Asti strike action

beauf · 20-09-2020 8:10pm

Seems impossible to have a reasonable and reasoned discussion on this issue, in this this forum. Which is disappointing. Be interesting to see how the strike works out. I won't be greatly effected by it either way. I'm just surprised how fast we got to strike as the only option considering everything else going on.

beauf · 20-09-2020 8:17pm

The Belly wrote: »

not yet but unions across the board are starting up

Hardly surprising. Someone is going to have to pay for all this. Not everyone got back what they lost have the last crash and compromises were made in the name of the recovery. A lot of people are still bitter about that, and can see a repeat on the horizon.

amacca · 20-09-2020 8:25pm

beauf wrote: »

I'm simply asking what statistics is this ballot on...

Not sure how simply asking a questions, or exploring the issues in discussion is being riled up. Even if I was, it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Are we not allowed ask questions in a thread about education....

Who said you couldnt ask questions? You are imagining some sort of attempted censorship I think...

You did ask what will you have tried (i presume you meant teachers) ...I responded by saying that the attempt is already underway

You either dont like the answers you are getting to your questions and seek to obfuscate rather than engage or you dont understand the responses fully

Posters not necessarily fully agreeing with you or questioning you is debate not censorship

byhookorbycrook · 20-09-2020 8:29pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Any word from the primary school unions?

INTO have tweeted about a crossword .

khalessi · 20-09-2020 8:41pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

INTO have tweeted about a crossword .

Maybe there are cues in the answers:D

They also tweeted they're in talks
https://twitter.com/INTOnews/status/1307318001952329730

amacca · 20-09-2020 8:43pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

INTO have tweeted about a crossword .

That gave me a good laugh.......

20-09-2020 9:03pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Sorry but I don't give a flying ****. Its about health and lives. You don't win a dispute by getting the public on side. You get it by pissing them off. Unfortunately a lot of teachers raised on the bull**** propagated by the independent believe they are lucky to have any old job at all. Remember joe public thought we'd have a soft landing and Eamon gilmore would save them from all cutbacks.So forgive me if I don't give a **** what you or joe public thinks !

And this is why the public will think you are a bunch of snowflakes.

I think you are misjudging public sentiment if you go forward with this attitude. Everyone is worried about going back to work, about family members, about paying their mortgage and groceries. In the past, most people would be mildly interested in what you do, as long as it didn’t effect them to much. But considering we all have had to go back to work even though there are health concerns, I am certain there will be no sympathy for you, in fact, I think there will be anger. This could actually be the opportunity the Government has been waiting for to slap down the unions, this time with public support.

You don’t give a flying f**k about the effect on our children and jobs, with public anger directed toward you, you reap what you sow.

byhookorbycrook · 20-09-2020 9:15pm

amacca wrote: »

That gave me a good laugh.......

They had to be messaged by many to remove the tweet and think more in terms of members dying .

The Belly · 20-09-2020 9:16pm

Dav010 wrote: »

And this is why the public will think you are a bunch of snowflakes.

I think you are misjudging public sentiment if you go forward with this attitude. Everyone is worried about going back to work, about family members, about paying their mortgage and groceries. In the past, most people would be mildly interested in what you do, as long as it didn’t effect them to much. But considering we all have had to go back to work even though there are health concerns, I am certain there will be no sympathy for you, in fact, I think there will be anger. This could actually be the opportunity the Government has been waiting for to slap down the unions, this time with public support.

You don’t give a flying f**k about the effect on our children and jobs, with public anger directed toward you, you reap what you sow.

Your not wrong there is no mood for strikes. It will back fire in a big way if it happens.

s1ippy · 20-09-2020 9:18pm

The Belly wrote: »

Your not wrong there is no mood for strikes. It will back fire in a big way if it happens.

I'm pretty sure it's got absolutely nothing to do with your mood.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 9:19pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I think you are misjudging public sentiment if you go forward with this attitude.

Oh you're wrong, because reading boards we know exactly what the public sentiment is, and it can't really get any worse.

Also, what is the public going to do? Not honk their horns at the picket?

Polka_Dot · 20-09-2020 9:22pm

I know that pay inequality is an ongoing issue and not the priority right now, but I would also like to see the 2 tier system for the new Covid supervision challenged. It makes no sense to me that this new job, that nobody is more or less qualified to do, is being paid at two different rates depending on when teachers qualified.

The Belly · 20-09-2020 9:23pm

s1ippy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's got absolutely nothing to do with your mood.

My mood is just perfect I was making a comment on public sentiment.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 9:28pm

The Belly wrote: »

Your not wrong there is no mood for strikes. It will back fire in a big way if it happens.

Backfire?

Like what? Not send your kids to school as a protest?

Explain?

20-09-2020 9:28pm

Blondini wrote: »

Oh you're wrong, because reading boards we know exactly what the public sentiment is, and it can't really get any worse.

Also, what is the public going to do? Not honk their horns at the picket?

Can’t get any worse? Our kids missed 3 months of school, there is anger over the LC results this month, your strike will mean our kids are off again and parents will have to take time off work to look after kids because grand parents aren’t there to help out, you think public sentiment can’t get any worse? Are you serious?

20-09-2020 9:30pm

Blondini wrote: »

Backfire?

Like what? Not send your kids to school as a protest?

Explain?

The arrogance and lack of awareness for what others are facing right now is truly nauseating.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 9:31pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Can’t get any worse? Our kids missed 3 months of school, there is anger over the LC results this month, your strike will mean our kids are off again and parents will have to take time off work because to look after kids because grand parents aren’t there to help out, you think public sentiment can’t get any worse? Are you serious?

I'm much much more concerned about my health than public sentiment I can assure you.

Sentiment won't make me sick but Covid might.

s1ippy · 20-09-2020 9:32pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Can’t get any worse? Our kids missed 3 months of school, there is anger over the LC results this month, your strike will mean our kids are off again and parents will have to take time off work to look after kids because grand parents aren’t there to help out, you think public sentiment can’t get any worse? Are you serious?

You're seeing now how the strike would work. Good. If the government could only figure it out like you have they might ensure safer school environments to avoid the strike action. That would be the entire point.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 9:33pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Can’t get any worse? Our kids missed 3 months of school, there is anger over the LC results this month, your strike will mean our kids are off again and parents will have to take time off work to look after kids because grand parents aren’t there to help out, you think public sentiment can’t get any worse? Are you serious?

Public sentiment doesn't matter a damn.

As far as I'm aware, every strike in the last 5 years has resulted in some concessions.
Remember the LUAS drivers in 2016? Striked during the 1916 commemoration, threatened to strike during the leaving cert. Massive public backlash and they still won more pay and better conditions.

Dav010 wrote: »

The arrogance and lack of awareness for what others are facing right now is truly nauseating.

Exactly what professional challenges are others facing that are worse than clear breaches of NPHET guidelines that may threaten public health?

Blondini · 20-09-2020 9:33pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The arrogance and lack of awareness for what others are facing right now is truly nauseating.

Oh go away. Others? You think everyone in my family are teachers?

Others as you call them are 99% of the people in my family and friends.

beauf · 20-09-2020 9:34pm

I guess it will depend who the politicians want to appease most. The majority or the minority.

Especially if it opens the flood gates to other public sector unions.

Boards certainly doesn't reflect the majority of people. Increasing less so in recent years.

20-09-2020 9:35pm

Blondini wrote: »

I'm much much more concerned about my health than public sentiment I can assure you.

Sentiment won't make me sick but Covid might.

You think you have the monopoly on concern for health? Every worker does right now, but we are getting on with it.

If most people don’t go back to work due to Covid, they sign up for PUP if they are eligible and risk losing their job. But what you are doing will effect hundreds of thousands of students and their parents.

Polka_Dot · 20-09-2020 9:38pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Can’t get any worse? Our kids missed 3 months of school, there is anger over the LC results this month, your strike will mean our kids are off again and parents will have to take time off work to look after kids because grand parents aren’t there to help out, you think public sentiment can’t get any worse? Are you serious?

None of which was the fault of teachers. Most of us did our best with online learning. Students and a vocal minority lobbied for calculated grades. We don't want to be in a position where students miss more school and have the same things happen again, but with the inadequate provisions at the moment, that is how it is heading. The disruption a strike causes will be nothing compared to if we have massive school shutdowns.

20-09-2020 9:40pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Public sentiment doesn't matter a damn.

As far as I'm aware, every strike in the last 5 years has resulted in some concessions.
Remember the LUAS drivers in 2016? Striked during the 1916 commemoration, threatened to strike during the leaving cert. Massive public backlash and they still won more pay and better conditions.

Exactly what professional challenges are others facing that are worse than clear breaches of NPHET guidelines that may threaten public health?

None of them were striking in the middle of a pandemic which has had a catastrophic effect on our economy/employment and effected children’s education to such an extent.

This time the risk is that the massive backlash will be against teachers.

Smacruairi · 20-09-2020 9:42pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You think you have the monopoly on concern for health? Every worker does right now, but we are getting on with it.

If most people don’t go back to work due to Covid, they sign up for PUP if they are eligible and risk losing their job. But what you are doing will effect hundreds of thousands of students and their parents.

We don't mind going on pup. That's fine. That's not the threat you think it is when we are talking about safety conditions for your kids!

Smacruairi · 20-09-2020 9:44pm

Dav010 wrote: »

None of them were striking in the middle of a pandemic which has had a catastrophic effect on our economy/employment and effected children’s education to such an extent.

This time the risk is that the massive backlash will be against teachers.

What backlash? You only have to read any teacher thread, the vast vast majority of commenters who disagree with us just hate teachers full stop. I can point them out for you if you want.what would the back lash be? They stop sending kids to school? Education isn't made an election priority?

beauf · 20-09-2020 9:51pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

What backlash? You only have to read any teacher thread, the vast vast majority of commenters who disagree with us just hate teachers full stop. I can point them out for you if you want.what would the back lash be? They stop sending kids to school? Education isn't made an election priority?

If you look at housing. The solution was to commercialise it, outsource it.
Ignore everyone who falls between the gaps. Unless it got votes.

rainbowtrout · 20-09-2020 9:52pm

Dav010 wrote: »

None of them were striking in the middle of a pandemic which has had a catastrophic effect on our economy/employment and effected children’s education to such an extent.

This time the risk is that the massive backlash will be against teachers.

So would you prefer that there are inadequate safety precautions implemented in schools? Because that's how it is right now. So in the coming months if a lot of teachers contract the virus schools will shut anyway, because there won't be enough subs to replace them. There isn't as it is.

You seem to want to ignore the core issue just to bash teachers.

s1ippy · 20-09-2020 9:52pm

Dav010 wrote: »

This time the risk is that the massive backlash will be against teachers.

What are the public going to do, force school staff into dangerous working conditions during a pandemic? I honestly think you might not understand the topic.

beauf · 20-09-2020 9:53pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

So would you prefer that there are inadequate safety precautions implemented in schools? Because that's how it is right now. So in the coming months if a lot of teachers contract the virus schools will shut anyway, because there won't be enough subs to replace them. There isn't as it is.

You seem to want to ignore the core issue just to bash teachers.

Robot teachers. That's what we need.

Smacruairi · 20-09-2020 9:54pm

beauf wrote: »

If you look at housing. The solution was to commercialise it, outsource it.
Ignore everyone who falls between the gaps. Unless it got votes.

Ok, forgive me but I'm struggling to see your point on this one

lawrencesummers · 20-09-2020 9:54pm

It’s a pity the staff at nursing homes didn’t vote for strike action when they were being ignored by the HSE and knew there was a problem.

Hopefully the teachers get the adequate protection they need.

s1ippy · 20-09-2020 9:56pm

beauf wrote: »

Robot teachers. That's what we need.

Nope
https://hechingerreport.org/the-future-includes-good-human-teachers/

20-09-2020 9:56pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

What backlash? You only have to read any teacher thread, the vast vast majority of commenters who disagree with us just hate teachers full stop. I can point them out for you if you want.what would the back lash be? They stop sending kids to school? Education isn't made an election priority?

I don’t hate teachers, but I will if my son who is in fifth year has to stay home again because of a strike. I would if either myself or my wife had to take time off work to look after kids. I will if you continue to be paid your wage while others have had their wages cut to €200 because Covid effected their job. And I will make my anger known to the teachers in my son’s school, and not by refusing to honk a car horn.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:00pm

Dav010 wrote: »

And I will make my anger known to the teachers in my son’s school, and not by refusing to honk a car horn.

Assault? Physical or verbal? Tyre slashing? What?

I'm sure they're quaking.

Look at the big picture and not just your own little world.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 10:01pm

Dav010 wrote: »

None of them were striking in the middle of a pandemic which has had a catastrophic effect on our economy/employment and effected children’s education to such an extent.

This time the risk is that the massive backlash will be against teachers.

As I said, public opinion matters nothing at all.

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t hate teachers, but I will if my son who is in fifth year has to stay home again because of a strike. I would if either myself or my wife had to take time off work to look after kids. I will if you continue to be paid your wage while others have had their wages cut to €200 because Covid effected their job. And I will make my anger known to the teachers in my son’s school, and not by refusing to honk a car horn.

It's nice to know your motivation is purely self involved. You're less concerned with the health of teachers, more concerned with your own career.
But as I said, it doesn't matter how angry you get. If it goes to strike (not confirmed) your feelings won't matter a damn.

EDIT: As a matter of interest, are either you or your spouse required to spend all day in a room with 30 people with little social distancing?

rainbowtrout · 20-09-2020 10:01pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t hate teachers, but I will if my son who is in fifth year has to stay home again because of a strike. I would if either myself or my wife had to take time off work to look after kids. I will if you continue to be paid your wage while others have had their wages cut to €200 because Covid effected their job. And I will make my anger known to the teachers in my son’s school, and not by refusing to honk a car horn.

If your son's teachers get covid because of inadequate protection, he'll be at home anyway. Are you going to let your anger be known to his teachers then?:rolleyes:

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:01pm

No connection with teaching, but in fairness the ASTI members played a blinder with 2020 LC marking and all that.

But now is not the time to protest methinks. Keep your powder dry as there will be ZERO support out there. Careful here.

Smacruairi · 20-09-2020 10:02pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t hate teachers, but I will if my son who is in fifth year has to stay home again because of a strike. I would if either myself or my wife had to take time off work to look after kids. I will if you continue to be paid your wage while others have had their wages cut to €200 because Covid effected their job. And I will make my anger known to the teachers in my son’s school, and not by refusing to honk a car horn.

Why haven't you made your anger known about the absolute debacle of the schooling conditions. Are you ok with your son being in rooms of 20+ for hours at a time? It doesn't have to be this way, my friend.

beauf · 20-09-2020 10:03pm

s1ippy wrote: »

Nope
https://hechingerreport.org/the-future-includes-good-human-teachers/

Well if the choice is between nothing and bad bots, there be no other option.

Polka_Dot · 20-09-2020 10:04pm

From the ASTI website regarding the ballot:

"The ASTI Central Executive Committee met today and decided to ballot its members in relation to a number of key issues which have emerged since schools re-opened. The meeting heard that ASTI members have serious concerns about the health and safety of school communities. Issues raised include:

Physical distancing in schools
Provision of PPE
The definition of close contacts
Comprehensive testing and testing turnaround times
Provisions for high risk teachers
IT resources for students and teachers to facilitate remote teaching/ learning"

Can someone please tell me what there is unreasonable? What you think we should "get on with" at the risk of students' (believe it or not, we do care about them) and staff health?

um7y1h83ge06nx · 20-09-2020 10:05pm

I hope teachers go on a massive strike and don't hold back on the anger and vitriol. Maybe stay on strike for a few months while they're at it.

It might bring years of messing about to a head. The ASTI either get what they want or get so badly damaged that any future threats of industrial action are off the table for a long time.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:05pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

But now is not the time to protest methinks. Keep your powder dry as there will be ZERO support out there. Careful here.

I couldn't give a craap if there's no support. Throw banana skins and milkshakes at me all you want. Support won't keep me alive.

This is too important. The timing is not an option.

beauf · 20-09-2020 10:05pm

Yeah bots, would solve most of that.

Count Hairyfoot · 20-09-2020 10:06pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t hate teachers, but I will if my son who is in fifth year has to stay home again because of a strike. I would if either myself or my wife had to take time off work to look after kids. I will if you continue to be paid your wage while others have had their wages cut to €200 because Covid effected their job. And I will make my anger known to the teachers in my son’s school, and not by refusing to honk a car horn.

So you don't hate them as long as they don't inconvenience you in any way. That's very big of you and I'd love to know what you mean by "and not by refusing to honk a car horn"

But let me ask you this - are there any circumstances, any at all, while you have a child in school, that you would support a teacher strike?

Spanish Eyes · 20-09-2020 10:07pm

Polka_Dot wrote: »

From the ASTI website regarding the ballot:

"The ASTI Central Executive Committee met today and decided to ballot its members in relation to a number of key issues which have emerged since schools re-opened. The meeting heard that ASTI members have serious concerns about the health and safety of school communities. Issues raised include:

Physical distancing in schools
Provision of PPE
The definition of close contacts
Comprehensive testing and testing turnaround times
Provisions for high risk teachers
IT resources for students and teachers to facilitate remote teaching/ learning"

Can someone please tell me what there is unreasonable? What you think we should "get on with" at the risk of students' (believe it or not, we do care about them) and staff health?

Similar could be said for supermarket checkout people and those that have served us so well in many spheres for the last six months or so.

Teachers are not Gods. They did serve us well with the LC and I admire them for that, no question.

But pick your battles at the right time FGS.

Smacruairi · 20-09-2020 10:10pm

Alanna Most Tightrope wrote: »

I hope teachers go on a massive strike and don't hold back on the anger and vitriol. Maybe stay on strike for a few months while they're at it.

It might bring years of messing about to a head. The ASTI either get what they want or get so badly damaged that any future threats of industrial action are off the table for a long time.

To be honest, I'm all for this. One big blowout, get everything sorted. Too much tik tak.
Can I add that anyone working for jct or pdst on secondment gets placed back in the classroom too to help out ffs.

Blondini · 20-09-2020 10:10pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Similar could be said for supermarket checkout people and those that have served us so well in many spheres for the last six months or so.

Teachers are not Gods. They did serve us well with the LC and I admire them for that, no question.

But pick your battles at at the right time FGS.

Okay, I'll just get Covid on the phone now and tell it hold off for a while.

FGS yourself.

Padre_Pio · 20-09-2020 10:13pm

Count Hairyfoot wrote: »

So you don't hate them as long as they don't inconvenience you in any way. That's very big of you and I'd love to know what you mean by "and not by refusing to honk a car horn"

But let me ask you this - are there any circumstances, any at all, while you have a child in school, that you would support a teacher strike?

There has been DOZENS of strike thread on Boards over the years, it doesn't matter whether public support is there or not. Teachers/nurses/bus/train/LUAS drivers strike and the government always gives in.

And in fairness, as much as it pains me to admit it, they're usually right. Usually someone in management has f*cked up so badly that a strike is deserved.
I am not a teacher and I'd hate to be one. It's less about teaching and more about being a social care, mental health, sex ed, guidance councillor.

Most teachers would say that parents are the worst part of the job, as so many parents are so busy and detached from what their child is experiencing day to day that they expect teachers to pick up the slack.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why? I always see this argument. Surely teachers should have a better grasp of logic

A member of the public thinking that teachers get paid too much for what they do does not have to equate to either a desire to do that work, or to a statement that it is a highly paid salary.

In a sense I agree, but people making these comments usually have no experience into what being a teacher is like and fall into the stereotypical "shur they only work 6 hours a day colouring in pictures" thinking.

Count Hairyfoot · 20-09-2020 10:14pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Similar could be said for supermarket checkout people and those that have served us so well in many spheres for the last six months or so.

Teachers are not Gods. They did serve us well with the LC and I admire them for that, no question.

But pick your battles at the right time FGS.

These would be the same supermarkets where you had to queue up outside to keep the numbers down? With the exception of the supply of PPE none of the points are at all similar.

Asti strike action

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