Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

11011131516200

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Just a reminder, in the last thread we banned the use of initials of people being discussed. I'd like to enforce that here also as it's headwrecking to try read and figure out.

    And as usual, no speculation please.

    I'm also updating the thread title.

    The most recent and first time in ages it was done was probably my fault. I used them and removed them, but not before i was already quoted here.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106003546&postcount=569
    9/10 times the people are mentioned in the linked article anyway. In this case both are mentioned here, the Father and the Uncle.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-confessed-to-murders-court-told-1.503431

    Also mentioned in this article
    https://www.herald.ie/news/prison-killing-witness-caged-23-hours-a-day-27952534.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    BillyBobBS wrote: »
    :D Word on the street. Yo yo home boy.

    I laugh out loud at the names these fools attach to themselves, The Monk, Mad Mickey etc... What a bunch of losers.

    why be here if you dont the thread? i could give people who wanted details here, only because of the names you mentioned without using initials :)
    Runner Registration Number: N/A
    Runner Make: NIKE
    Runner Model: Air Max

    Change Of Vehicle Ownership
    Sold by Champion Sports in the last 3 months

    Runners Registration Certificate
    No Runner Registration Certificate issued in the last: 3 months

    Found them burnt out in Fairview Park I heard, witnesses said there were a pair of Adidas left there unattended for the past week, but they're gone now. They couldn't identify the model. :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

    why would you quote me, i know you love my posts, it's ok, you should contact the guards if you have specific info:)
    baylah17 wrote: »
    Way to go!
    Word on the street is that is best post on the thread:D

    no way, that post wasnt even original. other posters have contributed the best to this thread (not me) so if ye dont like the thread, stay the fcuk out, have a nice day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    would anyone care to guess what is meant by

    "A new approach to confronting these thugs is needed"




    maybe what they did to the scum that thought they could do what they wanted down in limerick.

    nope Limerick is worse now than ever before, this in dublin has taken away resources need in other parts of the country.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Just a reminder, in the last thread we banned the use of initials of people being discussed. I'd like to enforce that here also as it's headwrecking to try read and figure out.

    And as usual, no speculation please.

    I'm also updating the thread title.

    I don’t mind the list of initials this time round. As the list of possible suspects has dwindled, it’s been a lot easier to work out by who’s left ;)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    why be here if you dont the thread? i could give people who wanted details here, only because of the names you mentioned without using initials :)



    why would you quote me, i know you love my posts, it's ok, you should contact the guards if you have specific info:)



    no way, that post wasnt even original. other posters have contributed the best to this thread (not me) so if ye dont like the thread, stay the fcuk out, have a nice day.

    Ah jeez, don’t go and get urself banned! No fun without your posts


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    +1 calm down deputy, it ain't personal


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious



    nope Limerick is worse now than ever before, this in dublin has taken away resources need in other parts of the country.

    Manpower is what it comes down to. I doubt it's a coincidence that shootings have increased alongside a clamp down on overtime.

    This comes along side Garda managements failure to civilianise areas of the force that don't require Garda members.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,814 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Is is nearly impossible for the Garda to stop this
    For instance people post here straight away when they see the ERU check pionts, so if the good law abiding people of boards know where they are you can be sure the criminals who have a lot to lose do, do ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭Mucky_Tackies



    nope Limerick is worse now than ever before, this in dublin has taken away resources need in other parts of the country.

    Thats bollocks. Limk is nowhere near as bad as the height of the Dundon days. Not sure how you could possibly say now is worse than then?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE



    Thats bollocks. Limk is nowhere near as bad as the height of the Dundon days. Not sure how you could possibly say now is worse than then?

    not for feud related killing alright, but gangs in limerick have become more intelligent, due to the dum dums down fall, which was of there own making, killing people because a person refused entry to an underage person.

    its all about making money, without getting heat from gardai.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Would the fact the perpetrator fled on foot suggest he may have had a safe house nearby to hold up in?

    that thought occurred to me, because of where people came from when Gareth was murdered or when martin o rourke was killed.

    edit forget the above.


    Stephen Breen

    @SteBreen
    BREAKING - Suspected getaway van used by killers of Jason Molyneux recovered by Gardai. Renault van found partially burnt out close to toll bridge on Eastlink.

    was it white? to fit in with the usual MO, used by kinahans


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    that thought occurred to me, because of where people came from when Gareth was murdered or when martin o rourke was killed.

    edit forget the above.


    Stephen Breen

    @SteBreen
    BREAKING - Suspected getaway van used by killers of Jason Molyneux recovered by Gardai. Renault van found partially burnt out close to toll bridge on Eastlink.

    was it white? to fit in with the usual MO, used by kinahans

    Blue, but the only paper reporting it is that rag, and they have got everything else wrong so far. They seem to make it up, join the dots and hope it fits together later on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,814 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    So what can the government do about this ?
    The victim had what over 100 convictions is there any other first world country in the world that he would be out on the streets ?
    The judges need to start throwing the book at any drug related crimes, even throw the book at anyone caught with class A drugs on them , name and shame them whatever it takes to make them not go back for more,
    I'm sure the demand would die down if all the middle class people who use these drugs that cause these feuds where made examples off,
    There needs to be something done


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Suckit wrote: »
    Blue, but the only paper reporting it is that rag, and they have got everything else wrong so far. They seem to make it up, join the dots and hope it fits together later on.

    blue, thanks, any know the year?

    on the sun, i dont read it, only articles from the above person, because he has very good knowledge of all this.

    from the same person, follow names, not rags :/



    SECRET VISIT Derek Coakley Hutch’s brother Nathan brought in secret from prison to see body briefly at funeral home as Gardai set to mount huge security operation for funeral
    The five-minute visit was arranged by gardai after his distraught mum Noeleen and family refused to hold the funeral unless Nathan received the chance to pay his respects


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    why be here if you dont the thread? i could give people who wanted details here, only because of the names you mentioned without using initials :)



    why would you quote me, i know you love my posts, it's ok, you should contact the guards if you have specific info:)



    no way, that post wasnt even original. other posters have contributed the best to this thread (not me) so if ye dont like the thread, stay the fcuk out, have a nice day.

    Don’t get banned sheriff some of us are hanging in your every word!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    So what can the government do about this ?
    The victim had what over 100 convictions is there any other first world country in the world that he would be out on the streets ?
    The judges need to start throwing the book at any drug related crimes, even throw the book at anyone caught with class A drugs on them , name and shame them whatever it takes to make them not go back for more,
    I'm sure the demand would die down if all the middle class people who use these drugs that cause these feuds where made examples off,
    There needs to be something done

    prison is college to these guys, its how they network and learn there trade. they love there holidays to prison.

    illegal drugs will always be in demand, look at legal pharmaceutical, theyre been abused all the time, and theyre worse than the legal one(for chemical strength)but thats ok, the government makes millions if not billions threw them.

    education, part legislation or tolerance of "softer" drugs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    The fact that it turned out to be another slain scumbag doesn't mitigate my reaction and I'm not liking myself much this morning :(

    You have nothing to feel bad about.. It's a completely natural instinct to move away from danger.

    I once ran out of a shop in the middle of a robbery. I literally pegged it past one of the men who was holding a shotgun..

    I ran straight out the door and kept running :pac:

    It wasn't bravery. It was stupidity. But my instinct took over and said leave now.. My legs kicked in and that was it..

    We are programmed to stay alive and avoid danger..

    Never feel bad about it..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Suckit wrote: »
    Blue, but the only paper reporting it is that rag, and they have got everything else wrong so far. They seem to make it up, join the dots and hope it fits together later on.

    Gardai are anxious to speak to anyone who may have seen a white Renault Kangoo van registration No: 10 D 126064 in the last few days or in particular any sightings of this van between 9.45pm last night and 12.15am this morning.
    (By Brynmor Pattison Niall O'Connor the irish mirror)
    ill be back in a minute :)

    Your vehicle information
    Reg: 10D126064
    Vehicle: 2010 Renault Kangoo ML19 85 DCI 5DR
    Colour: White


    Vehicle Registration Number: 10D126064
    Vehicle Details: RENAULT / KANGOO
    Change Of Vehicle Ownership

    No Changes notified in the last 3 months
    Vehicle Registration Certificate

    No Vehicle Registration Certificate issued in the last: 3months


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    So criminals families are holding the guards to ransom, by threatening not to hold a funeral if another criminal is not brought from prison to see (pay respects ;)) !! These cookers are laughing at the system,even when convicted.
    Could they not just wats app a pic to him on his illegal phone.
    Beggars belief if true. No wonder there's no money for garda resources.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Don’t get banned sheriff some of us are hanging in your every word!!

    Can't say I hang on every word but I do enjoy his posts..

    You bring a lot to this thread sheriff.. try to stick around :D


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    look at legal pharmaceutical, theyre been abused all the time, and theyre worse than the legal one(for chemical strength)but thats ok, the government makes millions if not billions threw them.

    I call you out on that, lets see you facts, the research that backs that up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    2010 Renault Kangoo ML19 85 DCI 5DR

    on the above, especially to the people who frequent the motors forum.

    5dr meaning the MPV type (driver, passenger, with 2 rear passenger doors and boot) , ive been looking up the van type, it only has 4 doors (driver, passenger and a double rear door)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    baylah17 wrote: »
    I call you out on that, lets see you facts, the research that backs that up.

    what facts are you looking for specifically?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    baylah17 wrote: »
    I call you out on that, lets see you facts, the research that backs that up.

    If you're denying that we have a massive problem with abuse of both genuine and fake pharmaceuticals in this country you are delusional.

    A very quick google search will give you all the info you need.


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Thesomersarms


    Is it any clearer on what gang committed last nights murder? Would find it near unbelievable that it wasn’t kinahan gang given this man was due to carry the coffin at this mornings funeral and was close friends with hutch family member, i see the ballymun story going around but this clearly seems the far more likely scenario and has all the hallmarks of the kinahans no?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,734 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    2010 Renault Kangoo ML19 85 DCI 5DR

    on the above, especially to the people who frequent the motors forum.

    5dr meaning the MPV type (driver, passenger, with 2 rear passenger doors and boot) , ive been looking up the van type, it only has 4 doors (driver, passenger and a double rear door)

    What's the mileage? Will swap for a 93 Corolla and a bag of seedless grapes.

    :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Is it any clearer on what gang committed last nights murder? Would find it near unbelievable that it wasn’t kinahan gang given this man was due to carry the coffin at this mornings funeral and was close friends with hutch family member, i see the ballymun story going around but this clearly seems the far more likely scenario and has all the hallmarks of the kinahans no?

    im of the thinking it was a kinahan hit, theyve used white van types for duck egg murder and two people where caught in a white van type Berlingo on there way to a hit.

    we'll get there eventually, lets bide our time and keep an open mind.

    any indication of type of handgun yet?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,749 ✭✭✭degsie


    Heard a local woman on the radio earlier saying that the Hutch's "are a lovely family" :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,400 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    im of the thinking it was a kinahan hit, theyve used white van types for duck egg murder and two people where caught in a white van type Berlingo on there way to a hit.

    we'll get there eventually, lets bide our time and keep an open mind.

    any indication of type of handgun yet?

    I might be missing the point in these vehicle posts but are you implying that it's a Kinahan signature to use white vans or black cars for hits?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Collie D wrote: »
    I might be missing the point in these vehicle posts but are you implying that it's a Kinahan signature to use white vans or black cars for hits?
    yes, youve got it in one, they fit in, bmws used in Gareth murder were black 7 series which wouldn't start and a black 5 series to my recollection to name a few, i might check all the cars used in feuds tonight if im bored.

    its the small pieces of info, that make or break cases like these.

    im not saying thats the case now, im just keeping a open mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    What's the mileage? Will swap for a 93 Corolla and a bag of seedless grapes.

    :pac:

    if the Rolla is an xli petrol, we have a deal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,408 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    was it white? to fit in with the usual MO, used by kinahans

    According to RTE it was white.
    Gardaí at Store Street are also appealing for information on a white Renault van (10 D 126064).

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    According to RTE it was white.

    thank i got that from the mirror a page or two back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    thank i got that from the mirror a page or two back.

    When i saw it was blue, it mustn't have been the actual photo. I saw it on a twitter account, as the only other source was the Sun at the time.

    RTE saying he was lured there.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2018/0131/937220-shooting-molyneaux-dublin/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Reading a lot of the comments on here I think it's fair to say that these events have brutalised a whole swathe of people.
    i accept some guys like to come across as macho and tough but people are losing their lives and we are losing our humanity.
    we might think we are above these events or that we are untouchable, but those are foolish assumptions.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Suckit wrote: »
    When i saw it was blue, it mustn't have been the actual photo. I saw it on a twitter account, as the only other source was the Sun at the time.

    RTE saying he was lured there.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2018/0131/937220-shooting-molyneaux-dublin/

    i dont ever use RTE as a source, i follow(without following :( ) names of people in the know. RTE never or rarely give any details on anything, thats what we get for a our tv license fee.

    even in the rte link it says a van, a van doesn't have 5 doors, im of the thinking its a van base MPV

    ive been looking at pictures of the van type and MPV type, definitely seems MPV type, i can be corrected on that.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    degsie wrote: »
    Heard a local woman on the radio earlier saying that the Hutch's "are a lovely family" :rolleyes:

    Many of them are. There is a whole section of the family holding down good jobs and having no contact with the police.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    It wasn't RTE that said it was blue, it was a photo on twitter, but i can't see whose, as i followed a link that followed a link etc.

    I just posted theRTE thing tat said he was lured to the shooter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    I quoted you directly
    Now I'm asking for facts to back up the claims you made


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    baylah17 wrote: »
    I quoted you directly
    Now I'm asking for facts to back up the claims you made

    ive made loads of claims, which ones are you looking for facts to back up my claims specifically, i can get you pages upon pages, so if youre specific i can just get you them instead of filling this thread with pages of copyed text.

    here is two links ive quick glanced at.

    https://www.export.gov/article?id=Ireland-Drugs-and-Pharmaceuticals

    http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/18948/


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/a-look-into-new-documentary-my-war-on-drugs-825426.html

    My War On Drugs: True Lives airs on TV3 on Wednesday, January 31, at 9pm.

    this program will give people an insight in drug addiction/s.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    So what can the government do about this ?
    The victim had what over 100 convictions is there any other first world country in the world that he would be out on the streets ?
    The judges need to start throwing the book at any drug related crimes, even throw the book at anyone caught with class A drugs on them , name and shame them whatever it takes to make them not go back for more,
    I'm sure the demand would die down if all the middle class people who use these drugs that cause these feuds where made examples off,
    There needs to be something done


    Ultimately it's an issue of the top players being untouchable due to the insulation they have created with laundering systems. As such, extremely intrusive CAB powers is what is required. Almost a carte blanche to investigate and harass on the basis of links to organised crime. Stop the money and you stop the incentive for the criminals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    WTF are the sun doing posting pictures CRISPIN RODWELL - THE SUN DUBLIN of the people carrying Derek's coffin, thats how the kinahans get their information FFS yet block out reg plates.
    the irish independent also has the picture of people carrying derek's coffin.

    where is liam, in Ireland or still in Birmingham?

    where is roe?

    is danial still in dubai?

    where is mcGovern?

    press is totally one sides too, the family is been wiped out.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    WTF are the sun doing posting pictures CRISPIN RODWELL - THE SUN DUBLIN of the people carrying Derek's coffin, thats how the kinahans get their information FFS yet block out reg plates.
    .

    Do you really think that's how the Kinehans get their info? Really?
    They wouldn't be going on other information like the fact they've worked with them for years?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Are you seriously saying that the Kinahins are getting their info from the Sun.?:(
    I don't know a lot about them but I'd say they are a little better organised than that.
    As for taking pics of who is or isn't carrying the coffin,that's their prerogative to take all the pics they want,you don't have to like or agree with it but hey ho!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Was listening to some councillor from the area on a few stations today and he was at pains to reiterate that it wasn't a feud,it is an annihilation. Poor lad is in denial. Yet he kept referring to it as a feud :(


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    Was listening to some councillor from the area on a few stations today and he was at pains to reiterate that it wasn't a feud,it is an annihilation. Poor lad is in denial. Yet he kept referring to it as a feud :(

    Yeah that was Gary Gannon, local social democrat councilor. Funny enough his brother bought the Sunset House after Barr was killed. Think it's called The Brendan Behan now.

    Both brothers are decent sorts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    humberklog wrote: »
    Do you really think that's how the Kinehans get their info? Really?
    They wouldn't be going on other information like the fact they've worked with them for years?

    thats a very vaild point, im not from dublin, i know all names, even the two front guys carrying the coffin and most of the females from independent pictures (from Facebook) but again this family is been wiped out, nothing about where the kinahans are or liam or roe or mcgovern.

    please people under threat lock up yer Facebook account protect your pictures same for Instagram snapchat any soical media accounts.
    Are you seriously saying that the Kinahins are getting their info from the Sun.?:(
    I don't know a lot about them but I'd say they are a little better organised than that.
    As for taking pics of who is or isn't carrying the coffin,that's their prerogative to take all the pics they want,you don't have to like or agree with it but hey ho!

    im serious, i never said they get it all from the press, but still is a vaild, point, if the press are blocking reg plates.

    all HUTCHES are under threat here guys and girls


  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Thesomersarms


    Couple of things that have puzzled me about the ongoing feud, one, I get that the ‘head’ or ‘heads’ are in a foreign haven which prohibits the police from extradition however it appears that other key members are either here or are back and forth to uk for matches etc, how have they not been lifted and held as in the dogs in the street seem to know who’s driving this, a very close relative of a victim being one, I know evidence is required however are there are no emergency powers the police can use to lift someone if the guards are satisfied that they are involved, such as what happened with ira in days gone by?

    The Second thing that really puzzles me is how with all the scrutiny from gardai on kinahan gang members are the orders with intel on victims still getting through to hitmen to carry out murders and presumably pick up a cash fee, not to go all wire on this but are they using some sort of code to pass the information onto would be hitmen? Hitmen which seem to be in good supply for them. Or is it a case that an open contract was put out since regency on members of one family for anyone willing to take up the contract and act on their own initiative?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭the sheriff is HERE


    Couple of things that have puzzled me about the ongoing feud, one, I get that the ‘head’ or ‘heads’ are in a foreign haven which prohibits the police from extradition however it appears that other key members are either here or are back and forth to uk for matches etc, how have they not been lifted and held as in the dogs in the street seem to know who’s driving this, a very close relative of a victim being one, I know evidence is required however are there are no emergency powers the police can use to lift someone if the guards are satisfied that they are involved, such as what happened with ira in days gone by?

    a female too is hell bent on revenge , i was wondering that myself, how can they be so flash with watches cars but theyre connected to legit business people too, they're using disposable people (to them) who owes them debts.
    The Second thing that really puzzles me is how with all the scrutiny from gardai on kinahan gang members are the orders with intel on victims still getting through to hitmen to carry out murders and presumably pick up a cash fee, not to go all wire on this but are they using some sort of code to pass the information onto would be hitmen? Hitmen which seem to be in good supply for them. Or is it a case that an open contract was put out since regency on members of one family for anyone willing to take up the contract and act on their own initiative?

    they are using encryption and a personal closed server either in Holland, Canada or Spain. a female was caught coming into dublin Airport with a load of encrypted phone, and the customs and guards had to give them back to her knowing who she was bringing them in for, their money and debts owed to them theyre making vulnerable people do their dirty work.

    i broke up your post to try answer your intriguing questions.


  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement