M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

spacetweek · 11-12-2015 12:32am

Irish_rat wrote: »

Will this be Motorway or HQDC?

Not decided yet.

Limerick74 · 11-01-2016 10:49pm

Closing date for comments on Preferred Route Corridor extended to 29th January.

marno21 · 07-03-2016 6:20pm

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=96925&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Tender has gone out today for a Topological Aerial Survey of the route to take place. Would seem to indicate route has been selected

Limerick74 · 07-03-2016 8:04pm

marno21 wrote: »

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=96925&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Tender has gone out today for a Topological Aerial Survey of the route to take place. Would seem to indicate route has been selected

Preferred Route Corridor was announced last December, see www.foyneslimerick.ie for maps.

Mango Joe · 08-03-2016 2:20pm

Can anyone provide a likely date for this to open?

ie. just wondering are we talking Q3 2018 etc?

- Prob won't be on it much but looking forward to lighter traffic flow and less trucks etc on the N69 which struggles with its current load.....

pajoguy · 08-03-2016 2:41pm

It has to go to detailed survey, design, Environmental Impact Assessment, Planning, Tender, Contract Award amongst other things so I would imagine all going to plan a commencement in maybe Q1-2 of 2018 with a 2 year build programme. Something along those lines but I am open to correction.

Edit: Cpo somewhere in there too which could delay it a few months.

Mango Joe · 08-03-2016 3:58pm

Ah I'll be chauffeur driven by then anyhow......

Limerick74 · 08-03-2016 5:45pm

CPO late 2017, Construction start 2019 with 3 to 4 years to build (30+kms) so not open until 2023 or so.

Chris_5339762 · 08-03-2016 11:06pm

3 -4 years build is way OTT. 2 years will have this done. That said, various usual intractable delays may make 2023 not unlikely.

marno21 · 08-03-2016 11:08pm

The southern half of the Rathkeale bypass is being re-surfaced at the moment. Surprising enough considering it'll be used in this upgrade.

Cookiemunster · 09-03-2016 10:57am

marno21 wrote: »

The southern half of the Rathkeale bypass is being re-surfaced at the moment. Surprising enough considering it'll be used in this upgrade.

That could be 4-5 years off. That's a lot of journeys on a poorly surfaced road.

Limerick74 · 09-03-2016 5:00pm

marno21 wrote: »

The southern half of the Rathkeale bypass is being re-surfaced at the moment. Surprising enough considering it'll be used in this upgrade.

The Foynes to Limerick scheme includes an upgrade of the eastern half of the Rathkeale Bypass, whereas the resurfacing is on the western end of the bypass.

marno21 · 09-03-2016 6:13pm

Limerick74 wrote: »

The Foynes to Limerick scheme includes an upgrade of the eastern half of the Rathkeale Bypass, whereas the resurfacing is on the western end of the bypass.

Had a look at the route corridor in the meantime and noticed this, didn't get a chance to post in the meantime.

Will be nice coming off the DC onto an upto scratch road.

marno21 · 18-05-2016 1:15am

This scheme is going to make such a difference to the village of Adare and it's tourist value. There was 2 buses worth of tourists on the street today at 3pm but they were extremely restricted at what they could do as both directions through the village were jammed with traffic, including several HGVs.

Should be information on this soon as the last update was that the comments on Preferred Route Corridor were closing on January 29th

Limerick74 · 10-06-2016 4:21pm

The Route Selection Report for the Foynes to Limerick scheme is up on the website www.foyneslimerick.ie

clappyhappy · 11-06-2016 1:34am

So has the orange route being selected? If so my brothers home is gone as is the family home place. So sad......

marno21 · 11-06-2016 1:39am

clappyhappy wrote: »

So has the orange route being selected? If so my brothers home is gone as is the family home place. So sad......

Yes, Route 3/Orange has been selected.

Have you been approached about the CPO yet? If not bear in mind that the corridor is 300m wide so not everything it's path will be flattened.

pajoguy · 11-06-2016 8:38pm

Very true, depending on the detailed design and topograhy of the area the land take may only be 40m wide in places up to 100m max if the is a massive cut or fill. Those figures are rough estimates on minimum or maximum. The route corridor is 300m wide. But of course its a worry.I imagine people will not be contacted until a detailed design is done and through An Board Pleanala.

clappyhappy · 11-06-2016 9:23pm

marno21 wrote: »

Yes, Route 3/Orange has been selected.

Have you been approached about the CPO yet? If not bear in mind that the corridor is 300m wide so not everything it's path will be flattened.

They were told last Feb that if the orange route is the choose one their house would be gone, the house below them may stay. My brother said he would prefer for the house to be gone than living right beside the motorway. Such a shame to see a fabulous home destroyed.

spacetweek · 13-06-2016 12:42pm

clappyhappy wrote: »

They were told last Feb that if the orange route is the choose one their house would be gone, the house below them may stay. My brother said he would prefer for the house to be gone than living right beside the motorway. Such a shame to see a fabulous home destroyed.

Do you mind us asking where the house is exactly?

clappyhappy · 13-06-2016 9:06pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Do you mind us asking where the house is exactly?

Between croagh and Rathkeale.

marno21 · 14-06-2016 12:28am

From the R523 turnoff (the old N21 road through Rathkeale, the turnoff is just after Croagh going westbound) to the junction on the Rathkeale BP is all being done online so there will be little/no landtake.

Perhaps the house is in the path of where the tie-in will be from the new road bypassing Croagh to where it'll meet the Rathkeale BP.

Conba · 14-06-2016 8:17am

I believe I know where this house is and understand why it'll be gone. And I used to be admiring it when I first saw it built - there was so obviously a lot of pride and joy around it :-(

marno21 · 21-06-2016 4:49pm

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/209644/limerick-foynes-route-selection-report-issued.html

More complaining.

Ardrageen · 22-06-2016 1:49pm

marno21 wrote: »

More complaining.

In fairness, I think people are allowed to raise concerns if their livehoods/family homes will be affected. This route has the least affect on my family and relations so I am delighted with it but I think I would have a right to be annoyed if it was coming through my land.

Treepole · 23-06-2016 2:06pm

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/209644/limerick-foynes-route-selection-report-issued.html

More complaining.

Where's the complaining?
All the article is doing is repeating the facts contained in the report.

marno21 · 04-07-2016 2:02pm

marno21 wrote: »

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=96925&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Tender has gone out today for a Topological Aerial Survey of the route to take place. Would seem to indicate route has been selected

Tender for this was awarded today. Good to see it progressing.

Hopefully see alignment & junction details in the next 6 months

marno21 · 08-07-2016 8:22pm

Two tenders gone out for Ground Investigation today:

First for the 'M518' element, Foynes-Rathkeale: https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=100800&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Second for the M21 element, Rathkeale-Adare: https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=100799&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Both close 04 August.

spacetweek · 09-07-2016 10:05am

Where did you get M518 from?

marno21 · 09-07-2016 1:25pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Where did you get M518 from?

I say 'M518' (with the quotation marks) in the sense that it shadows the existing R518. We haven't heard yet if this section will be N69 or a national primary route

Irish_rat · 09-07-2016 7:09pm

marno21 wrote: »

I say 'M518' (with the quotation marks) in the sense that it shadows the existing R518. We haven't heard yet if this section will be N69 or a national primary route

Surely it'll be N69. I don't think it'll be M anyway probably type 2 dual.

I reckon the N21 section to Rathkeale will be motorway, the AADT would be much higher if not requiring HQDC standard road. Still future proofing is key.

Leonard Hofstadter · 09-07-2016 11:31pm

I agree, with it being TII funded and part of TEN-T, as well as being the future main road from Foynes and Askeaton to Limerick, it will surely be called the N69, and that road will terminate near Rathkeale where it merges with the new N21?

L1011 · 10-07-2016 1:16am

TEN-T does not require motorway despite a number of posts on here - the Larne A8 upgrade was TEN-T funded and is at grade DC with roundabouts.

marno21 · 10-07-2016 2:15am

Irish_rat wrote: »

Surely it'll be N69. I don't think it'll be M anyway probably type 2 dual.

I reckon the N21 section to Rathkeale will be motorway, the AADT would be much higher if not requiring HQDC standard road. Still future proofing is key.

Seeing as there's a national primary route to Waterford & Dun Laoighre port, neither of which are TEN-T core ports, it wouldn't surprise me if the new route was national primary, seeing as the main reason for the existing N69 being a national secondary road is seeing as it's a tourist/coast road; see all the N69 tour signs along the route. It doesn't really lead anywhere, bar Tralee which is already accessed by the N21. Listowel will be easily accessed by using the M21 to Reens Pike then the R523 to Listowel via Athea, Carrigkerry etc.

L1011 wrote: »

TEN-T does not require motorway despite a number of posts on here - the Larne A8 upgrade was TEN-T funded and is at grade DC with roundabouts.

It was mentioned here before that the N28 upgrade was motorway standard because it had to be so to meet TEN-T standards. The A8 upgrade is of very poor standard tho, at grade roundabouts, LILOs & median crossings, very surprrising it's upto the task especially for a route with lots of HGVs.

spacetweek · 10-07-2016 8:52pm

marno21 wrote: »

Seeing as there's a national primary route to Waterford & Dun Laoighre port, neither of which are TEN-T core ports, it wouldn't surprise me if the new route was national primary, seeing as the main reason for the existing N69 being a national secondary road is seeing as it's a tourist/coast road; see all the N69 tour signs along the route. It doesn't really lead anywhere, bar Tralee which is already accessed by the N21. Listowel will be easily accessed by using the M21 to Reens Pike then the R523 to Listowel via Athea, Carrigkerry etc.

The more I think it through the more I think you're right - the new Foynes road will probably be assigned a new national primary number. There are many reasons to do it - retaining N69 Foynes-Limerick as a coast road means you don't have to change signs along there and you still have a coastal route from Limerick to Tralee. I think the next available number is N34 so that gets my vote.

marno21 wrote:

It was mentioned here before that the N28 upgrade was motorway standard because it had to be so to meet TEN-T standards. The A8 upgrade is of very poor standard tho, at grade roundabouts, LILOs & median crossings, very surprrising it's upto the task especially for a route with lots of HGVs.

I prefer our approach - I think we're not scared anymore to build big when it comes to roads. The completion of the bulk of the motorway network in 2010 has maybe raised people's expectations. We've seen what a proper road network looks like and it seems to be agreed that this is the level the rest of the projects should aim for. Pity we haven't made the same conceptual leap for public transport, which still aims low.

marno21 · 10-07-2016 9:29pm

spacetweek wrote: »

The more I think it through the more I think you're right - the new Foynes road will probably be assigned a new national primary number. There are many reasons to do it - retaining N69 Foynes-Limerick as a coast road means you don't have to change signs along there and you still have a coastal route from Limerick to Tralee. I think the next available number is N34 so that gets my vote.

I prefer our approach - I think we're not scared anymore to build big when it comes to roads. The completion of the bulk of the motorway network in 2010 has maybe raised people's expectations. We've seen what a proper road network looks like and it seems to be agreed that this is the level the rest of the projects should aim for. Pity we haven't made the same conceptual leap for public transport, which still aims low.

Yep, N34 sounds likely. Possibly a short stretch of M34 approaching the M21 if TII haven't inherited the NRA gene of building **** underpowered junctions.

I hope we keep at the M roads instead of HQDC nonsense. No point in building motorway grade roads with 100km/h limits (speed traps) and free for alls of tractors, cyclists, pedestrians and animals.

pigtown · 10-07-2016 10:50pm

The documents outlining the preferred route presume motorway for N21 section and wide single-lane N road from Rathkeale to Foynes. Can't remember which doc but it's on the website somewhere

pajoguy · 10-07-2016 11:53pm

pigtown wrote: »

The documents outlining the preferred route presume motorway for N21 section and wide single-lane N road from Rathkeale to Foynes. Can't remember which doc but it's on the website somewhere

If they go wide single they should really upgrade to dual. Which type not sure.
The croom bypass is wide single and is like a rat race morning and evening. People bullying cars into hard shoulder and often seen people overtaking cars that are already overtaking cars in hard shoulder. Notbsure what accident history is on this road buts its not a nice road to drive at peak times.

marno21 · 11-07-2016 12:58am

pajoguy wrote: »

If they go wide single they should really upgrade to dual. Which type not sure.
The croom bypass is wide single and is like a rat race morning and evening. People bullying cars into hard shoulder and often seen people overtaking cars that are already overtaking cars in hard shoulder. Notbsure what accident history is on this road buts its not a nice road to drive at peak times.

I presume wide single in this instance is modern day Type 1 Single Carriageway (2x 3.65m lanes, 2x 2.5m hard shoulders), compared with the Croom BP which is 2x 5.0m lanes & 2x 3.0m hard shoulders.

Regardless of the M20 being suspended, the Croom BP dualling should be done earlier simply for safety purposes

spacetweek · 11-07-2016 2:12pm

marno21 wrote: »

Croom BP which is 2x 5.0m lanes & 2x 3.0m hard shoulders

You sure that's right? 2x 5.0 metres?

marno21 · 11-07-2016 2:32pm

spacetweek wrote: »

You sure that's right? 2x 5.0 metres?

Yep that's it

3.0m H/S | 5.0m lane | 5.0m lane | 3.0m H/S

It's a ridiculous amount of pavement for a 2 lane road. 2/3km further south it's a 2 lane road with a pavement 8/9m narrower.

spacetweek · 11-07-2016 8:22pm

marno21 wrote: »

Yep that's it

3.0m H/S | 5.0m lane | 5.0m lane | 3.0m H/S

It's a ridiculous amount of pavement for a 2 lane road. 2/3km further south it's a 2 lane road with a pavement 8/9m narrower.

You're right - clearly visible here.
That's 8 metres each side. If you widened 1.5 more metres, you'd have 9.5, which could easily be divided up: 2.0 hard strip, 3.5 lane, 3.5 lane, 0.5 central barrier. Very easy to upgrade to 4 lanes.

marno21 · 11-07-2016 8:48pm

Yep, it looks even wider north of the GSJ (which will be closed up as part of the M20 scheme). The only issue is the bridge over the River Maigue, which has no room left at the sides and will be a tight squeeze when eventually dualled.

Nonetheless, the Rathkeale-Foynes element of this scheme certainly won't be the old 'WS2' type, at a guess it'll most likely be T1 Single Carraigeway or maybe Type 2 dual if they want it to be of expressway standard for TEN-T.

pajoguy · 11-07-2016 11:23pm

spacetweek wrote: »

You're right - clearly visible here.
That's 8 metres each side. If you widened 1.5 more metres, you'd have 9.5, which could easily be divided up: 2.0 hard strip, 3.5 lane, 3.5 lane, 0.5 central barrier. Very easy to upgrade to 4 lanes.

I drive at 110kph on this stretch of road and its not fast enough for most drivers. Its a crazy width of pavement. I hope its motorway standard on m21 and some type of d.c. for the rest. Castleisland bypass standard would be sufficient I think.

marno21 · 11-07-2016 11:32pm

pajoguy wrote: »

I drive at 110kph on this stretch of road and its not fast enough for most drivers. Its a crazy width of pavement. I hope its motorway standard on m21 and some type of d.c. for the rest. Castleisland bypass standard would be sufficient I think.

The plan for the future beyond Rathkeale to the county boundary from the 2010 Abbeyfeale-Adare scheme (will have to go back to the drawing board as part of this scheme is being built by the scheme discussed in this thread) was Type 2 Dual Carriageway (2+2) along this stretch. It remains to be seen whether the wide S2 between Castleisland and Abbeyfeale would be retrofitted to 2+2 to connect the 2+2 at Feale Bridge to the Castleisland BP.

I would hope, and assume, that Adare-Rathkeale will be M. When the N20/N21 split at M20 J5, 3/5 of the traffic goes for the N21 and 2/5 for the N20. The N20 upgrade is planned as M so the N21 one should too. Especially seeing as bypassing Adare will bring a lot of ratrunners off local roads & indeed the N69 onto this new road, further increasing potential traffic volumes.

marno21 · 03-09-2016 3:25am

There's a provisional corridor up on the scheme website: http://www.foyneslimerick.ie/

However it's passworded, anyone local know how to get access?

BelfastVanMan · 04-09-2016 12:10pm

Seems to be working ok, now. :-)

rliston · 04-09-2016 2:56pm

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Seems to be working ok, now. :-)

Still coming up as password protected for me.

spacetweek · 04-09-2016 10:59pm

marno21 wrote: »

The plan for the future beyond Rathkeale to the county boundary from the 2010 Abbeyfeale-Adare scheme (will have to go back to the drawing board as part of this scheme is being built by the scheme discussed in this thread) was Type 2 Dual Carriageway (2+2) along this stretch. It remains to be seen whether the wide S2 between Castleisland and Abbeyfeale would be retrofitted to 2+2 to connect the 2+2 at Feale Bridge to the Castleisland BP.

I would hope, and assume, that Adare-Rathkeale will be M. When the N20/N21 split at M20 J5, 3/5 of the traffic goes for the N21 and 2/5 for the N20. The N20 upgrade is planned as M so the N21 one should too. Especially seeing as bypassing Adare will bring a lot of ratrunners off local roads & indeed the N69 onto this new road, further increasing potential traffic volumes.

This video (at 50:15) confirms that the N21 part will only be D2AP (standard non-motorway DC) and the N69 element will be single carriageway. No motorway parts.

L1011 · 04-09-2016 11:03pm

Clear cache if you're getting password issues

M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

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