Views on new Templecarrig admission policy

FirstIn · 16-12-2013 1:05pm

Lots of expectations. However are they more than that, or just expectations?

Annasopra · 16-12-2013 1:14pm

recedite wrote: »

Well done to Stephen Donnelly for being "on the ball".
The Minister for Education has given a very straight answer to the question.

To be honest I'm not sure if the Ministers statement changes much.

recedite · 16-12-2013 4:19pm

Politicians tend to sniff the air and see what public opinion is before making definite pronouncements. Which is fair enough because they are after all, public representatives.
The outcome of something like this depends to some extent on what people want it to be.

In the past, people chose sectarianism and that's how we ended up with the privately owned school system with its in-built religious discrimination.

Do people really want religious discrimination transferred to the new system of state-owned schools? If not, now is the time to make your opinions known to the politicians.

MouseTail · 16-12-2013 11:27pm

The people of Greystones and Delgany chose quite conclusively a Faith based school over 2 more inclusive models. The CoI campaign never hid its colours, it spoke of prayers, faith based assemblies and priority (outside category 2) for CoI families at the Open Evening. Noone present asked the question of priority within category 2.

I agree that the Ministers statement changes little, this enrolment policy is in line with their application as long as they do not prioritise children outside the feeder schools.

zanador · 16-12-2013 11:45pm

MouseTail wrote: »

The people of Greystones and Delgany chose quite conclusively a Faith based school over 2 more inclusive models. The CoI campaign never hid its colours, it spoke of prayers, faith based assemblies and priority (outside category 2) for CoI families at the Open Evening. Noone present asked the question of priority within category 2.

I agree that the Ministers statement changes little, this enrolment policy is in line with their application as long as they do not prioritise children outside the feeder schools.

This is true - the original criterion was ambiguous as to priority, as long as the places offered were to children of the locality.

zanador · 16-12-2013 11:53pm

liamf wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the admissions policy which applied for the 2014 intake? This has been removed from the school website.

I would like to do a comparison.

Category 1 - Children from the 7 local national schools who live in the parish

Category 2 -Children from surrounding CoI parishes who go to listed schools
St.Patrick’s NS, Greystones Delgany NS, Delgany
St.Andrew’s NS, Bray Powerscourt NS, Enniskerry
St.Francis NS, Newcastle

Category 3 - Children residing in greystones parish who do not attend schools listed in Categories one or two

Category 4 - Children who live in CoI parishes of Bray, Newcastle, Enniskerry and attend national school in Greystones/Delgany

Category 5 - all other children

recedite · 16-12-2013 11:58pm

MouseTail wrote: »

The CoI campaign never hid its colours, it spoke of prayers, faith based assemblies and priority (outside category 2) for CoI families at the Open Evening. Noone present asked the question of priority within category 2.
I agree that the Ministers statement changes little, this enrolment policy is in line with their application as long as they do not prioritise children outside the feeder schools.

They have prioritised a certain amount of places for pupils from outside the feeder schools.
The original highest priority was for Cat 1, ie the 7 local primary schools. They were all supposed to have equal priority.

Now we have a new Cat 0 for staff, clergy, management, families with siblings. None of these have to be living locally.

We have 12 places (so far) from Cat 2 given priority over Cat I.

And to top it all, it turns out that when they said all 7 local schools would have equal priority, they meant that a protestant attending one of CoI schools would have equal priority to a protestant attending one of the other schools. Anyone who didn't spot that one, has only themselves to blame, apparently.

MouseTail · 17-12-2013 12:37am

I doubt they stated in their application that all children in the feeder schools had equal priority.
As a Faith school, of couse they were going to prioritise CoI within that group.
The only problem they may have is with the 12 places.

FirstIn · 17-12-2013 9:55am

My take:
The 12 from outside the area is wrong. Definitely not ahead of local kids.

Kids of clergy, i.e not local. That's wrong also.

Staff of the school and siblings already in the school, makes sense.

With the local kids if there is an over subscription priority should be given to COI, because it is a faith based school and that is the way state funded faith based schools operate the county over. I don't give a rats arse that this is state owned, it's state funded just like all the others. Also a COI kid that doesn't get in here has no local alternatives.

liamf · 17-12-2013 10:36am

zanador wrote: »

Category 1 - Children from the 7 local national schools who live in the parish

Category 2 -Children from surrounding CoI parishes who go to listed schools
St.Patrick’s NS, Greystones Delgany NS, Delgany
St.Andrew’s NS, Bray Powerscourt NS, Enniskerry
St.Francis NS, Newcastle

Category 3 - Children residing in greystones parish who do not attend schools listed in Categories one or two

Category 4 - Children who live in CoI parishes of Bray, Newcastle, Enniskerry and attend national school in Greystones/Delgany

Category 5 - all other children

Thanks, that's what I thought it would say.

Wicklow Will · 17-12-2013 10:57am

I think some posters here are being deliberately obtuse. They seem to forget that this is a two stage build and once completed will have a capacity of 800+ There will be more than sufficient capacity in it to accommodate CoI, RC, Hindu, Buddist, Muslim, those of other faiths and none when it is completed. People seem to forget that not all local Protestant parents will chose to send their kids to Temple Carrig. Some will have historical affiliations with other schools such as Andrews, St. Columba's etc and will send them to these. They also seem to neglect the other secondaries in the area which, when you take account of the increased capacity provided by TC, will have more capacity to enrol students.

As I said before, storm in a tea cup and I would respectfully suggest the scaremongers stopping stirring nasty unwarranted tensions!

recedite · 17-12-2013 3:46pm

Wicklow Will wrote: »

There will be more than sufficient capacity in it to accommodate CoI, RC, Hindu, Buddist, Muslim, those of other faiths and none when it is completed.

Then why this change in the admission policy?

Zoo4m8 · 17-12-2013 3:52pm

Wicklow Will wrote: »

I think some posters here are being deliberately obtuse. They seem to forget that this is a two stage build and once completed will have a capacity of 800+ There will be more than sufficient capacity in it to accommodate CoI, RC, Hindu, Buddist, Muslim, those of other faiths and none when it is completed. People seem to forget that not all local Protestant parents will chose to send their kids to Temple Carrig. Some will have historical affiliations with other schools such as Andrews, St. Columba's etc and will send them to these. They also seem to neglect the other secondaries in the area which, when you take account of the increased capacity provided by TC, will have more capacity to enrol students.

As I said before, storm in a tea cup and I would respectfully suggest the scaremongers stopping stirring nasty unwarranted tensions!

Nail on the head...... Very well said!

recedite · 17-12-2013 5:23pm

Is asking for for equality in a State school really just "stirring nasty unwarranted tensions"?

Of the 12 places allocated to people from outside Greystones, each of these will be the eldest child of their family. Their younger siblings will all get a place in Cat 0. Assuming a small family size of average 1.5 children/family, that translates as 18 places including siblings. If those 12 nominal places are increased to 18 in 2016, that translates into 27 places, including siblings, which is basically a classroom full. It’s unlikely there will much more demand than that from the COI primary schools in Newcastle and Enniskerry to attend a secondary school in Greystones, so the idea that Cat 2 is below Cat 1 in terms of priority is not realistic.

Why not call a spade a spade? Here is the proposed admission policy categorised as it is described;

Cat 1 First Priority
Applicants who are the children of staff, clergy and management. Also other COI applicants from Greystones, Delgany and the surrounding parishes of Bray, Newcastle and Enniskerry who can produce a written Affirmation of Active Parish involvement.

Cat 2 Second Priority
Miscellaneous other protestants, “lapsed” COI persons, offspring of “mixed marriages” etc. who were attending any of the seven feeder schools in Greystones/Delgany.

Cat 3 Third Priority
Anyone else attending any of the seven feeder schools in Greystones/Delgany.

Further categories are irrelevant, because the school will be full before all those in Cat 3 get a place.

potpourri · 17-12-2013 5:59pm

recedite wrote: »

Is asking for for equality in a State school really just "stirring nasty unwarranted tensions"?

Of the 12 places allocated to people from outside Greystones, each of these will be the eldest child of their family. Their younger siblings will all get a place in Cat 0. Assuming a small family size of average 1.5 children/family, that translates as 18 places including siblings. If those 12 nominal places are increased to 18 in 2016, that translates into 27 places, including siblings, which is basically a classroom full. It’s unlikely there will much more demand than that from the COI primary schools in Newcastle and Enniskerry to attend a secondary school in Greystones, so the idea that Cat 2 is below Cat 1 in terms of priority is not realistic.

Why not call a spade a spade? Here is the proposed admission policy categorised as it is described;

Cat 1 First Priority
Applicants who are the children of staff, clergy and management. Also other COI applicants from Greystones, Delgany and the surrounding parishes of Bray, Newcastle and Enniskerry who can produce a written Affirmation of Active Parish involvement.

Cat 2 Second Priority
Miscellaneous other protestants, “lapsed” COI persons, offspring of “mixed marriages” etc. who were attending any of the seven feeder schools in Greystones/Delgany.

Cat 3 Third Priority
Anyone else attending any of the seven feeder schools in Greystones/Delgany.

Further categories are irrelevant, because the school will be full before all those in Cat 3 get a place.

Add on to what you have outlined above, the fact that the new Education Act may allow pre-existing admission policies to remain in force, so it would make sense to get enshrined in your policy measures that might fall outside accepted practice later on!

FirstIn · 17-12-2013 7:19pm

Recedite, I agree with you re the 12 places from outside the locality is wrong, also I think the clergy allowance form outside is wrong. Those places should all be for local children.

However you are scaremongering. You have too many if this and assume this. You are painting a picture , predicated on non facts, that is far worse than it actually is.

By the way, is there something that says these 12 places will go to eldest children? Now that would be something!

recedite · 17-12-2013 8:57pm

FirstIn wrote: »

By the way, is there something that says these 12 places will go to eldest children? Now that would be something!

Yes, any siblings already get priority by being in what they are now calling Cat 0. They don't need to be handpicked out of Cat 2 in order to skip ahead of so called Cat 1.
That is not exactly highlighted in the policy, but when it happens they will say they are complying exactly with what the stated policy was in Dec 2013, and they will be right.

FirstIn · 17-12-2013 9:54pm

recedite wrote: »

Yes, any siblings already get priority by being in what they are now calling Cat 0. They don't need to be handpicked out of Cat 2 in order to skip ahead of so called Cat 1.
That is not exactly highlighted in the policy, but when it happens they will say they are complying exactly with what the stated policy was in Dec 2013, and they will be right.

Sorry. You've lost me there. The eldest child part. The 12 extra (wrongly in my opinion preferential places) what says they will go to the eldest child of a fsmily as you said? Surely these places could go to a families youngest or second or whatever child.

Wicklow Will · 17-12-2013 10:46pm

Could I just point out, with regard to the allocation to CoI clergy's children from Parishes other than Greystones and Delgany, that we are talking about maximum of three permanent clergy! I hardly think that this allocation is excessive.

If people think back to the time of the original bid for patronage of the school the results speak for themselves. The people who voted for the CoI knew exactly for what they were voting - the clue is in the name of the organisation! Could I be permitted to be so patronising to put it as bluntly as this - people hardly expected a faith based organisation to discriminate AGAINST members of its own congregations did they?

As for panicking that there won't be any places left for non-protestants, I again repeat: Can anyone show me a protestant run secondary school in this country that doesn't have pupils of other religions and none on its roll? The answer is No - the truth is that there simply are not sufficient protestant children in the country to exclude other children from the schools.

I also wonder why none of those taking issue with the Temple Carrig BOM 2015 enrollment policy have bothered to post a link to their reply to their detractors? I think they make their case most clearly and comprehensively as you will see here:
http://www.templecarrigschool.ie/Board%20of%20Management%20response%20to%20concerns%20raised%20around%20the%202015%20Admissions%20Policy.pdf

Finally, as far as I can see, quite a number of those taking issue with TC and its BOM are the same as those who began to take issue with the awarding of the Patronage to the Church of Ireland last year. Seems to be a bit of a bug bear with many of you .... makes me wonder Why!?!?!

zanador · 17-12-2013 10:57pm

The main anger is coming from some of the Catholic parents as they feel as though they signed up under false pretenses as during the campaign the CoI said that they wouldn't prioritise children of their own faith and yet they are.

The issue of whether or not there will be enough places for everyone, well only time will tell - but if even just 121 children apply for 120 places then 20 are gone straight away to CoI (ignoring the additional 12 for the moment).

Personally it doesn't effect me, but the question of prioritising on religious grounds does interest me - I believe it is discriminatory, yet it seems to be accepted here as the way things should be. It's interesting in sociological and cultural terms - and is something I don't believe will last beyond the next 30 years. So, yes TC are doing it, as are everybody else - but should they (or anyone) be allowed to? That's the important question for me.

I am very interested to see what happens once the furore dies down and people realise their children will get in. You can bet many of the ideological arguments will stop once they have a place.

Estman · 17-12-2013 11:45pm

I’ve just checked the admissions policy at St David’s and there is no priority given to families that are active parish members or anything along those lines. It’s policy is focused on locals and a first come first in basis.

By my calculation there are currently nearly 300 primary school children leaving each year from the 6 primary schools at the moment and this will increase to about 400 when children from the two new primary schools (Educate Together and Gael Scoil) fill up. There is also a greater demand for places in these 7 schools than there are places available even with the two new primary schools.

With Temple Carrig and St David’s each having a capacity of 120 students per year this leaves at least 160 students finishing primary level at the 7 primary schools that must go to secondary schools outside Greystones each year.

While I don’t agree with any policy that gives priority to one faith over another in any school, I think a compromise would be if Temple Carrig were to put an upper limit of say 10% of the full enrolment for each year to allow for Category 0 (staff) plus Category 1 that may apply under the CoI Active Parish Affiliation.

Wicklow Will · 18-12-2013 12:05am

zanador wrote: »

The main anger is coming from some of the Catholic parents as they feel as though they signed up under false pretenses as during the campaign the CoI said that they wouldn't prioritise children of their own faith and yet they are.

The issue of whether or not there will be enough places for everyone, well only time will tell - but if even just 121 children apply for 120 places then 20 are gone straight away to CoI (ignoring the additional 12 for the moment).

Personally it doesn't effect me, but the question of prioritising on religious grounds does interest me - I believe it is discriminatory, yet it seems to be accepted here as the way things should be. It's interesting in sociological and cultural terms - and is something I don't believe will last beyond the next 30 years. So, yes TC are doing it, as are everybody else - but should they (or anyone) be allowed to? That's the important question for me.

I am very interested to see what happens once the furore dies down and people realise their children will get in. You can bet many of the ideological arguments will stop once they have a place.

Zandor, if you extrapolate on what you are saying then A) 120 minus 20 leaves 100 places for other children to enrol,

I don't see anywhere that the CoI have renaged on any of their undertakings in their 2015 policy, they're still making places available to non CoI kids, they're simply ensuring that children of their own faith are not excluded by virtue of their minority status and fewer numbers versus the greater number of non CoI kids who would otherwise overwhelm their applications if there wasn't some way to prioritise CoI kids applications. To do otherwise would be akin to say C) asking the GAA (who, incidentally received far in excess of what TC will cost, from exchequer funding) to allow both the FAI and the IRFU equal and unrestrained access to Croke Park and to play their matches as and when they please, ad infinitum. Would that be fair or reasonable? What we are talking about here is Fairness. There is no "exclusion" rather a "weighting" to ensure that a minority are not excluded.

Why may I ask, did people (including RC's and non-believers) vote for the CoI to run the school if they object to the smaller number of CoI kids in the region being able to access an education influenced by their own ethos? I imagine they did so because they knew that there are smaller number of Protestant kids in the region and their own kids stand a reasonable chance of admission thereafter and will receive a good education along the lines for which schools like this are well known.

I also notice that my other point about the prevalence of the same posters here and on the thread bemoaning the awarding of the patronage to the CoI went without comment!

zanador · 18-12-2013 12:16am

Yep, it's positive discrimination - and I understand why they are doing it.

My point is that I don't think ANY schools should be able to to prioritise using religion to change this would involve a complete overhaul of the patronage system which is not feasible at the moment. I am watching this question with interest on a national level.

I am not arguing about TC in particular, only to try and be factual about what is going on. I don't agree with them - but it has no relevance to me. I have a clear grasp of the facts and figures as pertain to Greystones so will put them in.

I didn't comment on the other point because I understood it as a dig of some sort but I wasn't clear as to whom it was directed. If you have a point to make please make it clearly - I don't want to assume but will happily respond to a direct question!

Wicklow Will · 18-12-2013 12:44am

Estman wrote: »

I’ve just checked the admissions policy at St David’s and there is no priority given to families that are active parish members or anything along those lines. It’s policy is focused on locals and a first come first in basis.

By my calculation there are currently nearly 300 primary school children leaving each year from the 6 primary schools at the moment and this will increase to about 400 when children from the two new primary schools (Educate Together and Gael Scoil) fill up. There is also a greater demand for places in these 7 schools than there are places available even with the two new primary schools.

With Temple Carrig and St David’s each having a capacity of 120 students per year this leaves at least 160 students finishing primary level at the 7 primary schools that must go to secondary schools outside Greystones each year.

While I don’t agree with any policy that gives priority to one faith over another in any school, I think a compromise would be if Temple Carrig were to put an upper limit of say 10% of the full enrolment for each year to allow for Category 0 (staff) plus Category 1 that may apply under the CoI Active Parish Affiliation.

Eastman, if you check again you'll see that in St. David's admission policy priority is given to kids of staff /management - who get automatic admission and to siblings of existing students. This then extends to kids of people living in the Roman Catholic parishes surrounding Greystones.

As far as I'm concerned it's a Roman Catholic school and they have the prerogative to set their policies as they chose as I'm perfectly sure they wouldn't turn down a Protestant kid if they had the place available.

Incidentally, it's worth noting the following paragraph in St. David's admission policy " Total school enrolment is determined annually by the Board of Management as is the right of a Board of Management. This is to safeguard the health and safety of all in the confined area of the school and ensure the best possible educational provision for each student.

St David’s Secondary School, Greystones, Co. Wicklow welcomes all students for whom the school can provide an appropriate education (subject to the proviso highlighted above) "

Am I right in suggesting that they, the BOM of St. David's, give themselves far greater and less transparent leeway in deciding who they admit to the student cohort than TC BOM. I think I just might be.... But I don't hear too many decrying this fact! For the record I'm one of these happy to concede this right to the BOMs as they are the bodies charged with managing the affairs in the best interests of all concerned. In practice they are generally populated by fair-minded, reasonable and conscientious individuals who do their best to be accommodating and fair to all concerned. Why can people not trust to these peoples' obvious civic minded spirits in making these decisions? The BOMs are unpaid for this service (except for the principal) and give of their time and energy free-of-charge to run the schools.

recedite · 18-12-2013 1:23am

FirstIn wrote: »

Sorry. You've lost me there. The eldest child part. The 12 extra (wrongly in my opinion preferential places) what says they will go to the eldest child of a fsmily as you said? Surely these places could go to a families youngest or second or whatever child.

Basically this mechanism is to take preferred people out of Cat 2 and propel them ahead of those ordinary locals in Cat 1.
The younger siblings of the 12 will not be in Cat 2. They will be in Cat 0.
Cat 0 is a new category for 2015 which has already been placed ahead of Cat 1.
At this stage you might wonder why Cat I is still called the first category when there are so many ahead of it. The answer is that it looks better to be able to say all seven local primary schools are still equally in Cat 1, the first category, and this is technically correct, even if it is now meaningless.
And the more confusing it is for "the detractors" the better. When they are refused a place, the less they know, the less they have to complain about.

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Why can people not trust to these peoples' obvious civic minded spirits in making these decisions?

LOL see above

FirstIn · 18-12-2013 1:30am

So there is nothing that says the 12 must be the eldest as you said. So you are scaremongering. You are saying non truths recedite.

Shazerina · 18-12-2013 7:17am

Here's a section from the admissions policy for the ET secondary school opening in D15 in sept:
Priority 1
Students who reside permanently in named housing estates or streets in Castaheany, Ongar, Hansfield, Phibblestown and Littlepace (see appendix 1).
Students who satisfy any of the above criteria have automatic access if places are available in the school. If the number of applications exceeds the number of places available, a process of random selection will apply. The remainder will be placed on a waiting list.
Priority 2
Students who at time of application attend an Educate Together national school.
Priority 3
All other applicants.

Seems fair... Although personally I think ET secondary schools need to give first priority to ET primary attendees. Seeing as each needs to look after its own and all that...

cocker5 · 18-12-2013 9:20am

Not sure what all the fuss is about really.... storm in a tea cup.

:rolleyes:

recedite · 18-12-2013 10:27am

That's the thing about discrimination. The people who are advantaged by it can never understand what all the fuss is about.
The people who are disadvantaged always seem to be whingeing and looking for their rights.

recedite · 18-12-2013 10:29am

FirstIn wrote: »

So you are scaremongering. You are saying non truths recedite.

I tried as well as I could to explain it to you.

cocker5 · 18-12-2013 11:37am

recedite wrote: »

That's the thing about discrimination. The people who are advantaged by it can never understand what all the fuss is about.
The people who are disadvantaged always seem to be whingeing and looking for their rights.

Im not advantaged by it what so ever.... it makes no diffrence to me.

As far as I can see the same/very similar rules apply in all Faith lead schools.... not just in COI schools so what's the shock in this case...

If people dont like it then maybe educate together is the way forward for your family.

At the end of the day you make the decision to apply / send your children to a certain school as a result you abide by their rules / admission rules... its quiet simple to me...

Its not like there is only one school in Greystones / Delgany... there are a few so make your choice based on your needs / wants for your child and then abide by thier rules... whatever that may be ... catholic, COI or other.

Honestly have we not more important things to be worrying about in this day and age apart from squabbling over admission rules (which all schools have I might add) is crazy - just in my opinion.

:rolleyes:

Annasopra · 18-12-2013 5:13pm

recedite wrote: »

That's the thing about discrimination. The people who are advantaged by it can never understand what all the fuss is about.
The people who are disadvantaged always seem to be whingeing and looking for their rights.

Who is disadvantaged by it in this case?

milosh · 18-12-2013 6:21pm

Estman wrote: »

I’ve just checked the admissions policy at St David’s and there is no priority given to families that are active parish members or anything along those lines. It’s policy is focused on locals and a first come first in basis.

By my calculation there are currently nearly 300 primary school children leaving each year from the 6 primary schools at the moment and this will increase to about 400 when children from the two new primary schools (Educate Together and Gael Scoil) fill up. There is also a greater demand for places in these 7 schools than there are places available even with the two new primary schools.

With Temple Carrig and St David’s each having a capacity of 120 students per year this leaves at least 160 students finishing primary level at the 7 primary schools that must go to secondary schools outside Greystones each year.

Realistically, at least 100 of the parents of these kids will still choose to send their kids to school outside of Greystones because of tradition, demand for fee paying schools, demand for a single sex education, reputation etc. I would think that many CoI parents will still choose St. Andrews and a large number of Greystones kids will still go to Pres and the Loreto schools.

While I think it is only right to prioritise places for active Protestant families, I don't think that it can be claimed that all the other schools discriminate in their admissions policies. Pres operates 2 lists, one for siblings and sons of past pupils and one for everyone else on a first come first served basis, regardless of religion. David's makes no mention of prioritising Catholics. Loreto prioritises it's junior school then it is first come first served as far as I know. Most of these school's intake mirror the population (by religion).

stilltryingit · 19-12-2013 1:53pm

cocker5 wrote: »

Im not advantaged by it what so ever.... it makes no diffrence to me.

As far as I can see the same/very similar rules apply in all Faith lead schools.... not just in COI schools so what's the shock in this case...

If people dont like it then maybe educate together is the way forward for your family.

At the end of the day you make the decision to apply / send your children to a certain school as a result you abide by their rules / admission rules... its quiet simple to me...

Its not like there is only one school in Greystones / Delgany... there are a few so make your choice based on your needs / wants for your child and then abide by thier rules... whatever that may be ... catholic, COI or other.

Honestly have we not more important things to be worrying about in this day and age apart from squabbling over admission rules (which all schools have I might add) is crazy - just in my opinion.

:rolleyes:

The issue is that people believe that this new admission policy for 2015 departs from the commitment given at the outset to give equal access to children from the 7 local schools.There was no problem with the policy in place for 2014 admissions as it upheld this commitment.

cocker5 · 19-12-2013 2:55pm

stilltryingit wrote: »

The issue is that people believe that this new admission policy for 2015 departs from the commitment given at the outset to give equal access to children from the 7 local schools.There was no problem with the policy in place for 2014 admissions as it upheld this commitment.

Ok fair enough, but in reality polices change / adapt etc its a fact of life.

Lets be realistic here its not like a child will be denied access to all the schools in the area and therefore denied an education it is?

Come on I'm sure all the schools in the area are equally as good etc so the child will still get a place in school and with it an education....

I still go back to my point have people nothing more serious to worry about in this day and age.

Being denied an education is one thing but changing a admission policy for a school causing this much distress in another level altogether - this is ridiclous IMO

recedite · 19-12-2013 5:55pm

Migrant advocacy group calls for an end to religious discrimination in school admission policies.

The example in the article refers to a privately owned RC school.
St Davids in Greystones, which is also a privately owned RC school, is to be commended for dropping the religious discrimination which was written into its admission policy up until a few years ago.
The new publicly funded school Templecarrig is wholly owned by the State, and only managed by the COI. They are stepping back into the past to dredge up prejudices which were once acceptable, and trying to introduce these into a new 21st century publicly owned school system.

In other parts of the country where the COI is less influential, there will be new State owned schools built with tax money raised in part from local members of the COI. If such a school was handed over to a RC patron to manage, those local COI members would find themselves at the other end of the stick, and would no doubt be campaigning against any discrimination in the admission policy. Some would choose a COI boarding school anyway, but others would prefer to attend a local State school if they could get admission to it.

Far better if the State treats all citizens equally; up until now, no school owned by the State has ever enforced a policy of religious discrimination. Even many of the schools owned by the religious are phasing it out.

FirstIn · 19-12-2013 9:28pm

Don't kid youself here ,
According to an earlier post St David's is way under capacity. I'd bet my bottom dollar that if they were over subscribed you would see a change to their admission policy.

stilltryingit · 20-12-2013 5:19pm

FirstIn wrote: »

Don't kid youself here ,
According to an earlier post St David's is way under capacity. I'd bet my bottom dollar that if they were over subscribed you would see a change to their admission policy.

It's possible that St David's might introduce criteria to select if they were over subscribed. However the key difference is that they did not get the patronage of that school by stating that they would not use religious affiliation as a criterion for selection. I imagine that St David's was also funded by the Catholic church either through provision of the site or a contribution to building costs. TC is different as it is entirely state funded and in the patronage campaign they gave people to believe that they would allow equal access to children from the 7 feeder schools no matter what their religion.

FirstIn · 20-12-2013 7:53pm

St David's is very very close to 100% state funded.

Without the state neither school would exist. Simple.

And as has been shown in plenty of the previous posts only the niaive believed that this faith based school wouldn't prioritise their own faith to some degree. It's a faith based school at the end of the day.

stilltryingit · 21-12-2013 11:22pm

FirstIn wrote: »

St David's is very very close to 100% state funded.

Without the state neither school would exist. Simple.

And as has been shown in plenty of the previous posts only the niaive believed that this faith based school wouldn't prioritise their own faith to some degree. It's a faith based school at the end of the day.

I think it's a matter of trust rather than naiveté. People asked questions and were given answers and assurances at meetings and in person. What is proposed for 2015 does not honour those assurances. I suppose it's all a bit too like politics at this stage, promises are made, manifestos issued and once the vote has been obtained there is no follow through.I expected more from COI and yes, in hindsight,maybe that was naive.

potpourri · 21-01-2014 7:57pm

FirstIn wrote: »

St David's is very very close to 100% state funded.

Without the state neither school would exist. Simple.

And as has been shown in plenty of the previous posts only the niaive believed that this faith based school wouldn't prioritise their own faith to some degree. It's a faith based school at the end of the day.

As pointed out earlier St David's school does not include priority for members of any religion.
Also, the reality is that patronage was sought on the basis of equal access for children from all seven local schools.
There is a basic issue here of trust.

loyatemu · 21-01-2014 9:39pm

potpourri wrote: »

As pointed out earlier St David's school does not include priority for members of any religion.

they don't have to - the school has been undersubscribed for years - everyone who applies gets in.

they also don't have to worry about their "ethos" as even in Greystones the majority of kids coming out of 6th class are Catholic.

sinkadinka · 21-01-2014 11:31pm

The point is that when COI were looking for support to win patronage of the secondary they reiterated at their meeting in st Patrick's that the admissions policy would not be based on religious denomination. They have regaled on this and they should be made to revert their admissions policy back to what they led people believe they were supporting ie a secondary school for the seven feeder schools in Greystones regardless of religious denomination. Whilst I accept they have to have some restrictions in place in the event of over subscription, why can't they put in a lottery system which would mean everyone would have a fair chance. I feel very let down by the way this is turning out, I have 2 kids whom I was planning on sending to Templecarrig but now I feel they won't get a place based on the new admissions policy.

Alan_P · 21-01-2014 11:42pm

loyatemu wrote: »

they don't have to - the school has been undersubscribed for years - everyone who applies gets in.

That's not true. My daughter was refused a place in St. David's in 2012, on the grounds it was full.

Cheeky Chops · 22-01-2014 12:07am

Alan_P wrote: »

That's not true. My daughter was refused a place in St. David's in 2012, on the grounds it was full.

Alan what on earth were your options then? Awful.

I've heard David's do entrance exams. What are these and are TC doing them as well?

FirstIn · 22-01-2014 1:24am

Great news re St David's being full. (Obviously not for the earlier contributor)

With TC opening and St David's running at capacity then surely all the kids from the 7 local schools wanting to be schooled locally will be catered for.

Remember a lot of local kids go to the private dart line secondary schools and i imagine that will continue when TC opens. Anyone getting the 8am train will back me on that! It is packed with kids going to these schools.

I don't think there's anything to worry about.

Cheeky Chops · 22-01-2014 9:17am

Just to give you an example of one Greystones 6th class. 3 are going to fee paying schools, 27 to TC and 1 to David's.

Alan_P · 22-01-2014 10:12am

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Alan what on earth were your options then? Awful.

David's wasn't our first choice anyway, so it wasn't a big issue. But I did wonder what we'd have done if she hadn't had a place somewhere else.

recedite · 22-01-2014 11:30am

FirstIn wrote: »

I don't think there's anything to worry about.

Not for you anyway, you''ll be first in on the basis of the religious discrimination.
The bottom line is; discrimination on the grounds of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation is always unacceptable where something is in public ownership and is publicly funded.

liamf · 22-01-2014 12:09pm

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I've heard David's do entrance exams. What are these and are TC doing them as well?

A lot of schools do these *after* places have been allocated, its not that unusual.

Their purpose is not student selection. Their purpose - in principle - is to assess the level of the new students in the core subjects since this tends to vary a bit depending on which national school they have come from, and give the schools a view on which of the incoming students might need extra help.

I don't know if TC will do this.

Views on new Templecarrig admission policy

Comments