Music Scene In Ireland

Helix · 03-07-2011 5:55pm

shayleon wrote: »

trying to make a difference :
http://www.petitiononline.com/mlpmoir/

meh

nationality shouldnt come into it. stations should play what they want

PaulBrewer · 03-07-2011 7:51pm

krd wrote: »

Yeah.........thought you would.

Bet you knew the great Joe Dolan too. And joking aside. People like Joe knew how to make money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqfeqYjqms8

I did a couple of Albums with Joe in his own studio in Mullingar. They used to have a lovely place ( which I think is still there) big live room and a big control room with separate machine room.

Could have been a fantastic place.

drumdrum · 04-07-2011 4:18pm

Helix wrote: »

meh

nationality shouldnt come into it. stations should play what they want

well, to be fair, its the Irish stations that often bring it on themselves when they advertise slogans like "more Irish music than anyone else" and the such. They all like to pander to their audiences and play on their audiences sense of national pride. Heck, every business does this at some point!

I think the only problem is when they proclaim to support Irish music and then the only Irish music they play is either U2 or the Script....both international mega-huge bands who made it big elsewhere first.

They just dont give local bands a chance as the market is too small over here for even the radio stations who struggle to fill advertising space just to break even. They view it that they cant afford to take risks with local bands that nobody has heard of. Whether they are good or not is irrelevant.
Its about branding most of the time. Big bands are brands and recognised names which the radio station use to keep listeners tuned in.

How many times have you heard things like -
"Coming up after the break I've got the new song from X for you, so stay tuned for that! <ads then come on>"
- on the radio, where X is the name of a big artist such as Lady Gaga or U2?
If you actually listen out for these things, its amazing at how often we take hooks and things like this for granted!

maccored · 04-07-2011 4:53pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

You don't get any from YouTube... I know country and Irish artists with half a million views.

you dont make money from youtube, but plenty of other video sites offer advertising revenue (tiny, tiny, tiny advertising revenue but something all the same.) Wouldnt pay the mortgage right enough.

drumdrum · 04-07-2011 5:57pm

you can technically make money from youtube, but its quite hard and they select you from what I can see. Its called youtube partnership program or something.

You can read up on it here:
http://www.youtube.com/partners

Interesting read, but seems like theres not much stuff there for the little guy!

flyswatter · 04-07-2011 7:46pm

drumdrum wrote: »

you can technically make money from youtube, but its quite hard and they select you from what I can see. Its called youtube partnership program or something.

You can read up on it here:
http://www.youtube.com/partners

Interesting read, but seems like theres not much stuff there for the little guy!

Yep, a friend of mine received a youtube partnership there recently. If the videos pick up a lot of hits you can indeed make money from your uploads.

PaulBrewer · 04-07-2011 8:11pm

flyswatter wrote: »

drumdrum wrote: »

you can technically make money from youtube, but its quite hard and they select you from what I can see. Its called youtube partnership program or something.

You can read up on it here:
http://www.youtube.com/partners

Interesting read, but seems like theres not much stuff there for the little guy!

Yep, a friend of mine received a youtube partnership there recently. If the videos pick up a lot of hits you can indeed make money from your uploads.

Has anyone here actually done that ?

Is payment for views or for clicks on ads ?
I'm on my phone so reading a long FAQ isn't comfy at the moment.

It's probably a pittance ?

eviltimeban · 06-07-2011 12:11pm

krd wrote: »

Plus I think Rob wants to beat me up - he's sore after me calling him a monster on facebook. Every gig I've been to since that circus freak has been trying to sniff me out.

Define "circus freak"? Someone who's taller than 6'?

I'm not really sore about your comments about me; after all, you are using the anonymity of a web forum to make them. Perhaps come up to me after the next gig and call me a "circus freak". After all, you did want to "say hi" to the band, didn't you?

krd · 06-07-2011 6:12pm

eviltimeban wrote: »

Define "circus freak"? Someone who's taller than 6'?

Not necessarily. Circuses have dwarves, ladies with beards, and cojoined twins.

I'm not really sore about your comments about me;

He says - but watch what he says next.

after all, you are using the anonymity of a web forum to make them. Perhaps come up to me after the next gig and call me a "circus freak".

That sounds like pissed. That sounds like sore. That sounds like a sore fcuking threat.

After all, you did want to "say hi" to the band, didn't you?

I'm not coming anywhere near you, when you're in that mood.

Rob.........will you get a grip.....Sweet love of fff'ing Jesus

eviltimeban · 06-07-2011 7:12pm

krd wrote: »

Not necessarily. Circuses have dwarves, ladies with beards, and cojoined twins.

He says - but watch what he says next.

That sounds like pissed. That sounds like sore. That sounds like a sore fcuking threat.

I'm not coming anywhere near you, when you're in that mood.

Rob.........will you get a grip.....Sweet love of fff'ing Jesus

I knew you'd back down. :-)

Just watch what you say about people, is all.

Glad you like the band and come to our gigs! Come up and shake my hand after the next one. Seriously, I won't squeeze too hard with my gigantic, shovel-like hands...

Android 666 · 07-07-2011 9:18am

There's your music scene in Ireland right there lads…

Play all the safe music you want in the hopes of getting somewhere lads, some gobby tit will always come along and usurp you…

fitz · 07-07-2011 10:32am

eviltimeban wrote: »

I knew you'd back down. :-)

Just watch what you say about people, is all.

Glad you like the band and come to our gigs! Come up and shake my hand after the next one. Seriously, I won't squeeze too hard with my gigantic, shovel-like hands...

One thing about the "scene" here is that it's way too small to get into stuff like this. Do you really want potential fans thinking that you're the type to write (what could be seen as) intimidating replies to someone you think is being an ass on a forum?
It's not something you come out of looking good.

As for the Brunker thing Android, it's a crying shame that one of a litany of talented bands didn't get a look in for that slot. Best not to try and understand it.

eviltimeban · 07-07-2011 11:47am

fitz wrote: »

One thing about the "scene" here is that it's way too small to get into stuff like this. Do you really want potential fans thinking that you're the type to write (what could be seen as) intimidating replies to someone you think is being an ass on a forum?
It's not something you come out of looking good.

You're right, I agree with you. Its not just someone being an ass though, its someone getting personal, for no reason at all. And that's going to provoke a reaction from me. Sorry, fans! :-)

ON TOPIC for once, I think the music scene isn't that healthy, because, let's face it, most of the bands aren't very good. It was same story back in 1998 when I was first gigging in bands, was the same in 2004 when I was again more involved, and its the same now that I am a bit older and see all the younger bands coming up. Most of the bands seem to be more interested in how tight their trousers are and what gear they have rather than writing good tunes and singing them well.

In the last 10 or 12 years I can only think of one local band who impressed me, they were called September Sun, sort of pseudo-psychedelic grunge. They were great because they had good songs, could play, had personality, looked like rock stars, and had the ambition to be something different. They made an album (self released, I have a copy) but they just disappeared. I think they should've gone to the States cos they probably could've made it. Anyone remember them?

Denalihighway · 07-07-2011 2:45pm

eviltimeban wrote: »

You're right, I agree with you. Its not just someone being an ass though, its someone getting personal, for no reason at all. And that's going to provoke a reaction from me. Sorry, fans! :-)

+1

J_E · 08-07-2011 12:19am

flyswatter wrote: »

Yep, a friend of mine received a youtube partnership there recently. If the videos pick up a lot of hits you can indeed make money from your uploads.

You'll find they're extremely picky though and if they even have a notion you're asking people to click on ads for money, they'll take it away for good. A friend of mine messaged a few people to click on ads to help him out and they terminated the partnership.

PaulBrewer · 09-07-2011 5:01pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oZFZ3JesBcw#at=77

That's THE SCENE right there!

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 09-07-2011 5:12pm

omfg ^^^^^^^
thats just a feaces sammich

flyswatter · 09-07-2011 5:21pm

Atrocious.

MilanPan!c · 09-07-2011 5:22pm

DaDumTish wrote: »

omfg ^^^^^^^
thats just a faeces sammich

It's worse; I'd bet somewhere in the world you'd find at least 1 person that'd like a faeces sandwich...

krd · 12-07-2011 6:08pm

This worth reading. From the Independent on Amanda Brunker.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/ill-tell-you-why-you-shouldnt-have-got-a-chance-amanda-2817785.html

It's by Daniel McConnell. I'm not sure what band he's in.

Her presence on the Vodafone stage at Oxegen is the final nail in the coffin of the Irish music scene, which has been dying painfully slowly for years.

I think Daniel and lots of other people completely miss the point. They think if they would have had the same slot as Brunker it would have done something for their career or profile.

It would have not done anything for them. Nada - nuffink. They'd get a pass to Oxygen and that's about it. Personally, I'm boycotting Oxygen after this and other atrocities.

You've seen the Youtube clip. There were only 30 odd people there to see her - mostly, probably by accident. The reason she's had so much exposure from it, is because she's Amanda Brunker. And her appearance on the bill was more than a little outrageous.

If a "worthy" "deserving" band had been given the slot, no one would have noticed. And most people (of the tiny insignificant group of people who noticed) would still be thinking in the back of their minds, look at such and such - bet they got that slot because of pull with Desmond.

It's not a case of unfairness either. Brunker is completely lacking in any musical ability. She probably doesn't even really like music. She only knew a few words from With or without you.

Brunker's talent (and what she may have worked at) is not anything you could describe as musical. Her talent is drawing attention to herself. So many "serious" musicians you see around perform and look like, the most boring people you could possibly meet - waiting for a bus. Bands nowadays are tighter musicians, may be better with their arrangements, craft etc - but they are boring on so many other levels it is a pain to watch them.

And I think the people who complain about her - don't really understand what music and performance is all about. And you know something - if she could actually sing and perform, the whole package might not be that bad.

This is worth reading too. Andrea Smith from the same paper. As it illustrates the most salient point - and really the problem with most bands.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/brunker-brings-fresh-air-to-a-muddy-oxegen-2817732.html

The truth about Oxegen is that people go to festivals to be entertained. If I was wandering around a muddy field in Kildare, I'd be a million times more interested in watching Amanda Brunker potentially torturing the eardrums off the crowd, than being bored rigid by the "credible" music emanating from some earnest Z-list band who'd have trouble filling Whelan's.

The next time your band plays Whelans - invite Amanda to come along and sing a song. I guarantee you, it will pack the house. Some of her stardust may rub off - the Indo may start writing about you. And in the end if one thing leads to another, you may get a real slot at Oxygen. And don't forget to bring Amanda. After all, she's the one who got you there.

Shapey Fiend · 13-07-2011 10:27am

My experience of the Irish gig scene (I reviewed a lot of bands for a music website in Cork) is that 90% of them are DULL. There's so much underwhelming indie music going around that the whole genre is saturated. I think that's a sign of too much support not a lack of it. If you're main influence is Radiohead in 2011 then you're a boring act.

Three of the bands playing Oxegen this year came out of the Irish hip hop 'scene' (http://www.irishhiphop.com/forum/read.php?11,142738). Most of the Irish hip hop community spent the past 10 years playing gigs to rooms of other rappers and 5 of their mates. Not only were people not interested in hearing the music, they were actively hostile towards it. Maverick Sabre started singing over dubstep and doing reggae stuff. The Original Rudeboys (Neddy) started doing saccarine love songs that birds like. The Rubberbandits started singing and turning their live sets into a theatrical stage show. They're all doing really well.

The rest of the community who stuck to traditional hip hop started doing rap battles. This has nothing to do with music but these day time events dragged in a load of punters, most of them under 18 who buy loads of CD's. The youtube channel helps with exposure (people actually know what people look like and what they're about) and they use that as a channel to get hits on their music videos. These battle events mostly consist of rappers insulting each others music and making ugly remarks about their girlfriends yet there's no real bad blood between anybody because it gets everybody on a stage together to hash the thing out.

I suppose what I'm saying is live rap music is boring. Live indie music is boring. You have to bring something extra at this stage to have a hope of filling a venue. Getting traction on the internet is getting really, really difficult as well. It's going to take more interaction between musicians to create destinations or channels that have regular content and plenty of google juice. You stick a music video on youtube these days and unless it's on a channel with lots of subscribers or it has some humour aspect it dies on its arse.

SeanHurley · 13-07-2011 10:34am

hmmm guitar solo battles?:D

krd · 13-07-2011 4:25pm

SeanHurley wrote: »

hmmm guitar solo battles?:D

No, FFF'ing way.

If you want guitar battles go down to MusicMaker now.

All the school kids will be battling each other out with snippetts of solos they've learned. It is hell.

SeanHurley · 13-07-2011 4:39pm

krd wrote: »

No, FFF'ing way.

If you want guitar battles go down to MusicMaker now.

All the school kids will be battling each other out with snippetts of solos they've learned. It is hell.

Strangely enough I was in MusicMaker at lunch time and sure enough there were a group of young fellas who were butchering solos in front of a few young wans. The lads working in MM must need counselling at the end of the working week.

krd · 13-07-2011 4:50pm

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

I suppose what I'm saying is live rap music is boring. Live indie music is boring. You have to bring something extra at this stage to have a hope of filling a venue. .

Neither live indie or rap are boring. It's the way their done. It's like telling a joke. There's so much more to it than just the words.

And it's the people. If the people are essentially boring people it will come across in their music. It comes across in their performance.

And you can't hide it with gimics. One band I can't remember the name of, the singer used to do all kinds of tricks like cycling on a unicycle and juggling. They were still ****e.

Look at the way Christy Moore engages and audience. It's really simple. He talks and tells a few stories between his songs. If you look at the way so many Irish indie bands perform: wide eyed blank stares, no effort to engage anyone. Musicians trying to play over each other (one of the most fundamental things musicians have to learn to do is not play over each other - nobody gives a flying f about the drummers snare - if he's trying to battle the singer with it he's a sh1te drummer)

I think these people look at the "stars" and think that if only a record company would come along and spend a fortune on them, the same charisma would magically materialise. It doesn't happen that way.

The guys doing the rap battles I think really have something. And they're learning on their feet.

krd · 13-07-2011 5:02pm

SeanHurley wrote: »

Strangely enough I was in MusicMaker at lunch time and sure enough there were a group of young fellas who were butchering solos in front of a few young wans. The lads working in MM must need counselling at the end of the working week.

Imagine having to put up with that for several months.

An experience I've had which I know other people have had too: The drummer who will not quit fff'ing around in rehearsals. In between songs -- while you're trying to talk to the others and work out arrangements, Animal from the Muppets, keeps banging his drums (way louder and harder than he does in any of the songs). You're trying to tune up, he deliberately f's with the drums. And does it in such and annoying way that everyone ends up with a splitting headache. And it's not just drummers - sometimes you have the guitar hero who keeps breaking into Sweet Child of Mine between songs. You're trying to think over your songs and the wanker is filling your head with Sweet Child of Mine. I think that's what really causes the headaches - you're trying to think of one piece of music and you have another piece of music being played very loudly in your ear.

Shapey Fiend · 13-07-2011 10:32pm

Shapey Fiend · 13-07-2011 10:35pm

I suppose what I'm trying to say is if you're doing something different than everybody else is doing then you don't necessarily have to be the very best. Not everybody is that talented. There are too many similar bands around with similar influences. If you're bringing something new to the table it doesn't have to be perfect.

Live rap is incredibly hard to do well though. There's a reason most of the top touring acts are rock. If you're playing on a bad soundsystem with rock the melody still carries. 90% of the rap gigs I go to you can't make out the lyrics and there's not much melody to fall back on. People have to rely on the rhythm of the delivery, crowd interaction and other stuff to help compensate. It can be done it's just requires a lot of talent/hard work. I've seen a couple of people like MJEX and The Informatics whose style of hip hop translates well to a live setting (although it's not necessarily my favorite on record) and it's fair to say they've gotten there by incorporating more singing/dance/melodic elements.

krd · 13-07-2011 11:34pm

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

I suppose what I'm trying to say is if you're doing something different than everybody else is doing then you don't necessarily have to be the very best. Not everybody is that talented. There are too many similar bands around with similar influences. If you're bringing something new to the table it doesn't have to be perfect.

You do have to be different. And if you're bring something new to the table it doesn't need to be perfect - basically you will get absolutely nowhere if you try and ape the artic monkeys or Oasis.

And it doesn't just restrict itself to Ireland. I saw a bunch of new English indie bands play in Dublin a few months back - and they had aped each other so much it wasn't even funny.

Live rap is incredibly hard to do well though.

It is an it isn't. You have to look at the origins of rap. The Jamaican sound system shouters - and the New York street party MCs (which were just an extension of what the Jamaicans had been doing) - even the beat poets - it goes back. It's something that really started as a live thing. And it took a long time for it to become a recorded thing.

There's a reason most of the top touring acts are rock. If you're playing on a bad soundsystem with rock the melody still carries.

It can depend on the style of rap - the shouty stuff carries very well. The beasty boys have done very well for years. Eminem was selling out monstrous venues a few years back. Remember he was booked to play Slane.

I've heard the streets live are awful. He just talks into the mic - and can't get the delivery to work as well as it does on the records.

90% of the rap gigs I go to you can't make out the lyrics and there's not much melody to fall back on.

I've seen that. And I think it's often not the sound system. It's the rapper has lost his bottle and is just mumbling into the mic. The Mic is wired up to the sound system - unless it's completely f'd if you speak up you will be heard.

There is another thing - the sound man may be a tosser - or if you have someone playing beats they might also be a real terrible tosser who thinks they're meant to be competing with the rapper, so they drown them out - those people should have tosser tattoo'd across their foreheads.

There is a lot of rap that has been recorded by the rapper rapping very quietly into a mic - that will just not work on stage. I've seen Fiddy do it - and it just came out as an inaudible mumble.

People have to rely on the rhythm of the delivery, crowd interaction and other stuff to help compensate. It can be done it's just requires a lot of talent/hard work.

I've seen Youtube clips of the Irish guys doing battles - they're more shouty. I think they have the talent - some of the subject matter is a bit off.

I'll say one thing, some of the stuff coming out of London - kids rapping over dubstep - quite a bit of it is sickeningly violent. There's nothing entertaining in having a scumbag tell you how he's going to stab you -several times. The misogyny can be sicking to.

Where people go wrong with hip-hop and rap - and not just here, lots of other places. They think it's all about the look, and the posing. You could say the same for indie. What made Eminem so big was all the crazy stuff he came out with. You really have to have something to say.

flyswatter · 14-07-2011 12:31am

As regards live rap, just look at The Roots live videos on youtube, to see how it should be done. Everyone in that band are incredible musicians. Takes real talent to carry it off though.

Shapey Fiend · 14-07-2011 8:48am

It isn't so much that the guy from the Streets talks it's that he writes his lyrics to be as off beat as possible. It's kind of an interesting style but I can imagine it'd be horrible live.

The thing is I've seen Public Enemy a few times and sometimes they're great and other times they're bloody awful. Last time I saw them in the Savoy the sound was awful and they resorted to doing medlys of choruses from other people hip hop songs and way too much "which side of the audience is loudest" bollocks cos their own songs were falling flat.

madtheory · 14-07-2011 2:57pm

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Last time I saw them in the Savoy the sound was awful

This happens a lot in that place. You'd think they'd have figured it out by now, and realised that it's affecting numbers.

I mentioned poor sounding venues way back at the beginning of this thread... a lot of venue owners/ managers don't realise that a good PA pays off.

madtheory · 14-07-2011 3:04pm

krd wrote: »

Brunker's talent (and what she may have worked at) is not anything you could describe as musical. Her talent is drawing attention to herself. So many "serious" musicians you see around perform and look like, the most boring people you could possibly meet - waiting for a bus.

I agree that a lot of bands are rubbish at entertaining people, and that is a major problem. They're also rubbish at selling themselves, as I said earlier. But that doesn't make Brunker anything other than a deluded self promoter.

Perhaps that is the point you're making, but I've missed it...

krd · 14-07-2011 5:23pm

madtheory wrote: »

I agree that a lot of bands are rubbish at entertaining people, and that is a major problem. They're also rubbish at selling themselves, as I said earlier. But that doesn't make Brunker anything other than a deluded self promoter.

She's deluded if she believes she's a musician. She's deluded if she thinks she could do karoke. That she's a talent show judge is a travesty.

I don't even think she's such an arch self promoter. I think she's one of these people from a particular Irish social set, who just says one morning "I want to write for a newspaper" and viola, she has a column with the Indo.

Delusion in this country is in no short supply. In fact we have it in a painful overabundance.

Please do not encourage people to "sell themselves" - it leads to all sorts of bad things.

If you're rubbish at entertaining people you should not be on a stage full stop.

What makes people entertaining is so hard to quantify. Like guitar virtuosos can be as boring as watching paint dry. Where rank amateurs can be riveting.

If you've ever heard very early live recordings of U2, before they even made their first album - you would be shocked at how ropey they were, Bono could not sing - he was awful. Yet they used to pack places out.

Music Scene In Ireland

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