So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Which professionals?

I don't know them personally. Perhaps mac can enlighten us as he brought the issue into the thread.

macraignil wrote: »

I'm not saying that all engineers are always correct in their assessment of something as complex as traffic flow. I'm just saying from what I have seen there has been some miscalculation on the ability of the alternative routes to take the traffic that needs to reroute from Patrick Street. The quays traffic was already bad every evening and now the Patric's street change has made this even worse. Traveling from the south west side of the city to get to the north seems completely unworkable with the current system. Perhaps improving the light sequence at the opera house might make a difference. It seems the traffic light on the north side of the bridge is always on red to traffic crossing the bridge when it is green for traffic from the west. I'm not sure how this sequence effects the other directions but the current system is not working on the route I would take if I can't go along Patrick street. I'd be happy to avoid driving on Patrick street if there was a working alternative.

Any amount of planning must play second fiddle to real life experience in my opinion and if something is not working it should be changed.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Traffic light sequence changes, that's a positive contribution. This could be an issue. It certainly was in the case of Pope's Quay where many were blaming the new cycle lane for congestion, when the culprit was actually the sequence of the lights at the junction of Shandon Street and North Gate bridge. It's a good thing the professionals didn't back track on the cycle lane as this area has really blossomed since it's creation.

I think four days is a bit early to decide if something is working or not, especially as people need time to adjust to the new arrangement. Once people fall into a routine again congestion should ease.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

You stated that pros were involved. So just asking you to say who they are?

When I brought in the idea of professional engineers to the thread it was in relation to the north ring road plan and the engineer's names are on the front of the linked document.

opus wrote: »

Took me a second to remember why I was just able to cross the road without having to wait for a green light
.

Sounds like a normal day on Pana, even with traffic .with the amount of jaywalking that goes on at any rate.

Frostybrew wrote: »

I think four days is a bit early to decide if something is working or not, especially as people need time to adjust to the new arrangement. Once people fall into a routine again congestion should ease.

This +100
It is ridiculous to suggest reversing the measures due to failure after such a short period of time. We do not know what the effect of the measures are yet. To suggest the reversal so soon is the epitome of a knee jerk reaction.

whisky_galore wrote: »

It'll just move the problem somewhere else.
Small city with a limited number of routes to use, simple logic really.

It's always the 'stick' approach, punishing the motorist. Where's the 'carrot'? Where's the positive incentive to leave the car at home?

if the measure reduces bus journey times by ten minutes and increases the reliability of the bus that is an incentive to change mode.

Johngoose wrote: »

There is a reason that Cork people have such a dependency on cars. There is no credible public transport option that is totally reliable for most living outside the city centre. In Dublin the Luas green and red lines give a realistic alternative to driving a car, that is efficient and reliable.

A bus only Patrick St will go some way to making the bus a realistic alternative. The vast majority of Dublin's public transport users are using the bus which covers a much larger area than luas and dart services.

macraignil wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion. Going to try a variation of the Shandon Street route this week now so hoping this works to avoid the worst of the gridlock. Already have a monthly car park deal and if alternative route works out the current car park might still be viable. It's really the closest car park to work and the girlfriend is seriously against moving to one further away due to the extra walk in the rain.

This walk in the rain thing is gas. It doesn't rain as much as we think. I used to walk (about 30 mins) to the train station and back everyday when I commuted from the city to Cobh and never remember being bothered by the rain. I prefer driving from A-B though so can understand how you feel about not wanting to use public transport.

I don't know what to make of this Patrick street closure really. I think I've only driven through Patrick street once. I have noticed there always seems to be a Garda/traffic warden directing traffic on Grand Parade. Seems like a waste of resources, how long will that last?

I am extremely luckily with my commute to work. I commute from the city to the Northside and there are plenty of routes you can take to miss traffic. Usually takes me about 7 minutes depending on what Sunday's Well is like with people who don't think their cars with fit between other cars..

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I don’t understand this attitude. Are you happy to see other cities attract growth and jobs ahead of Cork?

Well when they don’t build the proper infrastructure to accommodate that growth then yes.

First time being in town yesterday to see it in action, got parking on the south mall but after 3pm there was still a lot of cars parked on Patrick St, I'm assuming they werent given tickets but whats the procedure here if you went off shopping at 1am and came back to you car after 3pm and had to go down Patrick St?

nostro wrote: »

Parents driving their children to school massively increases traffic congestion in Cork and Ireland.. Very different from most other European countries where allowing children go by themselves is used as a way to build Independence and increase fitness. Very much a cultural thing that we have imported from the states.

Cotton wool parenting. When I was in primary school the parents and neighbours used car-pool, in second level I was expected to cycle a few km to the bus stop and catch the bus.
Granted it was a rural area and we would bunk off for half the day at weekends or on school holidays. Now if a kid is out for more than a hour it's missing child stuff.

Ya, the two parking signs I seen we're revised to say it was pay and display or a loading zone up until 3, Mon - Sat.

nostro wrote: »

I wasn't talking about toddlers in creches. That's deliberately changing the issue. I was talking about children of school going age. In most European countries they go to school on their own. In Ireland they are often driven by their parents.

What is the average distance a kid has to travel from home to the school in Ireland and different European countries?

Believe me, parents would love to let the kids wander around - but often it simply is not an option.

Now you could argue that it rains here sometimes.

Not sometimes... Ireland has not only the highest rainfall in Europe, but the highest number of rainy days in Europe as well.

I hear Copenhagen a lot here.. It gets 522 mm of rainfall vs 755 mm for Dublin (which is one of the dryest places in Ireland)... Only Dutch cities (Rotterdam, Amsterdam etc.) are worthy contenders, but not to Galway, Limerick or even Cork.

My main problem with cycling in Cork is the hills. Many Cork suburbs are on hills not served by bicycle routes separated from normal traffic. Its not possible to keep a bicycle going at the same speed as normal traffic on a steep hill. It's simply dangerous and best avoided in my opinion. Cycling might be OK on some east west routes in the city centre but in Cork it is not going to be as much of an answer to public transport that it has been in other cities.

Criticising parents for giving their children a lift to school may be fair in some cases but for many it is the only viable option because of a variety of factors. The cost of owning a home in Ireland is such that many will not have purchased a home just because it was close to a school they could send their children to or in some cases not even because it was close to anything, with the price of well placed homes out of reach of many young families. Some areas also have schools that are known to be not very good and I wouldn't hold it against someone that they would want their children to go to a better school. There has also been the disparity between supply of non denominational schools and the demand. I could go on but to cut a long story short I just don't believe we can assume public transport will fit everyone's situation and we should be careful in any anti private transport measures we introduce as denying people freedom isn't going to lead to a better society even if some nanny state idealists would claim so.

FrStone wrote: »

Sure rapid growth means an increase in traffic, increasing urban sprawl leading to the countryside being destroyed and property prices increasing. There are plenty of good quality jobs in Cork as it stands. We need to be picky about what type of growth we need.
We don't have a north ring road to support the growth, or a motorway to Ringaskiddy (how long has that debacle gone on for) or the proper infrastructure to deal with Little Island.
The city council should be focussing where they have failed miserably for example Blackpool and not try and destroy whats remaining of the city centre.

Growth will be based in central areas particularly the Docklands, it'll be supported by improved public transport.

beer enigma wrote: »

Just seen that they are proposing to remove over 115 parking spaces along Morrissons Quay and Father Matthew Quay, can't see the logic there at all.

Good move, brave it has to be said. The less places to park = less car commutes. Needless to say the quayside should be a public amenity not a car park. Waterford ruined what should be a stunning public space with a big massive car park.