Golf coverage/commentator discussion thread!! Mod note #12

Seve OB · 15-11-2020 10:46pm

i liked the drone shots but i don't think i saw one which lasted for more than about 3 seconds.
i would have like to see them used more, was plenty of times we could have seen a player hit from the drones eye, would have made for something interesting. fair enough, it might have been sh1te, but it would have been worth trying.
some great camera angles this year, felt i got to see so much more of the course

First Up · 15-11-2020 11:00pm

The absence of a gallery - sorry patrons - didn't bother me at all. It allowed a full panorama of the course (which we don't usually get) and gave the cameras and drones access to all the angles needed to show what was facing the player.

I know it detracted from the "atmosphere" but from a purely golfing perspective, it was great.

GreeBo · 16-11-2020 10:38am

El Sueño wrote: »

Sky have had 3 days to fix the syncing issues with Butch's commentary, the fact that the 3-4 second delay is still there just isn't good enough

How do you fix a delay caused by distance?

GreeBo · 16-11-2020 10:51am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

McGinley obviously has an axe to grind with McIlroy and has the platform on sky. Just gets a bit repetitive, some of the criticism about his professionalism are on the edge, you'd never hear him criticise Lowry or Spieth like that who have been even more disappointing.

Do you put Spieth and Lowry into the same category as McIlroy?
Who do you criticise more for missing a penalty, the Sunday league player or Ronaldo?

Kristina Glamorous Rumba wrote: »

Perhaps but you want a commentator to be somewhat objective.

His silly comment of Rory losing the edge he had with the driver from 7 years ago when in fact one of his most dominant years -if not most dominant- statistically off the tee was 2019.

I don’t mind a little bias for/against a player/style, it’s good for conversation but it can’t be as outlandish as some of the stuff he says about him at times.

McIlroy's SG off the tee:

2020 0.702
2019 1.195
2018 0.761
2017 1.070
2016 1.230
2015 1.097
2014 1.367
2013 0.624

So he certainly was miles better in 2014, or 7 seasons ago...

tyivpc5qjx0f2b · 16-11-2020 11:18am

GreeBo wrote: »

McIlroy's SG off the tee:

2020 0.702
2019 1.195
2018 0.761
2017 1.070
2016 1.230
2015 1.097
2014 1.367
2013 0.624

So he certainly was miles better in 2014, or 7 seasons ago...

His point was the McIlroy's "relative edge" off the tee had been diminishing for 7 years not his absolute numbers which is what I said.

2014 vs 2020 there is a substantial gap but in the interim years, it did not diminish significantly as shown in 2019. To give you an example;

In 2014 McIlroy was as you say 1.376 while Bubba was .967 which is 42% better than 2nd place in SG:OTT

In 2019 McIlroy as you again say was 1.195 while Vegas was 0.753 which is 59% better 2nd place in SG:OTT.

As I said McGinleys point that McIlroys relative edge off the tee had diminished throughout the past 7 years just isnt really true.
His absolute number peaked in 2014 but his edge on the field did not.

Miley Byrne · 16-11-2020 12:36pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Yep, loves to get a few sly digs on mcilroy anytime he can, usually questions his bottle, mental strength and focus which are huge things to question a professional player on. He's great at disguising it though. No wonder McIlroy has little time for him.

Apart from that I generally like McGinley, has his homework done, knows his stats and offers good analysis.

McGinley has an axe to grind with Rory for not supporting "HIS" Irish Open in Lahinch and his not-so-subtle gleeful commentary on Rory's demise is childish and very, very obvious.

eagle eye · 16-11-2020 1:24pm

Miley Byrne wrote:

McGinley has an axe to grind with Rory for not supporting "HIS" Irish Open in Lahinch and his not-so-subtle gleeful commentary on Rory's demise is childish and very, very obvious.

That's rubbish. McGinley is one of the all time nice guys. He doesn't have it in him to hold grudges.
He's been fawning over Rory for years. He only started telling it as it is about Rory very recently. It's refreshing to have somebody be honest about Rory for a change.

zf0wqv9oemuasj · 16-11-2020 1:39pm

GreeBo wrote: »

How do you fix a delay caused by distance?

Hi, They could delay their broadcast by a few seconds and sync in his voice correctly with the live broadcast when transmitted.

GreeBo · 16-11-2020 3:45pm

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/golf/rory-mcilroy-paul-mcginley-not-my-job-cheerleader-216738

Paul McGinley wrote:

My job at Sky is not to be a cheerleader for Rory McIlroy

GreeBo · 16-11-2020 3:46pm

Kai Bewildered Insectivore wrote: »

Hi, They could delay their broadcast by a few seconds and sync in his voice correctly with the live broadcast when transmitted.

But you have multiple commentators in different parts of the world trying to commentate on the same "live" action, its impossible not to have a delay.

If they delay their broadcast then the guys in studio would also be delayed, trying to merge that live action seamlessly just isnt going to happen.

Miley Byrne · 16-11-2020 3:48pm

eagle eye wrote: »

That's rubbish. McGinley is one of the all time nice guys. He doesn't have it in him to hold grudges.
He's been fawning over Rory for years. He only started telling it as it is about Rory very recently. It's refreshing to have somebody be honest about Rory for a change.

Exactly

GreeBo · 20-11-2020 12:01pm

https://irishgolfer.ie/latest-golf-news/2020/11/18/murphy-questions-mcilroys-diamond-partnership/

Gary Murphy (again) weighing in on the McIlroy-Diamond partnership

tyivpc5qjx0f2b · 20-11-2020 12:17pm

GreeBo wrote: »

https://irishgolfer.ie/latest-golf-news/2020/11/18/murphy-questions-mcilroys-diamond-partnership/

Gary Murphy (again) weighing in on the McIlroy-Diamond partnership

I generally hate these articles irrespective of who they're discussing.

It's nothing but complete conjecture based on nothing. He states the "Diamond needs to be stronger" yet provides no examples of when he isn't strong.

It lacks any semblance of substance that it's hardly worth printing.

eagle eye · 20-11-2020 12:24pm

Well you could at least out up the whole sentence. "From what I can see from watching in and walking around with them, Harry probably needs to be a lot stronger" Murphy told Joe Molloy

hurikane · 20-11-2020 12:28pm

Been watching a good bit of golf on sky lately. It does my head in when Coltart and Dougherty are on together, constant one upmanship nonsense. I want to hear about the golf, not them. Dougherty on his own is fine. Enjoyed Butch taking the piss out of Coltart during the masters.

Mysterypunter · 20-11-2020 12:44pm

Funny enough it is the nobody's who critisise more than anyone else. Coltart,Dougherty Gary Murphy. What did they ever do? The only time I ever saw coltart, he was full of drink annoying people, dougherty packed in the game because he wasn't good enough, and Gary Murphy did more or less the same as him. 3 nobody's

IAmTitleist · 20-11-2020 12:49pm

Ewen Murray was a relative nobody too...but i still take his word as gospel!

tyivpc5qjx0f2b · 20-11-2020 12:51pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well you could at least out up the whole sentence. "From what I can see from watching in and walking around with them, Harry probably needs to be a lot stronger" Murphy told Joe Molloy

Ok and where do you think the tangible difference is in quoting him verbatim vs what I said?

Do you feel I misrepresented what he said or left out a piece of information that would have made what he said more insightful?

As I explicitly said, he provided no example of where Harry wasn't strong so it's really nothing but conjecture.

eagle eye · 20-11-2020 1:00pm

Mysterypunter wrote:

Funny enough it is the nobody's who critisise more than anyone else. Coltart,Dougherty Gary Murphy. What did they ever do? The only time I ever saw coltart, he was full of drink annoying people, dougherty packed in the game because he wasn't good enough, and Gary Murphy did more or less the same as him. 3 nobody's

I don't like Dougherty one bit but I have to take issue with your nobody comment. He won two pretty prestigious tournaments in the BMW International open and the Alfred Dunhill links. He played in all four majors.
He was a very good golfer for a few years before completely losing his form and retiring at a young age.
He's certainly not a nobody.
What are you looking for? Major winners to talk about majors?
You are far less qualified to give the opinion of them as nobodies than they are to discuss Rory McIlroy..

eagle eye · 20-11-2020 1:02pm

Kristina Glamorous Rumba wrote:

Ok and where do you think the tangible difference is in quoting him verbatim vs what I said?

He explained that his opinion is based off watching and walking along with them. So he's been there listening to their interactions.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b · 20-11-2020 1:16pm

eagle eye wrote: »

He explained that his opinion is based off watching and walking along with them. So he's been there listening to their interactions.

You do realise the irony in questioning me for not quoting him in full and then subsequently failing to fully quote me?

As I said-for the 3rd time- what he said is nothing but conjecture no matter how close he has stood to him.

He provided no explicit examples verifiable or otherwise, of when Harry failed to pull McIlroy up.
No further insight into the dynamic of their relation and why there is something missing.

His reference to Lowry and how Bo played his role around Portrush could have been used as a comparison to how Harry & Rory interacted during x tournament.

Article wrote: »

“If you look back to Portrush last year on the Saturday with Shane Lowry and his caddie Bo, think how much he jockeyed Shane to be fully committed to understand the decision and be able to execute. The roll of the caddie is enormous,”

Every relationship is different and I just thought it was another bad mundane article on the topic.
I think it is really poor and doesn't really shed any additional light on why Rory getting a new caddy is the answer to his shortcomings.

ligerdub · 20-11-2020 2:07pm

There has always been a scapegoat for the times when Rory isn't performing to the very best of his abilities.

It used to be the Nike clubs (did he win the majors with these?), the fallout from the change in PR company, the gossip in his family life, not practising enough, he needs to get rid of JP on the bag, he needs to have a proper caddy, he needs to see a psychologist to improve his mental game etc.

Pundits are weighing in because they want to rationalise why he isn't world number 1. The reality is that it's now very, very competitive at the top of the world golf rankings, and it's far from easy. There will be peaks and troughs regardless, and they all go through them.

Mysterypunter · 20-11-2020 4:19pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't like Dougherty one bit but I have to take issue with your nobody comment. He won two pretty prestigious tournaments in the BMW International open and the Alfred Dunhill links. He played in all four majors.
He was a very good golfer for a few years before completely losing his form and retiring at a young age.
He's certainly not a nobody.
What are you looking for? Major winners to talk about majors?
You are far less qualified to give the opinion of them as nobodies than they are to discuss Rory McIlroy..

Doherty was promising 15 years ago, and fell off the map after about 2 years, he was hyped up for while OK, but never lived up to it. He's not the worst by a long shot, but sky analysts are on a gravy train, money for nothing. All the top players are good, and McIlroy gets lots of unwarranted critisism from people who are nowhere near his level.

GreeBo · 20-11-2020 4:38pm

If we are going to discount any pundits who were never world class, then 90% of pundits across 100% of sports need to be discounted.
(Thank goodness for Gary Neville!)

eagle eye · 21-11-2020 12:20am

Mysterypunter wrote:

Doherty was promising 15 years ago, and fell off the map after about 2 years, he was hyped up for while OK, but never lived up to it. He's not the worst by a long shot, but sky analysts are on a gravy train, money for nothing. All the top players are good, and McIlroy gets lots of unwarranted critisism from people who are nowhere near his level.

What you don't seem to get is that Rory McIlroy is undoubtedly the most talented golfer on the planet but he's not performing near that level.
This isn't me being biased towards him, I'm very critical of him of late. I believe he needs a great caddy, I believe he likes his little comforts too much.
I watched him win a West of Ireland at 15 years of age and knew he was good enough to be a pro golfer at that stage.
Imo the guy has been skimping on practice for years. He was getting away with it to a certain extent for a while with his long game being enough to keep him in contention.
His putting was dire for be quite be a while and he has never had a caddy that could help him read greens.
These guys that are talking about his issues now are the same guys that raved about him for years upon years even when he wasn't performing in majors.
I'm hoping this talk gets to him and we see the Rory we should have been seeing all along.

GreeBo · 21-11-2020 2:20am

eagle eye wrote: »

What you don't seem to get is that Rory McIlroy is undoubtedly the most talented golfer on the planet but he's not performing near that level.
This isn't me being biased towards him, I'm very critical of him of late. I believe he needs a great caddy, I believe he likes his little comforts too much.
I watched him win a West of Ireland at 15 years of age and knew he was good enough to be a pro golfer at that stage.
Imo the guy has been skimping on practice for years. He was getting away with it to a certain extent for a while with his long game being enough to keep him in contention.
His putting was dire for be quite be a while and he has never had a caddy that could help him read greens.
These guys that are talking about his issues now are the same guys that raved about him for years upon years even when he wasn't performing in majors.
I'm hoping this talk gets to him and we see the Rory we should have been seeing all along.

I don't think you can say he is undoubtedly the most talented golfer on the planet...I mean what's that actually based on?!

Every one of them would win every week if they always played to their peak ability, playing to your ability is 95% of the game at the pro level, they can all got the ball well enough to win

Agree with the rest

eagle eye · 21-11-2020 2:38am

GreeBo wrote:

Every one of them would win every week if they always played to their peak ability, playing to your ability is 95% of the game at the pro level, they can all got the ball well enough to win

If Rory is at 90% he wins nearly every time.
DJ is the only one who can take him on when both are in top gear. Maybe Koepka too.

GreeBo · 21-11-2020 2:41am

eagle eye wrote: »

If Rory is at 90% he wins nearly every time.
DJ is the only one who can take him on when both are in top gear. Maybe Koepka too.

Again, based on what?
When have we seen this? How can you tell when someone is operating at or above 90%?
You are basically saying that he would/could be the best if he just played better...

tyivpc5qjx0f2b · 21-11-2020 8:15am

Perhaps worth officially turning this into a second Rory McIlroy thread.

Deeper Blue · 13-03-2021 11:00pm

Nick Dougherty is a brutal commentator. Truly atrocious.

Everyone else on the Sky team is very good imo, including Sarah Stirk.

eagle eye · 13-03-2021 11:29pm

Outside of Rich Beem I'm not gone on any of them. They should bring back Monty.

Deeper Blue · 14-03-2021 12:03am

I'm a bit surprised Beem hasn't been poached by one of the American networks at this stage, he's as good as anyone on TV

Benicetomonty · 14-03-2021 9:06am

Deeper Blue wrote: »

Nick Dougherty is a brutal commentator. Truly atrocious.

Everyone else on the Sky team is very good imo, including Sarah Stirk.

I quite like Dougherty I must say. Far more capable as a presenter than I thought he'd be, self deprecating and likes to get the dig in (to Coltart in particular)!

He had a hard task to fill Livingstone"s shoes but he does it reasonably well, allbeit in his own way. He"s like the Gary Linekar to Livingstone's Des Lynam.

Deeper Blue · 14-03-2021 2:53pm

Benicetomonty wrote: »

I quite like Dougherty I must say. Far more capable as a presenter than I thought he'd be, self deprecating and likes to get the dig in (to Coltart in particular)!

He had a hard task to fill Livingstone"s shoes but he does it reasonably well, allbeit in his own way. He"s like the Gary Linekar to Livingstone's Des Lynam.

I like him as a presenter and interviewer, just not as a commentator

callaway92 · 14-03-2021 5:12pm

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I'm a bit surprised Beem hasn't been poached by one of the American networks at this stage, he's as good as anyone on TV

Getting paid a fortune by Sky

Stacksey · 14-03-2021 7:31pm

Nick Dougherty comes in on his day off to apologise if any golfer says a swear word, it could be midnight and there he is apologising to the viewers for a golfer saying sh*it, I don't get it

ClutchIt · 14-03-2021 11:28pm

Ya Dougherty a good presenter but bad commentator. Too repetitive and a bit of a goody goody.
Really like radar, and McGinley. Great coverage to be fair. Tough gig.

fred funk }{ · 14-03-2021 11:38pm

Stacksey wrote: »

Nick Dougherty comes in on his day off to apologise if any golfer says a swear word, it could be midnight and there he is apologising to the viewers for a golfer saying sh*it, I don't get it

This drives me nuts but they must be getting it in the ear from their bosses to do it.

Deeper Blue · 14-03-2021 11:38pm

How awkward must it be for Andrew Coltart when the other commentators say Westwood is "in such a happy place in his personal life these days"

Considering Westwood was previously married to Coltart's sister for 20+ years!

ligerdub · 14-03-2021 11:47pm

Deeper Blue wrote: »

How awkward must it be for Andrew Coltart when the other commentators say Westwood is "in such a happy place in his personal life these days"

Considering Westwood was previously married to Coltart's sister for 20+ years!

Yeah

To be fair it's clear to see, Westwood is loving life by the look of it and he's a great example for attitude on the course.

In fairness to Coltart he is a real pro and there's no obvious bitterness towards Westwood. I'm not sure how that relationship finished up but I'd hope Coltart and Westwood at least are on decent terms.

hurikane · 14-03-2021 11:55pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

This drives me nuts but they must be getting it in the ear from their bosses to do it.

Communications regulator forces them to, they would be fined if the let it go unchecked.

Stacksey · 15-03-2021 12:10am

hurikane wrote: »

Communications regulator forces them to, they would be fined if the let it go unchecked.

I sometimes watch the coverage on the Golf Channel and there is no apologising for anything that's said

Benicetomonty · 15-03-2021 12:45am

Deeper Blue wrote: »

I like him as a presenter and interviewer, just not as a commentator

Much of a muchness surely? He's good at talking about golf on camera. Imo.

Compared to Beem and McGinely, he's epic. Beem like Radar, not so bad on course but poor in the box. Dont know why that is. McGinley cant even say "Very good" without being annoying. Makes way too many mistakes and, just like his apparent predecessor Bruce Critchley, is heavily dependent on Ewen Murray to either deflect or outright clean up after said mistakes.
Coltart isnt bad. Stirk is fairly reliable.

15-03-2021 10:32am

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Much of a muchness surely? He's good at talking about golf on camera. Imo.

Compared to Beem and McGinely, he's epic. Beem like Radar, not so bad on course but poor in the box. Dont know why that is. McGinley cant even say "Very good" without being annoying. Makes way too many mistakes and, just like his apparent predecessor Bruce Critchley, is heavily dependent on Ewen Murray to either deflect or outright clean up after said mistakes.
Coltart isnt bad. Stirk is fairly reliable.

I think McGinley is terrible. Too much reliance on talking about stats. He's obviously decided that that's his USP but he rarely comes out with anything insightful, which is disappointing for someone with his background and profile in the game.

Pdoghue · 15-03-2021 10:33am

I think Dougherty is very good both as a presenter and as a commentator. Very smooth, knowledgeable and witty. Look at most of them though; himself, Beem, and Coltart are all guys who gave up the tour for one reason or the other, probably not having fulfilled their potential in their own eyes at least, and that informs their commentary. Not so sure about when Riley gave it up. You get the impression that Dougherty and Coltart especially have chips on their shoulder about not having succeeded more as players; the banter between them reflects this. McGinley had a much more fulfilling career arguably, has the whole Ryder Cup experience which none of the others have, with the exception of Coltart, who got picked by James and then only played Tiger in the singles. I think there's a respect for McGinley from Dougherty and Coltart, but they wouldn't admit it.

ClutchIt · 15-03-2021 10:58am

Ya you can really hear the pain golf has given Dougherty a lot. Always sympathizing a lot with any mistakes. Sounds like he's been through the ringer with it. Def a nice fella, but just a bit too nicey nice for me. And so repetitive.

DuckSlice · 15-03-2021 11:17am

Was it me or was their favourite word this weekend "Plethora", they seemed to say it every 5 minutes.

callaway92 · 15-03-2021 11:30am

I wonder how Coltart finds it commentating on Westwood when everyone is willing him on?

eagle eye · 15-03-2021 12:22pm

Dougherty is awful imo and Coltart is terrible too. I much rather the US commentary.

Deeper Blue · 15-03-2021 3:53pm

ClutchIt wrote: »

Ya you can really hear the pain golf has given Dougherty a lot. Always sympathizing a lot with any mistakes. Sounds like he's been through the ringer with it. Def a nice fella, but just a bit too nicey nice for me. And so repetitive.

He was on the Sky sports golf podcast a couple of years back to discuss his career in depth. It was a great listen but very sad. At one stage he was looking at youtube videos trying to find fixes for his swing!

Golf coverage/commentator discussion thread!! Mod note #12

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