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Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

  • 07-02-2019 12:20am
    #1
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Continued from here. All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

    MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the 6N window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.


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Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland Team Talk Thread X: Jesus that England game was a massive pile of s**te.


  • #3
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    From the old thread

    Can we just step back from VDF for a minute and ask what does he bring besides tackling?

    Is SOB a better...

    Carrier? Yes

    Poacher? Yes

    Link man? Yes

    I must stress I do like VDF but I feel he gets over hyped on here when people see tackling stats. We need an international 7 to do more than tackle. I think its the reason why a fully fit SOB and even Leavy will start above him every time

    I think it's the opposite tbh. I think because his work rate is so good in defence, it's all people associate with him. He's a very good poacher and linkman. Definitely not an explosive carrier but not many 7s are.

    Comparing him to SOB isn't fair because SOB is one of the best players we've ever had in any position. He's a freak. VDF is better than Leavy and has been preferred to him almost all the way along.

    I don't think VDF is hard done by btw. He's always going to lose out to SOB, that's just pro sport. I'd rather see our best players in their best positions rather than shoehorning SOB into 8.


  • #4
    P.Walnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Former Former wrote: »
    From the old thread




    I think it's the opposite tbh. I think because his work rate is so good in defence, it's all people associate with him. He's a very good poacher and linkman. Definitely not an explosive carrier but not many 7s are.

    Comparing him to SOB isn't fair because SOB is one of the best players we've ever had in any position. VDF is better than Leavy and has been preferred to him almost all the way along.

    I don't think VDF is hard done by. He's always going to lose out to SOB, that's just pro sport.

    I normally agree with pretty much everything you post....but here we have some differences

    For a start against the AB's at home Leavy was selected ahead of VDF at 7, and then cried off on the Friday. But in the biggest game of the season it was a clear indication on who Joe rates higher.

    I guess it's hard to judge it completely tbf as they both have had checkered injury records so there isn't a large ample size available of them being both fit.

    Another point I don't agree in is that he is a good poacher. That simply isn't true, he may slow down ball, but he does not jackal like SOB and Leavy. He gets blown out of the breakdown more often than not.

    Again I stress, I do appreciate what he brings to the table, and when POM is poaching and Stander carrying then we get away with it, but when they don't our backrow quickly becomes very underpowered and well.....average.


  • #5
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Former Former wrote: »
    From the old thread




    I think it's the opposite tbh. I think because his work rate is so good in defence, it's all people associate with him. He's a very good poacher and linkman. Definitely not an explosive carrier but not many 7s are.

    Comparing him to SOB isn't fair because SOB is one of the best players we've ever had in any position. He's a freak. VDF is better than Leavy and has been preferred to him almost all the way along.

    I don't think VDF is hard done by btw. He's always going to lose out to SOB, that's just pro sport. I'd rather see our best players in their best positions rather than shoehorning SOB into 8.

    Also massively underestimating the importance of decision-making and presence in a test-level 7, VDF is ever-present leading the defensive line and setting incredible pace when we need linespeed. We don't need that against every opponent but when we do need it he's the best man for the job.

    SOB is special, but VDF is one of the best 7s in Europe at the moment.


  • #6
    errlloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Ireland Team Talk Thread X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi.


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  • #7
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,721 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Ireland Team Talk Thread X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi.

    Could also be the title to Jaco's autobiography.


  • #8
    swiwi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,501 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Ireland Team Talk Thread X: “It’s tall good men”


  • #9
    Rigor Mortis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Ireland Team Talk Thread X: “Dr.Strangehate: How I learned to stop worrying and love Ewan McKenna"


  • #10
    Elsa Narrow Witch
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Elsa Narrow Witch


    I still don't think we've any evidence that SOB is still the player he used to be. I can't think of any time since the Lions that he's really put in a massive performance. Obviously a lot of that is injury related but it's an age ago.

    He started against Argentina in the AIs, had go off injured again, Leavy came in for him and honestly was a huge improvement. Similarly Leavy was outstanding all through the championship last season. He should be starting if fit imo.


  • #11
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Ireland Team Talk Thread X gonna give it to ya


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  • #12
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »
    I still don't think we've any evidence that SOB is still the player he used to be. I can't think of any time since the Lions that he's really put in a massive performance. Obviously a lot of that is injury related but it's an age ago.

    I think SOB's ceiling is obviously higher than any other option at flanker in Irish rugby but, with that said, it's very much up in the air if he is able to play to that level any longer. He has started about 10 games of rugby since the Lions tour and I would guess he has departed injured in about 4 of those and he certainly never got back to the same heights that he showed us in NZ.

    He's going to need some sort of run of 3 or 4 games before he's back up to speed. At 32, it simply isn't a case any longer that he can just bounce back from injury and deliver a huge performance. He has had a couple of appearances now over the past few weeks but I'd much prefer if he had been allowed play for Leinster against the Scarlets to get some extra game time in his legs.

    If his body holds up, I think he'll go well enough at the weekend but I'm quite dubious as to whether we'll ever see the SOB of old again at this point. Given his injury issues over the years, I think it's even a mild surprise his career has made it to 32.


  • #13
    roverjoyce
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭roverjoyce


    SOB's best position is 6 as proved on the Lions
    He should be compared against POM


  • #14
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    roverjoyce wrote: »
    SOB's best position is 6 as proved on the Lions
    He should be compared against POM

    I totally agree...

    ...Except he started at 7 in all 3 test games pushing the captain who was an excellent 7 out of position ;)


  • #15
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Ireland team talk thread X : It’s a long, long way to Yokohama


  • #16
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Buer wrote: »
    I think SOB's ceiling is obviously higher than any other option at flanker in Irish rugby but, with that said, it's very much up in the air if he is able to play to that level any longer. He has started about 10 games of rugby since the Lions tour and I would guess he has departed injured in about 4 of those and he certainly never got back to the same heights that he showed us in NZ.

    He's going to need some sort of run of 3 or 4 games before he's back up to speed. At 32, it simply isn't a case any longer that he can just bounce back from injury and deliver a huge performance. He has had a couple of appearances now over the past few weeks but I'd much prefer if he had been allowed play for Leinster against the Scarlets to get some extra game time in his legs.

    If his body holds up, I think he'll go well enough at the weekend but I'm quite dubious as to whether we'll ever see the SOB of old again at this point. Given his injury issues over the years, I think it's even a mild surprise his career has made it to 32.
    A bit like Warburton though, he’s has rarely failed to deliver in a big game. It’s an absolute gamble at this stage as to how long his body can hold out. I’d hope for his sake he gets the next 10 months out of it and gets to finish on a high.


  • #17
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Ireland Team Talk Thread X: Z**o

    I mean zero wins of course.


  • #18
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    stephen_n wrote: »
    A bit like Warburton though, he’s has rarely failed to deliver in a big game. It’s an absolute gamble at this stage as to how long his body can hold out. I’d hope for his sake he gets the next 10 months out of it and gets to finish on a high.

    It's a valid comparison. The only thing I'd say is that Warburton retired at 29. Put another couple of years on his clock (which is where SOB is now) and I'd wonder if he would be able to come back into test level matches and make the same immediate impact.


  • #19
    jonok28
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Ireland team talk thread X: Joxer goes to Japan.


  • #20
    Diabhal Beag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    Ireland Team Talk: 3 Farrells not related


  • #21
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Ireland team talk thread X: A bridge too Farrell


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  • #22
    part time punk
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭part time punk


    Ireland team Talk thread: Tainted Love


  • #23
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,821 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Will find out soon enough if this is accurate: https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1093490023234711553?s=19


  • #24
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,821 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Team out: https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1093506213374033920?s=19


  • #25
    BAM! uhavechlamydia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭BAM! uhavechlamydia


    As expected... after all the bloody injuries....looks a decent side on paper and I will expect a narrow win


  • #26
    MarinersBlues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭MarinersBlues


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Team out: https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1093506213374033920?s=19
    First thought: Henshaw should have stayed at Connacht.

    Filling a gap at Leinster has undone his world cup credentials.


  • #27
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,821 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    First thought: Henshaw should have stayed at Connacht.

    Filling a gap at Leinster has undone his world cup credentials.

    He's out due to to dead leg..


  • #28
    MarinersBlues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭MarinersBlues


    Eod100 wrote: »
    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    First thought: Henshaw should have stayed at Connacht.

    Filling a gap at Leinster has undone his world cup credentials.

    He's out due to to dead leg..
    It wouldn't have happened if he was still at Connacht.


  • #29
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,808 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Considering the injuries that still a really good side we've managed to put out.

    Even the bench has impact with the front rowers, Dillane, Carbery and Larmour.


  • #30
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    It wouldn't have happened if he was still at Connacht.

    I never knew all Connacht players are immune to injury...

    Exciting to see if Farrell can replicate his performance from last year now.


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  • #31
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    First thought: Henshaw should have stayed at Connacht.

    Filling a gap at Leinster has undone his world cup credentials.


    I would imagine he disagrees, especially with the medals in his pocket. The fact he walks back into the team every time he's fit also suggests the move hasn't done him much harm. Bizzare comment really.


  • #32
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Can't wait for Farrell to play well followed by a certain cohort believing he should start ahead of Ringrose.


  • #33
    joseywhales
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    My only concern is the lineout. Also what does Sean Cronin have to do to start a game?!? He has rarely been in better form.


  • #34
    kingofthekong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kingofthekong


    I think Farrell is a liability in defense, consistently bites in and gets taken out of the game by diving at a defender - I hope he proves me wrong


  • #35
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    joseywhales wrote: »
    My only concern is the lineout. Also what does Sean Cronin have to do to start a game?!? He has rarely been in better form.


    Dye his hair :-) I think the ginger is the problem


  • #36
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    joseywhales wrote: »
    My only concern is the lineout. Also what does Sean Cronin have to do to start a game?!? He has rarely been in better form.

    Based on what?

    We went 11/12 last week

    Best has always been a consistently better thrower than Cronin.

    Cronin is in great form but dropping the captain to bring in a poorer thrower doesn't make much sense


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  • #37
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Can't wait for Farrell to play well followed by a certain cohort believing he should start ahead of Ringrose.

    Genuinely don't think I've heard anyone express this view? :confused:


  • #38
    randomname2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    Based on what?

    We went 11/12 last week

    Best has always been a consistently better thrower than Cronin.

    Cronin is in great form but dropping the captain to bring in a poorer thrower doesn't make much sense

    I imagine the loss of Toner is what is being referred to here, not specifically the selection of Best. I get concerned about the line out when Toner is not available or not selected.


  • #39
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    aloooof wrote: »
    Genuinely don't think I've heard anyone express this view? :confused:

    It happened last year after the Wales game.

    Go back and check if you don't believe me.


  • #40
    Suspectman123
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Suspectman123


    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    Based on what?

    We went 11/12 last week

    Best has always been a consistently better thrower than Cronin.

    Cronin is in great form but dropping the captain to bring in a poorer thrower doesn't make much sense

    Best has had far more howlers this season than cronin, but I can’t see the sense in dropping best i a game like this, need the leadership and experience for start of this game anyway
    But cronin needs to see the field on 50


  • #41
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Faugheen wrote: »
    It happened last year after the Wales game.

    Go back and check if you don't believe me.

    Genuinely just found one comment:
    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Farrell - 9. Excellent. Looks like he has been playing international rugby for 50 caps. Or if he had a Henshaw disguise on, people would have been lauding how Henshaw is now so at home in international rugby. Henshaw and Ringrose, will be battling it out for a future in a green shirt beside him. Aki now surplus to needs and his time as a stopgap done.

    One or 2 others suggesting Ringrose into the 23 jersey, as he came back from fitness. That was it.


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  • #42
    joseywhales
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    arsebiscuits1 wrote: »
    Based on what?

    We went 11/12 last week

    Best has always been a consistently better thrower than Cronin.

    Cronin is in great form but dropping the captain to bring in a poorer thrower doesn't make much sense

    It's the lack of lineout callers who are experienced at test level and the loss of toner, I would be comfortable is Henderson was fit.

    Regarding best/cronin, Cronin has proven himself to be consistent end of last year and this year so far, he has improved a lot, not just try scoring at the back of mauls(from which he is joint top try scorer in europe) but also his ball carrying, lineouts (yes he is a decent consistent thrower now), decision making (see last weeks john cooney try v england when they had no cover in the middle of the ruck). He has certainly improved and his game has matured. While Best is soldering on, however, I always felt the best part of his game was poaching ball/slowing opposition rucks, due to his speed/toughness and canny ability to read play. When was the last time you have seen him be effective in that are at test level? The other part of his game that receives praise is his scrummaging, I can have no comment there unless you can give me, stability stats, Newtons/M^2 output and the surface contact area he gives up in the scrum, I am no scrum expert. Lastly he is there for leadership, there is no doubt he is a good leader but I don't know if that is enough to justify someone's place alone. I would at least consider swapping roles, cronin starting and besty playing 25 mins. That's just my opinion.


  • #43
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    aloooof wrote: »
    Genuinely just found one comment:

    One or 2 others suggesting Ringrose into the 23 jersey, as he came back from fitness. That was it.

    Genuinely didn’t look hard enough

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106251202&postcount=9116

    ‘Farrell is first choice.. will come down to form’

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106251205&postcount=9117

    ‘No established Irish centre apart from Henshaw...’

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106251395&postcount=9122

    ‘By the summer I'm not so sure Ringrose will be considered a better rugby player so straightforwardly.’

    Same conversations were had over the Summer where people were saying we can’t be sure about Ringrose being undisputed first choice until we saw more from Farrell.

    Good few people realised after the clinic Ringrose put on against Scotland that it was clear as day who the best centre we have is. Still expecting some to lose the run of themselves when Farrell has another good game on Saturday though.


  • #44
    swiwi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,501 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Buer wrote: »
    I think SOB's ceiling is obviously higher than any other option at flanker in Irish rugby but, with that said, it's very much up in the air if he is able to play to that level any longer. He has started about 10 games of rugby since the Lions tour and I would guess he has departed injured in about 4 of those and he certainly never got back to the same heights that he showed us in NZ.

    He's going to need some sort of run of 3 or 4 games before he's back up to speed. At 32, it simply isn't a case any longer that he can just bounce back from injury and deliver a huge performance. He has had a couple of appearances now over the past few weeks but I'd much prefer if he had been allowed play for Leinster against the Scarlets to get some extra game time in his legs.

    If his body holds up, I think he'll go well enough at the weekend but I'm quite dubious as to whether we'll ever see the SOB of old again at this point. Given his injury issues over the years, I think it's even a mild surprise his career has made it to 32.

    +1 from me for the new thread title.


  • #45
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Faugheen wrote: »

    Good few people realised after the clinic Ringrose put on against Scotland that it was clear as day who the best centre we have is. Still expecting some to lose the run of themselves when Farrell has another good game on Saturday though.

    You're deliberately taking things completely out of context and those quotes do not match up with what you claimed. You snip a quote from me of "no established Irish centre aside from Henshaw."

    And, at the time, this was accurate. Ringrose had not played a minute of the 6N to that point and had missed all of the November tests. He was lining out for Leinster the day before Farrell played against Wales.

    So yes, there was no established Irish centre outside of Henshaw at that time.

    In no way does it mean anything about a cohort of people claiming Farrell should now start ahead of him.


  • #46
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Genuinely didn’t look hard enough

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106251202&postcount=9116

    ‘Farrell is first choice.. will come down to form’

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106251205&postcount=9117

    ‘No established Irish centre apart from Henshaw...’

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106251395&postcount=9122

    ‘By the summer I'm not so sure Ringrose will be considered a better rugby player so straightforwardly.’

    As someone who's accused me of mis-quoting you / twisting your quotes in the past, these seem extremely selective to me at best, and at worst disingenuous.

    Did you even read Buer's full post which you've linked above??


  • #47
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The title of the thread is SEE MOD WARNING?

    Those crooked tyrants have truly lost it now.


  • #48
    BAM! uhavechlamydia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭BAM! uhavechlamydia


    aloooof wrote: »
    Genuinely just found one comment:



    One or 2 others suggesting Ringrose into the 23 jersey, as he came back from fitness. That was it.

    And that one comment is from a well known Leinster fan :D


  • #49
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    BAM! uhavechlamydia wrote: »
    And that one comment is from a well known Leinster fan :D

    Sir, I don't care what you have to say. With a name like that i will quote regardless.


  • #50
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Buer wrote: »
    You're deliberately taking things completely out of context and those quotes do not match up with what you claimed. You snip a quote from me of "no established Irish centre aside from Henshaw."

    And, at the time, this was accurate. Ringrose had not played a minute of the 6N to that point and had missed all of the November tests. He was lining out for Leinster the day before Farrell played against Wales.

    So yes, there was no established Irish centre outside of Henshaw at that time.

    In no way does it mean anything about a cohort of people claiming Farrell should now start ahead of him.

    Ringrose was more than established. He was coming back from injury at the time but there was nothing to suggest that he was anything other than first choice 13 when everyone was available.

    Fact is, people questioned Ringrose’s ability and suggested that Farrell would surpass him. It’s gone on to be proven to be absolute nonsense and theres no Irish 13 within touching distance of him.

    People completely jumped the gun with Farrell’s performance against Wales and it’s not going to be the last time it happens either, because Irish rugby fans have a tendency to think a back-up player who does well when called upon is suddenly in the hunt to start when everyone’s fit.


  • #51
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Still haven’t seen a shred of evidence of anyone questioning Ringroses ability.

    This is persecution complex stuff.


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