General Rugby Discussion II

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think Wales are going to struggle without Gatland.

I'd go so far as to say they will become the new Scotland over the next five years.

Big turnover in coaching staff with Gatland, McBryde and Howley gone, and a lot of their best players are getting on in age (sound familiar?).

Blanchguy

molloyjh wrote: »

When did Heaslip say that? I remember him saying that there wasnt a doping culture in rugby and that he believes that the processes in place work. I dont remember him saying he has never played against guys who have doped though. And who did he play against who had been doping?

He said something very much along those lines on the second captains podcast.

BDI

hahashake wrote: »

Saw Cummiskey heavily imply SA are dopers. Bad taste.

I wouldn’t know about that but I was watching Ireland v New Zealand and thought wow them lads must all have naturally high testosterone levels.

Utah_Saint

BDI wrote: »

I wouldn’t know about that but I was watching Ireland v New Zealand and thought wow them lads must all have naturally high testosterone levels.

I don't think a lot of people appreciate how common PEDs are in sport. Does anyone honestly think the most physical sport in the world isn't stained by it? It's not just steroids, HGH appears to be the drug of choice in the NBA and NFL.

I'm sure there are a number of people on here who play for a local club and some team mates are using...it's kinda an open secret on some teams.

BDI

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I don't think a lot of people appreciate how common PEDs are in sport. Does anyone honestly think the most physical sport in the world isn't stained by it? It's not just steroids, HGH appears to be the drug of choice in the NBA and NFL.

I'm sure there are a number of people on here who play for a local club and some team mates are using...it's kinda an open secret on some teams.

I think the way kimmage is being attacked here is hinting that a lot of people know well what’s going on.

Clegg

Ben Tameifuna came back from the World Cup 20kgs overweight. He's at 160kgs whereas his club want him to be at 140kgs.

He's 25 stone and trying to play rugby.

sydthebeat

BDI wrote: »

I think the way kimmage is being attacked here is hinting that a lot of people know well what’s going on.

I don't think theres anyone here actually "attacking" kimmage... But more recognising that he's a dog without a bone when it comes to Irish rugby and doping.
Its pot of gold at the end of the rainbow stuff with him.... To the point that he's actually altered his language from 'doping' to 'medicalisation'....

He's trying to make something out of this heaslip incident into something it isn't.. And it's actually working as casual observers now think heaslip was guilty of doping.

irishbucsfan

BDI wrote: »

I wouldn’t know about that but I was watching Ireland v New Zealand and thought wow them lads must all have naturally high testosterone levels.

Sure why even bother with medical tests done by qualified professionals so, they should just get you in to give everyone a good eyeballin

irishbucsfan

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I don't think a lot of people appreciate how common PEDs are in sport. Does anyone honestly think the most physical sport in the world isn't stained by it? It's not just steroids, HGH appears to be the drug of choice in the NBA and NFL.

I'm sure there are a number of people on here who play for a local club and some team mates are using...it's kinda an open secret on some teams.

Not an open secret on my team, and we also would get tested semi-regularly. What level is your team where it's an open secret?

BDI

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not an open secret on my team, and we also would get tested semi-regularly. What level is your team where it's an open secret?

What constitutes a test?

Pee in a cup

One blood sample?

irishbucsfan

BDI wrote: »

What constitutes a test?

Pee in a cup

One blood sample?

It can be either. I've never seen a blood test though, I'd imagine they're more focused on elite athletes or targeted tests due to the cost and the co-ordination because there's a lot more process involved with those

BDI

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It can be either. I've never seen a blood test though, I'd imagine they're more focused on elite athletes or targeted tests due to the cost and the co-ordination because there's a lot more process involved with those

Ever see anything like a blood passport? Ever watch a documentary on doping in cycling?

Squidgy Black

BDI wrote: »

Ever see anything like a blood passport? Ever watch a documentary on doping in cycling?

Sports Ireland only have blood passports for national level athletes and even then they've only recently introduced them for endurance and power sports (so athletics and weightlifting pretty much).

irishbucsfan

BDI wrote: »

Ever see anything like a blood passport? Ever watch a documentary on doping in cycling?

No, amateur athletes don't need blood passports.

I've seen Icarus. I've also been involved with rugby in multiple countries since I was a child. I have never suspected a team mate of mine in Ireland that I remember.

Utah_Saint

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, amateur athletes don't need blood passports.

I've seen Icarus. I've also been involved with rugby in multiple countries since I was a child. I have never suspected a team mate of mine in Ireland that I remember.

And there is a good chance that you may have never encountered someone who has. All I'll say is its the stupid ones who get caught. If you really know your stuff or work with some who does you can cycle on and off and avoid detection...sometimes it can just be luck that you don't get tested the day you may have something in your system. I believe HGH cannot be accurately detected in urine. There are masking agents you can use for steroids. Also there is a misconception around steroids that its about getting ripped and crazy strength gains. You can low dose something like DBol to accelerate recovery times.

What I'm trying to say is if you play the odds it's most likely happening in most sports.

Burkie1203

BDI wrote: »

I think the way kimmage is being attacked here is hinting that a lot of people know well what’s going on.

Kimmage is still bitter about Heaslip as he got it badly wrong in 2017 when Heaslip dropped out of the England game.

Captain_Crash

Ive been playing rugby over 20 years and throughout my life playing, I've never once suspected any teammate (or opponent) of juicing. However looking at the pressure on the young lads now who are trying to work their way up to first team rugby, I'd be fairly surprised if there wasn't one or two of them doping in some way.

Full disclosure, I play for an AIL team but not 1st XV and this is just an observation.

irishbucsfan

Utah_Saint wrote: »

And there is a good chance that you may have never encountered someone who has. All I'll say is its the stupid ones who get caught. If you really know your stuff or work with some who does you can cycle on and off and avoid detection...sometimes it can just be luck that you don't get tested the day you may have something in your system. I believe HGH cannot be accurately detected in urine. There are masking agents you can use for steroids. Also there is a misconception around steroids that its about getting ripped and crazy strength gains. You can low dose something like DBol to accelerate recovery times.

What I'm trying to say is if you play the odds it's most likely happening in most sports.

Grand yeah, completely understand how it COULD happen, I played rugby in a country in Eastern Europe where it was absolutely everywhere. but my question is what level is the club you said where it’s an open secret?

molloyjh

Blanchguy wrote: »

He said something very much along those lines on the second captains podcast.

Along those lines or exactly that? Because along those lines could be "I don't think I've ever played with or against someone who has doped" which would be very different from "I've never played with or against someone who has doped". I'm not trying to be a dick about this, but it is an important distinction given how we are talking about it.

Quin_Dub

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Ive been playing rugby over 20 years and throughout my life playing, I've never once suspected any teammate (or opponent) of juicing. However looking at the pressure on the young lads now who are trying to work their way up to first team rugby, I'd be fairly surprised if there wasn't one or two of them doping in some way.

Full disclosure, I play for an AIL team but not 1st XV and this is just an observation.

I haven't played for almost 20 years but when I did there used to be a couple of random urine tests a year at our games (AIL Div 1 and 2).

Someone would arrive and ask for the 2 team sheets and pick 3 or 4 names at random and those players would be taken at the end of the game to a room where you had to sit until you filled the cup - Not always easy after a game when dehydrated..

A few guys might have been worried about recreational stuff showing up , but as other have said I never saw or heard of players using PED's in my time.

Utah_Saint

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Grand yeah, completely understand how it COULD happen, I played rugby in a country in Eastern Europe where it was absolutely everywhere. but my question is what level is the club you said where it’s an open secret?

I stopped playing two years ago. I played at a low level. Quite a number of levels below AIL.

I knew of two people using but to be honest it appeared to be more for aesthetics (for Instagram) than actual playing benefit cause they were both sh1te....

I know of one other person who uses but they were involved in amateur bodybuild in Ireland. He tried to go clean at the start then realised he was pretty much the only clean guy in the competition.

Podge_irl

https://twitter.com/owenslot/status/1191663943674220545?s=20


:eek::eek::eek:

Sarries 35 point deduction and 5 million GBP fine. Amazed if true, but will really cast a pall on their successes.

VANG1

So they won by cheating the system ?

That's quite significant. Can there / will there be an appeal?

You would have to think a couple of the other clubs in the Premiership will be somewhat nervous right now.

French clubs will be buying up talent, I wonder will there be a knock on for the provinces in terms of salary overheads.

Utah_Saint

That would be amazing if true. Seems rather harsh tbh.

sydthebeat

hahahaha......

id love if this happens

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

https://twitter.com/owenslot/status/1191663943674220545?s=20


:eek::eek::eek:

Sarries 35 point deduction and 5 million GBP fine. Amazed if true, but will really cast a pall on their successes.

Though worth pointing out that Europe is a different kettle of fish considering the differing structures every team plays in.

sydthebeat

its officially happened !!!!

CIARAN_BOYLE

VANG1 wrote: »

So they won by cheating the system ?

Well there's no european salary cap so those successes are legitimate.

The domestic success is cheating the system.

I wonder if saracwns will survive this. they don't have a clean balance sheet after 5 million of fines. Parents just waves a lot of debt. can this continue?

OldRio

Utah_Saint wrote: »

That would be amazing if true. Seems rather harsh tbh.

Not harsh at all. They flaunted the Premiership rules that other teams obeyed.