M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

dashoonage

Lads....this some big secret isnt it! is there going to be a parade and some dancing clowns or something ?

Treepole

Cookiemunster wrote: »

All will be revealed on Dec 1st.

Or more likely the last day before they leave for their Christmas holidays.

Cookiemunster

Treepole wrote: »

Or more likely the last day before they leave for their Christmas holidays.

Well seeing as the first public display of the preferred route is December 1st I'd say it'll be December 1st. :rolleyes:

quizzical

What colour route is your money on and why?? Would love to hear your opinions??

AugustusMinimus

Are we expecting this to be a 2+2?

spacetweek

Anything apart from purple.

dashoonage

My money is on the study showing a new ferry service from foynes to limerick for HGV's is a more viable option. It will run twice daily and take four trucks. Of course the outcome of this is based upon a new study to see the effects of adding four trucks a day to city centre traffic, and incorporates a no left turn when exiting Limerick port...to ensure the sneaky truckers use the tunnel.

Chris_5339762

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Are we expecting this to be a 2+2?

Motorway, definitely to what is (hopefully) an M21/M69 split. As to whether the N69 will be 'M', who knows.

Treepole

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Motorway, definitely to what is (hopefully) an M21/M69 split. As to whether the N69 will be 'M', who knows.

It won't be a motorway.

Vanquished

The Adare bypass element will be motorway (M21) and that may stretch to Rathkeale depending on the route chosen.

The interchange with a new N69 will be interesting. If it's a freeflow design like a trumpet then according to regulations at least a portion of that will have to be under motorway restrictions also as it would lead inescapably to a motorway.

Of course if they go for something cheaper like a dumbbell or grade separated roundabout then that scenario is avoided.

Irish_rat

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Motorway, definitely to what is (hopefully) an M21/M69 split. As to whether the N69 will be 'M', who knows.

Wow didn't know this would be HQDC grade to the N69 junction. I don't think it needs to be GSJ'd though. A roundabout will suffice.

This should improve the N21 through Limerick a good bit. Travel times from the City to the Kerry border are very poor for the amount of distance driven. Normally takes an hour with traffic at Adare and NCW being the main hindrance

Cookiemunster

Irish_rat wrote: »

Wow didn't know this would be HQDC grade to the N69 junction. I don't think it needs to be GSJ'd though. A roundabout will suffice.

This should improve the N21 through Limerick a good bit. Travel times from the City to the Kerry border are very poor for the amount of distance driven. Normally takes an hour with traffic at Adare and NCW being the main hindrance

No, no, no, no and no. If the money is there then build a proper junction. Roundabouts at the end of dual carriageways lead to tailbacks when traffic is heavy. This road is supposed to get rid of tailbacks.

marno21

Irish_rat wrote: »

Wow didn't know this would be HQDC grade to the N69 junction. I don't think it needs to be GSJ'd though. A roundabout will suffice.

This should improve the N21 through Limerick a good bit. Travel times from the City to the Kerry border are very poor for the amount of distance driven. Normally takes an hour with traffic at Adare and NCW being the main hindrance

An upgrade of the N20, N21, N22 and N23 would completely change the dynamic of the southwest. The travel times on these 4 roads at present (less so the N23) are atrocious.

medoc

Sorry if it's been mentioned before but, assuming the new road is a HQDC/Motorway from the end of the existing N21 dual carriageway to the split of the M(N)21 and N69 how will the "mythic" M20 to Cork join this road assuming it's ever finally built.

quizzical

If it comes down to money and staying on budget, would they go with the Orange Route?? Is that the shortest??

Vanquished

medoc wrote: »

Sorry if it's been mentioned before but, assuming the new road is a HQDC/Motorway from the end of the existing N21 dual carriageway to the split of the M(N)21 and N69 how will the "mythic" M20 to Cork join this road assuming it's ever finally built.

Via an interchange just to the south west of the existing Attyflin junction (M20 J5) which would be closed.

YeaYeaSure

Will be interesting to see which route is used. The SFPC are in favour of the most direct route (red) and are backed by EU(who are funding the project), it will be up to the NRA to convince them to spend some more cash and add in the Adare bypass.

marno21

YeaYeaSure wrote: »

Will be interesting to see which route is used. The SFPC are in favour of the most direct route (red) and are backed by EU(who are funding the project), it will be up to the NRA to convince them to spend some more cash and add in the Adare bypass.

If all that comes of this scheme is a direct motorway beside the N69 to Foynes then I give up hope of any sort of decent road network in Ireland.

YeaYeaSure

marno21 wrote: »

If all that comes of this scheme is a direct motorway beside the N69 to Foynes then I give up hope of any sort of decent road network in Ireland.

It won't be a motorway if that happens.

Treepole

The Government included the Adare by pass as part of it's Captial Programme annoucement a couple of months ago. They also announced the N69 upgrade as a separate project. You can look at that two ways, one that they will be independent projects, or that they are trying to be a bit clever as they have the inside track and know that the route to be chosen will incorporate the Adare bypass so in essence they kill two birds with one stone.

YeaYeaSure

Treepole wrote: »

The Government included the Adare by pass as part of it's Captial Programme annoucement a couple of months ago. They also announced the N69 upgrade as a separate project. You can look at that two ways, one that they will be independent projects, or that they are trying to be a bit clever as they have the inside track and know that the route to be chosen will incorporate the Adare bypass so in essence they kill two birds with one stone.

Yea had noticed that all right. I'd find it hard to believe they would be two separate projects.

marno21

YeaYeaSure wrote: »

It won't be a motorway if that happens.

Whilst I'm not sure if it applies here, the stipulation for the upgrade of the N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy road was that it was a controlled access road (not sure of the exact term used), the only road type of which in Ireland is motorway. If the same restriction applies here, the N69 element of this, beit from the Adare bypass or direct from the N18, would have to be motorway.

marno21

Treepole wrote: »

The Government included the Adare by pass as part of it's Captial Programme annoucement a couple of months ago. They also announced the N69 upgrade as a separate project. You can look at that two ways, one that they will be independent projects, or that they are trying to be a bit clever as they have the inside track and know that the route to be chosen will incorporate the Adare bypass so in essence they kill two birds with one stone.

That capital investment plan was very sneaky. EU funded projects (N28/N69), PPP's that were announced as part of a roads package in 2009 (N25, N6, N11, N17/N18), minature secondary schemes (N56) or schemes that were started already (N56).

No major groundbreaking schemes (M20, N21, N24, N40 etc)

Treepole

marno21 wrote: »

Whilst I'm not sure if it applies here, the stipulation for the upgrade of the N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy road was that it was a controlled access road (not sure of the exact term used), the only road type of which in Ireland is motorway. If the same restriction applies here, the N69 element of this, beit from the Adare bypass or direct from the N18, would have to be motorway.

At a meeting I attended the view was that if the spur from Adare was chosen that it would be a "high quality single lane" road with very few access points between Adare and Foynes. I don't know anything about roads so I don't know if a single lane road would meet the EU requirements for Foynes.

Chris_5339762

At least part of the N28 is planned (we know) to be non-motorway. Just the end bit. So by that logic a fair whack of this scheme will be motorway, but I don't think an M69 will lead directly into the port, say.

quizzical

Could it be the blue route then?

Treepole

Following from a discussion in the Limerick forum.

The council captial budget announcement includes the following:

- €6.3m on N69 Foynes to Limerick road


But no mention of an Adare bypass. Could be another pointer towards the preferred route being the Red one.

dashoonage

Treepole wrote: »

Following from a discussion in the Limerick forum.

The council captial budget announcement includes the following:

- €6.3m on N69 Foynes to Limerick road


But no mention of an Adare bypass. Could be another pointer towards the preferred route being the Red one.

Thats just to replace the wild Atlantic way signs and to paint the ferrybridge again.

spacetweek

dashoonage wrote: »

Thats just to replace the wild Atlantic way signs and to paint the ferrybridge again.

Agreed - that just sounds like maintenance of the existing, soon to be downgraded N69.

Treepole

Any leaks on this?
Would be very surprised if it made it as far as next Tuesday without news on the preferred route slipping out.