Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

freshpopcorn · 26-02-2019 7:21pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Just a question I'm wondering about - if a person discloses unsettling thoughts to a doctor, counsellor etc, is that confidential or is the professional supposed/allowed to tell the family or persons that could be in danger ?

From what I know if a doctor feels a child may be suffering sexaul abuse they've to contact the authorities. It's the same with teachers/etc.
I take it physical abuse is/threat to their life is similar.

Mrsmum · 26-02-2019 7:22pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Una Butler whos two little girls were killed by their father has campaigned that that information should be passed on to the family . Her husband was attending a GP and it was not passed on to Una

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mother-who-lost-husband-and-children-appeals-for-society-not-to-sweep-murder-suicide-under-the-carpet-786487.html

"I called for a detailed investigation into his treatment from the HSE and also wanted the Mental Health Act 2001 to be amended to include spouses or partners in the treatment of the family member suffering with their mental health

Yes, surely that's not an unreasonable ask - to know if a family member is a danger or could be to themselves or others.

Calhoun · 26-02-2019 7:42pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Una Butler whos two little girls were killed by their father has campaigned that that information should be passed on to the family . Her husband was attending a GP and it was not passed on to Una

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mother-who-lost-husband-and-children-appeals-for-society-not-to-sweep-murder-suicide-under-the-carpet-786487.html

"I called for a detailed investigation into his treatment from the HSE and also wanted the Mental Health Act 2001 to be amended to include spouses or partners in the treatment of the family member suffering with their mental health

They say hard cases make really poor laws, how much should or shouldn't be shared?

What would this do for other people with mental health issues? What about patient doctor confidentiality?

freshpopcorn · 26-02-2019 7:45pm

Calhoun wrote: »

They say hard cases make really poor laws, how much should or shouldn't be shared?

What would this do for other people with mental health issues? What about patient doctor confidentiality?

That's the issue I see.
They are already cases when the Dr would contact social services if a kid was at risk/danger.
Getting a partner involved in mental health issues is messy in my opinion unless there was a danger but they do this already from what I know.

julyjane · 26-02-2019 7:57pm

lalababa wrote: »

Windgap that's it. Yea a localish woman told me that there was something wrong there.

my mother in law grew up a few miles away from the nearby town of Callan. I remember in the early 2000s there was a murder case there (possibly of a child by her father I can't remember) and we said something about how Callan must be jinxed because a few other things had made headlines there. It was in Windgap in 2008 where a local man murdered a single mother and her 2 children on Christmas eve, her brother has spoken out a lot in the media about the rights of victims families. The difference being the man who murdered his sister and nieces is still alive and his concerns are around concurrent sentencing and parole.

Calhoun · 26-02-2019 8:11pm

julyjane wrote: »

my mother in law grew up a few miles away from the nearby town of Callan. I remember in the early 2000s there was a murder case there (possibly of a child by her father I can't remember) and we said something about how Callan must be jinxed because a few other things had made headlines there. It was in Windgap in 2008 where a local man murdered a single mother and her 2 children on Christmas eve, her brother has spoken out a lot in the media about the rights of victims families. The difference being the man who murdered his sister and nieces is still alive and his concerns are around concurrent sentencing and parole.

Apparently in the case your mentioning, the victims don't get any say in the parole hearing where as the parolee can present a case for why they should be released.

fiveleavesleft · 26-02-2019 8:23pm

Was Hawe still in Kilkenny at the time of Jo Jo Dullards disappearance?

Sam Quentin · 26-02-2019 8:26pm

I feel we will never know what he was at or who caught him..... As that person may feel a tad responsible for what happened!?
Yes yes yes I know nobody would ever expect such a brutal horrible outcome,.

Sorry about that · 26-02-2019 8:29pm

If it's true that he "willed" the car and other possessions to family members; this would suggest that he felt his wishes would be honoured following the utter massacre of his wife and children.

Up to hearing about this, I believed that he was simply a horrible controlling man who felt his control beginning to slip. But for him to actually believe that his final instructions would be followed after his death, seems to me like he was utterly delusional.

Toots · 26-02-2019 8:39pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Wondering if this is usual for the police system in this country, and indeed others?

Are the Guards protecting the family, or is there a legal reason for withholding suicide notes until inquests etc?

Could the family have taken legal action to be shown the notes?

I don’t know about other countries but in Ireland, I believe, suicide notes are often withheld. I don’t know why. My husbands cousin took her own life and the family have so far not gotten the note. They were told that it’s basically at the discretion of the coroner, whether or not it’s handed over, and that there’s no guarantee they’ll ever get it.

gaius c · 26-02-2019 8:44pm

jos28 wrote: »

We could be here forever discussing the 'Mad or Bad' argument but that was not the point of the documentary. Something was happening in Alan Hawe's professional and or personal life outside the home. The details of this have not been disclosed to Clodagh's family and they should be. Someone, somewhere knows what was going on and that information should not be withheld.

There's no guarantee that there will be any answers here.

Cartroubles · 26-02-2019 9:00pm

fiveleavesleft wrote: »

Was Hawe still in Kilkenny at the time of Jo Jo Dullards disappearance?

You think he may have killed her?

julyjane · 26-02-2019 9:09pm

fiveleavesleft wrote: »

Was Hawe still in Kilkenny at the time of Jo Jo Dullards disappearance?

I don't know but she disappeared from Moone Co. Kildare so it's a bit of a stretch to connect the 2 just because they came from roughly the same area. The identity of the prime suspect is known to gardai and probably known to many journalists too and you can't libel the dead so you can be sure if there was any connection the tabloids would be all over it.

fiveleavesleft · 26-02-2019 9:14pm

julyjane wrote: »
I don't know but she disappeared from Moone Co. Kildare so it's a bit of a stretch to connect the 2 just because they came from roughly the same area. The identity of the prime suspect is known to gardai and probably known to many journalists too and you can't libel the dead so you can be sure if there was any connection the tabloids would be all over it.

Your right, thanks. The previous post on Callan triggered me.

nice_guy80 · 26-02-2019 9:17pm

tretorn wrote: »

He was a teacher though so basically on his own for most of the day with children.

There are plenty of really strange teachers who wouldnt be able to function in a normal working environment, they are left in the teaching profession until retirement and given a new class every year so their failure to be able to do their job doesnt cause too much of an impact. Its absolutely impossible to get rid of poorly performing teachers too though this does appear to be changing very slowly.

Teachers are also drawn to the job because of love and devotion to the GAA, lots of time off to devote to the GAA and being a member of this organisation gives you kudos in small towns and the edge when it comes to promotion, ie how many male teachers are there and how many male principals, very few male teachers but lots of male principals.

You've basically just described me - apart from the strange teacher obviously

And i have neverhad the urge to murder a few people

It doesn't matter what profession he is in.
He could have been a florist and it weouldnt have mattered

Edit: you must have a chip on the shoulder about teachers

Calltocall · 26-02-2019 9:23pm

One thing that’s a bit of a curveball was him wearing his wifes underwear, I wonder was that what he was hiding that he wanted to transition/to become a woman and perhaps the porn he was caught watching was of that nature, that would be a whole other level of shame and embarrassment particularly in a small rural town.

road_high · 26-02-2019 9:24pm

fiveleavesleft wrote: »

Was Hawe still in Kilkenny at the time of Jo Jo Dullards disappearance?

He would have only been around 19 at the time. Doubt it was him somehow

BlackandGreen · 26-02-2019 9:25pm

Where did Hawe go to school as a child/teenager?

Beechwoodspark · 26-02-2019 9:26pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

You've basically just described me - apart from the strange teacher obviously

And i have neverhad the urge to murder a few people

It doesn't matter what profession he is in.
He could have been a florist and it weouldnt have mattered

Edit: you must have a chip on the shoulder about teachers

Almost everyone will remember a certain type encountered during their school years :

Oddball teachers stealing a living as they couldnt be sacked for one reason or another so they simply got more wierd and worse as time went on

Beechwoodspark · 26-02-2019 9:27pm

BlackandGreen wrote: »

Where did Hawe go to school as a child/teenager?

Windgap in County Kilkenny i think?

freshpopcorn · 26-02-2019 9:32pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Almost everyone will remember a certain type encountered during their school years :

Oddball teachers stealing a living as they couldnt be sacked for one reason or another so they simply got more wierd and worse as time went on

To be fair they are lots of people in various professions that shouldn't be there.
I can think off odd ball Doctors, teachers, gardai, factory workers, supermarket workers and they don't seem to her sacked

donkeykong5 · 26-02-2019 9:33pm

Calltocall wrote: »

One thing that’s a bit of a curveball was him wearing his wifes underwear, I wonder was that what he was hiding that he wanted to transition/to become a woman and perhaps the porn he was caught watching was of that nature, that would be a whole other level of shame and embarrassment particularly in a small rural town.

His wife was half that bastards weight and size. If the weirdo was wearing her underwear hes a complete nutjob!

road_high · 26-02-2019 9:36pm

BlackandGreen wrote: »

Where did Hawe go to school as a child/teenager?

There’s a CBS in Callan, nearest town. Probably there I’d say

Itssoeasy · 26-02-2019 9:37pm

I've only read the transcript of it I've not watched the interview. The mother and daughter come across very well going on the trancript. He comes across as a ****ing monster(not that he wasn't at the time) and the premeditation of the whole thing would chill you. This wasn't him "snapping" this was him planning this.

wobatkicker23 · 26-02-2019 9:49pm

You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

iamwhoiam · 26-02-2019 9:54pm

wobatkicker23 wrote: »

You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

Did it ? You have no evidence of that ?

And no you don't have to feel any level of sympathy for him
I don't

strandroad · 26-02-2019 9:57pm

wobatkicker23 wrote: »

You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

You can't repair a sociopath if that's what he was.

Beechwoodspark · 26-02-2019 9:58pm

wobatkicker23 wrote: »

You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

To call him mentally ill is an insult to genuinely mentally ill ppl

retro:electro · 26-02-2019 10:02pm

wobatkicker23 wrote: »

You have to feel a certain level of sympathy for Hawe. If he had gotten the right help things could have turned put so differently. The mental health services in this country let down Alan and his family.

I don’t feel anything towards him only absolute disgust and disdain. I feel everything for those left behind without answers.

wobatkicker23 · 26-02-2019 10:03pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

To call him mentally ill is an insult to genuinely mentally ill ppl

The definition of mental illness is a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.

Are you saying this man was mentally ok?

Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

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