RTÉ to cease radio transmission on DAB network

KildareP · 18-03-2021 2:10pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Just noticing

Stereo on RTE Gold on Saorview is the opposite way around to DAB

Now in this day and age I would not have thought that anything analog should be in the audio chain !!!

With RTÉ, who knows!

Then again, quite a number of Dublin stations are guilty of operating reversed stereo channels for many, many years, or having analogue distortion present on their audio (Communicorp, looking at you!!

)

yrreg0850 · 18-03-2021 3:59pm

Antenna wrote: »

2rn couldn't just charge 'cost price' to RTE (its parent company) for its DAB as in effect other broadcasters that use 2rn (Today FM, Newstalk, VM and others) would be unhappy by in effect subsidising RTE's DAB.
They have to be seen as treating all broadcast customers equally in terms of costings and service levels etc, so a far different situation from the Century Radio scenario many years ago.

They obviously didn't learn from the mess they made when they privatized Telecom /eir or whatever it is now called.
There was a situation where Telecom retained the infrastructure and, any other telecomms company who wished to supply a landline telephone service had to deal with telecomm even they were competitors.

I know of cases where other suppliers were given a limited time slot each week to connect their subscribers to the eircom owned network--so much for competition.

NeuralNetwork · 18-03-2021 4:03pm

iPhone integration is slick where CarPlay is implemented properly.

Most of the issue is where car makers kept trying to reinvent the wheel with awful touch interfaces that keep trying to tread phones like they’re MP3 players from 2003.

The car industry dragged its feet on a lot of this stuff by trying to provide software they’re incapable of producing.

Both Android Auto & Apple Car Play more or less expect the car to just be a dumb display and sound system and the phone does everything.

plodder · 19-03-2021 4:43pm

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

iPhone integration is slick where CarPlay is implemented properly.

Most of the issue is where car makers kept trying to reinvent the wheel with awful touch interfaces that keep trying to tread phones like they’re MP3 players from 2003.

I'm surprised that touch screen interfaces are allowed in cars. They are a safety hazard imo. My wife drives a three year old Opel and it amazes me how much badly implemented technology is in it.

The car industry dragged its feet on a lot of this stuff by trying to provide software they’re incapable of producing.
Both Android Auto & Apple Car Play more or less expect the car to just be a dumb display and sound system and the phone does everything.

I imagine the auto industry isn't happy about losing control of these platforms to the Google and Apple behemoths either, but as you pointed out, the auto industry doesn't have a clue how to write software.

NeuralNetwork · 19-03-2021 6:13pm

From a car manufacturer's point of view, producing a dumb terminal makes far more sense than trying to build complex software.

I've a 2017 Toyota that has TWITTER on the touch screen. I mean who in their right mind would allow someone to send tweets on the dashboard. It makes no sense.

It has an ability to install apps, all of which are useless or awful and the interface for the sound system, including the radio is just hideous and it's all touch screen based, which means you can't really do anything without looking at it.

The only thing that's any good on it is the toggle buttons on the steering wheel and the display on the dashboard itself i.e. on the meter in the middle of the dash.

The rest is all useless.

From my point of view in that car, whether its DAB+ or an bluetooth linked smartphone, the car's interface is just diabolical for all of them.

Basically I end up controlling the music with Siri mostly.

brandonviewer · 20-03-2021 11:20pm

,perfect timing from Aldi. They are advertising DAB radios for sale next week

Hotblack Desiato · 21-03-2021 1:18am

Andy454 wrote: »

It is illegal to hold or touch a phone while driving

It's illegal to hold a phone. It's not illegal to touch a phone in a mount - which is no different to touching a touchscreen built into the car.

Andy454 · 24-03-2021 11:23am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's not illegal to touch a phone in a mount .

As long as you do not become distracted from the road.

Selecting an internet radio station on your phone involves far more than just swiping to answer a call or pressing a button to hang up.

On a 2020 car, I can currently move between DAB radio stations by simply flicking a button up and down on the steering wheel this is not the case with streaming from the phone and is fine if you set off with just the station you want set up.

RSA try to discourage people from phone use while driving, not increase it.

Based in Maynooth, FM reception is quite poor, there is a lot of dropping out and interference, DAB on the other hand works perfectly.

Widescreen · 24-03-2021 11:34am

No doubt they'll lose listeners.

I think whether it's your connected ipod, pre set FM radio stations or even a loaded cd, most people will select one of those first when driving. Rather than have to select the rte player and your chosen digital station on your phone then have to press couple of times to connect etc.

I like bbc radio 2 and can listen in my car but how often do I even think of listening to it, not too often as per above reasons.

Not having DAB is a backward step in my view although I know most people here don't think so.

SPDUB · 24-03-2021 2:40pm

brandonviewer wrote: »

,perfect timing from Aldi. They are advertising DAB radios for sale next week

Trailer for Liveline said there would be an item about shops still selling DAB radio today

thejuggler · 24-03-2021 8:48pm

"Insidethetent;&#8221 wrote:

RTE decides to close the DAB network (4/5x transmitters in-situ and one sitting unpowered in a rack) for RTE cost containment. Staff (all paid) remain on payroll, studios remain, transmitters/transmission/links remain.

.

Where was the unused transmitter meant to serve? Or was it a spare for backup purposes?

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 12:09am

Think it was Mullaghanish

Andy454 · 25-03-2021 9:02am

https://www.tvcorner.com/en/audio-video-accessories/radio-tuner/DAB/technisat-bike-Digitradio1.php

There is still nice DAB radios being developed.
I note RTE has now returned to profitability, is the switch off still necessary?

plodder · 25-03-2021 9:30am

brandonviewer wrote: »

,perfect timing from Aldi. They are advertising DAB radios for sale next week

That's gas. https://www.aldi.ie/brown-wooden-dab-%26-fm-radio/p/708839437774400

Did you hear the one about the wooden DAB radio?

It wooden work (in Ireland)

Technocentral · 25-03-2021 10:58am

I have a DAB/Internet radio since 2010, the problem with DAB is most people can see and appreciate the quality difference between SD and HD video but not hear the difference between FM and DAB so no incentive to buy and listen to DAB.

Hotblack Desiato · 25-03-2021 11:49am

Hilarious

DAB was not introduced to improve sound quality. Just look at the low bitrates and ancient codecs in use.

Technocentral · 25-03-2021 11:53am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Hilarious

DAB was not introduced to improve sound quality. Just look at the low bitrates and ancient codecs in use.

What were the reasons the vast majority of people should have bought DAB receivers then?

end of the road · 25-03-2021 12:24pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Hilarious

DAB was not introduced to improve sound quality. Just look at the low bitrates and ancient codecs in use.

that's standard dab, which i think would get universal agreement that it should not be used in ireland, mp2 is a long time passed it's sell by date.dab+ on the other hand does use a much more modern format, mp4.

the uk which does use standard dab still is slowly moving away from it, the process is slow but it will get there, lots of dab+ services there currently.

Technocentral wrote: »

What were the reasons the vast majority of people should have bought DAB receivers then?

the incentive is generally a greater choice of stations available, that's really why for example, the uk population moved more and more to it.
the quality argument was only really a thing at the start but has mostly gone as nobody buys that 80k mp2 is quality (all be it thankfully there is a slow move away from standard dab) to dab+.

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 12:29pm

On saorview the Bitrate and codec are the same as DAB - 128kb/s Mpeg 48kHz sample rate

Their webstreams though are horrid - 96kb/s and a 32kHz sample rate

Hotblack Desiato · 25-03-2021 1:01pm

Technocentral wrote: »

What were the reasons the vast majority of people should have bought DAB receivers then?

For the vast majority of people, no reason at all.

A good FM signal is pretty much as good as analogue audio gets. And it has to get pretty bad before it becomes unlistenable. DAB breaks up and Band III transmitters have much shorter range anyway. The receivers are much more bulky, power hungry and expensive.

There's the theoretical possibility of more stations, but the FM band isn't full anywhere in Ireland and there is no advertising or funding to provide for more content anyway. That's why the RTE digital stations are still "tests" with no ads run on a shoestring.

Hotblack Desiato · 25-03-2021 1:05pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

On saorview the Bitrate and codec are the same as DAB - 128kb/s Mpeg 48kHz sample rate

Not terrible, but 128kB on standard DAB (old codec) wouldn't be nearly as good as the same bitrate on DAB+, and a mux only running a few channels has bitrate to spare. Different story in the UK with lots of commercial stations crammed in. Some are even in low bitrate mono.

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 1:28pm

Thats correct - some time ago I placed a link to a recording of Heart 80s of UK DAB - here it is again - its only 40k with a 32kHz sample rate. Can the audiophiles here please comment - sounds not to bad to me ! If this is infringing on boards rules, Admins please delete

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlxtaiw8ugekxr/Heart-80s-15022021.wav?dl=0

frozenfrozen · 25-03-2021 1:44pm

listen out for the same effect as in this

https://youtu.be/fZzMXdxbOes?t=69

Losty Dublin · 25-03-2021 1:50pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Thats correct - some time ago I placed a link to a recording of Heart 80s of UK DAB - here it is again - its only 40k with a 32kHz sample rate. Can the audiophiles here please comment - sounds not to bad to me ! If this is infringing on boards rules, Admins please delete

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlxtaiw8ugekxr/Heart-80s-15022021.wav?dl=0

It's somewhat flat alone on that recording but it's grand to playback on my laptop or phone speaker. If I took out my half decent headphones it will begin to struggle; play it back on a decent hifi or a PA and you'd notice a lot of loss in quality and notably volume and body, especially if you had a decent copy of the same track to compare it to.

plodder · 25-03-2021 1:52pm

Maybe the intention in other countries was (or is) to switch off FM and reallocate the spectrum, as happened with analog TV, in the name of making more efficient use of radio spectrum, but if FM wasn't close to capacity, it's hard to see how that would have applied here.

end of the road · 25-03-2021 2:42pm

kazoo106 wrote: »

Thats correct - some time ago I placed a link to a recording of Heart 80s of UK DAB - here it is again - its only 40k with a 32kHz sample rate. Can the audiophiles here please comment - sounds not to bad to me ! If this is infringing on boards rules, Admins please delete

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlxtaiw8ugekxr/Heart-80s-15022021.wav?dl=0

it sounds alright but certainly not great, they need to be using 44khz sample rate, whatever about the bitrate.

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 3:40pm

They cannot use 48kHz samplerate as the bitrate is only 40k (would sound like a toilet roll tube)

All in all - this is as good as or better than many FM in my opinion.

I'll get one of Cool FM (but it's only DAB1) leter

kazoo106 · 25-03-2021 4:32pm

Got a chance to make some recordings this last half hour - again, if these recordings are infringing the boards t&cs Admins please delete - however with only a few days left of RTE's DAB broadcasts, the recordings may be good for reference

RECORDING 1
6 minutes of 2FM and Jenny Greene - On off segments of FM and DAB for one minute each - all recorded off Clermont Carn - DAB and 97MHz FM - not going to say which is which just yet - could the audiophiles say which is best !!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l74ykemmu3abxx7/RTE%20ALTERNATING.wav?dl=0

RECORDDING 2
Downtown Radio and Owen Larkin recorded of Divis DAB on NI MUX - 128k MP2 @48kHz
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxfkmr6r5g023m1/DOWNTOWN-DAB.wav?dl=0

RECORDING 3
Q Radio from NI Mux - 64k MP2 Mono @24kHz - slots with quality like this give DAB in the UK a bad name (although in fairness the amount of such services are decreasing)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0i8ni2y2bjz6l4p/QRADIO-DAB.wav?dl=0

frozenfrozen · 25-03-2021 4:39pm

A lower quality than B IMO on recording 1 anyway

thanks for taking the time to record those. Seems like the definition of fair use since it's to compare quality just from a broadcast point of view so I hope they can stay.

KildareP · 25-03-2021 5:02pm

The odd minutes on 2FM are from DAB although I have to admit 2FM sounds poor on FM as well.

The Optimod 8400 on FM is being pushed hard which gives that horrible sibilance.
An Optimod 1100 (or possibly now an 1101) processes the DAB feed which doesn't have that sibilance but the low bitrate (for MP2) creates a "watery" swirling sound effect instead.

You can hear the same swirling artifacting on Recording 2 and Recording 3, maybe a bit more noticeable on 3 without the stereo effect.

RTÉ to cease radio transmission on DAB network

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