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Irish fathers look set to benefit from two weeks paid paternity leave

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    FatherTed wrote: »
    So who actually pays for these paid maternity and paternity leaves? Say I own a company with 100 people and this year 5 women go on maternity leave and 2 guys go on this paternity leave. Does my company pay for their leave or is it the state?
    The state pays the paternity/maternity benefit, you do not have to pay the employee for the time off.

    How it affects employers is that they are required to keep the job open for the employee and the employee continues to notch up holiday entitlements while on maternity leave.

    Two weeks for men is pittance, but it's something at least. I took 3 weeks out of my holidays and I needed 3 more.

    There is a benefit to employers in this. Any parent will tell you that during the first 8 weeks you barely know your own name. Fathers coming into work can be a liability and are better off staying home and helping with the workload there.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    I'm willing to bet there'll be male transsexuals in the future that'll have donated wombs put into them... now whether that would work or not is a different story... :pac:

    The other week I saw a news article that about someone who was the first man to give birth. I was like, wow, WTF is this? Then reading it it turned out that it was a trans man. ie, they were really a woman with a few cosmetic and hormonal procedures to make them look like a man. Stupid, misleading article.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,316 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    The reality is that the mother needs the leave from work more than the man. There is naturally an option for the father to take unpaid leave but this isn't too practical. I don't see why a father would need paid leave for anywhere near as long as the mother if he only needs to bond with it.

    You're assuming that

    1) The man doesn't care for the child as much
    2) The woman might have a better paying job.

    Assuming that the woman is always going to be a stay at home mother is pretty sexist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    I think my company gave me 2 days. I took 2 weeks annual leave anyway.

    I would have liked a month or so, really felt I missed out on some bonding / routine stuff.
    Still, 2 weeks paid is a step in the right direction.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    I'm willing to bet there'll be male transsexuals in the future that'll have donated wombs put into them... now whether that would work or not is a different story... :pac:

    Inb4 the trannys come in giving out saying the mtfs are called trans women


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,316 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    seamus wrote: »
    Two weeks for men is pittance, but it's something at least. I took 3 weeks out of my holidays and I needed 3 more.

    A guy I work with ended up using up most of his holiday time before the birth. His wife had a difficult pregnancy and was in hospital for a few weeks. By the time the baby arrived he only had a few days left to take off. That was in June.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 367 ✭✭Marz66


    Step in the right direction for equality.

    Won't it be difficult for employers though in terms of notice before the father goes on leave. The baby could be 2 weeks early, 2 weeks late, on time and the father won't know til it happens. The father is probably not going to be replaced over the 2 weeks so there could be hassle for him getting away from work for exactly the first 2 weeks after the birth. He won't know if he can attend a meeting in such a week etc. It's easier for the mother as she has to give notice that her maternity leave is starting on X date. It would be a shame if fathers got their leave in say weeks 3 and 4 instead.

    Maybe though it will work like force majeure type leave and the father won't have to give notice.

    Would much prefer if maternity and paternity leave could be shared and father could take some of his leave concurrently with mother if he wanted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Marz66 wrote: »
    Would much prefer if maternity and paternity leave could be shared and father could take some of his leave concurrently with mother if he wanted.
    My concern with this would always be that they would keep it at six months and allow it to be shared. Which doesn't really help anyone.

    Equality can really only go so far; the process of childbirth is massively inequal, and you cannot legislate yourself out of that fact. Women need to breastfeed, they may be uncomfortable or downright infirm following the birth, and by and large women will have more sleep loss and stress than men.

    So I think that still needs to be recognised and certain minimum levels of parental leave guaranteed. Something like nine months paid shared leave in total; a maximum of seven can be taken by the mother and a maximum of four by the father.

    In the event that either parent dies or is absent, the entire balance goes to the other parent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Grayson wrote: »
    A guy I work with ended up using up most of his holiday time before the birth. His wife had a difficult pregnancy and was in hospital for a few weeks. By the time the baby arrived he only had a few days left to take off. That was in June.

    Kinda the same for me. My missus had a terrible birth on our first kid and was near enough immobilized for a while so I had to take annual leave to look after them when my company paternity leave (2 days) ran out.

    It's interesting to read about the marriage thing as I never considered that in relation to paternity leave. Marriage automatically makes a father the guardian of the child, otherwise you have to apply for it. I assume you'd have to be the guardian of the child to get paternity leave if it's brought in.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    seamus wrote: »
    My concern with this would always be that they would keep it at six months and allow it to be shared. Which doesn't really help anyone.

    Equality can really only go so far; the process of childbirth is massively inequal, and you cannot legislate yourself out of that fact. Women need to breastfeed, they may be uncomfortable or downright infirm following the birth, and by and large women will have more sleep loss and stress than men.

    So I think that still needs to be recognised and certain minimum levels of parental leave guaranteed. Something like nine months paid shared leave in total; a maximum of seven can be taken by the mother and a maximum of four by the father.

    In the event that either parent dies or is absent, the entire balance goes to the other parent.

    this is exactly what they need to do but i'd change it to a maximum of 7 months for either parent, plus it would even the score on hiring in companies, they could hire a man and after his probation period he could take his paternity leave and be missing just the same as a woman can. it would by default even up the hiring process for both genders.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 367 ✭✭Marz66


    seamus wrote: »
    My concern with this would always be that they would keep it at six months and allow it to be shared. Which doesn't really help anyone.

    Equality can really only go so far; the process of childbirth is massively inequal, and you cannot legislate yourself out of that fact. Women need to breastfeed, they may be uncomfortable or downright infirm following the birth, and by and large women will have more sleep loss and stress than men.

    Yeah I agree the mother should be given a guaranteed amount of maternity leave. Maybe 2 or 3 months though. With option for mother or father to take the rest of it. Some mothers who had a straight forward birth and who don't breastfeed might be ready to return to work then.

    If only the woman is guaranteed the larger part of the leave then she could still be at risk of discrimination at work (employer possibly presuming she will take leave). If it is only possible that she will take the leave eg difficult birth, breastfeeding, and that the man might take a larger portion of leave then things might be more equal for both mother and father.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭AndonHandon


    Grayson wrote: »
    You're assuming that

    1) The man doesn't care for the child as much
    2) The woman might have a better paying job.

    Assuming that the woman is always going to be a stay at home mother is pretty sexist.

    1) The mother needs more time to recover from the ordeal of carrying a child around inside her and then ejecting that child
    2) If the leave was optional to be shared between the parents then the better paid mother can go back to work


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    IBEC aren't best pleased with the proposal.
    Today, Ibec head of HR, Maeve McElwee said it is “unclear how the Minister sees paternity leave being introduced”.

    She said that if the government is building on proposals whereby mothers share two weeks of their leave with the father, it creates a “more complex and administratively costly situation” for employers.

    "Although Ibec recognises the importance of achieving reconciliation of professional and private life, any proposal for a period of maternity leave to be shared with the father will result in a disproportionate burden for employers trying to maintain their competitiveness, in particular, small and medium sized businesses."

    “Employers will face an increased administrative and cost burden ensuring that temporary cover is arranged, or duties are re-allocated where an employee is on leave, regardless of the length of leave,” she said. “Alternative arrangements will have to be made in a way which ensures that there it does not result in a loss of productivity, or output.”

    She pointed out that the European Union has already extended the period of parental leave to 18 weeks, which “gave parents, including fathers, an entitlement to an extra four weeks of leave”.

    “There is no requirement to legislate for any period of maternity leave to be shared with the father of child, where generous provisions already exist.”



    http://www.thejournal.ie/employers-paternity-leave-1894396-Jan2015/“Employers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    This country is going to end up like Greece the more these silly initiatives keep coming out. Ultimately it's going to cost jobs. I'm all for father's rights and feel strongly about it but from an economic point of view things like this, in our space right now, are not a good idea.

    Ironically the same people here that will say "great for equality" and all that good stuff are the exact same who shout at the top of their voices criticising the lack of jobs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    seamus wrote: »
    I took 3 weeks out of my holidays and I needed 3 more.

    There is a benefit to employers in this. Any parent will tell you that during the first 8 weeks you barely know your own name. Fathers coming into work can be a liability and are better off staying home and helping with the workload there.
    This. I know there are plenty of things people don't have to be parents to understand (I'm not a parent myself) but I don't think someone who isn't a father can know what time off he needs, or know fully what it entails once there is a new baby in the home - particularly if there is already a young child/children.

    While it is more about the mother, as she needs recovery time following pregnancy and birth, and may be breastfeeding, it's not only about the mother.

    Getting up early and working five days a week with next to no sleep, and then all the work involved helping the mother look after the baby (and another child/children if applicable) after work (couples do use this time to let the mother have a rest) must be very very hard - mentally and emotionally, let alone physically.
    I know men have always done it, but that doesn't mean things don't deserve to be improved on that front.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    About time fathers got something! 2 weeks should be just a starting point, new fathers in the UK get to share parental leave with their partners properly from April.


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