Champions Cup 2019/20

Former Former · 16-07-2020 6:57pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Are Connacht even involved in the Champions Cup?

Yes. Once it was realised that a 20-team tournament would exclude Connacht, the decision was made to up it to 24. The whole thing reeks of favouritism but sure we're used to the big teams getting all the decisions.

connachta · 16-07-2020 7:11pm

Former Former wrote: »

Yes. Once it was realised that a 20-team tournament would exclude Connacht, the decision was made to up it to 24. The whole thing reeks of favouritism but sure we're used to the big teams getting all the decisions.

Great post!:D:p:p
Ironically only error is Connacht would have been in a 20-club competition (home play-off vs Dragons).
It's big French clubs who were out, and fought vs big Mathusian English who wanted to reduce to 18

Former Former · 31-07-2020 8:03am

According to Gerry Thornley, this season's European Cup will have eight pools of three teams, each team will play two home and two away games, but NOT against the teams in their own pool. The eight pool winners will then go into two - legged quarter finals.

Yeeesh.

sydthebeat · 31-07-2020 9:00am

Former Former wrote: »

According to Gerry Thornley, this season's European Cup will have eight pools of three teams, each team will play two home and two away games, but NOT against the teams in their own pool. The eight pool winners will then go into two - legged quarter finals.

Yeeesh.

Say wha???

So who do you play the home and away games against.... And does everyone in the same pool play against the same teams?

thomond2006 · 31-07-2020 9:02am

Former Former wrote: »

According to Gerry Thornley, this season's European Cup will have eight pools of three teams, each team will play two home and two away games, but NOT against the teams in their own pool. The eight pool winners will then go into two - legged quarter finals.

Yeeesh.

That's a carryover from the old Anglo-Welsh cup format that was in place for a few years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_LV_Cup. However the clubs would play the same opponents which keep it fairly equitable. In this format how can teams play the same opponents with four games to be played and three teams in a pool?

Former Former · 31-07-2020 9:24am

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's a carryover from the old Anglo-Welsh cup format that was in place for a few years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_LV_Cup. However the clubs would play the same opponents which keep it fairly equitable. In this format how can teams play the same opponents with four games to be played and three teams in a pool?

Ah yeah I get that, you can't have teams idle in every second round, I would have just gone with the 6 pools of 4 teams model and drop the two-leg QF. It's not like a home QF is going to be a big money-spinner anyway, I can't see us having full houses by March next year.

sydthebeat · 31-07-2020 10:08am

just thinking out loud here, and i havent seen GTs article so i dont knwo what way its suggested it works...

but are they looking at 8 groups of 3, one from pro 14, premiership and top 14 in ever group...

and they one group plays another group ie 1 v 8, 2 v 7 etc .. on a home and away basis.....but you dont play the team from your own league??

if so how can the group results be meritocratic ??

awec · 31-07-2020 10:26am

What a daft format.

connachta · 31-07-2020 12:00pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/top-14-begin-legal-proceedings-against-world-rugby-as-autumn-row-intensifies-v2qgt92w9

Nothing is sure yet, troubles on here...

bilston · 31-07-2020 12:15pm

To be honest I find it hard to look past the four Inter Pros at the end of August. Anything beyond that is not guaranteed IMO because then you introduce overseas travel. Even travelling to Scotland and Wales and vice versa could yet prove troublesome.

Burkie1203 · 31-07-2020 4:31pm

bilston wrote: »

To be honest I find it hard to look past the four Inter Pros at the end of August. Anything beyond that is not guaranteed IMO because then you introduce overseas travel. Even travelling to Scotland and Wales and vice versa could yet prove troublesome.

Agree

But 8 pools of 3 but you play teams not in Your own pool is plain dumb. It's even worse then any conference style league

Eod100 · 02-09-2020 10:06am

Next season's Champions Cup format confirmed: https://www.the42.ie/champions-cup-format-202021-5193118-Sep2020/?utm_source=shortlink

Former Former · 02-09-2020 10:11am

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/09/02/new-epcr-tournament-formats-agreed-for-2020-21-season/

The little video helps, but... fncking hell

connachta · 02-09-2020 10:14am

Yeah it's done 24 clubs and a chance for Connacht to play Challenge Cup round of 16 after Champions Cup Pools.
Great!

Podge_irl · 02-09-2020 10:17am

So basically its a competition to see how much the Tier 1 teams can hump the Tier 4 teams by to see who tops the pools?

Podge_irl · 02-09-2020 10:18am

Needless to say, it makes the Pro14 semi finals much more important.

yerrahbah · 02-09-2020 10:21am

Huge reward for being a tier 1 team next season.
Guaranteed an easy group

errlloyd · 02-09-2020 10:22am

Podge_irl wrote: »

So basically its a competition to see how much the Tier 1 teams can hump the Tier 4 teams by to see who tops the pools?

Potentially Leinster and Lyon could both be Tier 1 teams in the same pool. With Dragons, Toulouse and Quins as their Tier 4 teams.

In that case Leinster would play Toulouse and Quins
Lyon would play Dragons and Quins.

****.

sydthebeat · 02-09-2020 10:24am

connachta wrote: »

Yeah it's done 24 clubs and a chance for Connacht to play Challenge Cup round of 16 after Champions Cup Pools.
Great!

yeah good luck to connacht playing (probably) exeter + bordeaux, lyon + bristol... or some version there of

yerrahbah · 02-09-2020 10:26am

https://twitter.com/willgkelleher/status/1301087664171515904

If we take the above to be true.

Leinster vs Quins or Gloucester, and Toulouse or Montpellier/Castres

Munster and Ulster vs Bath or N Saints and Clermont or La Rochelle

Connacht vs Exeter or Sale and Bordeaux or Lyon

Podge_irl · 02-09-2020 10:33am

Toulouse throw the Tier 4s for a loop a bit alright.

errlloyd · 02-09-2020 10:35am

sydthebeat wrote: »

yeah good luck to connacht playing (probably) exeter + bordeaux, lyon + bristol... or some version there of

Sale are currently in second.

Realistic pools as things stand. Pro14 and GP relevant games still to play.

awec · 02-09-2020 10:38am

This is garbage.

awec · 02-09-2020 10:50am

How do 2 leg games work in rugby?

thomond2006 · 02-09-2020 10:56am

The Pro 14 playoffs are massive now. The Tier 1 sides will have a great opportunity to cruise through the pool stages.

AdamD · 02-09-2020 10:59am

What is the point in having a convuluted tournament to reduce the number of game weeks, to then go and have 2 legged knock outs...?

KBurke85 · 02-09-2020 10:59am

awec wrote: »

How do 2 leg games work in rugby?

Same as soccer aggregate scores

yerrahbah · 02-09-2020 11:02am

Are we sure Tier 1 status goes to the teams in the final of the Pro 14 and not who finished top of the two conferences?

If Leinster lose on Friday, are they going to be Tier 2 after going unbeaten in the regular season?

rayd3 · 02-09-2020 11:04am

Confirms Munster will lose this weekend as that’s the only way to end up playing La Rogelle.

Also, seems a bit too skewed towards the Tier 1 (Toulouse excepted). Reduces unpredictability/drama a good bit. I assume the finalists/winner of this years comp shoot into tier 1 also.

icdg · 02-09-2020 11:06am

I thought the rugby Powers that Be couldn’t come up with a more complicated format than the Anglo Welsh Cup.

I was wrong. The AWC is positively straightforward compared to this.I’ve watched the video and still don’t fully understand it.

The 24 teams are in two pools of twelve. Each pool consists of 4xLNR, 4xPRL, 4xP14

Each pool is further divided into four tiers. Each tier contains 1xLNR, 1xPRL 1xP14.

Tier 1 plays Tier 4 sides, but not in the same league Tier 2 likewise plays tier 4.

So for example, if (hypothetical draw) in Pool 1 Tier 1 consists of Lenister, Bordeaux, Exeter and Tier 4 consists of Gloucester, Montpellier, Glasgow, then Leinster play Gloucester and Montpellier home and away.

Or something like that.

awec · 02-09-2020 11:06am

yerrahbah wrote: »

Are we sure Tier 1 status goes to the teams in the final of the Pro 14 and not who finished top of the two conferences?

If Leinster lose on Friday, are they going to be Tier 2 after going unbeaten in the regular season?

Pro14 rankings have always took the playoffs into account.

It's not a method I like, but not much alternative given the silly conference system in the pro14.

molloyjh · 02-09-2020 11:15am

It isn't actually that confusing really, it's just the video goes through it too quickly. I also don't think it's actually skewed in favour of any tier either. The big teams that people want to avoid are the likes of Leinster, Exeter, Racing, Clermont and Toulouse. They are all scattered throughout the tiers. The way it is explained, i.e. tier 1 plays tier 4, sounds skewed. But when you look at the teams in those tiers you could be looking at Leinster playing Toulouse while Connacht play Edinburgh.

It is a bit of a mess though for just the 1 less game.

awec · 02-09-2020 11:17am

The only redeeming feature this has is it avoids having to play teams in the same league.

yerrahbah · 02-09-2020 11:19am

https://twitter.com/willgkelleher/status/1301099155448889345

Apparently Leinster are guaranteed Tier 1.

Munster or Ulster can take Tier 1 status from Edinburgh by winning the Pro14.

Winners of this years Champions Cup go into Tier 1

Winners of the Challenge Cup also qualify

Former Former · 02-09-2020 11:22am

AdamD wrote: »

What is the point in having a convuluted tournament to reduce the number of game weeks, to then go and have 2 legged knock outs...?

Good question - but I guess there will be two weekends scheduled for quarter-finals that will be free for 16 teams, and this gives an opportunity to play league games which have been postponed due to Covid

Tomtom364 · 02-09-2020 11:38am

yerrahbah wrote: »

https://twitter.com/willgkelleher/status/1301099155448889345

Apparently Leinster are guaranteed Tier 1.

Munster or Ulster can take Tier 1 status from Edinburgh by winning the Pro14.

Winners of this years Champions Cup go into Tier 1

Winners of the Challenge Cup also qualify

What if Munster win the Pro14 & Ulster win the Champions Cup... that would promote both to Tier 1 so how can Leinster be guaranteed tier 1? (extremely unlikely scenario)

crisco10 · 02-09-2020 11:45am

Tomtom364 wrote: »

What if Munster win the Pro14 & Ulster win the Champions Cup... that would promote both to Tier 1 so how can Leinster be guaranteed tier 1? (extremely unlikely scenario)

I suspect that is unknown at this stage but if Munster win the Pro14 and Ulster start motoring in Champions Cup it will be clarified that Leinster can indeed be Tier 2 in that scenario.

Former Former · 02-09-2020 11:45am

Tomtom364 wrote: »

What if Munster win the Pro14 & Ulster win the Champions Cup... that would promote both to Tier 1 so how can Leinster be guaranteed tier 1? (extremely unlikely scenario)

Have you seen them the last two weeks?

I'd say we're OK on that front.

BonnieSituation · 02-09-2020 11:47am

Eod100 wrote: »

Next season's Champions Cup format confirmed: https://www.the42.ie/champions-cup-format-202021-5193118-Sep2020/?utm_source=shortlink

I think I get it... I think... Hmmmm...

It's not as convoluted as a hurling championship or the Belgian Soccer League, so I guess that's something.

irelandrover · 02-09-2020 11:59am

Why are leinster guaranteed tier 1 for topping their group but Edinburgh aren't?

sydthebeat · 02-09-2020 12:07pm

Saracens CANNOT qualify for this competition

Tomtom364 · 02-09-2020 12:12pm

irelandrover wrote: »

Why are leinster guaranteed tier 1 for topping their group but Edinburgh aren't?

Yeah_Right · 02-09-2020 12:15pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Saracens CANNOT qualify for this competition

Thank you. I was trying to decipher this mess and it was making me as grumpy as Awec trapped in a toilet cubicle with David Nucifora. Then you cheered me right up

Eod100 · 02-09-2020 12:33pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I think I get it... I think... Hmmmm...

It's not as convoluted as a hurling championship or the Belgian Soccer League, so I guess that's something.

Tbh I'm just waiting for things to shake things up before thinking too much about it..!

Muligatawney · 02-09-2020 1:25pm

I'm totally happy with the group stage format considering the circumstances but really not sure about two-legged quarter finals. If anything an American style best of three series would work better for rugby but aggregate scores just have too many other issues.

The Lost Sheep · 02-09-2020 1:27pm

Muligatawney wrote: »

I'm totally happy with the group stage format considering the circumstances but really not sure about two-legged quarter finals. If anything an American style best of three series would work better for rugby but aggregate scores just have too many other issues.

How would best of three be better?

Zzippy · 02-09-2020 1:28pm

Crazy format. At least in other years if you won all your games you were guaranteed a quarter final spot. Now you could win all your games and still not qualify because another team you didn't even get to play had an easier draw.

02-09-2020 1:49pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Crazy format. At least in other years if you won all your games you were guaranteed a quarter final spot. Now you could win all your games and still not qualify because another team you didn't even get to play had an easier draw.

Huh? How so?

Buer · 02-09-2020 1:54pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Huh? How so?

It's feasible that 6 sides can win all their games in each pool. They don't play one another, just teams from lower tiers.

It's not particularly different to how teams finish as best runner up and can progress or be eliminated on points difference or tries scored despite playing completely different teams.

It's also quite unlikely we have multiple teams winning all their games.

awec · 02-09-2020 1:59pm

It’s worse since at least before if you won them all you were guaranteed to go through.

Imagine not going through after beating someone like Clermont home and away on your way to 4 wins, and missing out because some other team pumped the dragons and got bonus points.

Champions Cup 2019/20

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