N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

marno21 · 13-08-2020 4:39pm

cillo2000 wrote: »

That's some sight, thanks Marno. How much time do people estimate it will save at off-peak times? 10-15 Minutes?

About that yes. The consistency of journey times it’ll deliver is fantastic too. Guaranteed 15 mins between Ballyvourney West to Coolcower. Such an easier drive too.

The scale of the scheme I feel will be underestimated until it opens and people get to feel the difference. This isn’t a usual Irish on the cheap. It’s high spec high benefit infrastructure that will absolutely transform the region. Going from a 7km rollercoaster that truck can’t take at 50km/h and a lengthy town whose streets aren’t wide enough for white lines to a grade separated dual carriageway

It won’t be long before people are clamouring for further upgrades on the N22. After the Farranfore-Killarney scheme is done, the pressure will be on to sort Ovens-Macroom.

hans aus dtschl · 13-08-2020 4:45pm

marno21 wrote: »

As someone in the same boat, would highly recommend taking the Mill Road around Macroom if you don’t already. Some serious amount of work going on down there.

Absolutely transformative scheme for the Cork-Killarney journey.

Yep been watching from that perspective, very dramatic. Progress is very visible on lots of stretches around the main Ballyvourney route too.

I think the saving will be more than 10-15mins.
It'll save me 10-15mins on a normal day. Peak time (bad days) it could save me 20-25mins. Pretty significant.

marno21 · 13-08-2020 4:49pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yep been watching from that perspective, very dramatic. Progress is very visible on lots of stretches around the main Ballyvourney route too.

I think the saving will be more than 10-15mins.
It'll save me 10-15mins on a normal day. Peak time (bad days) it could save me 20-25mins. Pretty significant.

It seems at the minute as if they are prioritising the two bypasses of the towns and leaving the inter-town stretch til after. The Macroom part is the biggest priority and there is some challenging sections on the Ballyvourney/Ballymakeery section.

I agree, 10-15 mins at the absolute least. On very busy days it'll be much more. The journey will be a lot more relaxed also.

Of course, the additional safety benefits both for N22 users and locals are absolutely massive also.

steeler j · 13-08-2020 4:54pm

The phots give a great view of the terrain there dealing with

KOR101 · 13-08-2020 5:45pm

marno21 wrote: »

The Macroom part is the biggest priority.....

Any guess about when that might open?

marno21 · 14-08-2020 1:11am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPBe5mLxZOM

Some even more up to date drone footage

Salvadoor · 14-08-2020 9:10am

marno21 wrote: »

Some even more up to date drone footage

MOD: Thanks - original post fixed

Cork Trucker · 14-08-2020 10:17am

Great video, I note houses in the immediate vicinity along the route, no objectors? Excellent, it’s a road they know is badly needed.

Water John · 14-08-2020 3:27pm

TMK only objections were some oddballs on about proximity to Carrigaphooka Castle.

Cork Trucker · 14-08-2020 3:59pm

It didn’t end up as a judicial review though

marno21 · 14-08-2020 4:39pm

There are no road schemes proposed or built which are completely removed from housing. There were a few houses demolished to make way for this N22 scheme, one in particular at the R582/Millstreet Road interchange.

Most road schemes either have minimal objection or else get approved anyway as a few homeowners not happy about a scheme is not sufficient grounds to deny it planning.

The only schemes of note recently that had significant residential objections are the M28 and the Galway Ring Road (50+ houses to be demolished iirc). These schemes are also noteworthy as they run through urban areas (all of the M28 north of Shannonpark is in the Cork City Council area). Rural dual carriageways tend not to attract such levels of objection as its a minority of dwellings that are dispersed rather than housing clusters which are affected.

For most people in the area of Macroom and Baile Bhuirne, they can see the benefits of this scheme both from an individual and community perspective and approach the scheme accordingly. This is true in most road schemes as we can observe.

Apogee · 14-08-2020 7:40pm

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPBe5mLxZOM

Some even more up to date drone footage

I think that footage shows the new road intersecting with the N22 at 6m25s. Which corresponds to this location:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sleveen+East,+Macroom,+Co.+Cork/@51.9117982,-9.0244467,264m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4844e44c4c6d2a55:0xa00c7a997319de0!8m2!3d51.9048039!4d-8.9588478

How likely is it that we might see an early opening of the Macroom by-pass reconnecting with the N22 here?

Quackster · 14-08-2020 7:58pm

Apogee wrote: »

I think that footage shows the new road intersecting with the N22 at 6m25s. Which corresponds to this location:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sleveen+East,+Macroom,+Co.+Cork/@51.9117982,-9.0244467,264m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4844e44c4c6d2a55:0xa00c7a997319de0!8m2!3d51.9048039!4d-8.9588478

How likely is it that we might see an early opening of the Macroom by-pass reconnecting with the N22 here?

Extremely likely.

marno21 · 15-08-2020 2:52pm

Quackster wrote: »

Extremely likely.

Indeed. There has been little to no work west of this point for several miles, the next work is the heavy work around Ballyvourney. All the work to date seems focused on the two town bypasses, with even more focus on the Macroom section.

Opening the section from Coolcower to Carrigaphooca is very feasible and would do wonders for traffic in the area.

Cork Trucker · 15-08-2020 3:03pm

I was in Ballyvourney earlier on, plenty of work going on up on the hill behind the school

cantalach · 15-08-2020 5:48pm

marno21 wrote: »

Opening the section from Coolcower to Carrigaphooca is very feasible and would do wonders for traffic in the area.

I would love that to happen but, as I said when this came up before on this thread, that might not be legal from a planning perspective. I know that sections of new road elsewhere in the country have opened early before. But the difference in this case is that the fully completed new road will not have any junction with the old N22 at that point. So they would essentially be creating a new junction without any planning permission. Perhaps its temporary nature would make a difference. Who knows.

Another issue is that if the contract doesn’t place any requirement on the contractor to do this temporary tie-in, and if it doesn’t offer any kind of bonus incentive to do it, why would the contractor bother doing it? It’s a business in the end of the day and few businesses spend money just to be nice.

Pete_Cavan · 17-08-2020 6:23am

cantalach wrote: »

I would love that to happen but, as I said when this came up before on this thread, that might not be legal from a planning perspective. I know that sections of new road elsewhere in the country have opened early before. But the difference in this case is that the fully completed new road will not have any junction with the old N22 at that point. So they would essentially be creating a new junction without any planning permission. Perhaps its temporary nature would make a difference. Who knows.

Another issue is that if the contract doesn’t place any requirement on the contractor to do this temporary tie-in, and if it doesn’t offer any kind of bonus incentive to do it, why would the contractor bother doing it? It’s a business in the end of the day and few businesses spend money just to be nice.

Can't comment on the planning issues you raised but there certainly is an incentive for the contractor to hand over some of the scheme early if they can. By handing over some of it, it is no longer their responsibility to protect and insure those works. They would have to repair any damage which might occur and any insurance claims would be against them. Any part handed over is a little less hassle for the contractor. It is also standard that retention monies held reduces on hand over so it would likely be worth a few quid to the contractor.

marno21 · 19-08-2020 10:24pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbtyl6zmrng

Fantastic video from the contractors showing how the proposed Bohill bridge near Ballyvourney will be constructed. Timeline and full construction sequence shown.

It highlights yet again how high the specification of this scheme is. If this was built 20 years ago it'd be an at grade single carriageway. Compare that with this.

rounders · 19-08-2020 11:01pm

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbtyl6zmrng

Fantastic video from the contractors showing how the proposed Bohill bridge near Ballyvourney will be constructed. Timeline and full construction sequence shown.

It highlights yet again how high the specification of this scheme is. If this was built 20 years ago it'd be an at grade single carriageway. Compare that with this.

Very impressive! Thanks for sharing!

EDIT: Also impressive to see they made a Irish language version too!

cantalach · 19-08-2020 11:16pm

rounders wrote: »

Very impressive! Thanks for sharing!

EDIT: Also impressive to see they made a Irish language version too!

Legal requirement for any publicly-funded projects in a Gaeltacht.

damian01211 · 23-08-2020 1:57pm

Hello everybody ^_^
I've managed to get my little toy up in the air recently and decided to record the works on the bypass by millstreet road.
I can't fly far away so it's a short movie

cork_south · 24-08-2020 9:51am

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbtyl6zmrng

Fantastic video from the contractors showing how the proposed Bohill bridge near Ballyvourney will be constructed. Timeline and full construction sequence shown.

It highlights yet again how high the specification of this scheme is. If this was built 20 years ago it'd be an at grade single carriageway. Compare that with this.

Seems that video is private now

Cork Trucker · 24-08-2020 10:01am

cork_south wrote: »

Seems that video is private now

I just watched it without issue

Prowetod · 24-08-2020 9:41pm

cork_south wrote: »

Seems that video is private now

Same for me now. I had watched it the other day without issue. Can't find the project's YouTube channel either.

There was an update posted on the project website today:

Update on the Coolyhane Underbridge

As anyone living in the Ummera, Coolyhane or Masseytown knows, there has been significant progress with the construction of the Coolyhane Underbridge over recent months. This structure is the most advanced of the 130 structures included in the overall contract and is progressing well at this point. The recent closure of the Coolyhane Road (Mill Road) was necessary to facilitate the construction of this bridge and it is gratifying to see it taking shape. The new N22 road will pass over this bridge and the Coolyhane Road (Mill Road) itself will be realigned to pass underneath.

These photos show recent construction works on the bridge.

The first precast concrete beams for the job were dropped into position on Thursday 6th August. These beams are MY type units, supplied by Banagher Precast in Co Offaly. The beams themselves are approx. 9m long and weighing 4 Tons per unit.

These beams were placed onto the concrete walls recently constructed by the contractor’s site team. The concrete deck for the new carriageway will be cast over these units in the coming weeks.

The contractor has applied for another Temporary Road Closure of the Coolyhane Road (Mill Road) for a 5 week period commencing on Mon 7th September. If approved, this road closure will permit the contractor to construct the realignment of the Coolyhane Road (Mill Road) so that it will run under the new bridge and that will bring this element of the project to a conclusion.

Finally, the contractor would like to thank the residents of Masseytown, Coolyhane, Firville and Ummera for their co-operation with the original road closure and hopefully the work can be finished on schedule so as to keep the local impact to a minimum.

There's 3 pictures included with the update on the website.

Water John · 07-09-2020 10:52pm

Yeah the Mill Rd closed today. Vehicle breakdown on Castle St around pm. Queue to 2 mile bridge, incl 4 Christy Lucey trucks with wide loads, absolute nightmare.

aisling86 · 08-09-2020 9:50am

Water John wrote: »

Yeah the Mill Rd closed today. Vehicle breakdown on Castle St around pm. Queue to 2 mile bridge, incl 4 Christy Lucey trucks with wide loads, absolute nightmare.

Absolute mayhem again this morning. Traffic all the way back up masseytown. I think some are still trying to go down mill rd & ignoring the signs because they reappear few min later. Just shows the level of traffic that did use the mill rd!

serfboard · 08-09-2020 1:10pm

Water John wrote: »

Yeah the Mill Rd closed today. Vehicle breakdown on Castle St around pm. Queue to 2 mile bridge, incl 4 Christy Lucey trucks with wide loads, absolute nightmare.

aisling86 wrote: »

Absolute mayhem again this morning. Traffic all the way back up masseytown.

Well, better get used to it because ...

N22BBM wrote:

The contractor has applied for another Temporary Road Closure of the Coolyhane Road (Mill Road) for a 5 week period commencing on Mon 7th September. If approved, this road closure will permit the contractor to construct the realignment of the Coolyhane Road (Mill Road) so that it will run under the new bridge and that will bring this element of the project to a conclusion.

aisling86 · 08-09-2020 1:17pm

serfboard wrote: »

Well, better get used to it because ...

Yup fully aware. With 130 structures going in, it will be a long few years but it will be fabulous when it's done. There is talk locally that that macroom section could open by next summer.

marno21 · 08-09-2020 7:06pm

Going to be a long few weeks while the Mill Road remains closed

In better news, here’s some pics from Twitter. First one is looking west from near Bealick Mill along the Mill Road. The rest are of the bridge which will carry the N22 over the R618.

Chris_5339762 · 08-09-2020 8:23pm

aisling86 wrote: »

Yup fully aware. With 130 structures going in, it will be a long few years but it will be fabulous when it's done. There is talk locally that that macroom section could open by next summer.

Not a hope of that I dont think. 9 months time, I really doubt it.

IIRC the fastest of all of them was the Mitchelstown bypass, which was extremely simple in engineering terms and took 14 months overall. Even the Macroom bypass part of this is far more complex.

SaltyJohn · 08-09-2020 8:27pm

marno21 wrote: »

Going to be a long few weeks while the Mill Road remains closed

In better news, here’s some pics from Twitter. First one is looking west from near Bealick Mill along the Mill Road. The rest are of the bridge which will carry the N22 over the R618.

Pictures not linked/attached

aisling86 · 08-09-2020 10:00pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Not a hope of that I dont think. 9 months time, I really doubt it.

IIRC the fastest of all of them was the Mitchelstown bypass, which was extremely simple in engineering terms and took 14 months overall. Even the Macroom bypass part of this is far more complex.

I agree having walked it a few times its going to take alot longer. They are still blasting behind our house also & will be for another few weeks I think.

marno21 · 08-09-2020 10:03pm

SaltyJohn wrote: »

Pictures not linked/attached

Whoops.

https://twitter.com/alizarn/status/1301966076297740291

marno21 · 08-09-2020 10:06pm

aisling86 wrote: »

I agree having walked it a few times its going to take alot longer. They are still blasting behind our house also & will be for another few weeks I think.

Next summer looks extremely ambitious.

However at this stage, for those of us watching this project in slow motion on a daily basis, it is increasingly evident that Coolcower-Carrigaphoona (the Macroom section) will be open before the rest. There is very little done on the interurban section between Toonlane and Carrigaphooca (the Macroom-Ballymakeera section) and the Ballyvourney section has work underway but it's the most complex of the whole lot and will take time.

The advanced nature of the works in particular around Carrigaphooca, the Mill Road and the Millstreet Road are evident when compared to other sections of the route.

There was a lot of work done over a week period in early June around the link road from the existing N22 to the Ballyvourney East interchange. Was this a borrow pit?

steeler j · 08-09-2020 10:10pm

aisling86 wrote: »

I agree having walked it a few times its going to take alot longer. They are still blasting behind our house also & will be for another few weeks I think.

Are they blasting the rock and using it on the road

alaimacerc · 08-09-2020 10:47pm

marno21 wrote: »

However at this stage, for those of us watching this project in slow motion on a daily basis, it is increasingly evident that Coolcower-Carrigaphoona (the Macroom section) will be open before the rest.

What sort of junction is planned at Carraig an Phúca? The route map makes it look like it's either a bridge, or an at-grade merge, but I'd not want to assume which -- if either -- from a map that might just be indicative. Is this going to work with partial opening as-is, or would temporary works be needed?

There is very little done on the interurban section between Toonlane and Carrigaphooca (the Macroom-Ballymakeera section) and the Ballyvourney section has work underway but it's the most complex of the whole lot and will take time.

Complexity due to... number of bridges required?

There was a lot of work done over a week period in early June around the link road from the existing N22 to the Ballyvourney East interchange.

Is this to be a half-cloverlead between Baile Mhic Íre and Tonn Láin?

aisling86 · 09-09-2020 10:09am

steeler j wrote: »

Are they blasting the rock and using it on the road

No they are blasting through all the rock to build the road.

Water John · 09-09-2020 10:16am

I would presume they would crush it and use it on site. Any alt would make no sense.

Quackster · 09-09-2020 2:15pm

Water John wrote: »

I would presume they would crush it and use it on site. Any alt would make no sense.

Yeah, any blasted rock is likely to be stockpiled and used for making blacktop if it's suitable. Otherwise, it'll be used for capping. It's not going to go to waste!

Pete_Cavan · 09-09-2020 8:36pm

Quackster wrote: »

Yeah, any blasted rock is likely to be stockpiled and used for making blacktop if it's suitable. Otherwise, it'll be used for capping. It's not going to go to waste!

Blasted rock wouldn't go into surfacing, there are specific requirements for such material and it needs lots of testing so is produced under a quality controlled regime at a plant. It could potentially be used in capping layers or for general fill to make up levels outside of the road itself.

Quackster · 09-09-2020 9:23pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Blasted rock wouldn't go into surfacing, there are specific requirements for such material and it needs lots of testing so is produced under a quality controlled regime at a plant. It could potentially be used in capping layers or for general fill to make up levels outside of the road itself.

If there are sufficient quantities of suitable material, they can set up a mobile plant on site to produce blacktop with it. This is a not an unusual occurrence.

Pete_Cavan · 10-09-2020 12:29pm

Quackster wrote: »

If there are sufficient quantities of suitable material, they can set up a mobile plant on site to produce blacktop with it. This is a not an unusual occurrence.

The excavated material would need to be tested to see if it has a high enough Polished Stone Value as well as other properties, its not impossible that it would but not very likely. Also, the quality control measures for batching on site would be expensive and a lot of hassle, the spec would likely call for NSAI certification or similar. Surfacing is one of the last tasks to be done so using excavated material would require stockpiling and doublehandling late in the project as the amount of plant on site is reducing, easier to deal with it at the time and use it for fill with less onerous requirements.

Quackster · 10-09-2020 12:47pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The excavated material would need to be tested to see if it has a high enough Polished Stone Value as well as other properties, its not impossible that it would but not very likely. Also, the quality control measures for batching on site would be expensive and a lot of hassle, the spec would likely call for NSAI certification or similar. Surfacing is one of the last tasks to be done so using excavated material would require stockpiling and doublehandling late in the project as the amount of plant on site is reducing, easier to deal with it at the time and use it for fill with less onerous requirements.

And again, I beg to differ. I've seen it done on projects in this country where the quantities of suitable material available make economic sense for the contractor. And just to be clear, I'm not talking about asphalt wearing course, but rather roadbase and base course macadams.

Pete_Cavan · 10-09-2020 1:35pm

Quackster wrote: »

And again, I beg to differ. I've seen it done on projects in this country where the quantities of suitable material available make economic sense for the contractor. And just to be clear, I'm not talking about asphalt wearing course, but rather roadbase and base course macadams.

Do you have an example of a project where they batched macadam using stone on site? The quantity of aggregate needed for less than 100mm of base course is small in the scheme of things, it wouldn't take a lot of rock to produce enough for it. Far more stone is needed in the thicker base and sub-base layers, which also have less technical requirements and testing, so it generally makes sense to use any stone on site there.

Salvadoor · 10-09-2020 5:00pm

Less rock talk, more N22 progress talk

Mod: Leave the modding to the mods please.

Report posts instead.

marno21 · 10-09-2020 5:26pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

What sort of junction is planned at Carraig an Phúca? The route map makes it look like it's either a bridge, or an at-grade merge, but I'd not want to assume which -- if either -- from a map that might just be indicative. Is this going to work with partial opening as-is, or would temporary works be needed?

There's no junction planned in the final scheme at Carrigaphooca. The existing N22 will be realigned and there will be a roundabout with the local road there, where they will go under the existing N22 together.

I have no idea how they'd go about a partial opening there with a temporary junction with the existing N22.

There is heavy amounts of work ongoing in this area at the minute. Quite a lot of rock needs shifting to fit all this in.

alaimacerc wrote: »

Complexity due to... number of bridges required?

There's a lengthy bridge over the River Bohill, some fairly deep cuts along there plus tricky land conditions

alaimacerc wrote: »

Is this to be a half-cloverlead between Baile Mhic Íre and Tonn Láin?

There's a full (4 movement) compact grade seperated junction onto the new link road between the existing N22 (to be R608) and the L3409 to Clondrohid. The old L3409 will not be bridging the N22 and all movements will be routed onto this new road which will have a roundabout at its intersection with the existing N22. There's visible works where this roundabout will be on the existing N22 atm.

alaimacerc · 10-09-2020 5:53pm

marno21 wrote: »

There's no junction planned in the final scheme at Carrigaphooca. The existing N22 will be realigned and there will be a roundabout with the local road there, where they will go under the existing N22 together.

I have no idea how they'd go about a partial opening there with a temporary junction with the existing N22.

Interesting dilemma. Sounds like there's the potential for the 8km actual Macroom bypass to be finished long before the 14km Baile Bhuirne bypass... and no way to make use of it.

marno21 · 10-09-2020 9:14pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

Interesting dilemma. Sounds like there's the potential for the 8km actual Macroom bypass to be finished long before the 14km Baile Bhuirne bypass... and no way to make use of it.

I would imagine though that they’ll find a way to do so .. a temporary and low speed access route should be doable

The way they are doing things at the minute would suggest as such. Apart from some heavy work near the River Bohill and rock removal at the Ballyvourney East interchange, almost all work is ongoing on the 8km Macroom section. Big work sites visible from the existing route at Carrigaphooca, Millstreet Road, Masseytown and by Bealick Mill. West of Carrigaphooca, most of the route is untouched which is easy to monitor from the existing N22 as they run alongside each other for a large swathe.

yerwanthere123 · 10-09-2020 11:04pm

Salvadoor wrote: »

Less rock talk, more N22 progress talk

Mod: Leave the modding to the mods please.

Report posts instead.

I actually like the rock talk tbh, find it interesting learning new things. So there

alaimacerc · 11-09-2020 12:26am

marno21 wrote: »

I would imagine though that they’ll find a way to do so .. a temporary and low speed access route should be doable

The way they are doing things at the minute would suggest as such. Apart from some heavy work near the River Bohill and rock removal at the Ballyvourney East interchange, almost all work is ongoing on the 8km Macroom section. Big work sites visible from the existing route at Carrigaphooca, Millstreet Road, Masseytown and by Bealick Mill. West of Carrigaphooca, most of the route is untouched which is easy to monitor from the existing N22 as they run alongside each other for a large swathe.

Hence my original question. I shouldn't have said 'no way' of course, but it sounds like a bit of a thorny trilemma. Leave it unused, vs spend significant extra money putting in an up-to-spec junction that'll get bulldozed in due course, vs put in a 'works junction' that might be worse than the problem you're trying to solve. (Well, Macroom is pretty bad, so maybe 'worse' is slightly over-claiming...)

N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

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