Jack Charlton has died

Dayjur · 11-07-2020 12:23pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Not to take anything away from Charlton but we had a seriously talented group of players during his time which became somewhat blunted due to Jacks, er, robust tactics and style of play.

always one football manager hero

washman3 · 11-07-2020 12:25pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Not to take anything away from Charlton but we had a seriously talented group of players during his time which became somewhat blunted due to Jacks, er, robust tactics and style of play.

Is that you Eamon..?

banie01 · 11-07-2020 12:33pm

Dayjur wrote: »

always one football manager hero

The funny thing is, Charlton's tactics used in the current game?

Would be called the high press and fast transition.

"Long ball" lessens the actual impact of what he achieved and over simplifies it.
Recognising our immediate attributes and as Jack was fond of saying.
Imposing our game on the opposition.

Strumms · 11-07-2020 12:34pm

Prior to Jack Ireland had never qualified for a FIFA World Cup or a European Championship. That’s how little impact football in Ireland had on the international stage.

In 1988 we qualified for the euros. Acquitted ourselves well. In 1990 we qualified, reached the quarter final of the World Cup, narrowly loosing to Italy. We went from practically a team there to make up the numbers to being one of the last 8 teams in the competition. Imagine we were a goal or two from a World Cup semi final. That’s what Jack and the lads did for us. 1990 was a summer of pure joy...the happiness

1994 I was over in New York, there only a teenager...Ray Houghton scored at the other end of Giants stadium, place went mad. The sheer amount of happiness enjoyed by Irish people that day and for a while to come was unmatched...

The impact Jack had on many of our lives, our enjoyment, excitement and joy of being Irish... great times, he was a great guy..uncompromising, driven, smart and a gent.

Church on Tuesday · 11-07-2020 12:38pm

Dayjur wrote: »

always one football manager hero

It's a myth that Ireland had a poor squad and had to be plucky just because Jack was brought in, anyone with even a passing interest in football would tell you that.

We had players that could actually play football, all of them or most playing for the top sides in England.

That doesn't tally with the whole Ole Ole nonsense though.

Dayjur · 11-07-2020 12:40pm

banie01 wrote: »

The funny thing is, Charlton's tactics used in the current game?

Would be called the high press and fast transition.

"Long ball" lessens the actual impact of what he achieved and over simplifies it.
Recognising our immediate attributes and as Jack was fond of saying.
Imposing our game on the opposition.

it certainly is used and unfortunately with devastating efficiency in the current liverpool team

Strumms · 11-07-2020 1:01pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It's a myth that Ireland had a poor squad and had to be plucky just because Jack was brought in, anyone with even a passing interest in football would tell you that.

We had players that could actually play football, all of them or most playing for the top sides in England.

That doesn't tally with the whole Ole Ole nonsense though.

True...Eoin Hand had players who could play too, at the peak of their powers, but he wasn’t chartering a jet to a World Cup or Euros...

https://www.11v11.com/teams/republic-of-ireland/tab/players/season/1986/

United, Liverpool, Celtic, Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle players...

anewme · 11-07-2020 1:01pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It's a myth that Ireland had a poor squad and had to be plucky just because Jack was brought in, anyone with even a passing interest in football would tell you that.

We had players that could actually play football, all of them or most playing for the top sides in England.

That doesn't tally with the whole Ole Ole nonsense though.

A team can achieve nothing without a leader, no matter how much talent any individual has. Just heard John Aldridge say on the news that the team would do anything for him. Paul McGrath just described losing a father figure. That’s what gets results.

What he brought to Our country is way beyond football. He taught us we can dream big and achieve at a time when we most needed it.

Today is a day for Ole, Ole, Ole.

mick087 · 11-07-2020 1:08pm

God is dead.

The memory of beating in England 1988 as a kid will stay with me for ever.
My parents and brothers was screaming and shouting dancing it was fantastic.
That game changed football in Ireland, Football in Ireland then exploded.

1990 will never ever be surpassed, as a kid Dad came home early from work and we all went to the pub to it was late.
The parties the flags i think 1990 was the best year in my life a year i wont ever forget.

Good or bad team what it did for the country was unbelievable at the time.

Jack is a football legend for Ireland

itac · 11-07-2020 1:11pm

Damien360 wrote: »

Has anyone found the original clip of Jack at the Aviva. I remember seeing it on TV at the time on rte news I think and there was no stupid commentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Some commentary on this link that someone shared on twitter earlier, but you can hear the crowd break into another “We’re all part of Jackie’s army...” toward the end.

It’s so difficult to put into words how much he meant, and will always mean to a nation of dreamers who he helped become achievers. I don’t remember ‘88 properly but I remember so well how Italia 90 changed & united us so much at a time when we really needed it.
He really was something else, and the legacy he leaves behind is a testament to the great man he was.

This is it · 11-07-2020 1:16pm

itac wrote: »

Some commentary on this link that someone shared on twitter earlier, but you can hear the crowd break into another “We’re all part of Jackie’s army...” toward the end.

https://vimeo.com/130414914

It’s so difficult to put into words how much he meant, and will always mean to a nation of dreamers who he helped become achievers. I don’t remember ‘88 properly but I remember so well how Italia 90 changed & united us so much at a time when we really needed it.
He really was something else, and the legacy he leaves behind is a testament to the great man he was.

Wow, that's linked video is amazing. I'm not far off tears

PGE1970 · 11-07-2020 1:18pm

In 1990, Ireland was a depressing place to be. There were no jobs and we were, essentially, a third world country.

But the summer of 1990 was the most exciting time of my life. I was 20, on the dole, skint and there was f ** k all to look forward to.

And then we had the most magical 4 weeks ever. Where people cried, laughed and hugged. Where we stood up and were proud to be Irish.

The nation held its breath and we put 'em under pressure.

You had to be there.

RIP Jack. Thank you for giving the country hope.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 11-07-2020 1:20pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Not to take anything away from Charlton but we had a seriously talented group of players during his time which became somewhat blunted due to Jacks, er, robust tactics and style of play.

A lot of our most talented technical players were coming to end of their careers when Charlton came in... namely Brady and Whelan.

We tried to play technical passing football under previous managers like Giles and Eoin Hand, but got nowhere with it.

Your view is quite typical of the (admittedly small) cohort of football revisionists in this country, who think Charlton underachieved. When in fact his record suggests that he actually overachieved.

This attitude is mostly just borne out of the fact that people found his style of football to be unsophisticated and uncultured. It's football snobbery basically... and you guys are incapable of looking beyond what you see as an ugly style of play, and recognising that it was hugely effective and efficient.

But this is actually part of the reason I loved Big Jack... he put a lot of people's noses out of joint... he did it HIS way, and all the football snobs and purists simply had to sit there bite their lip and accept it... because we got results and nobody enjoyed playing against us!

TheValeyard · 11-07-2020 1:23pm

RIP Jack. Legend of a man. We really were part of the team in the 90s

Masala · 11-07-2020 1:24pm

There’s a lovely bronze statue of him fishing at cork Airport. A fitting tribute.

I will always cherish my OPEL jersey. Wouldn’t sell it for all the tea in Yorkshire

Beechwoodspark · 11-07-2020 1:25pm

RIP Big Jack and condolences to his family

Best manager of Ireland during my time watching the national team. And a great character.

Temptamperu · 11-07-2020 1:26pm

I havent been a football fan since 1990. This news sure smarts though.

Masala · 11-07-2020 1:27pm

Will Michael D go over for funeral.... it deserves a big representative from Ireland to say THANKS JACK

SEPT 23 1989 · 11-07-2020 1:45pm

Masala wrote: »

Will Michael D go over for funeral.... it deserves a big representative from Ireland to say THANKS JACK

He loves his football so I'm sure he will

Heckler · 11-07-2020 1:48pm

This was along with Jacks Army the anthem. Nancy spains back bar big screen. 17 years old. Jesus Christ when did I get old....

Mysterypunter · 11-07-2020 1:50pm

Masala wrote: »

Will Michael D go over for funeral.... it deserves a big representative from Ireland to say THANKS JACK

Must do surely, Jack was a real credit to himself and England, and embraced the culture and customs of this country without any bull or politics, was a straight talker, and a clever thinker, way ahead of what the perception of him was as a manager, he got the best out of his players, trusted them to do a job, and they all bought into his vision, the kick and rush nonsense was correct to a degree, but it was the likes of Dunphy, a bitter man who had very little pedigree in the game, who tried to enhance his profile by baiting Jack Charlton. They played some very good stuff, and achieved incredible results, if you want style points, watch ballet dancing or gymnastics, there is more than one way to play, and he found a winning system. Ireland had a great generation of players, but they may have been wasted without Jack, who was the glue to stick them all together. Add this to the fact that the FAI are a shambolic organisation, and that might give you an idea of the magnitude of that team and their achievements. On the Wednesday after beating England at Euro 88, they outplayed The USSR, who were a very strong side, and were desperately unlucky to draw 1-1. The following Saturday, needing a draw to reach the semi finals, Ireland were undone by a horrible spinning freak goal, by the Dutch, who were 0-0 for 82 minutes. The tournament concluded with the Dutch winning, defeating USSR 2-0, including a fantastic Marco Van Basten goal. The finalists were both in Irelands group, and Ireland more than held their own against them. This was not kick and rush football at all. More importantly it gave the players belief that they could compete at a high level, and raised expectations, Jack and the team gave us hope for the future, he was a hugely positive influence, and the memories he left behind will live forever. RIP, and thanks Jackie.

Church on Tuesday · 11-07-2020 1:51pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

A lot of our most talented technical players were coming to end of their careers when Charlton came in... namely Brady and Whelan.

We tried to play technical passing football under previous managers like Giles and Eoin Hand, but got nowhere with it.

Your view is quite typical of the (admittedly small) cohort of football revisionists in this country, who think Charlton underachieved. When in fact his record suggests that he actually overachieved.

This attitude is mostly just borne out of the fact that people found his style of football to be unsophisticated and uncultured. It's football snobbery basically... and you guys are incapable of looking beyond what you see as an ugly style of play, and recognising that it was hugely effective and efficient.

But this is actually part of the reason I loved Big Jack... he put a lot of people's noses out of joint... he did it HIS way, and all the football snobs and purists simply had to sit there bite their lip and accept it... because we got results and nobody enjoyed playing against us!

People tend to confuse a cultural zeitgeist moment for a nation with the hard facts of Charlton's time as manager. The passing of time and over sentimentality has no doubt played a part in this.

Obviously under Jack there were some great moments; beating England and the most memorable of all, beating Italy in the Giants Stadium are, in and of themselves, outstanding sporting achievements.

However the football deployed under Charlton was dire. Like really dire. Which is a shame because we actually had some very talented players, who under a better manager could have literally achieved anything.

People point out Hand and Giles; neither were exceptional by any standard as managers and were seen as relatively safe bets by the FAI at the time, as was Jack. The man achieved his initial remit; get Ireland to a major tournament and he did just that and even repeated it on another two occasions, which is a fair achievement, but lets not fool ourselves here that the man is/was the savior of Irish football when the talent was already there but essentially wasted by the conservatism and usual shortsightedness of the FAI.

But sure look, Ole Ole away.

Heckler · 11-07-2020 1:55pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

People tend to confuse a cultural zeitgeist moment for a nation with the hard facts of Charlton's time as manager. The passing of time and over sentimentality has no doubt played a part in this.

Obviously under Jack there were some great moments; beating England and the most memorable of all, beating Italy in the Giants Stadium are, in and of themselves, outstanding sporting achievements.

However the football deployed under Charlton was dire. Like really dire. Which is a shame because we actually had some very talented players, who under a better manager could have literally achieved anything.

People point out Hand and Giles; neither were exceptional by any standard as managers and were seen as relatively safe bets by the FAI at the time, as was Jack. The man achieved his initial remit; get Ireland to a major tournament and he did just that and even repeated it on another two occasions, which is a fair achievement, but lets not fool ourselves here that the man is/was the savior of Irish football when the talent was already there but essentially wasted by the conservatism and usual shortsightedness of the FAI.

True but **** it. Not a footie fan but he engendered a collective sense of fun and hopefulness and just a happy time for the nation. Leave the dissection till later.

iguana · 11-07-2020 1:58pm

Can you buy Put 'Em Under Pressure in itunes? If you do, does it count for the charts? I was thinking that as we're still quite limited in how we can pay our respects, getting it to number one could be something we could do.

DrGreenThumb82 · 11-07-2020 1:59pm

Absolute legend. We were in school one day and the headmaster announced that there were buses outside and we were going on a surprise trip somewhere...turns out it was a short trip down the road to a pub...to meet Jack Charlton. This was right after Italia 90. Place went mental. It was Big Jack just swarmed by ankle biters. He didn't know what to do! Met everyone and handed us all a signed photo. Kids were wrapped around his legs so he couldn't run off &#55358;&#56611;. Jesus the excitement was off the charts.

I was 8 then. Woke up to the news this morning and was so saddened by it.

You had to experience Italia 90 to understand. Pure magical time in Ireland.

Fellas were getting stranded in Italy with no money and trying to get people to send over money so they could stay on for the next game. It was unbelievable stuff.

PTH2009 · 11-07-2020 2:07pm

legend of a man

Changed football culture in this country

ChelseaRentBoy · 11-07-2020 2:13pm

PGE1970 wrote: »

In 1990, Ireland was a depressing place to be. There were no jobs and we were, essentially, a third world country.

But the summer of 1990 was the most exciting time of my life. I was 20, on the dole, skint and there was f ** k all to look forward to.

And then we had the most magical 4 weeks ever. Where people cried, laughed and hugged. Where we stood up and were proud to be Irish.

The nation held its breath and we put 'em under pressure.

You had to be there.

RIP Jack. Thank you for giving the country hope.

As someone said earlier you had to live through it to know what it meant to the citizens of this nation. It genuinely was a turning point for the country and personally I don't give a hoot about the begruders who say we played crap football and could have done better.

People who understand, understand and those that don't never will.

11-07-2020 2:35pm

Spare a thought for any of us born in the late 1980s or later. We grew up with Mick McCarthy and Saipan was our Stadio Olimpico, the whole 2002 tournament was marred even before it began, despite some good performances.

I think the 1990 World Cup had as much to do with Ireland's growing sense of confidence after a decade of recession and emigration, and people saw something in Jack Charlton that embodied that confidence, maybe.

Snow Garden · 11-07-2020 2:44pm

RIP Jack.

You gave us memories we will never forget.

ThewhiteJesus · 11-07-2020 2:50pm

I doubt bobby will go to the funeral

Doublebusy · 11-07-2020 2:53pm

A legend

anewme · 11-07-2020 2:54pm

iguana wrote: »

Can you buy Put 'Em Under Pressure in itunes? If you do, does it count for the charts? I was thinking that as we're still quite limited in how we can pay our respects, getting it to number one could be something we could do.

Saw a campaign about getting the flags and bunting out on the day of the funeral as well.

Snow Garden · 11-07-2020 2:54pm

I remember the games being so tense in the pub that you'd celebrate winning a corner like you'd scored a screamer of a goal.

selwyn froggitt · 11-07-2020 2:57pm

https://twitter.com/JohnMoynes/status/1281870119086559233

JupiterKid · 11-07-2020 2:59pm

A legend of a man who transformed our football team and gave us hope when there was very little hope to be had. I remember Italia '90 so well.

RIP Jack. You left a big legacy and will not be forgotten.

An Ri rua · 11-07-2020 3:06pm

silverharp wrote: »

I was just showing my son the highlights from world cup 1990 during the week , what a summer

RIP Jack. Great days. All the more heightened by the stagnation of those times versus now.
I was 17, just finished the Leaving and I recall the excitement of Italy, Pavarotti belting it out, Terminator 2 in the cinema and ...the Beat on the Street !

Great day's, as was summer 94 even if it went pear shaped.

Arghus · 11-07-2020 3:06pm

RIP Big Man.

An Ri rua · 11-07-2020 3:12pm

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Did more for this country than any political leader ever has.

R. I. P. Jack.

Almost true. Except for Sean Lemass. Steady on now.

An Ri rua · 11-07-2020 3:19pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Spare a thought for any of us born in the late 1980s or later. We grew up with Mick McCarthy and Saipan was our Stadio Olimpico, the whole 2002 tournament was marred even before it began, despite some good performances.

I think the 1990 World Cup had as much to do with Ireland's growing sense of confidence after a decade of recession and emigration, and people saw something in Jack Charlton that embodied that confidence, maybe.

Does your parent know you're using their phone?

Rubberlegs · 11-07-2020 3:21pm

An Ri rua wrote: »

RIP Jack. Great days. All the more heightened by the stagnation of those times versus now.
I was 17, just finished the Leaving and I recall the excitement of Italy, Pavarotti belting it out, Terminator 2 in the cinema and ...the Beat on the Street !
Great day's, as was summer 94 even if it went pear shaped.

Me too to all of the above

I've never been a football fan but even if you weren't you were drawn into the excitement of it all, a great time to be 17. RIP Jack Charlton.

Beechwoodspark · 11-07-2020 3:31pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

I doubt bobby will go to the funeral

Why? He’s his brother

is_that_so · 11-07-2020 3:34pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Why? He’s his brother

There was a long-running feud. Seems they were seen in public together in 2018.

ThewhiteJesus · 11-07-2020 3:36pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Why? He’s his brother

Ask bobbys wife

Strumms · 11-07-2020 4:08pm

Bobby’s wife and Jack and Bobby’s mother didn’t see eye to eye which caused some tension I have read.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 11-07-2020 4:23pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

People tend to confuse a cultural zeitgeist moment for a nation with the hard facts of Charlton's time as manager. The passing of time and over sentimentality has no doubt played a part in this.

Obviously under Jack there were some great moments; beating England and the most memorable of all, beating Italy in the Giants Stadium are, in and of themselves, outstanding sporting achievements.

However the football deployed under Charlton was dire. Like really dire. Which is a shame because we actually had some very talented players, who under a better manager could have literally achieved anything.

People point out Hand and Giles; neither were exceptional by any standard as managers and were seen as relatively safe bets by the FAI at the time, as was Jack. The man achieved his initial remit; get Ireland to a major tournament and he did just that and even repeated it on another two occasions, which is a fair achievement, but lets not fool ourselves here that the man is/was the savior of Irish football when the talent was already there but essentially wasted by the conservatism and usual shortsightedness of the FAI.

But sure look, Ole Ole away.

That has to be one of the most cynical summations of the Charlton era I've ever read...

It's all well and good saying we had great players AFTER Charlton comes in and gets us to several major tournaments. I wonder would you have been sitting their saying how great and talented our players were, when we were perpetually failing to qualify for every tournament!? (Like I said, you are practicing some very grand and elaborate revisionism!)

The football wasn't dire either btw. It was functional, but we actually had plenty of exciting moments in those years.

And despite being very functional style tactics, I really don't think Charlton got enough credit for the intelligence behind our strategy. There was a fair amount of thought behind the way we played, and how to stop other teams from playing their own game too!

Trapattoni even attempted to replicate the Charlton tactics towards the end of his tenure with Ireland, but actually didn't seem to fully understand how to implement that style... something I've always found quite amusing tbh, considering Trapattoni is widely considered to be one of the sharpest tactical minds in the history of European football.

Tellyium · 11-07-2020 4:37pm

Rest in Peace Jack. I’m old enough to remember the absolute euphoria the entire country experienced in 88,90 and even 94. Seeing clips now still brings a huge smile.
The kids love when I sing the chorus of Give it a lash Jack. Must explain to them who Jack was and how he brought such happiness to an entire nation.

Lucy8080 · 11-07-2020 5:15pm

Liam Brady story about Jack.....

Jack Charlton's first words to me were, "You're number eight,Ian." I said, "Ian Brady was the Moors Murderer ,Jack."

R.I.P. Big Jack.

FixdePitchmark · 11-07-2020 5:16pm

RIP jack - it is often forgotten looking at that footage - he was an outstanding player too.

I shed a few tears today - it is not just about Jack, it is about you and your life, your family , your dreams , your father, your friends, your happiness , your ambition, your Roddy Doyle admiration, your brother's wedding and the match, your first Irish Shirt , your first Idol, your first kiss, your first match, your first trip away , your first drink , your first big failure, your lost friends, your lost love ones.

I know that these are mostly masculine conditions. Joe O'Connor wrote well about it - "The Irish Male".

People go - it is only poxy football who cares. But there was something deep inside me that I can not explain during them moments . A level of pride that has simply been impossible to find at times.

Incredible stuff on the radio today , this will grow as week goes. We kinda need a funeral for this one.

I didn't know much about him as a person - he kinda came across as a cantankerous moody dude.

But - the stuff people were saying , was a very different picture. His human side.

But - it is not just about Jack, there is a little bit of that time in anyone who was around. That has just come back in such a powerfull way today.

Thanks Jack.

dublinman1990 · 11-07-2020 5:21pm

I'm heartbroken after reading that Jack Charlton has died.

I was only a little baby when Italia 90 was with us and I was 4 years old when USA 94 was around which lead me to not remembering much of it. But seeing all of the past memories from Euro 88, Italia 90 & USA 94 leads me with the belief that a man like Jack Charlton had lead our country to a wonderful legacy that couldn't be matched at the time for all of us to enjoy & to savour. It was simply a wonderful time to be an Irish football fan in that period. He had a real sense of deserved authority in how to act like an honorary Irishman right in front of us. To be with Jack Charlton would give you the same feeling as being cloud 9.

As I have never met the man himself. The news of his death today did leave me with some tears. I will miss him greatly. RIP Jack. You were a great legend.

EmmetSpiceland · 11-07-2020 5:37pm

As both an Ireland and Leeds fan this is terribly sad news. It’s been a “surreal” day. Went a bit numb when I heard the news.

Really took the shine off the day when the old boy was going to be showing off his brand new Lexus.

RIP Big Jack.

Jack Charlton has died

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