General Rugby Discussion II

swiwi_ · 11-04-2021 9:49am

Pussyhands wrote: »

ROG is doing well but I find him very arrogant when he speaks.

He loves to namecheck these acronyms and things as if he wants everyone to admire him for being a revolutionary or something.

Obvious example is the KBA thing...Keep Ball Alive

He goes to NZ and thinks keeping the ball alive is a new concept in the NH.

Same thing a few years ago when he was doing punditry not long after going to France.."there's a saying in France where they say Jouer Jouer", you'd swear h was giving us some real inside info.

He'll end up at Munster but he knows Munster and then Ireland is the end game so he'll make sure it's one of his last coaching gigs. Once he comes back to Ireland, he'll not be going abroad again.

Hate it when posters use acronyms. Obvious example is the NZ thing...New Zealand or the NH thing...Northern Hemisphere. So arrogant.

mfceiling · 11-04-2021 1:27pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Hate it when posters use acronyms. Obvious example is the NZ thing...New Zealand or the NH thing...Northern Hemisphere. So arrogant.

FO swiwi.

Burkie1203 · 11-04-2021 7:55pm

https://twitter.com/JLyall93/status/1381319425782124545?s=19

sydthebeat · 15-04-2021 10:02am

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/new-eligibility-laws-could-prevent-folau-fakatava-from-playing-for-the-all-blacks-upon-return-from-injury/

Anyone else see this article from rugby pass?

Surely they have gotten the residency rules skew ways if, by their thinking, it's dependent on making your debut before the 31st Dec 2021?

If the three years residency was fulfilled with 2021, doesn't that make you eligible for selection.... And not dependent on selection?..

Or have I got it arseways

For example, does pierre schoeman, who is eligible for Scotland now, lose his eligibility if he's not selected for a game this year??.

Seems like a crazy situation if true

Squidgy Black · 15-04-2021 10:35am

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/new-eligibility-laws-could-prevent-folau-fakatava-from-playing-for-the-all-blacks-upon-return-from-injury/

Anyone else see this article from rugby pass?

Surely they have gotten the residency rules skew ways if, by their thinking, it's dependent on making your debut before the 31st Dec 2021?

If the three years residency was fulfilled with 2021, doesn't that make you eligible for selection.... And not dependent on selection?..

Or have I got it arseways

For example, does pierre schoeman, who is eligible for Scotland now, lose his eligibility if he's not selected for a game this year??.

Seems like a crazy situation if true

Yeah it's a bit mad, this was the statement that world rugby said at the time:

"The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule"

So basically yeah if you're not capped before the end of the year you go to the 60 month rule instead.

sydthebeat · 15-04-2021 10:39am

thanks, so yeah... seems like a mad condition to put into it.

keenan knox falls under this as well as far as i know. i wonder will we see him brought on any potential summer tour because of it? even with only 13 munster appearance ????

Quin_Dub · 15-04-2021 10:41am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yeah it's a bit mad, this was the statement that world rugby said at the time:

"The Executive Committee also confirmed that a player must meet both the 36 months residency requirement and have represented the union on or before 31 December, 2021, otherwise the player will fall under the 60-month rule"

So basically yeah if you're not capped before the end of the year you go to the 60 month rule instead.

It's a bit odd , but given that the date has been moved back 18+ months from the date that was originally announced (Was supposed to cut in in May 2020) , how many players that would have started the 3 year countdown before the original change was announced are possibly going to be impacted here?

sydthebeat · 15-04-2021 10:46am

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It's a bit odd , but given that the date has been moved back 18+ months from the date that was originally announced (Was supposed to cut in in May 2020) , how many players that would have started the 3 year countdown before the original change was announced are possibly going to be impacted here?

so if im understanding you correctly, do you mean that this hits in for any plyer signed after the "five year rule" kicked in ... but were given 18 months grace to fall under the previous regime?

or does this effect every single player signed under the "3 year rule" but simply not capped yet?? ie fakatava, knox, schoeman etc

Quin_Dub · 15-04-2021 10:48am

sydthebeat wrote: »

thanks, so yeah... seems like a mad condition to put into it.

keenan knox falls under this as well as far as i know. i wonder will we see him brought on any potential summer tour because of it? even with only 13 munster appearance ????

I doubt it - He moved here in December 2017 when he was already over 18 (he's 22 this month) so he's already here 3 and a half years. Even with the new 5 year rule , he's only got ~18 months left.

He can use that time to establish himself as a starter in Munster.

Quin_Dub · 15-04-2021 11:06am

sydthebeat wrote: »

so if im understanding you correctly, do you mean that this hits in for any plyer signed after the "five year rule" kicked in ... but were given 18 months grace to fall under the previous regime?

or does this effect every single player signed under the "3 year rule" but simply not capped yet?? ie fakatava, knox, schoeman etc

As I read it - Any player capped before December 2021 must have completed 3 years of residency prior to being capped , beginning after the age of 18 unless their entire family actually emigrated to the new country at an earlier date - In the Fakatava case , they aren't counting the time in NZ Boarding school because his family still lived in Tonga so his "permanent residence" was considered Tonga as a result so the clock didn't start until he turned 18.

Anyone capped on or after January 1st 2022 must have completed 5 years of Residency as per the above rules.

My point was that if you moved to a new country with a view to qualifying to play for them anytime after the change was announced in 2017 , you knew that the change was coming in 2020.

So anyone signing with an expectation of qualifying under the 3 year rule should have already been here since late 2017 at the very latest, and if not capped by now should know that the 5 year rule now applies.

This new announcement doesn't change the rules - That how it was supposed to apply if it was activated last year , so I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to have sympathy if they are complaining about just missing out on a date that only exists because of the Pandemic.

Schoeman for example signed for Edinburgh in 2018 which means he was signing knowing that he was going to have to complete the 5 year window as under the original ruling he would only have ~2 years done when the change occurred.

sydthebeat · 15-04-2021 11:17am

Any player capped before December 2021 must have completed 3 years of residency prior to being capped

i guess my question is...... someone who complied with the 3 year residency rule..... lets take Knox for example.
as hes met the 3 year rule before the extension was applied, hes available for selection yes?
or is he not eligible for selection due to the fact hes not capped yet... and he has to wait another 18 months?

so essentially ... any player who complied with the 3 year residency by May 2020 and not capped... do they have to wait until they are 5 year residence before they are eligible? because id imagine there s quite a few players who were signed on the 3 year basis who are not capped yet.

Squidgy Black · 15-04-2021 11:26am

sydthebeat wrote: »

i guess my question is...... someone who complied with the 3 year residency rule..... lets take Knox for example.
as hes met the 3 year rule before the extension was applied, hes available for selection yes?
or is he not eligible for selection due to the fact hes not capped yet... and he has to wait another 18 months?

so essentially ... any player who complied with the 3 year residency by May 2020 and not capped... do they have to wait until they are 5 year residence before they are eligible? because id imagine there s quite a few players who were signed on the 3 year basis who are not capped yet.

If they were compliant with the original deadline of May 2020 then they'd only have to wait a couple more months to become eligible because the new rule change doesn't come into effect until the end of 2021, but yeah there's no mention of what would happen to players outside of the 'grey zone' created by the exemption.

Quin_Dub · 15-04-2021 11:46am

sydthebeat wrote: »

i guess my question is...... someone who complied with the 3 year residency rule..... lets take Knox for example.
as hes met the 3 year rule before the extension was applied, hes available for selection yes?
or is he not eligible for selection due to the fact hes not capped yet... and he has to wait another 18 months?

so essentially ... any player who complied with the 3 year residency by May 2020 and not capped... do they have to wait until they are 5 year residence before they are eligible? because id imagine there s quite a few players who were signed on the 3 year basis who are not capped yet.

I think it applies to the date of the 1st cap, so in the Knox example - He arrived sometime in December 2017 so he's now technically eligible to be selected for International games, however if he doesn't take the field in a capped international before December 31st 2021, he'll now have to wait until whatever date in December 2022 to be eligible again.

At least that's my interpretation based on what I've read.

Lost Ormond · 15-04-2021 1:58pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think it applies to the date of the 1st cap, so in the Knox example - He arrived sometime in December 2017 so he's now technically eligible to be selected for International games, however if he doesn't take the field in a capped international before December 31st 2021, he'll now have to wait until whatever date in December 2022 to be eligible again.

At least that's my interpretation based on what I've read.

It couldnt be from when your first cap was. You are eligible from the first date that you qualify and if you arrived before the date change you are eligible in 3 years otherwise its 5 years

Quin_Dub · 15-04-2021 2:04pm

Lost Ormond wrote: »

It couldnt be from when your first cap was. You are eligible from the first date that you qualify and if you arrived before the date change you are eligible in 3 years otherwise its 5 years

That doesn't appear to be the case based on the article that started this strand of conversation.

sydthebeat · 15-04-2021 2:33pm

Lost Ormond wrote: »

It couldnt be from when your first cap was. You are eligible from the first date that you qualify and if you arrived before the date change you are eligible in 3 years otherwise its 5 years

thats what id consider to be reasonable, but not what the article, nor the world rugby statement is leading to.

it essentially seems to say "everyone not capped by the end of the year must show at least 5 years residency before being eligible under residency rules"

thomond2006 · 16-04-2021 9:36pm

https://twitter.com/AbroadRugby/status/1383085046832242691?s=19

https://www.nottinghamrugby.co.uk/three-more-signings

Ben Betts has signed for Nottingham.

Clegg · 16-04-2021 11:30pm

Jordan Coughlan is a name I haven't heard in years. I wonder if Leinster did him dirty by trying to convert him from the backrow to centre.

He would've had a hard time establishing himself in a stacked Leinster backrow, but it was at least the position he'd played most if his underage rugby in. We stalled his development in the backrow in a failed attempt to get some power and bulk at 12.

Schmidt had a goo for a big centre when he was Leinster head coach. He also tried with Eamonn Sheridan. 6'4 and 17 stone. Another who couldn't quite make it.

Lost Ormond · 16-04-2021 11:34pm

Clegg wrote: »

Jordan Coughlan is a name I haven't heard in years. I always wonder if Leinster did him dirty by trying to convert him from the backrow to centre.

He would've had a hard time establishing himself in a stacked Leinster backrow, but it was at least the position he'd played most if his underage rugby in. We stalled his development in the backrow in a failed attempt to get some power and bulk at 12.

I dont think they did at all. It made sense at the time and we possibly should look to do it more. We do overproduce to some extent good backrows when some of these would be better off in other positions and have the transferable skills to succeed in the centre
Just because you played most of your age grade rugby in a position doesnt mean it should be where you end up

Buer · 17-04-2021 8:04am

Clegg wrote: »

Jordan Coughlan is a name I haven't heard in years. I wonder if Leinster did him dirty by trying to convert him from the backrow to centre.

He would've had a hard time establishing himself in a stacked Leinster backrow, but it was at least the position he'd played most if his underage rugby in. We stalled his development in the backrow in a failed attempt to get some power and bulk at 12.

Schmidt had a goo for a big centre when he was Leinster head coach. He also tried with Eamonn Sheridan. 6'4 and 17 stone. Another who couldn't quite make it.

I think it made sense to an extent. He was never going to make it in Ireland as a back row. He was a great athlete but lacked any real bite. He was in the same U20 team as Conan so wasn't getting the 8 jersey and Leinster already had Heaslip, Ruddock, SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin and Dominic Ryan in the back row.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the switching positions approach, Coughlan simply wasn't gonna get much game time, if any as a back row. I don't think he was gonna make it regardless of the position. He possibly regrets giving up cricket at this point more than switching positions.

bilston · 19-04-2021 1:42pm

I was just thinking that today would be a very good day for the Six Nations to announce a Pay TV contract

Teferi · 19-04-2021 1:44pm

Don't you put that juju on us.

Eod100 · 22-04-2021 8:41am

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1385135175667945473?s=19

prawnsambo · 22-04-2021 8:58am

Confirmed by La Rochelle. It really will be Ronan O'Gara's La Rochelle.

The Inbetween is mine · 22-04-2021 9:05am

Knocks the ROG to Munster talk on the head for a couple of years at least....I think VanGran will leave with DeAllende and RG Snyman next seasons end ...so we'll have another coach in before ROG imo

Quin_Dub · 22-04-2021 9:12am

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Knocks the ROG to Munster talk on the head for a couple of years at least....I think VanGran will leave with DeAllende and RG Snyman next seasons end ...so we'll have another coach in before ROG imo

I really don't see O'Gara coming to Munster.

He's made very smart, very pragmatic decision regarding his coaching career thus far.

Moving to Munster would be an emotional choice which I don't see him making. Now if he felt that the only way that he could get to the National role is via coaching within the Irish set-up, then maybe. But there's no evidence that that is a pre-requisite at this stage.

Dave_The_Sheep · 23-04-2021 3:12pm

Is the whole "support the Irish side in a European fixture" thing dead these days?

Based off an interaction I had on the subreddit, I'm curious, who are Irish non-Leinster fans wishing wins next weekend against La Rochelle? Does the ROG connection hold that much weight?

It's still Ireland uber alles for me, bar maybe maybe Clermont, and even then ... No still probably the Irish team 99% of the time.

Captain_Crash · 23-04-2021 3:16pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Is the whole "support the Irish side in a European fixture" thing dead these days?

Based off an interaction I had on the subreddit, I'm curious, who are Irish non-Leinster fans wishing wins next weekend against La Rochelle? Does the ROG connection hold that much weight?

It's still Ireland uber alles for me, bar maybe maybe Clermont, and even then ... No still probably the Irish team 99% of the time.

Always supported the Irish teams in Europe and even the P14 too! Especially if it’s against a Welsh side! Standard practice I would have thought!

Scythica · 23-04-2021 3:28pm

I'd tend to always support the Irish team playing but I wouldn't lose too much sleep if the other team won

It's fairly easy to semi 'support' the likes of leinster anyway given its basically the Irish team.

Paul Smeenus · 23-04-2021 3:47pm

I always grumble about the other provinces, but when it comes to the crunch and the ball's kicked off, I unfailingly row in behind them.

arsebiscuits1 · 23-04-2021 3:53pm

I will with one exception cheer for the Irish team playing.

There have been rare cases where an Irish province winning adversely effects Leinster in which case I might shout for the opposition.

But other than that I'll always cheer on the provinces

Teferi · 23-04-2021 4:30pm

Most of the Irish posters on that subreddit lack perspective and indulge a host of conspiracy theories on Irish rugby. I would take what they have to say with a grain of salt.

AbusesToilets · 23-04-2021 4:58pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I really don't see O'Gara coming to Munster.

He's made very smart, very pragmatic decision regarding his coaching career thus far.

Moving to Munster would be an emotional choice which I don't see him making. Now if he felt that the only way that he could get to the National role is via coaching within the Irish set-up, then maybe. But there's no evidence that that is a pre-requisite at this stage.

I think he'd be potentially very good for leinster in the future. I'd imagine his philosophy for rugby would be very in line with Leinster's ethos.

Cookiemunster · 23-04-2021 8:18pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think he'd be potentially very good for leinster in the future. I'd imagine his philosophy for rugby would be very in line with Leinster's ethos.

And I'd reckon he'd jump at the job too if it came up in a few years time. I think quite a lot Munster fans mistakenly believe that he wants to coach Munster. In reality he'll do what's best for his career. And if that's Leinster over Munster then he'll be a future Leinster coach.

23-04-2021 8:22pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Is the whole "support the Irish side in a European fixture" thing dead these days?

Based off an interaction I had on the subreddit, I'm curious, who are Irish non-Leinster fans wishing wins next weekend against La Rochelle? Does the ROG connection hold that much weight?

It's still Ireland uber alles for me, bar maybe maybe Clermont, and even then ... No still probably the Irish team 99% of the time.

I'd bet the house he'll coach Munster some day, but he's being very very smart about how he's building his coaching career, not to mention probably has a fantastic lifestyle. He's still young and could do another decade abroad. We have a habit of discarding coaches.

As for the talk of Leinster above.... Nah. His CV is more than good enough but he's ROG.

The Inbetween is mine · 23-04-2021 8:46pm

Probably more chance of Brian O'Driscoll walking naked down Grand Parade, singing,
"By the banks of my own lovely Lee"

Burkie1203 · 29-04-2021 6:10pm

The aussie Union Finances are some mess

https://twitter.com/FlaShBloGLive/status/1387781758993592323?s=19

yerrahbah · 30-04-2021 2:51pm

Lets play spot the difference

https://twitter.com/connachtrugby/status/1388121965026856960

https://twitter.com/bernardjackman/status/1384887284491821057

sydthebeat · 30-04-2021 2:52pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

Lets play spot the difference

...

is it.... connacht dont produce their own coaches ???

yerrahbah · 30-04-2021 2:59pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

is it.... connacht dont produce their own coaches ???

Nah its Jackman's reactions to two sides appointing "foreign" coaches.

The Inbetween is mine · 30-04-2021 4:25pm

He's making a distinction between the pro side, and an academy appointment....fair enough I guess if we take it from his point of view.

Burkie1203 · 30-04-2021 4:52pm

https://twitter.com/thepaulwilliams/status/1388083115223097346?s=19

Eod100 · 10-05-2021 10:20am

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1391684320209915905?s=19

hahashake · 10-05-2021 12:40pm

https://twitter.com/SFParisRugby/status/1391717151661121537

Thrashssacre · 10-05-2021 3:05pm

hahashake wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SFParisRugby/status/1391717151661121537

Some signing he's been immense this season.

mfceiling · 10-05-2021 7:32pm

Just saw on twitter Mike Brown doing his best Mike Brown impression by doing a complete Mike Brown on a prone player.

For those of you who didn't see it he stamped his foot into a guy's face who was lying on his back on the ground.

Desperate stuff.

Podge_irl · 10-05-2021 7:52pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Just saw on twitter Mike Brown doing his best Mike Brown impression by doing a complete Mike Brown on a prone player.

For those of you who didn't see it he stamped his foot into a guy's face who was lying on his back on the ground.

Desperate stuff.

After the (deserved tbf) hoohah about Quins treating him poorly, its somewhat ironic that this is how he potentially makes his farewell.

AdamD · 11-05-2021 9:45am

Didn't he stamp on an Irish players head a few years ago in the 6N and get away with it?

Squidgy Black · 11-05-2021 9:48am

AdamD wrote: »

Didn't he stamp on an Irish players head a few years ago in the 6N and get away with it?

Murray's, didn't stamp but rather booted him in the head when you could kick the ball in the ruck. Was pretty much the catalyst for the rule change.

Yeah_Right · 11-05-2021 11:35am

The commentators mentioned his high number of yellow cards but this was his first red. I thought, well it wasnt for lack of trying.

General Rugby Discussion II

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