively over-expensive. They are also not blind, they see a certain class of people on welfare living in the city centre at taxpayer expense engaging in anti-social behaviour, and they do not like it one bit.

Wouldn't say a hundred percent is correct at all. Plenty of developers in Ireland who might not be Irish but have very much so established lives here with families and children. So saying they all want to leave is not accurate.

Hamachi · 13-06-2021 8:56pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Where i think you are wrong is that given the option, pretty much 100% of non-Irish will work for lower pay in their home country rather than higher pay in Dublin. Assuming career progression is not affected too much.

It is a massive culture shock for continental Europeans to live in dublin. Most think it is run-down and massively over-expensive. They are also not blind, they see a certain class of people on welfare living in the city centre at taxpayer expense engaging in anti-social behaviour, and they do not like it one bit.

Nothing much to add to this thread except there seems to be an assumption that the entire employee base of MNCs is non-Irish.

I work for one of the global tech companies in an engineering role. The total headcount across all functions in Ireland is ~3K. In my company, I guess around 65% of the staff are Irish. I can state for a fact that most of them aren’t going anywhere. A few have relocated outside Dublin, but none that I know of, have left the jurisdiction.

Amongst the non-Irish, quite a few of the Europeans are married to or are in relationships with Irish people. This is particularly true of the Germans, Dutch, and Scandinavians, but also to a lesser extent of Italians, Spanish, and Eastern Europeans. Most of those people are pretty well embedded here.

There’s also quite a few Asians, Indians and Chinese primarily, who tend to be more insular, but I’d be surprised if opt to leave Ireland en-masse.

I think a significant number of the 20-something continental Europeans who have few roots here and are mobile will relocate. However, in the case of my particular company they are no more than 15%-20% of all employees.

Liam32123 · 13-06-2021 9:40pm

Party is over guys. Corporation Tax will be equal for big tech everywhere in Europe soon. Facebook's action was just the first of a long series.

And in the end, this is right. You cannot base forever your economy on the fortune of other countries' companies

riclad · 13-06-2021 10:39pm

If every corporation has to pay 15 per cent tax well then there's not much point in going to Ireland apart from Google , tech company's needs a euro office in order to process EU data under gdpr regulations
I think there's a problem in that we can hardly provide good quality rental units for any new company's who might open an office here

Liam32123 · 13-06-2021 11:34pm

No, they are just going to settle wherever else in Europe, given that taxation will be the same in any Member State. Don't you think they will definitely prefer countries like Greece, Spain and Italy for a better living?

Facebook allowing removte working is the end of our tech boom.

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