Management Company Installed Gates

11-12-2019 12:36am

From my reading of the OP, it seems like they OP is unable to access their property without using the gates (ie its not just to prevent car parking, but actually completely prevents access to the complex, including pedestrian access to the apartments).

I'd have assumed this isn't legal, for various reasons. Including the health/safety aspect (what if there's a fire and you're effectively trapped inside, whilst the emergency services are trapped outside, although as a general rule the emergency services locally generally get set up on these gated systems or are given the key codes).

Sounds like OP would be within their right to make forceful entry/exit (ie; damaging the gates). You can't put someone under house arrest, nor effectively evict them because you feel like it.

road_high · 11-12-2019 12:46am

My estate management company base the parking permits on residents paying up- no payment= no permit and there’s a fairly rigorous clamping regime in place! Better just pay the thing, I’m sure it was well flagged ever before you moved in there so I doubt it was a surprise

11-12-2019 12:57am

elperello wrote: »

You could ask a neighbour what is the number to open the gate.

According to the OP it's a phone system.

My experience of these is that you get a phone number and you 'ring the gate', and it opens. However, if your own phone number isn't registered on the system, the gate won't open for you.

So if the number for the gate is 085-1234567, and I'm on the system, i ring it, and the gate opens. But if i give the number to my friend john to let himself in when delivering a sofa for me, it won't open as he isn't registered on the system.

elperello · 11-12-2019 1:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

According to the OP it's a phone system.

My experience of these is that you get a phone number and you 'ring the gate', and it opens. However, if your own phone number isn't registered on the system, the gate won't open for you.

So if the number for the gate is 085-1234567, and I'm on the system, i ring it, and the gate opens. But if i give the number to my friend john to let himself in when delivering a sofa for me, it won't open as he isn't registered on the system.

You are right. I'm sorry for giving bad info.
I should have remembered as I'm registered for a gate myself that I access sometimes.

Del2005 · 11-12-2019 1:34am

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

Yes iv been emailed to say they cannot process my application for the access system until the arrears are paid or an acceptable agreement is reached. I was in an agreement and have proof, he's saying there was no agreement made! Very difficult person to deal with.

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

I have a standing order going the past few years, I'm a bit behind due to unforseen circumstances and have submitted a proposal to pay arrears

Are you now in arrears on the arrears? Because the 2nd post would imply that you are.

Dav010 · 11-12-2019 8:25am

As anyone who owns a property in a gated development will know, they are expensive bits of kit, to buy and maintain. A board of MC is not going to make a unilateral decision to spend thousands without first discussing it at AGM. Gates like this are not put up over night. A MC has to make sure they have the money, research the types of systems, get prices, the gate company has to measure up, gates have to be specially made, then arrange fitting. I know when we got them, the process took months.

I do not mean to contradict the op, but one of the most frustrating problems Directors experience is getting complaints from members who either didn’t attend AGMs or spent the time on their phones rather than listening to important issues being discussed and decided apon. The op has now said the gates were discussed a couple of times at AGMs. In relation of fire brigade, they have the codes for gates.

handlemaster · 11-12-2019 9:07am

Mod Note

Do not bring race into this.
Consider this an on thread warning.

hmmm · 11-12-2019 9:09am

"Without any agreement from residents" - usually only those who have paid their fees can vote at an AGM.

I doubt any MC has decided to do this out of the blue. Sounds like they've done this to pressure people who are not paying their fees, and sounds like it is working - good on them. If I was the director of a MC I wouldn't be engaging in discussions with individual apartment owners about anything related to the complex, particularly those who haven't paid their fees so I'm not surprised that they are claiming this is a surprise to them.

Hoboo · 11-12-2019 9:21am

handlemaster wrote: »

Have u paid your fees ? Or are you been Irish letting others pay up and your benefiting?

Rather than trolling, it would serve you better to read the thread first, then brush up on your grammar.

Darc19 · 11-12-2019 9:41am

I think the op is not giving the right information.

I'll lay anything that only car park access is closed off to her and she is well able to access via a pedestrian gate.

Basically, the op has not paid the management fees, therefore should not get the benefits of the common areas except to access her door.

Access by foot is as much as necessary.

Op seems to want all the benefits of apartment living without paying for them including public liability insurance, general upkeep, lighting of common areas etc.

Some would call people like this a sponger

Fair play to management company for getting tougher on non payers - all omc's should do similar

Dav010 · 11-12-2019 9:56am

Darc19 wrote: »

I think the op is not giving the right information.

I'll lay anything that only car park access is closed off to her and she is well able to access via a pedestrian gate.

Basically, the op has not paid the management fees, therefore should not get the benefits of the common areas except to access her door.

Access by foot is as much as necessary.

Op seems to want all the benefits of apartment living without paying for them including public liability insurance, general upkeep, lighting of common areas etc.

Some would call people like this a sponger

Fair play to management company for getting tougher on non payers - all omc's should do similar

Totally agree, the wording the op is using may be misleading.

When we installed the gating system, all owners were given the keypad number to open the gates, only those who had paid their fees were given programmed zappers and connection to the gates through intercom system for guests. That meant those who hadn’t paid had to get out of cars in the wind and rain to open gates. A lot of subscriptions were paid in the weeks that followed.

In an apartment complex where the parking spaces are not owned by the unit owners, owners may have access through pedestrian gate, but not car entrance.

Op may not have access to the phone system which allows easy entree and opening for guests, but I would suspect the first sentence of this thread would be about having to sleep outside if she wasn’t able to get in to her property.

handlemaster · 11-12-2019 10:21am

Hoboo wrote: »

Rather than trolling, it would serve you better to read the thread first, then brush up on your grammar.

It's not a grammar test love

handlemaster · 11-12-2019 10:22am

handlemaster wrote: »

Mod Note

Do not bring race into this.
Consider this an on thread warning.

We are all the same race

Cuddlesworth · 11-12-2019 10:24am

Graham wrote: »

I've head of that happening before, restrictions to access parking etc.

Never heard of access to an apartment being prevented.

I have, it's usually the common area doors. They change the codes/cards and then refuse to provide ones to the apartments in arrears. Or refuse to provide replacements.

To go to the expense of putting in gates and a access system, they must have a serious arrears problem. It was probably that or go bankrupt.

Homer · 11-12-2019 10:27am

handlemaster wrote: »

We are all the same race

Absolutely.. just some of us were born with manners.

loyatemu · 11-12-2019 10:50am

I've heard of mgmt companies restricting access to parking etc if you are in arrears on the fees, but preventing you getting into your own apartment is a whole other ball game, and surely can't be legal.

Lantus · 11-12-2019 11:18am

loyatemu wrote: »

I've heard of mgmt companies restricting access to parking etc if you are in arrears on the fees, but preventing you getting into your own apartment is a whole other ball game, and surely can't be legal.

Most standard contract leases will specify that both use and right of access to a common area is dependant and contingent on payment of fees. A section of common area usually has to be accessed and used before the apartment owners own front door is reached.

It's not used enough and there is a ticking time bomb of under investment in managed apartment blocks which is yet to hit when major repairs to lifts, roofs and other big building elements hit. You can bet good money that the first to complain the omc didn't do enough are the cohort who didn't pay.

loyatemu · 11-12-2019 11:25am

Lantus wrote: »

Most standard contract leases will specify that both use and right of access to a common area is dependant and contingent on payment of fees. A section of common area usually has to be accessed and used before the apartment owners own front door is reached.

It's not used enough and there is a ticking time bomb of under investment in managed apartment blocks which is yet to hit when major repairs to lifts, roofs and other big building elements hit. You can bet good money that the first to complain the omc didn't do enough are the cohort who didn't pay.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be surprised if a mgmt company could completely deny someone access to their own apartment. You can put what you like in a lease, it doesn't change the law or the constitution.

Eire Go Brach · 11-12-2019 11:40am

I find this very unlikely happened without a vote.
They can’t spend money without shareholders agreeing on this.
As an owner you are a shareholder. Have you attended all the management meetings?

Remember as an owner you are a shareholder in the management company. You employ an agent to manage the apartments.

Gumbo · 11-12-2019 11:59am

handlemaster wrote: »

We are all the same race

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road_high · 11-12-2019 12:15pm

There's never any secret about management fees before you move into an estate or complex. So there's little point in decididn you can't pay them after moving in.

Mrs OBumble · 11-12-2019 12:21pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be surprised if a mgmt company could completely deny someone access to their own apartment. You can put what you like in a lease, it doesn't change the law or the constitution.

But they don't own the apartment. They only own a very long term lease of it. Which they are not compliant with.

My guess is that the gates were voted on a an AGM ages ago, and ths discussion since has been about when they would be installed.

Amirani · 11-12-2019 12:24pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I have, it's usually the common area doors. They change the codes/cards and then refuse to provide ones to the apartments in arrears. Or refuse to provide replacements.

In my experience this is normally more likely to happen in institutionally-owned developments, where people haven't paid their rents.

Haven't heard of it happening with an OMC and owners over unpaid management fees (except in relation to car parking).

Donald Trump · 11-12-2019 12:27pm

The real scandal is probably the amount of spongers who won't pay their share of the upkeep. Happy to lump it on to their neighbours to force them to stump up more to cover the missing money.

Amirani · 11-12-2019 12:29pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But they don't own the apartment. They only own a very long term lease of it. Which they are not compliant with.

This is incorrect and not how leasehold ownership works. You shouldn't make categorical statements like this when you don't have an understanding of property law.

The OP does own the apartment (the buildings). They don't own the land on which it's built, and thus are subject to paying ground rent on it.

bikeman1 · 11-12-2019 12:35pm

In our complex, you have to have a payment plan in place or else you won't get:

A fob - this allows access to your block and also the bin store. No theoretically you can stand outside the door and wait for someone to come in or out, but that would be a real hassle and you could be waiting a while, as well as looking dodgy.

Parking permits are issued every 6 months, if you are not up to date your car will be clamped, so your allocated space is useless as well.

If you are in the underground car park you don't get the remote to open the gates either.

All this makes it awkward for owners, so not paying up is not really an option. Compliance levels have gone up. Finally, if and when you do sell, the outstanding fees will have to be settled before the sale will close. It is a lose lose situation.

The_Conductor · 11-12-2019 12:52pm

Amirani wrote: »

This is incorrect and not how leasehold ownership works. You shouldn't make categorical statements like this when you don't have an understanding of property law.

The OP does own the apartment (the buildings). They don't own the land on which it's built, and thus are subject to paying ground rent on it.

Typically the owner owns a lease on the apartment building which is personal to them- however, it is a lease nonetheless. The building *is* vested in the management company- as are all the common areas. I have copies of leases from 7 or 8 different apartment and multiuser developments on my desk here- they don't vary on this core structure.

The OP owns a lease- they are not the owner of the apartment building- and have limited rights to what they can or cannot do with their unit (which is not limited to structural change- very often it can detail floor types or partition wall finishes.

I live in a townhouse- with an apartment underneath me- and am in the same boat. Some day hopefully I'll live somewhere where I do own the building and can do what I like- for now- I have to live within the remit of the lease that governs my occupation of my unit.

I'm not even clear how or why you seem insistent that the OP owns their unit- there was an old concept of ground rent- where you leased the ground on which a dwelling was built and paid a token annual rent. Apartments don't work in that manner though.

Please be careful when you're giving advice- or contradicting someone else- as you risk giving someone else bad information.

ClubDead · 11-12-2019 1:01pm

I could be completely wrong, but......

It might be a way to force communication with residents that aren't paying fee's. I moved from an estate that had management fees last year (never again!). During that time, more and more people stopped paying or owed massive amounts of money. The estate suffered and it got to the point that waste wasn't collected some weeks. From speaking to the management company I learned that it was virtually impossible to get people to pay up (due to zero communication and cost of legally going after these people).

In my estate, they resorted to only giving keys to bin sheds to paying residents in an effort to force communication with non payers. This could be a last resort by your management company to address this issue. Having lived in a estate such as this, I would welcome such efforts.

ted1 · 11-12-2019 1:03pm

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining of a safer place... I'm complaining of my access being block to my property? The gates were erected without any agreement at an agm.. Even the director on the management company wasn't aware

It’s won’t be any safer ,it’ll be more expensive to maintain and cause a nuisance when having visitors or deliveries

ted1 · 11-12-2019 1:05pm

Aoife_Byrne wrote: »

They did it without a vote... It was mentioned at agms once or twice over the past few years but never actually agreed upon

Did they obtain planning permission for the gate ?

Management Company Installed Gates

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