Jamal Khashoggi killed in Saudi embassy.

ressem · 20-10-2018 2:48pm

markodaly wrote: »

Your quite an angry person.

I guess in the next post you will start giving out about neo-liberal capitalism... yet deny that we have a free market economy in the EU... Hmmm, I guess the world is too complicated for you.

No, he's being pedantically correct. Europe, Ireland, Sweden have lightly regulated market capitalism. As in "These are the minimum standards, pass them and you are allowed to attempt to sell them, at a price that you choose."

Free-market capitalism is supposed to be capitalism with zero regulations and zero government oversight / restriction, presumably zero tax unless that's a direct payment for a service used such as a bridge toll.

So when politicians say that a country is a free market, looking at the dictionary definition they are incorrect. The EU can be a low-regulation market for some areas of business though.

goat2 · 20-10-2018 3:00pm

According to latest news ,
Trump believes that he died in a fist fight.
He had been visiting the embassy to collect papers to end his existing marriage and to get married to the lady that waited outside for him.
She waited about 10 hours for him to come out of Consulate, and then got worried.

feargale · 20-10-2018 4:34pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Sickening the way Trump is trying to downplay it, I would have expected him to at least have the courage to call it out.

Ah no. Donald is letting the Saudis carry out their investigation, unlike J. Edgar Hoover who made the mistake of not letting Al Capone carry out an investigation of the Valentine's Day massacre.

The oil will continue to flow. Praise the Lord.

wexie · 20-10-2018 4:49pm

ressem wrote: »

Should the embassy on Fitzwilliam Sq / backing on to Lad Lane have government managed cameras installed to record the entrances and exits, to discourage similar treatment being inflicted to visitors or staff at that embassy?

I'm sure the Irish government and senior officials (regardless of political party membership, can't see any opposition being different) prefer the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" state of deniability.

Not 24/7 monitored, but a record kept?
Will probably result in a reciprocal action, but that's likely already present in Riyadh.

I wouldn't see any harm in that to be honest, if diplomats are doing what they're supposed to be doing then they shouldn't either.

Infini · 20-10-2018 8:51pm

My guess is that some Saudi's thought they could get away with it since the embassy was in Turkey but definately underestimated both the reaction or that they could just get away with it like that. It's obvious nothing severe will happen to Saudi Arabia it's able to leverage its Oil supply to strongarm other countries to some degree but let's not underestimate the reaction either. Killing someone in an embassy DOES still draw alot of uncomfortable attention on the Royal Family expecially since the Crown Prince is trying to show a "progressive face" to the world and something like this can severely dent that image he's trying to show.

Most likely some underling(s) will be thrown under the bus to save face but there's no doubt something like this is most certainly not something they can afford to let happen again. Not only was it ridiculously sloppy to do something like this but the negative attention is something that they don't want a repeat of since doing something so stupid a 2nd time would likely have much more significant consequences.

wexie · 23-10-2018 2:34pm

From YLYL

:pac:

copeyhagen · 23-10-2018 2:36pm

crazy pictures doing the rounds on watsapp of body parts etc.

real or fake?!

wexie · 23-10-2018 2:41pm

copeyhagen wrote: »

crazy pictures doing the rounds on watsapp of body parts etc.

real or fake?!

Dunno, haven't seen any of them (nor would I want to) but I think that if a body (or parts thereof) was found it'd have been all over the media

(so fake most likely)

goat2 · 23-10-2018 9:06pm

feargale wrote: »

Ah no. Donald is letting the Saudis carry out their investigation, unlike J. Edgar Hoover who made the mistake of not letting Al Capone carry out an investigation of the Valentine's Day massacre.

The oil will continue to flow. Praise the Lord.

Every time the Donald speak of the murder, he always have to throw in the line
We are making over a billion dollars, cannot rock the boat

AudreyHepburn · 23-10-2018 9:27pm

Sky News reporting his remains have been found and their condition suggests the rumors about what was done to him are sadly true.

They also say he was found in the garden of a house belonging to the Saudi Consul General in Istanbul.

Just when you think these people can’t get any worse.

A truly horrific end and one that deserves the strongest possible punishment.

RIP Jamal Khashoggi

Ipso · 23-10-2018 9:34pm

feargale wrote: »

Ah no. Donald is letting the Saudis carry out their investigation, unlike J. Edgar Hoover who made the mistake of not letting Al Capone carry out an investigation of the Valentine's Day massacre.

The oil will continue to flow. Praise the Lord.

Iranian sanctions are supposed to kick in soo, which gives the Saudis the upper hand. Not that we would have expected much against them anyway, from anyone.

alaimacerc · 23-10-2018 11:34pm

goat2 wrote: »

Every time the Donald speak of the murder, he always have to throw in the line
We are making over a billion dollars, cannot rock the boat

If they're guilty, they'll be severely punished!

... but we'll let them decide if they're actually guilty. And even if so, let them decide the "punishment".

alaimacerc · 23-10-2018 11:59pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Stone the odd woman to death too but sure no harm, eh?

They're both pretty enthusiastic users of the death penalty. In Iran's case, that's in significant part due to them going a bit Daily Mail/South American Death Squad on drug trafficking, which is a significant issue in that region.

In SA, the total rate's not as high, but the list of capital offences is... colourful. Death sentences for witchcraft have been carried out in recent years.

Gatling · 24-10-2018 12:20am

goat2 wrote: »

Trump has just said , they did a bad job covering it up,

Is he saying that, it is a pity they got caught, body found

That's exactly what he's saying .

Should have done a Putin poisoned him and blamed a conspiracy against Saudi and saudiphobia.

It's worked for Putin numerous times but no they went full retard and ended up where they are now ,

Not that much will actually change unfortunately

alaimacerc · 24-10-2018 12:22am

goat2 wrote: »

Trump has just said , they did a bad job covering it up,

Is he saying that, it is a pity they got caught, body found

Very annoying when he's busy trying to avoid losing in the midterms by appealing to xenophobic panic about a few Central American refugees. (Paid by Soros! Or something.)

Tricky to reconcile the narratives. On the one hand running on a ticket of naked xenophobia, with "middle-east guys" as the ultimate hate-figure. On the other... have to keep curtsying to the Saudis, getting big tacky gold medals, selling them billions of arms, and going to war with any given Muslim country except the one where 95% of the 9/11 conspirators came from.

You bet he's wishing they'd managed a better cover-up.

Hande hoche! · 24-10-2018 6:13pm

The Germans seem to be blocking future arms deals. The US as mentioned and the Canadians are still flogging billions worth of weapons.

Gatling · 24-10-2018 7:06pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

The Germans seem to be blocking future arms deals. The US as mentioned and the Canadians are still flogging billions worth of weapons.

Germany will put off a sale until this dies down , even if the US and EU states completely stop all sales to Saudi others will just step in and gladly continue business with them,
If anything sales of weapons could be used to keep the Saudis in line using caveats for future transactions and support

Franz Von Peppercorn · 24-10-2018 7:08pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

Very annoying when he's busy trying to avoid losing in the midterms by appealing to xenophobic panic about a few Central American refugees. (Paid by Soros! Or something.)

Tricky to reconcile the narratives. On the one hand running on a ticket of naked xenophobia, with "middle-east guys" as the ultimate hate-figure. On the other... have to keep curtsying to the Saudis, getting big tacky gold medals, selling them billions of arms, and going to war with any given Muslim country except the one where 95% of the 9/11 conspirators came from.

You bet he's wishing they'd managed a better cover-up.

You know that trump inherited most of those wars right?

The only reason Yemen is getting the minuscule coverage it is now getting is because of this killing. Expect it to die down soon.

Ipso · 24-10-2018 7:58pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You know that trump inherited most of those wars right?

The only reason Yemen is getting the minuscule coverage it is now getting is because of this killing. Expect it to die down soon.

He inherited it and escalated it, and publically said he doesn't want to lose arms sales to the Saudis that they then use in this war.
So more of the same and then some.

As mentioned above, there is some serious mental gymnastics going on with the Saudis, his muslim ban didn't include the Saudis which is where the 911 hijackers were from.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 24-10-2018 8:14pm

Ipso wrote: »

He inherited it and escalated it, and publically said he doesn't want to lose arms sales to the Saudis that they then use in this war.
So more of the same and then some.

As mentioned above, there is some serious mental gymnastics going on with the Saudis, his muslim ban didn't include the Saudis which is where the 911 hijackers were from.

And Bush allowed the bin laden’s to leave the US. Obama escalated the Yemen war by starting it.

Obama embraced the US drone programme, overseeing more strikes in his first year than Bush carried out during his entire presidency. A total of 563 strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms, compared to 57 strikes under Bush. Between 384 and 807 civilians were killed in those countries, according to reports logged by the Bureau.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush

The problem is America.

alaimacerc · 24-10-2018 8:50pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

And Bush allowed the bin laden’s to leave the US. Obama escalated the Yemen war by starting it.

Obama embraced the US drone programme, overseeing more strikes in his first year than Bush carried out during his entire presidency. A total of 563 strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms, compared to 57 strikes under Bush. Between 384 and 807 civilians were killed in those countries, according to reports logged by the Bureau.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush

The problem is America.

The problems with America aren't hard to find, but you're kinda conflating all things Yemeni there. There's the airstrikes against AQAP, and there's the civil war, which is predominantly a North/South, Houthi/Hadi, Shi'a/Sunni thing.

alaimacerc · 24-10-2018 8:54pm

Ipso wrote: »

As mentioned above, there is some serious mental gymnastics going on with the Saudis, his muslim ban didn't include the Saudis which is where the 911 hijackers were from.

To say "mental gymnastics" is to to credit him with a little too much cerebral agility. Do the thing he wanted to do, yesbutnobut extensively, then say "look! over there! an islamist immigrant Hispanic squirrel!" is about the level of it.

alaimacerc · 24-10-2018 9:16pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You know that trump inherited most of those wars right?

I speak of the future wars of John Bolton's fevered rhetoric and over-excitable imagination.

Of the main two he's "inherited" -- after much back-seat driving during the Obama presidency utterly in contradiction to his current actions -- one might see as being legitimately connected to 9/11, the other is more of a matter of the Bush family drama.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 24-10-2018 9:39pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

The problems with America aren't hard to find, but you're kinda conflating all things Yemeni there. There's the airstrikes against AQAP, and there's the civil war, which is predominantly a North/South, Houthi/Hadi, Shi'a/Sunni thing.

How could I have conflated any of that? I mentioned merely the drone warfare in response to someone who said that trump escalated the drone attacks. If you think this administration is using drones in a different manner and with different targets to Obama’s admin then I’m all ears.

I made no reference to whom or what was targeted. American is definitely refuelling Saudi planes, and the statistics on where or what the drones are attacking is limited. Lots of civilians for sure.

And of course, in theory anyhow, the US can tell them to stop.

BattleCorp · 24-10-2018 9:42pm

I'm not sure if the pics are real but a mate sent me pics of body pieces that are supposed to be Khashoggi. The face was cut away from the skull. Fistfight me hole. x

Franz Von Peppercorn · 24-10-2018 9:44pm

alaimacerc wrote: »

I speak of the future wars of John Bolton's fevered rhetoric and over-excitable imagination.

Of the main two he's "inherited" -- after much back-seat driving during the Obama presidency utterly in contradiction to his current actions -- one might see as being legitimately connected to 9/11, the other is more of a matter of the Bush family drama.

Christ that’s some apologetics. You guys seem to
think that America veers from being a perfect nation run by angels, to a crazed despotism run by devils. In reality the president doesn’t largely matter. It’s a militaristic oligarchy.

Bolton is a loon for sure and trump is marginally worse than Obama. Maybe. Hillary would be another warlord. No pacifist has a chance.

Ash.J.Williams · 24-10-2018 9:53pm

goat2 wrote: »

According to latest news ,
Trump believes that he died in a fist fight.
He had been visiting the embassy to collect papers to end his existing marriage and to get married to the lady that waited outside for him.
She waited about 10 hours for him to come out of Consulate, and then got worried.

a good wife

goat2 · 25-10-2018 12:53am

JohnMc1 wrote: »

We should leave the Middle east to their own devices and let nature take its course.

I am inclined to agree with you, after watching the news with past few days, it is one new story after another, all differing in their stories.
The only ones that know the truth are the people that did it,

wexie · 31-10-2018 11:01am

wexie wrote: »

But whereas if he had been 'some Turkish reporter*' it would have taken a few days to get over the 'outrage' I think now it might actually take a few weeks.

See? All forgotten, back to business

Odhinn · 31-10-2018 12:53pm

wexie wrote: »

See? All forgotten, back to business

I doubt theres going to be any great consequences over this for the US Saudi relationship. Except maybe a private bit of advice to be more discrete in the future.

Dinarius · 31-10-2018 1:01pm

I think that it will just fade away.

We are in a post-accountability, post-due-process age.

Maybe not in my lifetime (I'm 58), but I suspect that for a third time in 100 years, Ireland will be glad it's an isolated island off the west coast of Europe.

USA is going to the dogs (civil war anyone? I could see it happening.)

China is the new king on the block and utterly devoid of conscience and accountability.

Almost the whole of South America is screwed - Venezuela should be the new Norway with its having the largest oil reserves on the planet. Yet, 6000 people are leaving daily. Why?

North Africa is also screwed.

The rich folk from the northern hemisphere buying up properties in New Zealand may be using them sooner than they think.

Happy days.

D.

Ps. And closer to home, ask yourselves this; given the TOTAL lack of accountability regarding the Gardai after industrial scale fake blood tests and speeding fines. What would happen if a Khasoggi-type incident were to happen here? If someone were to die in custody? I'm guessing most would say, "Oh, a death would be total different to a shed load of parking-fines. Of course the guilty would be held to account." Yes, I'd like to think that too. But, would they? And who would hold them to account?

irishproduce · 26-02-2021 11:55pm

This is back in the news today. US released I formation that they know it was the Saudi Prince who ordered it.
Did it ever come out how they moved out his body without detection?

Yurt2 · 27-02-2021 12:55am

Reports that the US and the State Department are considering canceling arms deals with Saudi. Pretty extraordinary that they're even talking that way, although such deals are so lucrative you'd wonder would they ever do it.

If they did, it would put serious pressure on the Al-Yamamah arms deal with the UK. If anyone hasn't read into it, it's worth doing so. Ridiculously huge decades-long arms and military aerospace deal that has been the source of fairly open corruption in both countries, and is the reason the British don't say boo anything Saudi does.

feargale · 27-02-2021 1:16am

irishproduce wrote: »

This is back in the news today. US released I formation that they know it was the Saudi Prince who ordered it.
Did it ever come out how they moved out his body without detection?

Didn't they dissolve his body in acid?

Hangdogroad · 27-02-2021 11:46am

feargale wrote: »

Didn't they dissolve his body in acid?

He was dismembered with a bone saw in the embassy. Audio of the whole thing was recorded by the Turks who had the place bugged.

Montage of Feck · 27-02-2021 1:23pm

The Turks are taking a far more active role in world affairs, having a third nation now vying for supremacy over the Islamic world cant be good for stability.

Zebra3 · 27-02-2021 2:50pm

Amazing to see Biden get all jumpy over this on the day he himself broke international law by murdering twenty-two people.

Imagine journalists actually did their job and called this sort of hypocrisy out. Might put pressure on for a prosecution.

Pawwed Rig · 27-02-2021 3:57pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The Turks are taking a far more active role in world affairs, having a third nation now vying for supremacy over the Islamic world cant be good for stability.

Anyone is better than Saudi Arabia imo. They are one of the worst regimes in the world and oil is the only reason they were not all lined up against a wall years ago.

Dinarius · 28-02-2021 4:48pm

As one of her first acts as prime minister, Theresa May went to SA to help secure an arms deal for BAE Systems.

Theresa May’s husband’s investment firm is a major shareholder in BAE.

The slaughter in Yemen would not be possible without British and US.

Arms can be stored, but not forever. And, if you’re not using them, you have no reason to buy more. So, outside of the odd test explosion, if you’re not committing genocide, you’re wasting money. Just ask MSL.

D.

MadYaker · 28-02-2021 4:49pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Amazing to see Biden get all jumpy over this on the day he himself broke international law by murdering twenty-two people.

Imagine journalists actually did their job and called this sort of hypocrisy out. Might put pressure on for a prosecution.

Which 22 people did Biden personally murder? Can't say I heard about that on the news.

Zebra3 · 28-02-2021 11:24pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Which 22 people did Biden personally murder? Can't say I heard about that on the news.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-strike-biden-us-death-toll-b1808097.html

goat2 · 10-03-2021 11:04pm

irishproduce wrote: »

This is back in the news today. US released I formation that they know it was the Saudi Prince who ordered it.
Did it ever come out how they moved out his body without detection?

One of the planes got out of airport without being inspected, and when those guys flew in for a few hours, it seemed funny that their suitcases were very big for a few hours stay, not even an overnight stay, and there is the news, they had a large scale pitas oven, grill, barbecue thing that could reach thousands of degrees heat that would burn anything to ashes in minuet's, take your pick

irishproduce · 11-03-2021 12:24am

goat2 wrote: »

One of the planes got out of airport without being inspected, and when those guys flew in for a few hours, it seemed funny that their suitcases were very big for a few hours stay, not even an overnight stay, and there is the news, they had a large scale pitas oven, grill, barbecue thing that could reach thousands of degrees heat that would burn anything to ashes in minuet's, take your pick

You making that second one up? Genuine question.

Ash.J.Williams · 11-03-2021 8:55am

Fact , also they ordered a tonne of meat and cooked it all in the under floor tandoori so there was no trace left after wards

The_Dave · 11-03-2021 3:34pm

goat2 wrote: »

One of the planes got out of airport without being inspected, and when those guys flew in for a few hours, it seemed funny that their suitcases were very big for a few hours stay, not even an overnight stay, and there is the news, they had a large scale pitas oven, grill, barbecue thing that could reach thousands of degrees heat that would burn anything to ashes in minuet's, take your pick

Did they not leave on a Saudi jet i.e. government property so they could not be searched unless the Saudis agreed to it?

smurfjed · 11-03-2021 4:57pm

government property so they could not be searched unless the Saudis agreed to it?

Nope, commercially chartered aircraft.

The_Dave · 12-03-2021 9:34am

smurfjed wrote: »

Nope, commercially chartered aircraft.

Crikey:eek:

Ash.J.Williams · 12-03-2021 9:39am

in the documentary "dissident" they juxtapose all the horror of the murder with trump playing it down and talking up the saudis, he comes across as very stupid considering the CIA were taking it seriously

silverharp · 12-03-2021 9:43am

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

in the documentary "dissident" they juxtapose all the horror of the murder with trump playing it down and talking up the saudis, he comes across as very stupid considering the CIA were taking it seriously

Biden is following Trump's approach on it.

goat2 · 21-03-2021 8:15pm

irishproduce wrote: »

You making that second one up? Genuine question.

The second one is not a make up, one of the news channels carried that story when his body could not be found, and they were coming up with plausible explanation for the fire pit and plane were the two best, they had been searching wooded area, but nothing there

Jamal Khashoggi killed in Saudi embassy.

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