Air Accident / Incident thread

Hotblack Desiato · 01-03-2021 4:21pm

No need to get personal or abusive.

If you want to think that the media always report aviation incidents accurately, that's up to you...

Also what is the relevance of an event which happened nearly ten years ago? Surely the cause was found long ago and any necessary steps taken. There are thousands upon thousands of PT6 engines in service around the world for decades.

Tenger · 01-03-2021 4:24pm

billy few mates wrote: »

You're going to look a bit thick when you read the final report on what happened...

We can all wait for the final report before pouring scorn on each other.
In the meantime we can debate the merits of various opinions without resorting to petty insults or insinuations.

01-03-2021 4:35pm

In the case of Air Transat Flight 236 they had quite a bit of surplus altitude to lose before a safe landing at Lajes air base on Terceira Island in the Azores. Resulted in a few silent circuits of the island ahead of touch down in a passenger jet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

Storm 10 · 01-03-2021 6:45pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Typical media BS

Power loss is not the same as power failure and I doubt they "glided it in" at any point.

According to Irish Military on line the learner pilot saw bits of the engine and oil coming out of the cowling definitely a dead engine.

billy few mates · 01-03-2021 11:34pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

No need to get personal or abusive.

If you want to think that the media always report aviation incidents accurately, that's up to you...

Also what is the relevance of an event which happened nearly ten years ago? Surely the cause was found long ago and any necessary steps taken. There are thousands upon thousands of PT6 engines in service around the world for decades.

Apologies for any offence caused but for some reason you seemed so sure the events as described couldn't have happened.
I don't believe everything I read in the papers, my prediction was based on facts which are out there not media speculation, although in this case their version of events will be shown to be more accurate than yours.
I also never referred to the incident ten years earlier, that was another poster.

The One Doctor · 01-03-2021 11:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the case of Air Transat Flight 236 they had quite a bit of surplus altitude to lose before a safe landing at Lajes air base on Terceira Island in the Azores. Resulted in a few silent circuits of the island ahead of touch down in a passenger jet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

That was an interesting one. The pilots were so distracted by the non-problem that they neglected the large fuel leak until it was too late.

They were very, very lucky.

roundymac · 02-03-2021 1:13pm

Are there ejection seats on the IAC PC-9s?

Hotblack Desiato · 02-03-2021 1:14pm

billy few mates wrote: »

I don't believe everything I read in the papers, my prediction was based on facts which are out there not media speculation, although in this case their version of events will be shown to be more accurate than yours.

But I didn't but forward a version of events, I only expressed doubt as to the accuracy of what sounded like a typical media hyped-up account.

I also never referred to the incident ten years earlier, that was another poster.

I know, thought that was clear enough for it to go without saying.

faoiarvok · 02-03-2021 1:59pm

roundymac wrote: »

Are there ejection seats on the IAC PC-9s?

Yes

Stovepipe · 02-03-2021 5:14pm

In a lot of situations, depending on the type of aircraft, it is standard practise to eject rather than attempt to force-land. With a propellor aircraft, the fear is that the prop could dig in and turn the aircraft over and the last place you want to be in a crash-landing is upside down in a canopy equipped aircraft.

billy few mates · 03-03-2021 5:06am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

But I didn't but forward a version of events, I only expressed doubt as to the accuracy of what sounded like a typical media hyped-up account.

I know, thought that was clear enough for it to go without saying.

Your version of events clearly dismisses the suggestion that the crew might have "glided it in at any point" solely because you read it in a newspaper article when that's exactly what happened.

You should ask the other poster why he made reference to the incident that happened in Australia ten years earlier on this thread if you don't see the relevance of it.

Hotblack Desiato · 03-03-2021 1:08pm

I did not put forward a version of events

I expressed doubt that the media version of events was accurate, it rarely is.

I did ask that but no answer has been forthcoming. To say there is a "question mark about the engine" on the basis of a single incident, ten years ago, when that engine has been in service for decades and over 50,000 produced, is completely ludicrous.

Larbre34 · 07-03-2021 8:25pm

A helicopter crash near Calvados, Normandy, France has claimed the life, among others, of M. Olivier Dassault, member of the French national assembly and member of the well known French aviation industry family.

No further details such as the helicopter type have been published as yet.

RIP

Stovepipe · 08-03-2021 11:40am

two dead, Dassault and the pilot.

Larbre34 · 08-03-2021 3:51pm

The type was a AS350 Squirrel. The incident occurred outside the channel coast resort of Deauville.

smurfjed · 09-03-2021 8:49am

AVHERALD really has some gems

:

Donghai Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration B-5311 performing flight DZ-6297 from Nantong to Xian (China), was enroute at 7800 meters (FL256) about 70 minutes into the 120 minute flight, when the captain decided to take a toilet break in the forward first class toilet and instructed a passenger waiting before the toilet to return to his seat. The captain entered the toilet, when he later left the passenger was still waiting before the toilet. The captain thus talked to the flight attendant stating the flight attendant hadn't done his job and he should have returned the passenger to his seat. A physical altercation developed which, according to Chinese media reports, resulted in the flight attendant's fracture of an arm and the captain's loss of a tooth. The captain returned to the cockpit, the flight landed without further incident in Xian.

On Mar 8th 2021 the airline posted an apology on Chinese social media accounts confirming the incident and stating that both the captain and the flight attendant had been suspended. Measures to prevent a recurrence have been taken along the lines of China's Civil Aviation Authority

JohnC. · 25-03-2021 11:40am

Royal Navy Hawk crashed in Cornwall. Crew ejected safely.

https://news.sky.com/story/raf-jet-crashes-after-crew-eject-12256136

Hotblack Desiato · 25-03-2021 1:17pm

smurfjed wrote: »

AVHERALD really has some gems :

Captain has been sent on a CRM refresher course

lintdrummer · 06-04-2021 10:05am

Ethiopian Airlines mistakenly lands at new airport under construction.

https://www.airlive.net/alert-an-ethiopian-airlines-boeing-737-has-landed-at-the-wrong-airport-in-zambia-under-view-of-construction-workers/

Shedite27 · 06-04-2021 11:37am

lintdrummer wrote: »

Ethiopian Airlines mistakenly lands at new airport under construction.

https://www.airlive.net/alert-an-ethiopian-airlines-boeing-737-has-landed-at-the-wrong-airport-in-zambia-under-view-of-construction-workers/

I read about this over the weekend, seems they are calling the new airport by the name that the old airport used to be called. The runways are the same heading too. Easy to say now but a mistake was waiting to happen

Also, some reports suggest that both airports recently changed names! Previously, the existing airport was the ‘Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe Airport’. It is now ‘Ndola International’. The new airport was ‘Copperbelt International Airport’, but it very recently became… ‘Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport’. If this report stands, it means that Ethiopian’s flights landed at (or approached) the wrong airport, which now has the name that the right airport used to have!

https://mentourpilot.com/wrong-airport-one-flight-lands-another-goes-around/

smurfjed · 06-04-2021 1:44pm

They will get screwed for landing and screwed even more a second time for taking off again.

lintdrummer · 06-04-2021 3:22pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

I read about this over the weekend, seems they are calling the new airport by the name that the old airport used to be called. The runways are the same heading too. Easy to say now but a mistake was waiting to happen

https://mentourpilot.com/wrong-airport-one-flight-lands-another-goes-around/

While that does make it a confusing scenario, it still looks like Ethiopian's SOPs leave a lot to be desired.

Surely the new airport has no functioning navaids (probably not even PAPIs) so it would be quite obvious that something was up.

They must have been making a visual approach but even still, top of the list of threats discussed in the approach brief would have to be the close proximity of another runway in the same orientation.

Storm 10 · 06-04-2021 3:36pm

Could be a very costly outcome for someone towbar broke

https://twitter.com/MaltaAvOutlook/status/1377944241872179206

smurfjed · 06-04-2021 3:49pm

The real airport only has a VOR approach and a NDB approach to one one of the runways. But even with this, the distance to the runway end would be available. There doesn’t appear to be any mention of the 2nd airport in Jeppesen.

This sort of thing keeps happening but it’s inexcusable with modern technology.

josip · 09-04-2021 11:15am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

cml387 · 09-04-2021 11:34am

josip wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

A bit of a non event. The faulty data meant that take off speed calculations were 1 knot off.

smurfjed · 10-04-2021 6:15am

cml387 wrote: »

A bit of a non event. The faulty data meant that take off speed calculations were 1 knot off.

In a world where we are still using average passenger weights as well as cabin baggage weights, I would guess that this is more common than people think.

deconduo · 10-04-2021 9:29am

smurfjed wrote: »

In a world where we are still using average passenger weights as well as cabin baggage weights, I would guess that this is more common than people think.

Why on earth would they use title to estimate weight instead of something like DOB? Seems like a crazy system.

smurfjed · 10-04-2021 10:17am

You are not obligated to give date of birth in a flight reservation (mostly)

10-04-2021 1:23pm

Boarding small aircraft there is a necessary weigh-in of passengers, eg the Islander. On the take-off run, as a passenger, you feel if the aircraft is heavy, as it bumps up and down on the gear quite sharply as it rolls when heavier.

Nijmegen · 10-04-2021 4:01pm

Interesting piece looking at volume of notices provided to pilots, denting their effectiveness and contributing to safety incidents.

https://twitter.com/maxk_j/status/1380878773420105734?s=21

IngazZagni · 10-04-2021 4:14pm

I have been saying this for years. Pages and pages of absolutely useless information within a set of notams and an actual important piece of information buried in the middle of it.
I know some operators have tried to highlight words like "closed" because it could relate to something important. They definitely need to reduce clutter.

smurfjed · 11-04-2021 1:53pm

Our NOTAMS are divided into departure ‘ destination alternate airports, followed by airspace, then enroute airspace. This is where it gets interesting, watching the countries like Greece and Turkey fighting through notams is mind numbing.

General Disarray · 11-04-2021 7:07pm

The alphabet vomit.

AnRothar · 12-04-2021 11:41am

smurfjed wrote: »

then enroute airspace. This is where it gets interesting, watching the countries like Greece and Turkey fighting through notams is mind numbing.

The joys of the provision of ATS in delegate airspace over international waters.
Or any disputed territory for that matter.

dilallio · 28-04-2021 1:27pm

Passenger throws coin into plane engine for 'good luck' :eek:

https://www.timesnownews.com/the-buzz/article/shocking-man-throws-coins-into-plane-engine-for-good-luck-airline-cancels-flight-for-safety-reasons/750012

A passenger hoping to fly with some good luck ended up having the entire flight cancelled after he threw coins into the engine of the plane. Yes, the passenger actually threw metallic coins into one of the propellors of the flight, thinking it can bring him good luck.

The incident reportedly took place at an airport in Weifang. A male passenger, identified with the last name Wang, was scheduled to fly from Weifang to Haiku on a Beibu Gulf Airlines flight GX8814 when he threw a handful of coins into the engine.

Fortunately, the staff was soon alerted about the coins in the engine after workers found coins on the ground during the pre-takeoff inspection.

Oscar Bravo · 28-04-2021 8:55pm

I think hes second name was Ker

Bsal · 30-04-2021 10:35pm

Hydrogen powered test aircaft crashed at Cranfield

https://www.bedfordindependent.co.uk/hydrogen-powered-plane-crashes-during-test-flight-at-cranfield/

lintdrummer · 13-05-2021 11:16pm

http://avherald.com/h?article=4e74b6e5&opt=0

Mid air collision involving a Cirrus and a MetroJet, incredible that everyone involved walked away.

14-05-2021 1:12am

lintdrummer wrote: »

http://avherald.com/h?article=4e74b6e5&opt=0

Mid air collision involving a Cirrus and a MetroJet, incredible that everyone involved walked away.

That was quite the spectacular escape. One that will go down in the annals of aviation accident history.

Stovepipe · 14-05-2021 2:11pm

The guys flying the Metroliner are probably earning less than the guy who owns the Cirrus. regional airline pay in the US is pretty poor.

mr.anonymous · 14-05-2021 3:51pm

Not many GA aircraft have an in-built parachute like the Cirrus. Perhaps another type would have had a different outcome.

14-05-2021 3:53pm

They were lucky for that outcome in the Metroliner, considering it has a reputation for being a bit unforgiving at the best of times, let alone when almost severed in two by the passage of another aircraft.

lintdrummer · 15-05-2021 11:28am

mr.anonymous wrote: »

Not many GA aircraft have an in-built parachute like the Cirrus. Perhaps another type would have had a different outcome.

There's a perception among some detractors that the parachute leads to poorer airmanship because the option to pull it and resolve an otherwise unrecoverable incident is there.

I don't buy that myself. I think it's unlikely anyone would be more cavalier in their flying because of the perceived get out of jail card the parachute offers. That's just madness.

Worth noting that the Metroliner was single pilot ops on a cargo flight. Guy was cool as a cucumber. I doubt there's even a door to the flight deck on that type, so he would have realised the cabin got a whole lot breezier all of a sudden.

joujoujou · 15-05-2021 1:09pm

lintdrummer wrote: »

[...] I doubt there's even a door to the flight deck on that type, so he would have realised the cabin got a whole lot breezier all of a sudden.

There's no door between pilots and passenger/cargo area.

xper · 15-05-2021 4:29pm

lintdrummer wrote: »

Worth noting that the Metroliner was single pilot ops on a cargo flight. Guy was cool as a cucumber. I doubt there's even a door to the flight deck on that type, so he would have realised the cabin got a whole lot breezier all of a sudden.

The ATC recordings suggest he thought he had a right engine failure but maybe there are elements missing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5tb2dVWJqc

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2021 6:38pm

Reminiscent of the "convertible" Aloha Airlines 737 :eek:

lintdrummer · 16-05-2021 5:56pm

xper wrote: »

The ATC recordings suggest he thought he had a right engine failure but maybe there are elements missing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5tb2dVWJqc

I'd say he did have right engine failure, probably ingested debris from the fuselage! Surprised on the audio it doesn't sound like there's much background noise, he's not even raising his voice.

cml387 · 18-05-2021 11:23am

Purely by coincidence last night I was watching a Youtube video of a Brit taking a Metroliner from Denver to the US's least-used lower 48 airport, somewhere in the boondocks of Nebraska. He was saying that the Metroliner was a rare bird now in the States.

Storm 10 · 14-06-2021 10:54am

Latest report published by the IAA

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/Final%20Report%202021-004_1.pdf

Air Accident / Incident thread

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