CIE Union Fanatics/Extremists?

end of the road · 29-01-2017 10:36pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well, very slightly skilled. But like tying your shoe laces, everyone can learn to do it with a little practice.
The bottom line is they are grossly overpaid. And probably bitch themselves about the quality of politicians and government when it is the very same politicians that are responsible for overpaying them. No marches to Kildare street by drivers objecting to how they are disgracefully overpaid, and the government should force BE to rectify this horrendous waste when people would happly do their job for two thirds of the amount.

the bottom line is that they aren't over paid. no amount of saying they are will change the facts. people would not be happy to do the job for 2 thirds of the amount, otherwise they would be doing it. the market has said you are wrong.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The cost of living has not gone up since the crash in 08. And it is still stable at zero.

Wages at that time were too high throughout the economy. Hence the crash. Wages in legacy public services were even more out of whack and do not have the same facility to self correct as the private sector.

So BE wages still need to fall, allowances and benefits reduced or be eliminated, overtime become a very rare exceptional event, and productivity increase.

They are just going through the painful wrench from a privileged, protected, and uneconomic abuse of public funds, to one in line with the service provided, and level of work involved. It will be traumatic. But the breaking point has been reached as happened in Aer Lingus and elsewhere. BE must make the leap to the real world.

they have fallen hugely. they aren't going to fall any further otherwise they would be on less then their private counterparts. productivity is all ready very near it's maximum. there is no privileged, protected, and uneconomic abuse of public funds, staff have to get paid for doing their job and the company has to be paid for providing it's services. everything is in line with the service provided and the work involved, as per the market. the only issue is the ftp which the full cost of isn't being paid. be is in the real world.

stimpson · 29-01-2017 11:12pm

magentis wrote: »

lThere are no mercedes coaches or buses in this country with the capacity you are talking about or ever was.I know this for a fact.

Right. If you say so.

darkpagandeath · 29-01-2017 11:26pm

magentis wrote: »

A dozen wheelchairs on one bus?

No such bus exists in this country.

Bs seen plenty of buses supplying services for mental health and disabled on the one bus.

magentis · 30-01-2017 1:44am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Bs seen plenty of buses supplying services for mental health and disabled on the one bus.

Where have you seen a bus with 12 wheelchairs on it at the one time?

Who operates it?

darkpagandeath · 30-01-2017 1:48am

magentis wrote: »

Where have you seen a bus with 12 wheelchairs on it at the one time?

Who operates it?

You can remove the seats in them. Jesus...

magentis · 30-01-2017 1:57am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You can remove the seats in them. Jesus...

So its just a matter of taking the seats out of an ordinary bus and away you go is it?

Where did you see one with 12 wheelchair passengers and 10 seated passengers?

Made up of mental health/disabled passengers is it?
Was it the hse?Was it a private company?Was it the IWA maybe?

Who?

Maybe you saw Jesus on the bus too?

magentis · 30-01-2017 2:03am

There is no bus in this country configured to carry 12 wheelchair passengers and 10 seated passengers.

darkpagandeath · 30-01-2017 2:03am

magentis wrote: »

So its just a matter of taking the seats out of an ordinary bus and away you go is it?

Where did you see one with 12 wheelchair passengers and 10 seated passengers?

Made up of mental health/disabled passengers is it?
Was it the hse?Was it a private company?Was it the IWA maybe?

Who?

Maybe you saw Jesus on the bus too?

They are not ordinary buses they are designed to have seats or no seats depending on the clients. They don't have any marking they are private the ones I have seen. Usually alighting from a ramp on the back. Have no idea why it's so hard to believe a service for example from the HSE dropping Wheelchair users to various places. Generally see a mixture of Mental health wheel chair users regular users. And the likes of people with MS for example.

I am not talking about the 10 sitting and wheelchair.

magentis · 30-01-2017 2:22am

You quoted my post and said it was bs.

I was referring to another users post.

I worked organising transport for the special olympics,and we are currently working on another event that will require vehicles to transport wheelchair users.We have info on what vehicles are in the country and their capacities,private operators,charities and the hse.The most we have is 8,with 6 seated passengers.

darkpagandeath · 30-01-2017 2:24am

magentis wrote: »

You quoted my post and said it was bs.

I was referring to another users post.

I worked organising transport for the special olympics,and we are currently working on another event that will require vehicles to transport wheelchair users.We have info on what vehicles are in the country and their capacities,private operators,charities and the hse.The most we have is 8,with 6 seated passengers.

Apologies did not specifically see the mix. I have seen them outside old folks home and alike too.

The Rape of Lucretia · 31-01-2017 8:40pm

Well aint that just dandy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unite-members-of-bus-ireann-vote-unanimously-to-strike-35412761.html

You try and give people jobs, a good wage, and a sustainable future. And they go on strike. WTF are these Unite guys up to ?

lawred2 · 31-01-2017 10:11pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well aint that just dandy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unite-members-of-bus-ireann-vote-unanimously-to-strike-35412761.html

You try and give people jobs, a good wage, and a sustainable future. And they go on strike. WTF are these Unite guys up to ?

Sell it off.

end of the road · 31-01-2017 10:30pm

a

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well aint that just dandy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unite-members-of-bus-ireann-vote-unanimously-to-strike-35412761.html

You try and give people jobs, a good wage, and a sustainable future. And they go on strike. WTF are these Unite guys up to ?

so be it. i would agree it isn't the right move myself but i trust that the members of that union having all the facts are making the choice they feel is best for them. chances are it will be called off anyway at the last minute, hopefully anyway.

a

lawred2 wrote: »

Sell it off.

for what. to who. it wouldn't make a difference as they're will still be strikes from time to time as in any of the big transport companies world wide.

The Rape of Lucretia · 31-01-2017 10:36pm

end of the road wrote: »

for what. to who. it wouldn't make a difference as they're will still be strikes from time to time as in any of the big transport companies world wide.

Yes, many transport company employees abuse their position and try to extort excessive wages from their customers, but at least if it was sold off, they would be paid a decent wage.

end of the road · 31-01-2017 11:14pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes, many transport company employees abuse their position and try to extort excessive wages from their customers, but at least if it was sold off, they would be paid a decent wage.

they don't abuse their position or extort. selling off be or even the expressway part will do nothing. it will make the numties who still can't grasp that strikes happen in both private and public sector happy until they're is a strike, when they may finally wake up to reality.

Grayson · 31-01-2017 11:44pm

magentis wrote: »

You quoted my post and said it was bs.

I was referring to another users post.

I worked organising transport for the special olympics,and we are currently working on another event that will require vehicles to transport wheelchair users.We have info on what vehicles are in the country and their capacities,private operators,charities and the hse.The most we have is 8,with 6 seated passengers.

I worked with the IWA years ago (It was easily 15 years ago) and they had two coaches back then.

dd972 · 01-02-2017 1:47am

Do they suicide-crash their trains and buses?

darkpagandeath · 01-02-2017 2:05am

end of the road wrote: »

they don't abuse their position or extort. selling off be or even the expressway part will do nothing. it will make the numties who still can't grasp that strikes happen in both private and public sector happy until they're is a strike, when they may finally wake up to reality.

Strike all they want company will go insolvent and bang. Gov cannot bail them out anti competition laws. And some will be regretting being greedy finding themselves on the dole. Simple facts are The government cannot bail them out.

end of the road · 01-02-2017 2:24am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Strike all they want company will go insolvent and bang. Gov cannot bail them out anti competition laws. And some will be regretting being greedy finding themselves on the dole. Simple facts are The government cannot bail them out.

none of that has anything to do with what i said.

darkpagandeath · 01-02-2017 3:21am

end of the road wrote: »

none of that has anything to do with what i said.

Can you tell us how the Unions will get a pay rise that cannot be given ? I would like you to outline how.

end of the road · 01-02-2017 3:33am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Can you tell us how the Unions will get a pay rise that cannot be given ? I would like you to outline how.

they aren't going to get one. nobody ever said they should either.

darkpagandeath · 01-02-2017 3:41am

end of the road wrote: »

they aren't going to get one. nobody ever said they should either.

Right, so there should be lay off and streamlining yes ? Insolvent company that cannot be bailed out.

Or let it fail and start from scratch. Probably less time wasted if they let them go bang. Will kill off the unions. I believe in a fair days work and a fair day pay. This is taking the piss. And when it does go bang I really hope they don't start putting up sob stories.

2 options. Bust or a job.

end of the road · 01-02-2017 2:30pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Right, so there should be lay off and streamlining yes ? Insolvent company that cannot be bailed out.

Or let it fail and start from scratch. Probably less time wasted if they let them go bang. Will kill off the unions. I believe in a fair days work and a fair day pay. This is taking the piss. And when it does go bang I really hope they don't start putting up sob stories.

2 options. Bust or a job.

a laughable bunch of nonsense. they're is no need to lay off anybody. all they need to do is simply cut the loss making expressway routes. they are the huge problem as recognised. letting the company go bang isn't going to get rid of the unions. the unions are going no-where. they're are plenty of options here.

oh by the way, (not that i'm suggesting it should or will happen) the government can actually "bail out" the company. anti-competition laws are often got around by other EU countries when it suits. all they need to do is insure it is indirect and nothing goes directly from government to expressway should they go down the route.

ohnonotgmail · 01-02-2017 2:52pm

end of the road wrote: »

a laughable bunch of nonsense. they're is no need to lay off anybody. all they need to do is simply cut the loss making expressway routes. they are the huge problem as recognised. letting the company go bang isn't going to get rid of the unions. the unions are going no-where. they're are plenty of options here.

oh by the way, (not that i'm suggesting it should or will happen) the government can actually "bail out" the company. anti-competition laws are often got around by other EU countries when it suits. all they need to do is insure it is indirect and nothing goes directly from government to expressway should they go down the route.

If they cut the loss-making routes what happens to the drivers on those routes? will they have a job to do?

darkpagandeath · 01-02-2017 2:56pm

end of the road wrote: »

a laughable bunch of nonsense. they're is no need to lay off anybody. all they need to do is simply cut the loss making expressway routes. they are the huge problem as recognised. letting the company go bang isn't going to get rid of the unions. the unions are going no-where. they're are plenty of options here.

oh by the way, (not that i'm suggesting it should or will happen) the government can actually "bail out" the company. anti-competition laws are often got around by other EU countries when it suits. all they need to do is insure it is indirect and nothing goes directly from government to expressway should they go down the route.

How will anti competition laws be gotten around on an insolvent company ?

end of the road · 01-02-2017 3:25pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If they cut the loss-making routes what happens to the drivers on those routes? will they have a job to do?

i should think so yes. services could be increased on the profitable routes.

Arcade_Tryer · 01-02-2017 3:38pm

No doubt most of the people citing EU competition law in relation to Bus Eireann also support the Government's stance on Apple Tax...

darkpagandeath · 01-02-2017 3:41pm

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

No doubt most of the people citing EU competition law in relation to Bus Eireann also support the Government's stance on Apple Tax...

You get in to trouble for ignoring both. What position has the Gov got on illegal state aid ?

end of the road · 01-02-2017 3:48pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You get in to trouble for ignoring both. What position has the Gov got on illegal state aid ?

you could ask them. i don't know which minister you should write to though but i'm sure you will be able to find that information yourself. as i said all ready, governments can and have got around competition and state aid rules when it suits. and again, that isn't me saying we should do it but that it has happened.

Arcade_Tryer · 01-02-2017 3:56pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You get in to trouble for ignoring both. What position has the Gov got on illegal state aid ?

An apathetic attitude when it concerns Apple.

darkpagandeath · 01-02-2017 3:59pm

end of the road wrote: »

you could ask them. i don't know which minister you should write to though but i'm sure you will be able to find that information yourself. as i said all ready, governments can and have got around competition and state aid rules when it suits. and again, that isn't me saying we should do it but that it has happened.

Really they have.. Odd they are up for it in Apples case.

Brendan Bendar · 03-02-2017 11:00pm

end of the road wrote: »

a laughable bunch of nonsense. they're is no need to lay off anybody. all they need to do is simply cut the loss making expressway routes. they are the huge problem as recognised. letting the company go bang isn't going to get rid of the unions. the unions are going no-where. they're are plenty of options here.

oh by the way, (not that i'm suggesting it should or will happen) the government can actually "bail out" the company. anti-competition laws are often got around by other EU countries when it suits. all they need to do is insure it is indirect and nothing goes directly from government to expressway should they go down the route.

If you do t mind me saying, you are flogging a dead horse.

Bus Eireann expressway is a loss making concern due mainly to a high cost base and outdated work practices.

The u ions thought they could kick the Govt while it was weak.

That's the be all and end all of it.

You cannot justify anything else.

end of the road · 03-02-2017 11:59pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

If you do t mind me saying, you are flogging a dead horse.

Bus Eireann expressway is a loss making concern due mainly to a high cost base and outdated work practices.

The u ions thought they could kick the Govt while it was weak.

That's the be all and end all of it.

You cannot justify anything else.

incorrect. i'm flogging a very much alive horse. there is no evidence of outdated working practices in bus eireann, but claims from gutter rags. the unions didn't think they could kick the government. That's the be all and end all of it. i can and have justified the reality.

Brendan Bendar · 04-02-2017 12:18am

end of the road wrote: »

it's not up to me to come up with a solution, i'm not management of the company.

Let me tell you the solution

Cut overtime

Reduce sick leave

Re work the work practices

Address the terms and conditions.

And the basic pay need not be touched, as management t have said .

It's the 'gravy' of overtime and shift pay which is artificially manouvered is the problem.

Don't expect the taxpayer to bankroll more of the same.

dar100 · 04-02-2017 12:22am

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Can you provide your definition of intelligence, please?

diomed · 04-02-2017 12:31am

suicide_circus wrote: »

I heard some talking head on the radio saying that if everyone on a free travel pass paid €6 per year...PER YEAR, that the hole in bus eireanns finances would be filled. 6 f*cking Euro. 11 Cent per week for unlimited public transport. And yet this idea wont even be given any discussion lest the sacred cows with their endless advocacy groups start screeching about elderly people freeze to death in their homes.

468,000 pensioners (2006 census, 65 year old+) x €6 = €2,808,000
The Bus Eireann deficit is projected at €6,000,000 in 2016.

The only way that "report" makes sense is if the number of pensioners increased from 468,000 to 1,000,000 in ten years.
Pensioners are now 66 year old+ so the starting 468,000 would be smaller (take out those aged 65).

Bar stool economics.

diomed · 04-02-2017 12:35am

Update
Currently there are 540,000 people aged 65+ in Ireland, and obviously less aged 66+ (free travel).
540,000 x €6 = €3,240,000, still a long way short of the €6,000,000 deficit.

Wheety · 04-02-2017 12:50am

Anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people below pension age also have free travel for whatever disability they may have. Still wouldn't make up the gap mind you.

ben.schlomo · 04-02-2017 1:49am

Wheety wrote: »

Anecdotally, it seems like a lot of people below pension age also have free travel for whatever disability they may have. Still wouldn't make up the gap mind you.

Of the ones i see on a daily basis the biggest affliction is not being able to get off their arse and get a job or earn an honest living, you know, like the rest of us who pay to subsidise their free travel.

No sympathy from me for the majority of bus drivers, waiting on Tuesday morning this week, bus due at 925, arrives at 936, a 750 metre journey for the driver, im at the second stop on the route, it takes 2 mins to usually make that journey, i hop on and there he is having a coffee and sandwich, i said 'youre on a go slow today is it', his reply 'ah yeah'. Sums up their customer service and general attitude.

eeguy · 04-02-2017 1:57am

end of the road wrote: »

i should think so yes. services could be increased on the profitable routes.

Do BE have enough profitable routes?
Wouldn't increasing the service just to keep lads in jobs make them less profitable?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 04-02-2017 3:58am

Where's Maggie or Ronnie when you need them.

Smash the Unions. Stand up to these bully boys. You're the State, you have the power to do so. We the working people will support you.

end of the road · 04-02-2017 4:06am

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Of the ones i see on a daily basis the biggest affliction is not being able to get off their arse and get a job or earn an honest living, you know, like the rest of us who pay to subsidise their free travel.

based on what. assuming you are correct, employers aren't going to employ such people even if the employers were desperate for staff. reality doesn't matter to the soundbite/garra job rabel rabel brigade though

ben.schlomo wrote: »

No sympathy from me for the majority of bus drivers, waiting on Tuesday morning this week, bus due at 925, arrives at 936, a 750 metre journey for the driver, im at the second stop on the route, it takes 2 mins to usually make that journey, i hop on and there he is having a coffee and sandwich, i said 'youre on a go slow today is it', his reply 'ah yeah'. Sums up their customer service and general attitude.

yes sympathy for them from you as chances are he was being smart. after all, he has heard the same nonsense time and time again from someone trying to be funny and failing badly.

eeguy wrote: »

Do BE have enough profitable routes?
Wouldn't increasing the service just to keep lads in jobs make them less profitable?

they wouldn't be increasing them to keep people in jobs, they would be doing it because it needs to be done.

end of the road · 04-02-2017 4:12am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Where's Maggie or Ronnie when you need them.

dead. and they could only pick on the weak in society, being the pathetic wasters they were.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Smash the Unions.

can't be done. the workers will do what is necessary to stop any attempt to try and it will be for the good of us all.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Stand up to these bully boys. You're the State, you have the power to do so.

no bully boys to be stood up to. the state does not have the power to do anything to the strong.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We the working people will support you.

not this worker. i value my worker rights.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 04-02-2017 5:11am

end of the road wrote: »

dead. and they could only pick on the weak in society, being the pathetic wasters they were.

can't be done. the workers will do what is necessary to stop any attempt to try and it will be for the good of us all.

no bully boys to be stood up to. the state does not have the power to do anything to the strong.

not this worker. i value my worker rights.

Pathetic wasters!! Get outta of here my friend, they were leaders of the free word. They achieved greatness in their liftetimes. Immortality.

I believe in meritocracy. I want each child to start off on a fair playing field. I then want them to be rewarded for hard work, you work for what you have. In a system like this the cream will rise to the top. Look at how many disadvantaged individuals have risen here in Ireland with the aid of college grants. We created a level playing field for them.

What I don't want is bully boys forming Unions and holding the State to ransom. I want our State to smash them.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 04-02-2017 5:22am

To further this EOTR, if you're not happy with your wage you should keep upskilling to improve your conditions. That may mean leaving a profession such as a bus driver.

You might even think about striking out on your own, and becoming self employed. The ability to make big should be in the private sector and not the Public sector.

There is a no glass ceiling in private enterprise, the sky is the limit.

You have to take risks though, the safety net of state employment is not there.

suicide_circus · 04-02-2017 5:23am

diomed wrote: »

Update
Currently there are 540,000 people aged 65+ in Ireland, and obviously less aged 66+ (free travel).
540,000 x €6 = €3,240,000, still a long way short of the €6,000,000 deficit.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-qualifying-for-free-travel-rising-every-year-1.2939398

Including carers/companions the number of people with FTP was around 1.2m in 2014

ben.schlomo · 04-02-2017 3:01pm

end of the road wrote: »

based on what. assuming you are correct, employers aren't going to employ such people even if the employers were desperate for staff. reality doesn't matter to the soundbite/garra job rabel rabel brigade though

yes sympathy for them from you as chances are he was being smart. after all, he has heard the same nonsense time and time again from someone trying to be funny and failing badly.

they wouldn't be increasing them to keep people in jobs, they would be doing it because it needs to be done.

Trust me I wasn't trying to be funny, should I have asked why he was late,why was he having a break while driving the bus? Or should I be a good quiet passenger and stand in the cold until a bus randomly turns up? Your defense of this shambles of a company is superb by the way, it makes great reading.

end of the road · 04-02-2017 3:45pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Pathetic wasters!! Get outta of here my friend, they were leaders of the free word. They achieved greatness in their liftetimes. Immortality.

I believe in meritocracy. I want each child to start off on a fair playing field. I then want them to be rewarded for hard work, you work for what you have. In a system like this the cream will rise to the top. Look at how many disadvantaged individuals have risen here in Ireland with the aid of college grants. We created a level playing field for them.

What I don't want is bully boys forming Unions and holding the State to ransom. I want our State to smash them.

they're are no bully boys holding the state to ransom. the unions have all ready been formed and are going nowhere until the members decide otherwise.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

To further this EOTR, if you're not happy with your wage you should keep upskilling to improve your conditions. That may mean leaving a profession such as a bus driver.

You might even think about striking out on your own, and becoming self employed. The ability to make big should be in the private sector and not the Public sector.

There is a no glass ceiling in private enterprise, the sky is the limit.

You have to take risks though, the safety net of state employment is not there.

or, you can negotiate with your employer to up the wage to the market rate, which is what the transport unions do. the ability to make big should be in all sectors, the public sector isn't a charity.

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Trust me I wasn't trying to be funny, should I have asked why he was late,why was he having a break while driving the bus? Or should I be a good quiet passenger and stand in the cold until a bus randomly turns up? Your defense of this shambles of a company is superb by the way, it makes great reading.

it's called giving people the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty of something. i believe in innocent until proven guilty across the board, not just in terms of the justice system

ben.schlomo · 04-02-2017 5:30pm

end of the road wrote: »

they're are no bully boys holding the state to ransom. the unions have all ready been formed and are going nowhere until the members decide otherwise.

or, you can negotiate with your employer to up the wage to the market rate, which is what the transport unions do. the ability to make big should be in all sectors, the public sector isn't a charity.

it's called giving people the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty of something. i believe in innocent until proven guilty across the board, not just in terms of the justice system

It's a regular thing amongst drivers, numerous different ones have arrived with ISS catering services coffee cups, which they get in the canteen of a factory beside the starting point. They then delay their departure as a result of their caffeine craving, leaving commuters bereft of a punctual service. Guilty in anyone's language. No point telling you this though as you'll just say they are entitled to do it and so what and everyone does things like that etc etc.

Red Kev · 04-02-2017 5:49pm

diomed wrote: »

468,000 pensioners (2006 census, 65 year old+) x €6 = €2,808,000
The Bus Eireann deficit is projected at €6,000,000 in 2016.

The only way that "report" makes sense is if the number of pensioners increased from 468,000 to 1,000,000 in ten years.
Pensioners are now 66 year old+ so the starting 468,000 would be smaller (take out those aged 65).

Bar stool economics.

suicide_circus wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-qualifying-for-free-travel-rising-every-year-1.2939398

Including carers/companions the number of people with FTP was around 1.2m in 2014

The number of free travel passes is around 800,000. Some of these passes allow you to take a companion and if you add this to the total you get 1.2m or thereabouts. It was in the Irish Times a couple of weks ago and there were similar figures about 3 years ago.

You need to have an "opt-in/opt-out" for the FTP's. If you want it on your card, then you should pay €1 per week nominal fee, this should be deducted at source, i.e. before it's paid out as a welfare payment.

You want a FTP, then pay €1 per week, you don't want it, then continue to collect.

The problem is that whatever political party attempts to instigate this, it will be faux opposed by those in opposition who will promise to reinstate it the next time they get elected in. And the merry go round will continue. So no party will dare touch it at the end of the day.

CIE Union Fanatics/Extremists?

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