RTÉ to cease radio transmission on DAB network

Hotblack Desiato · 25-03-2021 1:05pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

On saorview the Bitrate and codec are the same as DAB - 128kb/s Mpeg 48kHz sample rate

Not terrible, but 128kB on standard DAB (old codec) wouldn't be nearly as good as the same bitrate on DAB+, and a mux only running a few channels has bitrate to spare. Different story in the UK with lots of commercial stations crammed in. Some are even in low bitrate mono.

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 1:28pm

Thats correct - some time ago I placed a link to a recording of Heart 80s of UK DAB - here it is again - its only 40k with a 32kHz sample rate. Can the audiophiles here please comment - sounds not to bad to me ! If this is infringing on boards rules, Admins please delete

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlxtaiw8ugekxr/Heart-80s-15022021.wav?dl=0

frozenfrozen · 25-03-2021 1:44pm

listen out for the same effect as in this

https://youtu.be/fZzMXdxbOes?t=69

Losty Dublin · 25-03-2021 1:50pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Thats correct - some time ago I placed a link to a recording of Heart 80s of UK DAB - here it is again - its only 40k with a 32kHz sample rate. Can the audiophiles here please comment - sounds not to bad to me ! If this is infringing on boards rules, Admins please delete

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlxtaiw8ugekxr/Heart-80s-15022021.wav?dl=0

It's somewhat flat alone on that recording but it's grand to playback on my laptop or phone speaker. If I took out my half decent headphones it will begin to struggle; play it back on a decent hifi or a PA and you'd notice a lot of loss in quality and notably volume and body, especially if you had a decent copy of the same track to compare it to.

plodder · 25-03-2021 1:52pm

Maybe the intention in other countries was (or is) to switch off FM and reallocate the spectrum, as happened with analog TV, in the name of making more efficient use of radio spectrum, but if FM wasn't close to capacity, it's hard to see how that would have applied here.

end of the road · 25-03-2021 2:42pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Thats correct - some time ago I placed a link to a recording of Heart 80s of UK DAB - here it is again - its only 40k with a 32kHz sample rate. Can the audiophiles here please comment - sounds not to bad to me ! If this is infringing on boards rules, Admins please delete

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlxtaiw8ugekxr/Heart-80s-15022021.wav?dl=0

it sounds alright but certainly not great, they need to be using 44khz sample rate, whatever about the bitrate.

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 3:40pm

They cannot use 48kHz samplerate as the bitrate is only 40k (would sound like a toilet roll tube)

All in all - this is as good as or better than many FM in my opinion.

I'll get one of Cool FM (but it's only DAB1) leter

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 4:32pm

Got a chance to make some recordings this last half hour - again, if these recordings are infringing the boards t&cs Admins please delete - however with only a few days left of RTE's DAB broadcasts, the recordings may be good for reference

RECORDING 1
6 minutes of 2FM and Jenny Greene - On off segments of FM and DAB for one minute each - all recorded off Clermont Carn - DAB and 97MHz FM - not going to say which is which just yet - could the audiophiles say which is best !!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l74ykemmu3abxx7/RTE%20ALTERNATING.wav?dl=0

RECORDDING 2
Downtown Radio and Owen Larkin recorded of Divis DAB on NI MUX - 128k MP2 @48kHz
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxfkmr6r5g023m1/DOWNTOWN-DAB.wav?dl=0

RECORDING 3
Q Radio from NI Mux - 64k MP2 Mono @24kHz - slots with quality like this give DAB in the UK a bad name (although in fairness the amount of such services are decreasing)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0i8ni2y2bjz6l4p/QRADIO-DAB.wav?dl=0

frozenfrozen · 25-03-2021 4:39pm

A lower quality than B IMO on recording 1 anyway

thanks for taking the time to record those. Seems like the definition of fair use since it's to compare quality just from a broadcast point of view so I hope they can stay.

KildareP · 25-03-2021 5:02pm

The odd minutes on 2FM are from DAB although I have to admit 2FM sounds poor on FM as well.

The Optimod 8400 on FM is being pushed hard which gives that horrible sibilance.
An Optimod 1100 (or possibly now an 1101) processes the DAB feed which doesn't have that sibilance but the low bitrate (for MP2) creates a "watery" swirling sound effect instead.

You can hear the same swirling artifacting on Recording 2 and Recording 3, maybe a bit more noticeable on 3 without the stereo effect.

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 6:10pm

Actually its DAB, FM, DAB, FM, DAB, FM

In my humble opinion the FM is really really poor on 97.0 (they cant even get the balance right. although nothing surprising there)

TAFKAlawhec · 25-03-2021 8:11pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

DAB breaks up and Band III transmitters have much shorter range anyway. The receivers are much more bulky, power hungry and expensive.

The way FM and DAB are broadcast is quite different - FM is strictly a MFN, so for large area coverage, high sites with high power makes sense in numerous cases, with lower powered fillers or individual stations as geography permits. DAB can in theory run as a MFN, but the approach in most cases is as an SFN - which to work properly needs transmissions to stay within a time mask for constructive interference to reinforce reception. AFAIK DAB is restricted to a time mask equivalent to a distance of 76km, meaning that at a reception point within an SFN. In the UK all DAB transmission (apart from a couple of SDL sites) run their ERPs at 10kW maximum, and often have directional characteristics to reduce possible destructive interference areas. When set up properly, it works fine.

As for the receivers, this may have been the case years ago, but less so now. I have a POPnano portable DAB+ receiver (70 x 34 x 17mm excluding belt clip) that works about 4.5 hours on its built in battery that is recharged the same way as any mobile phone does these days with its micro USB socket. You can also get portables from the likes of Argos, Amazon etc. starting from £20 or so, not exactly expensive.

kazoo106 wrote: »

Thats correct - some time ago I placed a link to a recording of Heart 80s of UK DAB - here it is again - its only 40k with a 32kHz sample rate. Can the audiophiles here please comment - sounds not to bad to me ! If this is infringing on boards rules, Admins please delete

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlxtaiw8ugekxr/Heart-80s-15022021.wav?dl=0

On paper, a sampling rate of 32kHz should still be capable of delivering FM quality provided a sufficient bitrate is used. IMHO the HE-AACv2 codec used for lower bitrate DAB+ stations (usually 48kbps and lower) tends to have a somewhat artificial high-end/treble due to the combined use of SBR & PS at such bitrates, but for day to day listening they tend to be little noticed - you have to listen parallel to an uncompressed version of the same audio to definitely notice, and if you're using anything other than a hi-fi setup the hardware reproduction will probably mask much of the deficiency.

I can't receive (on a portable at least) the SDL ensemble where I live, but the digitalbitrate.com website indicates that the BFBS station on there is pushing out a sample rate of 48kHz with a bitrate of 24kbps inc. SBR & PS!

I can only assume that it either sounds very "metallic" or that the encoder in use should be rolled out elsewhere if it's that good.

radioguru02 · 25-03-2021 8:53pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Actually its DAB, FM, DAB, FM, DAB, FM

In my humble opinion the FM is really really poor on 97.0 (they cant even get the balance right. although nothing surprising there)

FM is not amazing, but the DAB is worse

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 9:03pm

I'll get a bfbs sample up soon, in my opinion any bitrates below 64k need to be sampled at 32kHz with ps.
I'd go so far as even include 64k at that sample rate and 48khz from 72k up

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 9:47pm

Here is a short sample of BFBS - it's rough as hell and should be sampled at 32kHz not 48
No wonder DAB in the UK gets such a slashing for quality.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tmccgh7jv4m88j/BFBS.wav?dl=0

TAFKAlawhec · 25-03-2021 10:07pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Here is a short sample of BFBS - it's rough as hell and should be sampled at 32kHz not 48
No wonder DAB in the UK gets such a slashing for quality.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tmccgh7jv4m88j/BFBS.wav?dl=0

Thanks, it sounded like I expected it to be, quite "watery" and metallic at the high audio frequency end. An additional 8kbps certainly wouldn't go amiss (I'm not sure how much capacity there is left on the SDL ensemble, but I think it's not completely full), but it depends I guess on how much SSVC, BFBS' owners, can afford.

Incidently on the same ensemble both Fun Kids UK & Boom Radio are also 24kbps, albeit both in mono - Boom uses a 48kHz sampling rate while Fun Kids (sensibly) is 32kHz.

On the D1 ensemble, LBC News is the only 24kbps service on there, but limits its sampling rate to 32kHz mono and is really a speech only service, so less dynamic range and can get away with a lesser bit rate in return.

It's interesting to see the bitrates used in Continental Europe for their DAB+ services, HE-AACv1 is used a lot more than v2 so bitrates are higher to compensate. OTOH Australia, in the cities where DAB+ is broadcast, seems to be largely going down the UK route of cramming in stations at the somewhat expense of audio quality.

Hotblack Desiato · 25-03-2021 11:07pm

plodder wrote: »

Maybe the intention in other countries was (or is) to switch off FM and reallocate the spectrum, as happened with analog TV, in the name of making more efficient use of radio spectrum, but if FM wasn't close to capacity, it's hard to see how that would have applied here.

There's no other useful application I know of for Band II (88-108MHz) whereas there was a fairly lucrative one for the high UHF TV frequencies (mobile internet).

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

AFAIK DAB is restricted to a time mask equivalent to a distance of 76km, meaning that at a reception point within an SFN. In the UK all DAB transmission (apart from a couple of SDL sites) run their ERPs at 10kW maximum, and often have directional characteristics to reduce possible destructive interference areas. When set up properly, it works fine.

You still need more sites than FM, so rolling out nationwide DAB coverage would have been far from cheap, and the lack of interest from commercial stations here made it pointless anyway.

As for the receivers, this may have been the case years ago, but less so now. I have a POPnano portable DAB+ receiver (70 x 34 x 17mm excluding belt clip) that works about 4.5 hours on its built in battery that is recharged the same way as any mobile phone does these days with its micro USB socket. You can also get portables from the likes of Argos, Amazon etc. starting from £20 or so, not exactly expensive.

FM receivers are still a lot more compact, lower power and cheaper.
4.5 hours isn't even a day (or a decent walk or hike, for some people). An equivalent FM speakerless receiver would be about a quarter of the volume and run for weeks on two AAA cells.

Really the only advantage left for DAB is the possibility of more stations, but there isn't the advertising income or licence fee in the Republic to sustain more stations - even in the nation's biggest advertising market, Phamtom / TXFM failed and nobody has taken over its slot.

end of the road · 25-03-2021 11:49pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There's no other useful application I know of for Band II (88-108MHz) whereas there was a fairly lucrative one for the high UHF TV frequencies (mobile internet).

You still need more sites than FM, so rolling out nationwide DAB coverage would have been far from cheap, and the lack of interest from commercial stations here made it pointless anyway.

FM receivers are still a lot more compact, lower power and cheaper.
4.5 hours isn't even a day (or a decent walk or hike, for some people). An equivalent FM speakerless receiver would be about a quarter of the volume and run for weeks on two AAA cells.

Really the only advantage left for DAB is the possibility of more stations, but there isn't the advertising income or licence fee in the Republic to sustain more stations - even in the nation's biggest advertising market, Phamtom / TXFM failed and nobody has taken over its slot.

there isn't the advertising to support the current high cost model radio operates under in this country certainly, but whether there would be for a low cost model where the stations decide their own business model rather then the BAI, is currently unknown.
phantom/tx fm was expected to operate the same as a full service ILR, which was never going to be sustainable, so the fact it failed of itself doesn't prove that more stations under a modernised model may not work, but simply proves small scale stations cannot work within the old outdated model we currently have because the costs are out of whack.

TAFKAlawhec · 26-03-2021 7:04pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You still need more sites than FM, so rolling out nationwide DAB coverage would have been far from cheap, and the lack of interest from commercial stations here made it pointless anyway.

The requirement for more sites can be negated by the reduction of electricity required by transmitters, as well as many stations only needing one TX as opposed to one TX per station. For example, the BBC have mentioned in the past as how their UK DAB SFN has lower transmission costs than their FM network of four national FM stations.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

FM receivers are still a lot more compact, lower power and cheaper.
4.5 hours isn't even a day (or a decent walk or hike, for some people). An equivalent FM speakerless receiver would be about a quarter of the volume and run for weeks on two AAA cells.

I've attached a picture of the POPnano next to a AA battery - it's hardly bulky and any decent FM only or FM/MW radio (e.g. Sony) will likely be bigger than this. Personally, the only receiver I've ever owned that was smaller than it was an old Coca-Cola FM earpiece that ran on a CR2025 battery, and lets just say it wasn't the greatest of radios. Also, the 4.5 hour battery life is fine for the majority of people - it's easy to recharge the same way any mobile phone is, and most people are unlikely listen using earphones continuously for 4+ hours. In the unusual event one might do, you can simply carry a small portable battery that is used for charging mobile phones with you etc. (you can get one for a pound up north here in Poundland, so I'll assume there's something similar in Dealz). In any case, you can get "bigger" DAB handheld radios that are the equivalent size of their analogue counterparts that have longer battery life.

There are still some technical criticisms that can be made on DAB/DAB+, but some that held true 20 or even 10 years ago - in particular the size of receivers and their cost - are rendered moot these days, while battery consumption in receivers - while not as good as receiving analogue broadcasts - is a lot better than back in the 00's and continues to improve.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Really the only advantage left for DAB is the possibility of more stations, but there isn't the advertising income or licence fee in the Republic to sustain more stations - even in the nation's biggest advertising market, Phamtom / TXFM failed and nobody has taken over its slot.

IMHO it is not so much the lack of advertising income but rather the model of regulation for commercial radio in the Republic of Ireland that is the problem. If we take for example Norway, a country that has about only 400,000 more people than the RoI and a landmass of more than five times as well, they have essentially two national ensembles (the NRK ensemble is regionalised, but has essentially the same coverage area as the national commercial ensemble) carrying over 30 different stations covering the breadth from Oslo to Longyearbyen on Svlabard to the Russian border, with additional stations on local ensembles (usually in the more populated areas) and a second national commercial ensemble planned to be rolled out. Denmark & Switzerland are also interesting cases to look at regarding their DAB+ networks, albeit with slightly larger populations again and smaller land mass (though CH's geography is troublesome in terms of terrestrial coverage).

The Irish commercial radio laws and regulations have not evolved much over the last 30 years or so, mandating minimum speech content being one of the biggest regulatory burdens on FM stations in the country. I suspect that the 105.2 MHz frequency in the Dublin area would be brought back to life were much looser conditions on their "agreement" with the BAI for broadcasting were allowed. Wherever the current regulations concerning commercial broadcast radio in the country are either still relevant, not fit for purpouse or somewhere in between is open for debate - but if the Republic was to pursue a radio regulatory environment more in line with much of continental Europe or even the UK, an environment for a digital radio platform to evolve in the country would be more likely IMO.

Antenna · 26-03-2021 10:26pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Just noticing

Stereo on RTE Gold on Saorview is the opposite way around to DAB

Now in this day and age I would not have thought that anything analog should be in the audio chain !!!

Last weekend came across the Irish film 'I Went Down' (1997) on RTE TV via Saorview (though I assume Sky etc were as I describe).
Audio was mono but the Left and Right channels were in antiphase!
The antiphase led to a unnatural widened effect between both speakers

Anyone know if this was an accident or deliberate?

Anyone know if this film's audio was mono sound in the first place, and this antiphase between left and right was someone's (bad) idea of some sort of fake stereo sound?

I tried mixing L and R to mono to see what happened, replicating the effect of someone with a mono sound TV, or watching via an analogue modulator (no stereo) receiving this audio. The result very low audio (so turned volume way up) the audio had very pronounced swirling effects, alien sounding.

The sound during ad breaks was normal.

Brian CivilEng · 31-03-2021 10:12am

It's goodbye DAB day.

I've secured alternative ways to continue listening, but it kind of feels like the end of an era. I will no longer listen to any broadcast radio show. Its all streaming now.

Insidethetent · 31-03-2021 10:27am

Does anyone know when they're switching off DAB today?

Glaceon · 31-03-2021 11:04am

Looks like they pulled the plug at 11. All stations gone silent but the carrier is still present.

JDxtra · 31-03-2021 11:06am

Gone.

yrreg0850 · 31-03-2021 11:14am

It should be a case of goodbye RTE . If enough carry this out their advertisers might pay attention.

Insidethetent · 31-03-2021 11:18am

Have to admit to being saddened to lose the DAB service, it was great on my walkman, lovely quality sound and good music on GOLD.

Former Former Former · 31-03-2021 11:22am

yrreg0850 wrote: »

It should be a case of goodbye RTE . If enough carry this out their advertisers might pay attention.

If every single person who was listening via DAB never listened to RTE again, it wouldn't even make a ripple in the overall numbers. Advertisers wouldn't even notice, let alone care.

Glaceon · 31-03-2021 11:31am

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

I've attached a picture of the POPnano next to a AA battery - it's hardly bulky and any decent FM only or FM/MW radio (e.g. Sony) will likely be bigger than this. Personally, the only receiver I've ever owned that was smaller than it was an old Coca-Cola FM earpiece that ran on a CR2025 battery, and lets just say it wasn't the greatest of radios. Also, the 4.5 hour battery life is fine for the majority of people - it's easy to recharge the same way any mobile phone is, and most people are unlikely listen using earphones continuously for 4+ hours. In the unusual event one might do, you can simply carry a small portable battery that is used for charging mobile phones with you etc. (you can get one for a pound up north here in Poundland, so I'll assume there's something similar in Dealz). In any case, you can get "bigger" DAB handheld radios that are the equivalent size of their analogue counterparts that have longer battery life.

I have the same one myself, albeit in black. I used it a lot on my commute to work (when that was still a thing!) and it did the job. It's more awkward on FM because it has no presets so I'm not sure if I'll keep using it now that DAB is gone here.

Declan A Walsh · 31-03-2021 11:44am

Glaceon wrote: »

Looks like they pulled the plug at 11. All stations gone silent but the carrier is still present.

Just to remind people that all RTE's digital stations are still running via all the other platforms as before, such as online (including Radio Garden) and digital television providers. Gone from DAB, but not closed down as stations.

Brian CivilEng · 31-03-2021 11:53am

I missed the moment, the radio just didn't come back on after I finished a work call.

Streaming now.

kazoo106 · 31-03-2021 12:10pm

Nice of them to put the message up "as Gaeilge" for RnaG

Declan A Walsh · 31-03-2021 12:12pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Nice of them to put the message up "as Gaeilge" for RnaG

Careful - you might get a few posters going there!

ITV2 · 31-03-2021 3:10pm

anyone when they will switch the TXs off, my car keeps switching to RTE R1 on dab for some reason so it's impossible to listen to RTE1 on FM.

galtee boy · 31-03-2021 3:40pm

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

It's goodbye DAB day.

I've secured alternative ways to continue listening, but it kind of feels like the end of an era. I will no longer listen to any broadcast radio show. Its all streaming now.

I bought one of those Alexa Echo Auto devices, best thing ever for the car. No need to touch a button or control on the car, just say, Alexa play BBC Radio 4 or Alexa, play RTE GOLD and hey presto, you're listening. Also, I've noticed that channel changing is much faster than doing it on my home Alexa unit.

twinklerunner · 31-03-2021 4:54pm

galtee boy wrote: »

I bought one of those Alexa Echo Auto devices, best thing ever for the car. No need to touch a button or control on the car, just say, Alexa play BBC Radio 4 or Alexa, play RTE GOLD and hey presto, you're listening. Also, I've noticed that channel changing is much faster than doing it on my home Alexa unit.

I must look into that. I listen to BBC via the BBC Sounds app on my phone - that sounds a better option.

Andy454 · 31-03-2021 5:56pm

Declan A Walsh wrote: »

. Gone from DAB, but not closed down as stations.

But it says “this service has closed” on all the stations....

Dindane · 31-03-2021 5:58pm

So is any DAB station able to be picked up in Ireland now?

end of the road · 31-03-2021 6:12pm

Andy454 wrote: »

But it says “this service has closed” on all the stations....

yes, but that is just on the dab service.
they are still broadcasting online and on saorview etc.

Andy454 · 31-03-2021 6:14pm

ITV2 wrote: »

anyone when they will switch the TXs off, my car keeps switching to RTE R1 on dab for some reason so it's impossible to listen to RTE1 on FM.

I mentioned this in a previous comment - car radios are programmed to pick up DAB “where available”.....

Larbre34 · 31-03-2021 6:23pm

Dindane wrote: »

So is any DAB station able to be picked up in Ireland now?

No. There is no broadcast network any longer.

plodder · 31-03-2021 6:34pm

ITV2 wrote: »

anyone when they will switch the TXs off, my car keeps switching to RTE R1 on dab for some reason so it's impossible to listen to RTE1 on FM.

Exact same problem here. You couldn't make it up.

I don't know which is worse: the car that can't disable DAB, or RTE for broadcasting silence on their DAB channels.

galtee boy · 31-03-2021 7:05pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

No. There is no broadcast network any longer.

I hope I don't get into trouble for this, but isn't there a pirate DAB network in various parts of Ireland called Freedab? I think its on Mux 5A.

Jim_Hodge · 31-03-2021 9:06pm

ITV2 wrote: »

anyone when they will switch the TXs off, my car keeps switching to RTE R1 on dab for some reason so it's impossible to listen to RTE1 on FM.

I just select FM mode on the radio menu. Retune the channel to an FM station and save it. Look in the user's manual.

That said, I always listened to RTE Gold and nothing's filling the void.

Dindane · 31-03-2021 10:07pm

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

I just select FM mode on the radio menu. Retune the channel to an FM station and save it. Look in the user's manual.

That said, I always listened to RTE Gold and nothing's filling the void.

BBC Radio 2?

plodder · 31-03-2021 10:26pm

Andy454 wrote: »

I mentioned this in a previous comment - car radios are programmed to pick up DAB “where available”.....

Yes, and DAB is technically still available for RTE 1 etc. It's just dead air, but the radio doesn't know that. If they hadn't tried to be so clever with it, these radios would just have automatically retuned to FM and most owners wouldn't even notice. In my wife's car you can disable DAB completely, but in another car it does not appear to be possible.

The Spare Bowler · 31-03-2021 11:03pm

RTÉ will regret closing the DAB channels, because later this year a DAB/ DAB+ multiplex will start in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford. It will have 10 radio stations they will broadcast in DAB and DAB+. It’s coverage will grow to the whole country eventually, it will be legal and licensed. They advertised for stations and were oversubscribed. As all new DAB radios and cars must have DAB+, so eventually the DAB service will stop and it will only be on DAB+. I contacted a Dublin station today and they told me that they hope to be on DAB+ later this year. So don’t give up it’s going to get a lot better later this year.

JDxtra · 31-03-2021 11:07pm

Now that DAB is gone, it's a good time for a fresh start. There is very limited value in a new provider doing a dual broadcast of DAB/DAB+. They should just go with DAB+ and an expanded list of services.

rogue-entity · 31-03-2021 11:17pm

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

I did have a DAB radio for a time, but Smart Speakers (Alexa, google et al) are just better.

Unless you're in your car :P

KildareP wrote: »

DAB+ would of course improve matters, but when you look at the regulatory framework (or lack thereof), a general unwillingness for anyone else to partner up to share costs of expanding coverage, our relatively small population and density compared to elsewhere in Europe to support niche services, does it make sense to continue ahead?

I'm skeptical of that claim, RTE's license for Digital Radio Broadcasting comes from it's own dedicated section of the Broadcasting Act of 2009, Licences for other operators are provided for elsewhere in the Act but it is entirely up to the BAI to offer said licence and they are neither offering nor accepting requests so far as I know.

In 2012 I reached out to Comreg asking for a licence to run a DAB multiplex and was told I need to take it up with the BAI as they are solely responsible for the licensing of radio broadcasting (digital or otherwise). When I then spoke to the BAI I was told that they only deal with content providers (i.e. radio stations) and not service providers.
So there was (and unless that changed, is) no method or means to obtain a licence and I know I'm far from the only person interested in this endeavour.

Pete Best wrote: »

Yep, there were trial multiplexes in Cork and the southeast that ran for quite a few years but they’ve since closed down.

Those multiplexes took advantage of Comreg's Test & Trial service which cannot be used to run a commercial service, and the operators of one of these was unable to obtain a licence to run the service full-time.

KReid wrote: »

There's nothing stopping new stations being broadcast online as opposed to on DAB.

In the short term, no, in the long run, here are a few things:

Online streaming is (barring a few exceptions) unscaleable and the costs quickly become prohibitive (an order of magnitude more than it would cost to run an FM or DAB network covering the same listenership)
Once you become noticed, and come to the attention of IMRO/PPI, those become new costs that (quite a few) stations don't pay and then you'll end up implementing geoblocking on top of that (which takes away one of the touted benefits of online services - the means to listen to a wider choice of stations)
You're banking on being able to convince advertisers to pay to advertise on your streamed broadcast and I'm skeptical of that as a viable market

KReid wrote: »

With internet coverage increasing every day and the rollout of 4g/5g, DAB seems totally irrelevant here. As someone else said, DAB is good technology, but it came between FM and Online Listening.

it might be increasing in suburban areas but I've yet to travel the length of the M8/M9 and have a 4G signal the entire duration, so, streaming is a non-starter.

KReid wrote: »

If I was involved in radio station here, I wouldn't be bothered by this, an online app that is transferable between Website/Phone/Smart Speaker is a far superior product.

The problem is a bit like the M50, when you're driving to the airport at 3am you could say "it's a fine road, no delays" but make that same trip during the morning rush and you'll be disappointed.

KReid wrote: »

I feel we will end up almost entirely on Internet Based streaming by 2030.

Which would be the death of radio in Ireland (at worst) or lead to no significant change to the status quo (at best)

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

It was nothing to do with RTE not wanting to compete. They were very enthusiastic about DAB but the commercial FM stations had no interest or even saw it as a commercial threat, brining more competitors into their FM fiefdoms.

Precisely, and for the moment, they don't take streaming seriously.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Like it or not, streaming services are where it’s at. We’ve relatively little issue steaming in cars, and that will get better and better as time goes on.

I disagree in part for the reasons I mentioned above. I'll grant you that paid services like Spotify are "where it's at" as the phone with a Bluetooth (or AUX jack connection) replace the stack of CDs in the glovebox but that's a different animal from providing a live streaming radio station. But I will add that your experience with streaming while out-and-about is not universal. There's areas of Waterford where I can't even get a 2G signal, nevermind 4G and you can forget about maintaining a constant internet connection traveling up the motorway, nevermind the national roads; the national TETRA network has better coverage.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

You’ve fairly ubiquitous fast, affordable broadband and a massive rural broadband scheme rolling out too and couple that with virtually 100% smartphone ownership.

Except bandwidth is neither free nor cheap, and the broadcaster is the one that has to pay for each and every listener, the cost of running a broadcasting transmitter is much less expensive.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Analog FM is likely to be on air for decades yet. It’s simple, ubiquitous, produces decent quality and very competent at what it does.

It's also cheap to setup and to run; the problem is when you want to launch a radio station and assuming there is a frequency available you're going to be told no licence is available. If you start an online station, that's cheap if you have at most 700 listeners (assuming 128k MP3 and an average of 8hrs of listening per day) but it quickly becomes painfully expensive.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

If we could spin up some cheap, local DAB infrastructure, maybe it might have done something but that's not how it's evolved and there was plenty of commercial and non-commercial effort put into doing that over the last few years and all of it has amounted to nought.

Except we can, and, we could for about the same price as it would cost to get started on FM but it's less about the financial cost and more about the technical cost as it isn't as simple as turning on a transmitter.

I'm saddened by the loss of RTE's DAB service, I'd pick it up a fair distance out from the airport and it was enjoyable listening, there's nothing else on FM of interest. At this point I'm rather tempted to pick up a HackRF board, another Raspberry Pi to have an in-car Mux since the stations I like are at least still alive

larchill · 31-03-2021 11:25pm

Aye, noticed that Gold & Radio 1 went silent around mid day alright. Carrier is obviously still there though. Will these be available on FM now?

Declan A Walsh · 31-03-2021 11:35pm

larchill wrote: »

Aye, noticed that Gold & Radio 1 went silent around mid day alright. Carrier is obviously still there though. Will these be available on FM now?

If you mean RTE Radio 1 (presumably), it has always been available on FM!

As regards, RTE Gold, 2XM, RTE Pulse and all RTE's other digital only stations, they are still available online (try Radio Garden for example) and on digital tv platforms like Saorview and Virgin Media.

RTÉ to cease radio transmission on DAB network

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