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Irish fathers look set to benefit from two weeks paid paternity leave

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    #32
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    syklops wrote: »
    It surely comes out of their PRSI contributions over the past number of years?

    Employers are not obliged to offer paid maternity leave. If they opt to, they can just pay the wage minus state maternity benefit.


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    #33
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Venus In Furs wrote: »
    "The ladies" being... one lady (CarpeDiem85) who isn't actually opposed to it?

    http://www.a1gifts.co.uk/images/prodimages/SS1002L-2.jpg


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    #34
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,284 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    AndonHandon wrote: »
    The dad certainly does not need a "good stint". 2 weeks of paid leave for having a child with a girl? Sounds good.

    Whether or not the father needs the time off, it would certainly be beneficial to the mother having her partner around for some additional support in the early days. My sister in law had two caesareans and I know that her mobility was limited for some time after each. While my brother took as much time off as he could, an extra couple of weeks would have been a huge help.


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    #35
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,389 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Make two separate things: Parental leave and pregnancy leave.


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    #36
    Smurph90
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭Smurph90


    I actually cant believe that people are having issues with fathers getting time off. Some people just love a good moan


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    #37
    Samsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,192 ✭✭✭Samsgirl


    They should have it or longer. I had two c sections & was immobile for up to 6 weeks after each.
    The first time around I had the new baby to mind but the second time there was a 16mth old as well & new arrival.
    There is also no driving for 6 weeks after c section - trips to the GP were required.
    The first few weeks with a new baby are so crazy. Or our experiences were anyhow.


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    #38
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Farther should get a month or 2 paid maternity leave!


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    #39
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    Smurph90 wrote: »
    I actually cant believe that people are having issues with fathers getting time off. Some people just love a good moan
    Their taxes etc.

    Meh, worth it IMO. It benefits society, not just individuals.


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    #40
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    Venus In Furs wrote: »
    It benefits society, not just individuals.

    How? Don't most just dump the kids in crèches and childminders once they hit a year old anyway.

    Really we don't care about our kids anymore let someone else look after them seems to be the motto


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    #41
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    AndonHandon wrote: »
    I'd rather he took more time unpaid leave then have taxpayers fund whatever he wants to do with the kid though I do agree with a bit more than 2 weeks on offer. Perhaps an option for the mother to give some of her allocation to him?

    Equality shouldn't be optional.


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    #42
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    kowloon wrote: »
    Make two separate things: Parental leave and pregnancy leave.

    Very good idea.


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    #43
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    macyard wrote: »
    How? Don't most just dump the kids in crèches and childminders once they hit a year old anyway.

    Really we don't care about our kids anymore let someone else look after them seems to be the motto

    AH guide:

    1: Pay for exorbitant childcare in order to work so you can pay mortgage/astronomical rents and contribute taxes to economy: bad parents

    2: Don't work and are unable to pay mortgage/astronomical rents and contribute taxes to economy: bum sponging off 'my taxes'


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    #44
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    thee glitz wrote: »
    I see what you did there but hopefully this will happen sooner.

    The bill is only being crafted at this stage. A long way to go yet.

    My employer already gives 2 weeks paid paternity leave. Will this make much difference at all?.


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    #45
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Kendra Ugly Memorandum wrote: »
    The bill is only being crafted at this stage. A long way to go yet.

    My employer already gives 2 weeks paid paternity leave. Will this make much difference at all?.

    Not to you. But it will to all the other men out there who are entitled to zero paid paternity leave.

    Two weeks is nothing. But at the same time it is a good start.


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    #46
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Some men are glad to get back to work after a few days:D


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    #47
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    We need the swedish solution where the parents are given a set amount between them that they get to split however they want.


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    #48
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Ireland being a modern progressive country, it really is shocking the appalling way fathers are treated in the eyes of the law and state. What ever chance married dads have, unmarried dads are fcuked. It's disgraceful.

    Actually that's an important point. Would a father have to be married to the mother in order to qualify for the leave? It wouldn't surprise me.


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    #49
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    How many companies in Ireland are giving out about this... I know mine is most likely foaming at the mouth at the thought of allowing people leave from work after their child is born. It is hard enough to get a sick day...

    This is something that should be in place for the past 10 years, it is long overdue.


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    #50
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    Hopefully men can start having the babies soon too. Share the pain :)

    I'm willing to bet there'll be male transsexuals in the future that'll have donated wombs put into them... now whether that would work or not is a different story... :pac:


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    #51
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    I think its a great idea its about time, when I had my baby my oartner only got a week off work its was tough already having two children but most important was the bond should be same for mother and father after all we both made them.


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    #52
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    FatherTed wrote: »
    So who actually pays for these paid maternity and paternity leaves? Say I own a company with 100 people and this year 5 women go on maternity leave and 2 guys go on this paternity leave. Does my company pay for their leave or is it the state?
    The state pays the paternity/maternity benefit, you do not have to pay the employee for the time off.

    How it affects employers is that they are required to keep the job open for the employee and the employee continues to notch up holiday entitlements while on maternity leave.

    Two weeks for men is pittance, but it's something at least. I took 3 weeks out of my holidays and I needed 3 more.

    There is a benefit to employers in this. Any parent will tell you that during the first 8 weeks you barely know your own name. Fathers coming into work can be a liability and are better off staying home and helping with the workload there.


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    #53
    Chemical Byrne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Chemical Byrne


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    I'm willing to bet there'll be male transsexuals in the future that'll have donated wombs put into them... now whether that would work or not is a different story... :pac:

    The other week I saw a news article that about someone who was the first man to give birth. I was like, wow, WTF is this? Then reading it it turned out that it was a trans man. ie, they were really a woman with a few cosmetic and hormonal procedures to make them look like a man. Stupid, misleading article.


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    #54
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,164 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    AndonHandon wrote: »
    The reality is that the mother needs the leave from work more than the man. There is naturally an option for the father to take unpaid leave but this isn't too practical. I don't see why a father would need paid leave for anywhere near as long as the mother if he only needs to bond with it.

    You're assuming that

    1) The man doesn't care for the child as much
    2) The woman might have a better paying job.

    Assuming that the woman is always going to be a stay at home mother is pretty sexist.


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    #55
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    I think my company gave me 2 days. I took 2 weeks annual leave anyway.

    I would have liked a month or so, really felt I missed out on some bonding / routine stuff.
    Still, 2 weeks paid is a step in the right direction.


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    #56
    macyard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 380 ✭✭macyard


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    I'm willing to bet there'll be male transsexuals in the future that'll have donated wombs put into them... now whether that would work or not is a different story... :pac:

    Inb4 the trannys come in giving out saying the mtfs are called trans women


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    #57
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,164 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    seamus wrote: »
    Two weeks for men is pittance, but it's something at least. I took 3 weeks out of my holidays and I needed 3 more.

    A guy I work with ended up using up most of his holiday time before the birth. His wife had a difficult pregnancy and was in hospital for a few weeks. By the time the baby arrived he only had a few days left to take off. That was in June.


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    #58
    Marz66
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Marz66


    Step in the right direction for equality.

    Won't it be difficult for employers though in terms of notice before the father goes on leave. The baby could be 2 weeks early, 2 weeks late, on time and the father won't know til it happens. The father is probably not going to be replaced over the 2 weeks so there could be hassle for him getting away from work for exactly the first 2 weeks after the birth. He won't know if he can attend a meeting in such a week etc. It's easier for the mother as she has to give notice that her maternity leave is starting on X date. It would be a shame if fathers got their leave in say weeks 3 and 4 instead.

    Maybe though it will work like force majeure type leave and the father won't have to give notice.

    Would much prefer if maternity and paternity leave could be shared and father could take some of his leave concurrently with mother if he wanted.


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    #59
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Marz66 wrote: »
    Would much prefer if maternity and paternity leave could be shared and father could take some of his leave concurrently with mother if he wanted.
    My concern with this would always be that they would keep it at six months and allow it to be shared. Which doesn't really help anyone.

    Equality can really only go so far; the process of childbirth is massively inequal, and you cannot legislate yourself out of that fact. Women need to breastfeed, they may be uncomfortable or downright infirm following the birth, and by and large women will have more sleep loss and stress than men.

    So I think that still needs to be recognised and certain minimum levels of parental leave guaranteed. Something like nine months paid shared leave in total; a maximum of seven can be taken by the mother and a maximum of four by the father.

    In the event that either parent dies or is absent, the entire balance goes to the other parent.


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    #60
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Grayson wrote: »
    A guy I work with ended up using up most of his holiday time before the birth. His wife had a difficult pregnancy and was in hospital for a few weeks. By the time the baby arrived he only had a few days left to take off. That was in June.

    Kinda the same for me. My missus had a terrible birth on our first kid and was near enough immobilized for a while so I had to take annual leave to look after them when my company paternity leave (2 days) ran out.

    It's interesting to read about the marriage thing as I never considered that in relation to paternity leave. Marriage automatically makes a father the guardian of the child, otherwise you have to apply for it. I assume you'd have to be the guardian of the child to get paternity leave if it's brought in.


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    #61
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    seamus wrote: »
    My concern with this would always be that they would keep it at six months and allow it to be shared. Which doesn't really help anyone.

    Equality can really only go so far; the process of childbirth is massively inequal, and you cannot legislate yourself out of that fact. Women need to breastfeed, they may be uncomfortable or downright infirm following the birth, and by and large women will have more sleep loss and stress than men.

    So I think that still needs to be recognised and certain minimum levels of parental leave guaranteed. Something like nine months paid shared leave in total; a maximum of seven can be taken by the mother and a maximum of four by the father.

    In the event that either parent dies or is absent, the entire balance goes to the other parent.

    this is exactly what they need to do but i'd change it to a maximum of 7 months for either parent, plus it would even the score on hiring in companies, they could hire a man and after his probation period he could take his paternity leave and be missing just the same as a woman can. it would by default even up the hiring process for both genders.


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