elections and cycling

Mr. Grieves · 30-04-2019 11:00pm

Rechuchote wrote: »

Is Catherine Conroy the freel who writes for the Times sometimes?

I think you're thinking of Deirdre Conroy (FF) who's running on the single issue of opposing Bus Connects in Rathgar.

LeinsterDub · 30-04-2019 11:16pm

Rechuchote wrote: »

Is Catherine Conroy the freel who writes for the Times sometimes?

As for Dunville Avenue, the plan was going to be pretty terrible for the locality. Bunches of kids unable to ride their bikes to Gonzaga, Louis, Alex, etc, the two ends of Dunville utterly blocked except for lifts (which they have in Beechwood and are regularly out of service at night and weekends).

There was an option for an underpass I believe

magicbastarder · 01-05-2019 5:02pm

actually, what about the european elections? i'd assume/hope ciaran cuffe was the most cycling-friendly of the candidates.

though i do have a vaguely bike related anecdote about alice mary higgins; she was sharing a house with a friend many years ago and arrived home one day on the bike with a straw bale attached to her carrier. and headed back to pick up a second where she found the first, so they could have something to sit on when sitting in the back garden.
i'd guess that it's not easy to cycle a bike with a straw bale on the back, they're a bit unwieldy.

Rechuchote · 02-05-2019 8:18am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There was an option for an underpass I believe

Yeah. Locals complained that it would be unsafe and insanitary - they already suffer from post-pub pissers watering their gardens, and they figured yoofs would hang around waiting to mug people in the underpass, in much the same way they do by the canal in Clondalkin.

blackwhite · 02-05-2019 8:44am

Rechuchote wrote: »

Yeah. Locals complained that it would be unsafe and insanitary - they already suffer from post-pub pissers watering their gardens, and they figured yoofs would hang around waiting to mug people in the underpass, in much the same way they do by the canal in Clondalkin.

Yes - Ranelagh & Rathmines do suffer from the same kind of social problems as Clondalkin.

The plan was going to impact a small, but vocal, group who don't want to loose the shortest driving route possible - for any period of time at all.

Anything that catered for cycling & pedestrians but didn't retain the driving option was going to be opposed. Anything that didn't maintain the driving option whilst works were ongoing was going to be opposed

buffalo · 02-05-2019 9:32am

Has anyone posted this for Dublin yet?

https://dublininquirer.com/projects/elections/2019-local

Not all candidates have responded, but here's a promising-looking example:

https://dublininquirer.com/projects/elections/2019-local/candidates/neasa-hourigan

Rechuchote · 02-05-2019 9:41am

buffalo wrote: »

Has anyone posted this for Dublin yet?

https://dublininquirer.com/projects/elections/2019-local

Not all candidates have responded, but here's a promising-looking example:

https://dublininquirer.com/projects/elections/2019-local/candidates/neasa-hourigan

Nope. She's winging it, as evidenced by the request for "A clear plan for cycling infrastructure".

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Written_Report.pdf

ednwireland · 02-05-2019 10:26am

honestly who thinks the green party will do anything if they got into a coalition.

they didnt exactly do a lot the last time (apart form stay long enough to get pensions)

they talk the talk but ....

i71jskz5xu42pb · 02-05-2019 10:51am

ednwireland wrote: »

honestly who thinks the green party will do anything if they got into a coalition.

These are local elections.
Where does coalition come into it?

magicbastarder · 02-05-2019 10:56am

it's the job of the junior partner in a coalition to take the blame for the sins of the senior partner. when has it ever been otherwise?

AndrewJRenko · 02-05-2019 11:38am

ednwireland wrote: »

honestly who thinks the green party will do anything if they got into a coalition.

they didnt exactly do a lot the last time (apart form stay long enough to get pensions)

they talk the talk but ....

I'm not their biggest fan, but they did deliver the bike to work scheme, which has transformed the retail sector over the last ten years or so.

Weepsie · 02-05-2019 11:51am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm not their biggest fan, but they did deliver the bike to work scheme, which has transformed the retail sector over the last ten years or so.

and perhaps more importantly got a lot of people back cycling, me included.

magicbastarder · 02-05-2019 12:16pm

they also were in power during the switch to emissions based road tax. and ban of incandescent light bulbs (a bugbear of brexiteers in the UK, i believe, but we can't blame the irish greens for that).

mr spuckler · 02-05-2019 1:02pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

they also were in power during the switch to emissions based motor tax. and ban of incandescent light bulbs (a bugbear of brexiteers in the UK, i believe, but we can't blame the irish greens for that).

:rolleyes:

magicbastarder · 02-05-2019 1:09pm

whoops!

i71jskz5xu42pb · 02-05-2019 2:43pm

Apart from the switch to emissions based motor tax, ban of incandescent light bulbs and the bike to work scheme what did the *junior* partner in government do for us?

blackwhite · 02-05-2019 2:55pm

Royce Helpless Carrousel wrote: »

Apart from the switch to emissions based motor tax, ban of incandescent light bulbs and the bike to work scheme what did the *junior* partner in government do for us?

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To be fair - calling it emissions based motor tax is being very generous.

It's a CO2 emissions based motor tax, that not only ignores the significantly more harmful emissions of other compounds (NOx in particular) but actually inadvertently encouraged car buyers to switch to higher-NOx emitting vehicles.

I certainly wouldn't be calling it out as a policy "win" for the Greens

i71jskz5xu42pb · 02-05-2019 3:45pm

blackwhite wrote: »

It's a CO2 emissions based motor tax, that not only ignores the significantly more harmful emissions of other compounds (NOx in particular) but actually inadvertently encouraged car buyers to switch to higher-NOx emitting vehicles.

I certainly wouldn't be calling it out as a policy "win" for the Greens

Agree with you there but we have the benefit of hindsight now. Open to correction but I don't think this was know/expected at the time.

ednwireland · 02-05-2019 4:05pm

I can't forgive them for introducing the post 2008 co2 tax which created a two tier tax system which was basically ff trying to boost the new car trade rather than trying to encourage everyone to drive lower co2 emission cars (obviously hindsight and nox excepted now).
bike to work and bulbs is a bit meh in my opinion.

although I accept they were the junior partner and s**t was hitting the fan at the time.

not seen any bike policies up here yet from current candidates

magicbastarder · 02-05-2019 4:08pm

Royce Helpless Carrousel wrote: »

Agree with you there but we have the benefit of hindsight now. Open to correction but I don't think this was know/expected at the time.

also, you've got to throw in a criminal conspiracy by multiple major car manufacturers in relation to NOX levels into the mix...

blackwhite · 02-05-2019 4:50pm

Royce Helpless Carrousel wrote: »

Agree with you there but we have the benefit of hindsight now. Open to correction but I don't think this was know/expected at the time.

It was known - just ignored because CO2 was the only focus for the Greens at the time.

EU regulations had been increasing the focus on NOx since the early 2000s (EURO 3 Regs in particular being first notible reglations - effective 2001).

Note that the VW emissions cheating only began in 2008/9 - after the Green had brought in their changes - so it's more than a bit of a red herring to suggest that it had any influence on their crappy policy!

cdaly_ · 02-05-2019 5:08pm

blackwhite wrote: »

To be fair - calling it emissions based motor tax is being very generous.

It's a CO2 emissions based motor tax, that not only ignores the significantly more harmful emissions of other compounds (NOx in particular) but actually inadvertently encouraged car buyers to switch to higher-NOx emitting vehicles.

OTOH, climate change is the biggest and most dangerous hazard of our time and NOx at lower levels of the atmosphere may contribute to faster reduction of methane, CO2-based motor tax is probably still a net gain...

blackwhite · 02-05-2019 5:18pm

cdaly_ wrote: »

OTOH, climate change is the biggest and most dangerous hazard of our time and NOx at lower levels of the atmosphere may contribute to faster reduction of methane, CO2-based motor tax is probably still a net gain...

Whatever NOx may do - we know what it does do - kill people. It greatly reduces lung function, and can be directly linked to athsma and other respiratory illnesses.
It also indirectly leads to increased CO2 levels, because it greatly impacts on vegetation through leaf damage and causing stunted growth in vegetation.

Also - it's not a zero sum game - any system that targets one, but incentivises the other (intentionally or otherwise) is patently stupid. Linking motor tax to the combination of levels specified in the Euro regs would have been a more sensible approach (with lower taxes for any vehicles that outperformed the Euro reg targets) - but was rejected because of (among other reasons) the motor industry lobbying.

Rechuchote · 04-05-2019 9:58pm

I'll happily vote for any candidate who will work to ban car ads. Why are we advertising cars when their emissions are now known to be a large causative factor in heart disease, cancer, childhood asthma, and brain shrinkage and lung shrinkage in children?

El Tarangu · 04-05-2019 10:28pm

Dermot Lacey, the Dublin councillor, seems like a nice man and an extremely dedicated public servant, but I feel like he 'talks the talk', but doesn't actually 'walk the walk' when it comes to cycling. He is at pains to stress that he cycles himself, etc., but for the two recent cycling-related initiatives that he has voted on that I am aware of, he has voted against them:

(i) the provision of bicycle racks in Sandymount (AFAIK a local pharmacy objected to the loss of car-parking spaces, and Lacey supported them), and

(ii) Paddy Smyth's quietway proposal

I read Michael Pidgeon's (Green Party, candidate for Dublin south west) answers to the Dublin Inquirer's questions for local election candidates, and found him fairly candid and articulate re: the necessity of giving up some of vast amount of infrastructure dedicated to cars to facilitate cycling.

[disclaimer: I have actually met Michael Pidgeon before in real life, but I was genuinely impressed with his responses; I don't actually know him well enough to shill for him on Boards]

DavyD_83 · 04-05-2019 10:36pm

Genuine, and possible stupid/ignorant question, but what per our authority do local councillors actually have?
Can they have a genuine impact on, for example, cycle infrastructure?
Would they have any ability to improve them or ensure that when installed the facilities are useful and practical?

Rechuchote · 04-05-2019 10:59pm

For instance, they could have made that quietway, allowing a safe route filtering through from Kimmage to Donnybrook.

They can decide where there is, or is not, bike parking (wouldn't it be nice to have parking outside Fallon & Byrne's in Rathmines, not to mention double the amount of Rathmines bike parking?) They can add orcas and bollards and kerbs to make bike lanes safe(r).

tomasrojo · 05-05-2019 1:24am

I think the Greens in their coalition years also contributed to the end of the statute that made use of cycle tracks mandatory. The National Cycling Framework, produced by that government, was well regarded when it came out, was very similar to the cycling part of the Greens' manifesto in the previous general election, and included a section on the problem with mandatory use of cycle tracks.

It's a pity that the Framework wasn't taken more seriously by subsequent governments, but there wasn't much the Greens could do after electoral wipe-out.

tomasrojo · 05-05-2019 1:42am

blackwhite wrote: »

To be fair - calling it emissions based motor tax is being very generous.

It's a CO2 emissions based motor tax, that not only ignores the significantly more harmful emissions of other compounds (NOx in particular) but actually inadvertently encouraged car buyers to switch to higher-NOx emitting vehicles.

I certainly wouldn't be calling it out as a policy "win" for the Greens

Ambient CO2 is pretty much harmless in terms of direct effect on human health, but enormously consequential in terms of climate destabilisation.

You know this; I just think describing NOx as significantly more harmful is only true if you restrict "harm" to direct effects on human health.

Encouraging use of diesel was a terrible idea though. I don't think we know the half of it yet.

i71jskz5xu42pb · 05-05-2019 8:33am

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Genuine, and possible stupid/ignorant question, but what per our authority do local councillors actually have?

Not a stupid question by a long shot. There's no straight answer that I know off but here's my view (open to correction on all of this).

In Dublin at least the council and the chief executive, Owen Keegan, split responsibilities.
The councillors functions are called reserved functions and outlined here on pg 5
This is a good basic overview of the areas the council is responsible for
The strategic policy committees seems to be one of the areas the councillors are more involved in
Obviously lots of national bodies (e.g. NTA) and the government itself that fund (and by definition direct) certain council initiatives.

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Can they have a genuine impact on, for example, cycle infrastructure?

Yes, unfortunately of late it seems to have been a genuine negative impact with councillors voting against progressing various cycling infrastructure proposals.

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Would they have any ability to improve them or ensure that when installed the facilities are useful and practical?

This I think might be more day to day stuff but they definitely have a way to raise such issues to Chief Exec's attention.

elections and cycling

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