Men Bashing and Women Saluting

sportsfan90 · 20-03-2019 3:27pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Maybe they are not that easily offended.

I know nothing about the two women except for looking at the articles linked in the OP and I'm sure they wouldn't put anything in print that would deliberately embarrass or belittle their partners or hurt them in any way, so you're probably right that the their partners are not easily offended.

But I think the point is that had a man wrote a similar article with unfunny stereotypes about a female partner (eg she takes ages to get ready, terrible driver, buys too many clothes/shoes, makes me crap dinners), they would rightly be called out for sexism. And I don't think there'd be any comments suggesting that maybe his partner isn't easily offended and she's probably ok with her fella putting out such drivel in a national paper.

Church on Tuesday · 20-03-2019 3:28pm

Grayson wrote: »

You do realise that's the definition of whataboutery.

saying someone can't complain about something here because something worse is happening elsewhere.

It's irrelevant.

The issue is that these women need to cop themselves on.

rapul · 20-03-2019 3:29pm

I've read this whole thread and this is exactly what I hate about society these days, everyone out to get each other, cop on. I'm a single father and do everything and I mean everything and I enjoy it, so everyone stop bitching and grow up, there's worse problems in the world let alone our own country without trying to bring each other down, a sad sad read people.

Gimme A Pound · 20-03-2019 3:31pm

It's despicable when people ridicule their partners. And any women whom I know that moan about men... cannot live without a man. They'd die rather than be single.

nullzero wrote: »

I applaud your consistency.
On every occasion I have encountered you on this site you have offered consistently insipid opinions on every topic imaginable.

And with such hostility. Imagine being that angry.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 20-03-2019 3:31pm

nullzero wrote: »

What are you banging on about?

Good Lord someone's cranky and hard of reading today

Deebles McBeebles · 20-03-2019 3:32pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I had a google of female binmen
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-business/10431062/Im-the-only-one-of-my-friends-doing-a-job-like-this-my-life-as-a-bin-lady.html

that's all i got

Ahem, female binperson

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-03-2019 3:45pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Yes, this is true.

I’m a fairly girly girl but not really, really girly. I remember a full table of female colleagues being totally aghast at my admission that I don’t buy a new dress for every single wedding I’m invited to. I said I had a rotation that I occasionally added a new dress to and that if two consecutive weddings had different crowds at them that I’d happily wear the same dress at two weddings in a row. Aghast, they were. I’m not exaggerating. “What if someone sees from photos on Facebook that you wore the same dress to two weddings?” asked they. Says me “I doubt anyone will be looking at me that closely and if they do notice, well I pick dresses that suit me so it doesn’t bother me.” Them - still totally aghast. We moved on...

nullzero · 20-03-2019 3:45pm

Kole Alive Fingertip wrote: »

Good Lord someone's cranky and hard of reading today

Hard of reading?

I'm wondering why I'm expected to do as you outlined? I'm not the one being paid to work as a journalist, I'm offering an opinion on the shocking level of supposed journalism offered up by the writers in question.

Projecting stupidity and anger onto somebody suggests an inability to interact and discuss things at an adult level.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 20-03-2019 3:51pm

recedite wrote: »

The lorry does the lifting.
I think maybe the problem for the ladies is more about being out in the rain, following a stinking lorry, and getting covered in a stinky bin smell.

Nurses are mostly women and there are plenty of bad smells and substances to deal with in that job. Cleaners appear to be mostly women too. Again, bad smells and physically quite heavy work. It’s disingenuous to suggest that women rarely work in jobs that involve visceral unpleasantness.

Mrsmum · 20-03-2019 3:53pm

IK09 wrote: »

Im a single Dad. Who do you think takes care of my household?

And I'm sure in households with single women, they do actually you know put out the bins but the way men go on you'd swear women never touch these dirty jobs.
The point of the articles is about when men and women live together, not alone, who does the bulk of the everyday, mundane but necessary household chores as opposed to once in blue moon tasks fall to and who knows all the details of the household for every member of the family in their head.

Deebles McBeebles · 20-03-2019 3:55pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

And I'm sure in households with single women, they do actually you know put out the bins but the way men go on you'd swear women never touch these dirty jobs.
The point of the articles is about when men and women live together, not alone, who does the bulk of the everyday, mundane but necessary household chores as opposed to once in blue moon tasks fall to and who knows all the details of the household for every member of the family in their head.

From personal experience, men. Alas, I am but one.

chrissb8 · 20-03-2019 3:56pm

I only get a bee in my bonnet when Women preach to Men about the male experience. You literally know nothing about it and you never ever will so stop offering opinions on something you have no idea about.

Just on all this nonsense. There is the gender of a person. Then there is the person themselves, their own personality, who they distinctivly are. I'm not defined by my gender, I am a man, yes and I have my own version of masculinity. But I'm not one of the boys, not useless at cleaning or remembering or incapable of expressing my feelings. I am me. I feel many people on both sides (or all sides) want to just been seen as such. Not defined by an exisiting sexual characteristic that pre determines what I will do or say. Cheap and lazy thinking. There are just people nothing more and nothing less.

meeeeh · 20-03-2019 3:57pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yes, this is true.

I’m a fairly girly girl but not really, really girly. I remember a full table of female colleagues being totally aghast at my admission that I don’t buy a new dress for every single wedding I’m invited to. I said I had a rotation that I occasionally added a new dress to and that if two consecutive weddings had different crowds at them that I’d happily wear the same dress at two weddings in a row. Aghast, they were. I’m not exaggerating. “What if someone sees from photos on Facebook that you wore the same dress to two weddings?” asked they. Says me “I doubt anyone will be looking at me that closely and if they do notice, well I pick dresses that suit me so it doesn’t bother me.” Them - still totally aghast. We moved on...

I hate that. And they will be usually buying cheap badly fitting clothes. I prefer the same well made dress than buy sone cheap tat every time that will end up on rubbish pile.

super_furry · 20-03-2019 3:57pm

Lads it's Wednesday, we're meant to be moaning about the travellers. Women are Monday.

Triceratops Ballet · 20-03-2019 3:58pm

nullzero wrote: »

Hard of reading?

I'm wondering why I'm expected to do as you outlined? I'm not the one being paid to work as a journalist, I'm offering an opinion on the shocking level of supposed journalism offered up by the writers in question.

Projecting stupidity and anger onto somebody suggests an inability to interact and discuss things at an adult level.

If the journalistic integrity of the life & style section of the times is what appalls you so one might suggest you could write to the editor who presumably read and approved these pieces to go into the paper. I would have thought people writing about their life experiences is right up the alley of the life & style section though tbh.

nullzero · 20-03-2019 3:58pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

And I'm sure in households with single women, they do actually you know put out the bins but the way men go on you'd swear women never touch these dirty jobs.
The point of the articles is about when men and women live together, not alone, who does the bulk of the everyday, mundane but necessary household chores as opposed to once in blue moon tasks fall to and who knows all the details of the household for every member of the family in their head.

I'm a married man and I do the majority of the housework as well as working full time outside the home.
It works differently for all families, the notion that women are holding things together in all families is antediluvian nonsense and any suggestion otherwise is just plain old self indulgent nonsense predicated on "men are useless" sexist claptrap.
It's 2019, time to drag yourself and your sexist opinions out of the dark ages, men aren't useless buffoons, we're women's partners and we work together for each other. All this "poor me" nonsense from women in relation to these issues belongs in the past.

nullzero · 20-03-2019 3:59pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

If the journalistic integrity of the life & style section of the times is what appalls you so one might suggest you could write to the editor who presumably read and approved these pieces to go into the paper. I would have thought people writing about their life experiences is right up the alley of the life & style section though tbh.

Maybe it is up the alley of people who read it. It doesn't make it a worthwhile enterprise however.

Triceratops Ballet · 20-03-2019 4:03pm

nullzero wrote: »

Maybe it is up the alley of people who read it. It doesn't make it a worthwhile enterprise however.

if the people who read it get enjoyment or entertainment out of it then it's serving it's purpose, and can therefor be deemed to be a worthwhile enterprise.

meeeeh · 20-03-2019 4:03pm

Jase Clean Quitter wrote: »

And with such hostility. Imagine being that angry.

It's not hostility it's just lack of respect.

jimgoose · 20-03-2019 4:03pm

Sounds to me like neither of the lazy wagons are very good at being Mistress of the House. Shape up or ship out, I sez.

Tacklebox · 20-03-2019 4:04pm

Has anyone brought up weeding in the garden yet or deadheading the roses ?

storker · 20-03-2019 4:05pm

On a more positive note, after countless radio ads (e.g. for car insurance) along the lines of...

Man: "I'm a bit of an eejit."
Woman: "I'm a smart cookie and in control."
Man: "I'm not sure what to do about..."
Woman: "This is the smart thing to do..."
Man: "You're brilliant!"

(OK I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist.)

...we finally have one in which the man is actually the one doing providing the answer. Imagine! Granted, the female isn't being shown as stupid - just wound a bit too tight - but it's a little bit of progress all the same.

storker · 20-03-2019 4:05pm

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I had a pizza and a few pints.

You like that ladies?

Did you think of getting it yourself or did you have to be told?

jimgoose · 20-03-2019 4:07pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

Women give out over anything. Men just can’t be arsed and do what they need to do. Also with a haircut like that with the first author I’d say she is offended over the slightest thing.

She looks like an escaped mental patient. And what about that stupid-looking, fat, beardy little fool of a yoke she's married to? It's no wonder she's writing articles like that in a national broadsheet. That kind of thing wouldn't normally fly, mind! :pac:

nullzero · 20-03-2019 4:08pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

if the people who read it get enjoyment or entertainment out of it then it's serving it's purpose, and can therefor be deemed to be a worthwhile enterprise.

Some people like perusing stormfront, they derive pleasure from it, are you following me?

IK09 · 20-03-2019 4:11pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Seriously guys, it's fairly pathetic that you seem to be so hanging your hats on the binmen to show that men take equal responsibility as women in organising and doing all the stuff that keeps a household going, which is what the op was actually about. If that's all you've got, it's telling.

Mrsmum wrote: »

And I'm sure in households with single women, they do actually you know put out the bins but the way men go on you'd swear women never touch these dirty jobs.
The point of the articles is about when men and women live together, not alone, who does the bulk of the everyday, mundane but necessary household chores as opposed to once in blue moon tasks fall to and who knows all the details of the household for every member of the family in their head.

You were talking about men using Binmen as a keystone example in opposition to women "doing all the stuff that keeps a household going". Im telling you that in the real world, men have just as much household responsibility as women, you just dont hear us harping on about it, looking for a pat on the back or writing articles about it. Just get on with it.

givyjoe · 20-03-2019 4:12pm

feargale wrote: »

Oh I see. The offended are "snowflakes," are they? By Jesus, watch a male journalist denigrate his other half publicly in the same way and see who is offended. Is the "equality of esteem" mantra an Irish disease? Equality for me but not for you, yes? That "snowflakes" argument is now being used to shield every bully's display of bad manners.

It's a 'clever' tactic.. women are encouraged to complain whatever they are dissatisfied with.. men do it and they're labelled snowflakes, weak, engaging in whataboutery(aka double standards) making them less likely to want to say booh, and be labelled any of above. All of which satisfies the perpetual hypocrites.

xckjoo · 20-03-2019 4:13pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Nurses are mostly women and there are plenty of bad smells and substances to deal with in that job. Cleaners appear to be mostly women too. Again, bad smells and physically quite heavy work. It’s disingenuous to suggest that women rarely work in jobs that involve visceral unpleasantness.

That's a great point. Wonder what the difference is. Social construct or something innate?

suicide_circus · 20-03-2019 4:16pm

is the tendency to wallow in victimhood the final barrier to true equality?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 20-03-2019 4:16pm

nullzero wrote: »

Hard of reading?

I'm wondering why I'm expected to do as you outlined? I'm not the one being paid to work as a journalist, I'm offering an opinion on the shocking level of supposed journalism offered up by the writers in question.

Projecting stupidity and anger onto somebody suggests an inability to interact and discuss things at an adult level.

You're not expected to because it's a stupid expectation. Because you're the one spouting off about their hypocrisy. These are articles in the lifestyle medium which are almost ALL trivial and casual. Were the Brexit correspondents you'd have a point. Were they the "Absolute worst issues facing women globally" correspondents you would too. But they're not, so they don't.

Josh Glancy's musings on how hard it is to make friends in your 30s, Jeremy Clarkson's senile ramblings about health and safety etc pass muster too and I'd wager they're paid more, lifestyle journalism is dross.

The reason people get paid to write articles with the content and tone of the pieces in the OP is precisely because they drive people into the state of outrage you're very clearly in now. Women generally do more housework, it's a complete non-issue in the real world and nobody gives much of a ****, these kind of threads directly lead to more of these articles

You've spent the last page engaged in ad hominem attacks and hostile lityle fits of faked incredulity towards anyone who's questioned your patent bullsh1t so I do admire the sheer blind self-worth it takes to try get a dig in about adult discussion though.

Triceratops Ballet · 20-03-2019 4:21pm

nullzero wrote: »

Some people like perusing stormfront, they derive pleasure from it, are you following me?

no I don't. Reading the life and style section of the times is not akin to getting enjoyment out of stormfront. Not by a long shot. Not everything in the paper is going to be hard hitting and gritty. Sometimes people like to read about the life experiences of others

If you don't like the message that's fine, but don't bang the "what happened to journalistic integrity drum" when there is plenty of "normal" news in the same publication if you don't like the message it's in your power to do something about it. Email the editor, if they get enough complaints about "agenda" pieces they'll realise it's alienating readers aka losing them money and they'll make a change.

Triceratops Ballet · 20-03-2019 4:24pm

chrissb8 wrote: »

I only get a bee in my bonnet when Women preach to Men about the male experience. You literally know nothing about it and you never ever will so stop offering opinions on something you have no idea about.

Imagine! someone of the opposite gender trying to explain your own experience to you....we women are so lucky that never happens to us! :rolleyes:

meeeeh · 20-03-2019 4:26pm

IK09 wrote: »

You were talking about men using Binmen as a keystone example in opposition to women "doing all the stuff that keeps a household going". Im telling you that in the real world, men have just as much household responsibility as women, you just dont hear us harping on about it, looking for a pat on the back or writing articles about it. Just get on with it.

Research does not support your claims.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housework-gender-gap-persists-in-ireland-and-eu-report-shows-1.3251200%3fmode=amp

I actually don't believe there has to be equal chore division. I'm married to someone who works long hours in our business. It's in my financial interest to do more house work than him and work shorter hours. But the hysteria around the subject is laughable. Now matter how many bin men and builders are dragged into discussion the gap and supporting research does exist. So comparing this thread and and actual research men in this thread actually diproportionally harp on about how much housework they do. Of course that's not all men at all just the special type who look to be offended about lifestyle articles.

James Brown · 20-03-2019 4:29pm

The latest wave against the patriarchy was regarding 'thanking' men for helping with the kids, house work etc. Men shouldn't be thanked for doing such work regardless of working full time or what ever. We're not to commend men who look after the kids and do housework after work or on weekends because they should be doing it in the first place. Also we shouldn't be saying 'you've a good one there' or the like about a husband who does all that stuff.
To me that's bollo. It's just being nice ffs. Imagine not thanking the bus driver, lolipop 'person' or mail 'person' because they should be doing that stuff anyway?

nullzero · 20-03-2019 4:30pm

Kole Alive Fingertip wrote: »

You're not expected to because it's a stupid expectation. Because you're the one spouting off about their hypocrisy. These are articles in the lifestyle medium which are almost ALL trivial and casual. Were the Brexit correspondents you'd have a point. Were they the "Absolute worst issues facing women globally" correspondents you would too. But they're not, so they don't.

Josh Glancy's musings on how hard it is to make friends in your 30s, Jeremy Clarkson's senile ramblings about health and safety etc pass muster too and I'd wager they're paid more, lifestyle journalism is dross.

The reason people get paid to write articles with the content and tone of the pieces in the OP is precisely because they drive people into the state of outrage you're very clearly in now. Women generally do more housework, it's a complete non-issue in the real world and nobody gives much of a ****, these kind of threads directly lead to more of these articles

You've spent the last page engaged in ad hominem attacks and hostile lityle fits of faked incredulity towards anyone who's questioned your patent bullsh1t so I do admire the sheer blind self-worth it takes to try get a dig in about adult discussion though.

You're assuming I'm outraged, when I'm simply confused by the logic of writing such nonsense.

You made a snarky comment about me and I have the right to take you to task on it.

Everything else you've written displays a hilarious level of childish nonsense peddled by somebody intent on playing the man instead of the ball, accusing me.of engaging in meaningless arguments whilst you are doing just that yourself and you call me a hypocrite and accuse me of patent BS.

I have to give it to you, you're on another level of crazy altogether, go you.

nullzero · 20-03-2019 4:32pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

no I don't. Reading the life and style section of the times is not akin to getting enjoyment out of stormfront. Not by a long shot. Not everything in the paper is going to be hard hitting and gritty. Sometimes people like to read about the life experiences of others

If you don't like the message that's fine, but don't bang the "what happened to journalistic integrity drum" when there is plenty of "normal" news in the same publication if you don't like the message it's in your power to do something about it. Email the editor, if they get enough complaints about "agenda" pieces they'll realise it's alienating readers aka losing them money and they'll make a change.

Does one publication require two "journalists" reporting from the cold face of the domestic chore war?

IK09 · 20-03-2019 4:32pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Research does not support your claims.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housework-gender-gap-persists-in-ireland-and-eu-report-shows-1.3251200%3fmode=amp

I actually don't believe there has to be equal chore division. I'm married to someone who works long hours in our business. It's in my financial interest to do more house work than him and work shorter hours. But the hysteria around the subject is laughable. Now matter how many bin men and builders are dragged into discussion the gap and supporting research does exist. So comparing this thread and and actual research men in this thread actually diproportionally harp on about how much housework they do. Of course that's not all men at all just the special type who look to be offended about lifestyle articles.

Can you provide the supporting research in that case rather than a link to an opinion piece written by a woman on the topic.

EDIT: You have to admit that even the title of the article shows her bias

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 20-03-2019 4:36pm

nullzero wrote: »

You're assuming I'm outraged, when I'm simply confused by the logic of writing such nonsense.

You made a snarky comment about me and I have the right to take you to task on it.

Everything else you've written displays a hilarious level of childish nonsense peddled by somebody intent on playing the man instead of the ball, accusing me.of engaging in meaningless arguments whilst you are doing just that yourself and you call me a hypocrite and accuse me of patent BS.

I have to give it to you, you're on another level of crazy altogether, go you.

Well feel free to go through a single point I've made if you get worn out by just repeatedly asserting I'm wrong.

You're criticising these women for engaging in behaviour which you are too. You're lamenting that they get paid to write this while reactions like yours are a direct cause of that. You're personally insulting people who disagree while not actually arguing back any of their points. I'm maybe being too charitable describing you as outraged, I assume a person who wasn't wouldn't carry on like that?

What is your preferred term if you don't like bulls1t?

chrissb8 · 20-03-2019 4:36pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Imagine! someone of the opposite gender trying to explain your own experience to you....we women are so lucky that never happens to us! :rolleyes:

Ha! Fight generalisation with even MORE generalisation, absolutely fantastic work.

Triceratops Ballet · 20-03-2019 4:40pm

nullzero wrote: »

Does one publication require two "journalists" reporting from the cold face of the domestic chore war?

Not having access to the financials I couldn't tell you, but I would imagine that these kind of articles get LOADS of clicks both from women who think "oh that sounds like my life" and from men who are outraged and since the purpose of a news publication is to make money then it's entirely possible that the revenue generated from the clicks makes it necessary in a business sense

squawker · 20-03-2019 4:43pm

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 20-03-2019 4:45pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Imagine! someone of the opposite gender trying to explain your own experience to you....we women are so lucky that never happens to us! :rolleyes:

We do have a whole lexicon to talk about that though, whereas men don't. Nor are they encouraged to. I'd also say the male experience has changed far more dramatically over the past decade than women's has. And having such experience of having men explain our opinions actions and motivations to us, surely the right response would be "ok let's not do that" and not "ha serves ye right".

Actually had an experience with it recently, quite a few men in my life were telling me that someone had an awful, hostile attitude to men and I thought they'd picked up on things wrong or were being oversensitive. Took me a while to check myself.

meeeeh · 20-03-2019 4:46pm

IK09 wrote: »

Can you provide the supporting research in that case rather than a link to an opinion piece written by a woman on the topic.

EDIT: You have to admit that even the title of the article shows her bias

Sorry I didn't realise you are not capable of copying the name of study into Google and pressing search. Here it is on the plate:

https://eige.europa.eu/publications/gender-equality-index-2017-measuring-gender-equality-european-union-2005-2015-report

Church on Tuesday · 20-03-2019 4:47pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Imagine! someone of the opposite gender trying to explain your own experience to you....we women are so lucky that never happens to us! :rolleyes:

Drop the victim-hood thing it's beyond tiresome at this stage.

Triceratops Ballet · 20-03-2019 4:49pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Drop the victim-hood thing it's beyond tiresome at this stage.

I'm not a victim, of anything thank you. I just appreciate irony. It's not nice for anyone to be told that their experiences are imagined. It's incredibly frustrating

IK09 · 20-03-2019 4:50pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Sorry I didn't realise you are not capable of copying the name of study into Google and pressing search. Here it is on the plate:

https://eige.europa.eu/publications/gender-equality-index-2017-measuring-gender-equality-european-union-2005-2015-report

Classy response

Woke Hogan · 20-03-2019 4:52pm

Newspapers such as The Irish Times which purport to be serious "papers of record" should reconsider their publishing of such incendiary articles. The Kevin Myers/Jeremy Clarkson model of hiring contravertionalists to rile people up really do belong in a different era. They offer nothing of value in investigation terms and only serve to provoke their readership or confirm any biases they may have.

nullzero · 20-03-2019 4:52pm

Kole Alive Fingertip wrote: »

Well feel free to go through a single point I've made if you get worn out by just repeatedly asserting I'm wrong.

You're criticising these women for engaging in behaviour which you are too. You're lamenting that they get paid to write this while reactions like yours are a direct cause of that. You're personally insulting people who disagree while not actually arguing back any of their points. I'm maybe being too charitable describing you as outraged, I assume a person who wasn't wouldn't carry on like that?

What is your preferred term if you don't like bulls1t?

I insult people who insult me.

I'm asserting that you are wrong because you are wrong, you're also all over me like a cheap suit, it's getting to be a bit much.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 20-03-2019 4:53pm

nullzero wrote: »

I insult people who insult me.

I'm asserting that you are wrong because you are wrong, you're also all over me like a cheap suit, it's getting to be a bit much.

Well I take it that's a no to any actual content or argument in your responses so yeah, a good day to you you funny angry little rapscallion you!

Paddy Cow · 20-03-2019 4:53pm

super_furry wrote: »

Lads it's Wednesday, we're meant to be moaning about the travellers. Women are Monday.

Monday was a bank holiday so the system is screwed up this week :P

Men Bashing and Women Saluting

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