Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
29-05-2019, 09:24   #1
Kivaro
Registered User
 
Kivaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,322
Why we can't have nice things anymore

Festivals, marts, creches, play centres, outdoor parks, and other small businesses around the country are closing down due to exaggerated insurance claims and corresponding insurance costs.

One of the biggest adventure playgrounds in the country had to remove two trampolines from its grounds after its insurance was hiked by €25,000 ........ just for the two trampolines alone. And that's after no claims on those trampolines in the last 15 years. 61 play centres have been threatened with closure this year alone. (From the Irish Independent piece this morning: They're going to close down the country).

Looking at the problem, we have judges awarding ludicrous, non-justifiable awards to claimants; many of whom are serial claimants.
We have an inept Government minister Michael D'Arcy, who for the last 2 years have repeatedly told us ad nauseum on various television programs that he is making great progress in targeting insurance costs.
We have an obvious insurance cartel in this country, who are exacerbating the problem so much that the EU had to send in a team to investigate their practices. Unfortunately, the Insurance cartel know that this formal antitrust investigation will take years to complete, and will gleefully money grab from us while they still allowed to do so.

And then we have the fraudsters, which without a shadow of a doubt, make up the vast majority of claimants in this country.
Case in point (From the examiner this morning): A study has found 100% of Irish whiplash patients attending a spine specialist pursued lawsuits — but the visits almost always stopped once the legal action was settled. Only 3% continued with follow-up treatment when litigation ended. That fact alone speaks volumes.

Since the government is like a deer in the headlights tackling this issue and just watching businesses closing down (and people losing jobs) around the country due to insurance costs, and since Judges will not change their "ways" of awarding payouts that are multiples greater than other parts of Europe, let's have a referendum to drive down these compensation pay-outs.
It is obvious that the current government and solicitor firms do not want this problem solved, so let the people decide .............. in a referendum.
Kivaro is offline  
Advertisement
29-05-2019, 10:14   #2
TuringBot47
Registered User
 
TuringBot47's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kivaro View Post
Case in point (From the examiner this morning): A study has found 100% of Irish whiplash patients attending a spine specialist pursued lawsuits — but the visits almost always stopped once the legal action was settled. Only 3% continued with follow-up treatment when litigation ended. That fact alone speaks volumes.
Not volumes... a "spine specialist" might've been needed for credibility in court, but a normal physio might be enough to treat them on a longer term basis.
TuringBot47 is offline  
29-05-2019, 10:15   #3
riffmongous
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,541
But what to actually do... The problem being the center and middle classes don't usually do anything except complain and sneer at any actual attempts to act

Set up a petition there, and I'll sign it and share it
riffmongous is offline  
Thanks from:
29-05-2019, 10:22   #4
Wabbit Ears
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,665
Our local Sonairte closed its doors to the public because of this. Randomers suing because they had minor injuries on a woodland trail. I think its re-opened in a limited capacity since then but the truth of it all is some random judge sitting in his ivory tower decided that he should ruin it for everyone. I don't hate on the claimants, sure if the Judges are just handing out huge sums of cash on a whim why wouldn't they?

https://www.independent.ie/regionals...-36076095.html
Wabbit Ears is offline  
Thanks from:
29-05-2019, 10:23   #5
VinLieger
Registered User
 
VinLieger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,769
Hopefully swingapalooza causes enough chaos for them that they start to properly tackles the issue
VinLieger is offline  
Advertisement
29-05-2019, 10:24   #6
sbsquarepants
Registered User
 
sbsquarepants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kivaro View Post
And then we have the fraudsters, which without a shadow of a doubt, make up the vast majority of claimants in this country.
.
Not a chance - the absolute vast majority of insurance claims are legit.

Not to mention the enormous number of valid claims which aren't pursued because it just wouldn't be worth the hassle (I personally have had 2 over the years, practically everyone I know of has had at least one)

The problem (if you ask me) is down to an insurance cartel - there's money to be made and they want to make it. It's as simple as that.

When the government legally forces you to buy a product off a mere handful of companies - the temptation on those companies to take the piss is just too much to resist.
sbsquarepants is offline  
Thanks from:
29-05-2019, 10:25   #7
TuringBot47
Registered User
 
TuringBot47's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 327
The problem may be the lump sum nature of these things.
And an insurance company wanting to know the cost up front to deduct it from their pool of money.

Where it probably needs some form of annual payout, regular review of the injury, assessment of money lost due to job loss/etc.

I certainly wouldn't want a measly €3k for a bad back problem potentially for life, or something that will inherently weaken my back permanently.
Like a crashed car, your spine may never completely be as strong as before the crash, ligaments stretched, muscles damaged etc.

So I'd say it's the big lump sum payout that is the issue here, not the idea of ongoing care for someone who had whiplash (which covers practically all forms of spinal injuries)
TuringBot47 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
29-05-2019, 10:25   #8
Samuel T. Cogley
Registered User
 
Samuel T. Cogley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,643
Not everything can be solved by a referendum. True a referendum can be held on ordinary legislation, but there's a reason this has never happened, it's simply not needed. All that's needed is for legislation to be introduced you can do that by writing to your TD etc.
Samuel T. Cogley is offline  
Thanks from:
29-05-2019, 10:26   #9
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,933
It can be easy to dismiss *some* claims as being fantastical until you dig a bit deeper into them.

Someone I know sued a fast food company because he had bitten into his food and a metal washer was in it, he broke a tooth and ended up with a five digit payout. After it was in the papers I asked my dentist about it and she explained the level of dental work necessary to repair this. And how by the time he had gone through oral surgery and had an implant - he would have spent five digits AND would be left worse off than before because a dental implant requires further care and treatment throughout life and is simply never as good as the original tooth.

Its easy to say "well yer man is grand" when you are not the one going through month of expensive dental work and the end result still being a lesser situation than the one you were in to start with.

Same goes for orthopediac injuries. I know people who still have problems 10 years after car accidents. Sure, they are going around living a normal life, but they also have injuries that cause problems. Its not always visible to people.

We certainly have plenty of chancers and a pretty serious compo culture at work, but there are genuine cases too.
....... is offline  
(5) thanks from:
Advertisement
29-05-2019, 10:27   #10
Samuel T. Cogley
Registered User
 
Samuel T. Cogley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuringBot47 View Post
The problem may be the lump sum nature of these things.
And an insurance company wanting to know the cost up front to deduct it from their pool of money.

Where it probably needs some form of annual payout, regular review of the injury, assessment of money lost due to job loss/etc.

I certainly wouldn't want a measly €3k for a bad back problem potentially for life, or something that will inherently weaken my back permanently.
Like a crashed car, your spine may never completely be as strong as before the crash, ligaments stretched, muscles damaged etc.

So I'd say it's the big lump sum payout that is the issue here, not the idea of ongoing care for someone who had whiplash (which covers practically all forms of spinal injuries)

The New Zealand model is similar to this so it's not unheard of to have an alternative approach, even in a Common Law country.
Samuel T. Cogley is offline  
Thanks from:
29-05-2019, 10:27   #11
biko
Arbiter
 
biko's Avatar
1 Start by addressing the issue that "it's always someone else's fault" mindset in TDs and other weaklings.

2 If you are awarded money for a rpoblem, the money should go directly to the doctor treating you, and never to you nor your family
There must be no incentive to make up injuries.

3 Anyone with more than one claim in the last 15 years needs to be scrutinised.
biko is offline  
29-05-2019, 10:28   #12
Tilikum17
Registered User
 
Tilikum17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 568
My auld fella was in a small tip with a women (who has sued before). Anyway, she was suing for small tissue damage all over her body. I caught her running in a road race also attending a gym class.

When I sent the details onto his car insurance crowd, they didn’t want to know about it & said they’d be paying out.

Disgraceful.
Tilikum17 is offline  
29-05-2019, 10:29   #13
TuringBot47
Registered User
 
TuringBot47's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 327
Really, the only way to tackle this is that you have to sign a legal declaration that you cannot sue a company/person for any injuries/death/loss of property before going on their property.

God knows how that would work for drunk people in pubs/clubs, because they could claim they didn't know what they were signing.
So you'd end up with "private pubs", where you must become a member beforehand and agree to the terms before entering.
TuringBot47 is offline  
29-05-2019, 10:29   #14
Hector Savage
Registered User
 
Hector Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuringBot47 View Post
Not volumes... a "spine specialist" might've been needed for credibility in court, but a normal physio might be enough to treat them on a longer term basis.
So how much did you get in your claim ?
Hector Savage is offline  
29-05-2019, 10:30   #15
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 719
Firstly you need the will of the elected government of the day to tackle the problem. They don't have that will so i can't see anything changing unfortunately.
InTheShadows is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet