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JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

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    #1562
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Yeahhhhh we did that to death in the relevant thread, if you want to go down that rabbit hole again then post it in that thread instead of derailing this one.

    Funny man when you are the one who tried to derail this thread bringing up 9/11 and the mirror/ reflection. I made no mention of 9/11 until you tried to use is as tactic here.


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    #1563
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,429 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Funny man when you are the one who tried to derail this thread bringing up 9/11 and the mirror/ reflection. I made no mention of 9/11 until you tried to use is as tactic here.

    I bought that up as an example of how you choose to see what you want to see, you will make all sorts of ridiculous claims to make something suit your agenda.

    Glad you posted the picture though, it shows others what I meant :D


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    #1564
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I bought that up as an example of how you choose to see what you want to see, you will make all sorts of ridiculous claims to make something suit your agenda.

    Least you admit you raised an off topic point here first.

    Back to JFK.

    Don't you guys often make ridiculous claims about the magic bullet? Why does Gov Connelly own doctor scoff at the one bullet theory? He's a medical doctor with expertise and he says one bullet could not have caused the injuries seen that day? What your expert opinion with medical matters.? Why does Dr Shaw support the JFK conspiracy theory?


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    #1565
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Why does Dr Shaw support the JFK conspiracy theory?

    What conspiracy theory?

    This entire thread, like all others, is just an endless effort to attack the facts and cast doubt on the event whilst vaguely hinting at some wispy conspiracy that strangely never gets subjected to the same scrutiny, or even detailed.


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    #1566
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Nal of course will downplay this but Oswald last job before the Texas Book Depository was him working for the Reilly Coffee company. Diligent investigators have discovered it was a CIA front least back then in the 60s.
    Owned by William B. Reily, a financial supporter of the CIA-sponsored Cuban Revolutionary Council. A CIA memo dated January 31, 1964, that has since been declassified states "[Reily's] firm was of interest as of April 1949." CIA contractor Gerry Patrick Hemming also confirmed Reily's coordination with the CIA in a 1968 interview with the New Orleans District Attorney's Office, which "confirmed that William Reily had worked for the CIA for years." Reily's company was located close to the New Orleans offices of the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, and Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI).
    http://www.whokilledjfk.net/oswald_and_the_cia.htm

    Ruth Paine who got Oswald the job at the Texas book Depository, her history is interesting, the records have not come to light that show her Father, sister and sister law all worked for the CIA. Ruth Paine husband worked for a Aerospace Defense contractor

    Every aspect of Oswald life after returning from the Soviet Union has him meeting and friending people who had intelligence ties.


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    #1567
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,851 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What conspiracy theory?

    This entire thread, like all others, is just an endless effort to attack the facts and cast doubt on the event whilst vaguely hinting at some wispy conspiracy that strangely never gets subjected to the same scrutiny, or even detailed.

    What does metabunk say about JFK, or are they actually just like 'there is something here'


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    #1568
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What conspiracy theory?

    Dr Shaw spoke on video that Connelly rib injuries alone would have damaged the bullet. He says the bullet ripped out 10cm of the 5th rib it drove fragments into his chest. Left the chest and then struck the radius bone in his wrist. Then some small fragments of the bullet entered his thigh.

    Dr Shaws says there was too much bone damage and tissue damage here for this to be caused by the magic bullet he saw in the FBI archive.


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    #1569
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Overheal wrote: »
    What does metabunk say about JFK, or are they actually just like 'there is something here'

    I don't know, maybe Nal knows what the current "strongest" alternative theory is. But I have asked Cheerful before, and the list of characters in their theory is longer than the Onion's

    EKAgNkiXsAEBIhv.jpg


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    #1570
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Dr Shaw spoke on video that Connelly rib injuries alone would have damaged the bullet. He says the bullet ripped out 10cm of the 5th rib it drove fragments into his chest. Left the chest and then struck the radius bone in his wrist. Then some small fragments of the bullet entered his thigh.

    Dr Shaws says there was too much bone damage and tissue damage here for this to be caused by the magic bullet he saw in the FBI archive.

    Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question in the slightest


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    #1571
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question in the slightest

    It does answer it. Dr Shaw's opinion the bullet in the FBI archive is not the bullet that maimed Connelly in Dallas.

    The bullet in the archive supposedly if you believe the official account inflicted
    all injuries to both Kennedy and Connelly in the car that day?


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    #1572
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    It does answer it.

    It doesn't answer my question

    You wrote:
    Why does Dr Shaw support the JFK conspiracy theory?

    My question was, what is the JFK conspiracy theory?


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    #1573
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It doesn't answer my question

    You wrote:



    My question was, what is the JFK conspiracy theory?

    What is this always difficult for you? Gov Connelly Doctor at Parkland Hospital believes the bullet in the FBI archive is not the bullet that caused these injuries.

    Where the real bullet? Who planted the fake bullet later? How many bullets were fired that day at the car and was covered up?


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    #1574
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Nal of course will downplay this but Oswald last job before the Texas Book Depository was him working for the Reilly Coffee company. Diligent investigators have discovered it was a CIA front least back then in the 60s.


    http://www.whokilledjfk.net/oswald_and_the_cia.htm

    Ruth Paine who got Oswald the job at the Texas book Depository, her history is interesting, the records have not come to light that show her Father, sister and sister law all worked for the CIA. Ruth Paine husband worked for a Aerospace Defense contractor

    Every aspect of Oswald life after returning from the Soviet Union has him meeting and friending people who had intelligence ties.

    From your link. "Oswald also worked in the office of a detective and former FBI agent named Guy Banister."

    Thats a lie.

    The article also mentions "New Orleans District Attorney's Office" but dances around who it really was - Jim Garrison and doesn't mention him once because even the wildest conspiracy theorists know hes a joke.

    Nonsense.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    The crack is on the driver's window, so is not a waste of time. Privacy glass in the middle there or not makes no difference here to the original stated claim a bullet hit the front window.

    You claimed that it was impossible for the crack to have been caused from JFKs head/bullet as there was glass in the middle of the car.

    There was no glass in the middle of the car. You were 100% wrong. You either posted without checking or, what I suspect, you lied on purpose hoping no one would notice.

    As for a waste of time, I meant your posts are a waste of time.
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question in the slightest

    lol. I had to re read your question and Cheerfuls answer twice to see if I missed something but nope. Irrelevant off point general waffle yet again.


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    #1575
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    What is this always difficult for you? Gov Connelly Doctor at Parkland Hospital believes the bullet in the FBI archive is not the bullet that caused these injuries.

    Cool, he doubts it. People and experts can doubt stuff, and they can also be wrong. You can go to one doctor receive diagnosis X and go to an entirely different doctor and receive diagnosis Y. As always what matters is the consensus, not the individual.

    However you are claiming this doctor believes in a conspiracy theory, okay, which one?

    And while we're on this, why do you have a habit of scrutinizing every tiny detail of the main theory, but never of the so-called conspiracy theories?

    Once again, we're back in the land of mental Narnia, where you attack endlessly attack the facts of some historical event in order to hint at some vague theory you haven't the slightest bit of interest in detailing. That's not an interest in the truth, that's an interest in perpetual denial :)


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    #1576
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    From your link. "Oswald also worked in the office of a detective and former FBI agent named Guy Banister."

    Thats a lie.

    The article also mentions "New Orleans District Attorney's Office" but dances around who it really was - Jim Garrison and doesn't mention him once because even the wildest conspiracy theorists know hes a joke.

    Nonsense.



    lol. I had to re read your question and Cheerfuls answer twice to see if I missed something but nope.

    False, Garrison court trial collapsed when David Ferrie died. He was a key witness for the trial coming up linking Oswald to Guy Banister and Clay Shaw. Clay Shaw also lied under Oath he no association with the CIA and therefore Garrison could not prove the CIA/ Cuban conspiracy in court.

    We now have today- clear evidence Clay Shaw was an asset of the CIA.
    In 1996, the CIA revealed that Shaw had obtained a "five Agency" clearance in 1949

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_Shaw

    Multiple eyewitnesses saw Oswald in Guy Banister's office, but the Warren commission was not interested in that. Oswald pro Castro/ Cuban leaflets all stamped inside the same building where Guy had an office at was never investigated.


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    #1577
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Debunkers for years ridiculed the JFK community David Ferrie and Oswald never knew each other. Later a picture emerged showing Ferrie and Oswald in the same photograph.

    522388.png

    https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-fbi-knew-about-david-ferrie-on-11-22-63


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    #1578
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I don't know, maybe Nal knows what the current "strongest" alternative theory is.

    There isn't one really. Take your pick between the mob, CIA, Russia, Cuba et al but theres no evidence for any of them. 57 years later and not a jot of anyone but Oswald.


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    #1579
    patsman07
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭patsman07


    Cheerful Spring, just to take you up on your point about the magic bullet from the other thread.

    I agree that the 'pristine' bullet is suspicious and seems unlikely, but unlikely events happen all the time. For the magic bullet theory to be incorrect you have to account for where the bullet that exited Kennedy's throat went? it had to have hit something in the car surely?


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    #1580
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    patsman07 wrote: »
    Cheerful Spring, just to take you up on your point about the magic bullet from the other thread.

    I agree that the 'pristine' bullet is suspicious and seems unlikely, but unlikely events happen all the time. For the magic bullet theory to be incorrect you have to account for where the bullet that exited Kennedy's throat went? it had to have hit something in the car surely?

    There is a theory that the throat wound is an entrance wound. Again though, no evidence for it.


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    #1581
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    patsman07 wrote: »
    Cheerful Spring, just to take you up on your point about the magic bullet from the other thread.

    I agree that the 'pristine' bullet is suspicious and seems unlikely, but unlikely events happen all the time. For the magic bullet theory to be incorrect you have to account for where the bullet that exited Kennedy's throat went? it had to have hit something in the car surely?

    There is enough evidence now available, the conspiracy people are right and someone was touching Kennedy body before the Bethesda autopsy.

    The official account says Kennedy body was wrapped up in just White Sheets at Parkland Hospital and placed in an expensive bronze casket and nobody according to the official account opened the casket till it's arrival at Bethesda.

    In 2018 Richard Lipsey revealed something interesting during an interview that must people never caught.

    Background
    He was in charge of all the ceremonial duties of Washington, which included state funerals. When the president was assassinated, he was in charge of the funeral.
    https://www.225batonrouge.com/our-city/richard-lipsey-recalls-present-president-john-f-kennedys-autopsy

    Revealed in his interview here Kennedy was in a body bag when removed from the casket!! Where was the body switched from White sheets to a body bag? The body bag is not part of the official narrative, it something the JFK conspiracy people have written about happened though and confirmed by other people who worked at Bethesda they too saw Kennedy in a body bag. Debunkers have dismissed this as nonsense Kennedy was in a body bag.

    If someone was messing with the body, bullet fragments are missing and wound tampering maybe have occurred here to hide direct evidence of a second shooter.



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    #1582
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    lol

    Yet again, not even close to answering the question.


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    #1583
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    lol

    Yet again, not even close to answering the question.

    The conspiracy has been answered. You just prefer to believe the official version and any doctor, nurses and physicians who dispute the official version are lying or wrong in their opinion.

    Dr Shaw is a respected doctor he operated on Gov Connelly and he says the bullet in the archive could not have caused those wounds. His not a conspiracy nut, he says this based on what he saw on that day..

    Why are are all these people working at Bethesda and there for the autopsy claiming Kennedy body was in a body bag? You know damn well Nal the official story Kennedy was wrapped in white sheets when he left Parkland Hospital and was then placed in the casket.

    Body bag means Kennedy was taken out of the casket after it left Parkland

    I don't think Richard Lipsey understands why he just said in that video. The official version is Kennedy was still in white sheets when he was removed from the bronze casket at Bethesda . Richard Lipsey says no he arrived in a body bag inside a casket? Who was in the casket with Jackie?


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    #1584
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    There isn't one really. Take your pick between the mob, CIA, Russia, Cuba et al but theres no evidence for any of them. 57 years later and not a jot of anyone but Oswald.

    Witnesses saw men with guns in the stockyard. There are just no clear photographs of the men to identify them. Debunkers just ignore these witness sightings and people in the area smelling gunpowder on the street. Warren Commission also ignores dozens of people heard shots coming from the stockyard fence. Nobody ran to TSBD they ran up to the hill to the fence to catch the shooter. Debunkers ignore a man with a fake badge was up there before the shooting. The motorcycle cop he said it was a secret service badge and left the man go and to be never heard from again. The white house confirmed they had no secret service agents guarding the fence that day.


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    #1585
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Some of these details are known to most people when you have not studied the JFK conspiracy, but it shows someone was following Oswald and impersonating him months before the assassination.

    Good write up here.
    The CIA advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above, and have listened to a recording of his voice. These special agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald."
    The paragraph shown above comes from an FBI memo sent to both the White House and the Secret Service on November 23, 1963, the day after President Kennedy's assassination. It was a follow-up to a phone call at 10:01 AM, in which Director Hoover informed Lyndon Johnson of the same fact. Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged assassin of Kennedy held in police custody in Dallas, had been impersonated in phone calls to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City.
    An otherwise inexplicable impersonation episode takes on an entirely new meaning in this light. The calls from the Oswald impersonator made it appear that Oswald was a hired killer, hired by the Soviet Union no less.
    Perhaps the perfect plan was foiled by the fact that Oswald was captured, allowing the FBI to interrogate him and compare his voice to the tapes of these tapped phone calls, which were apparently flown up from the CIA's Mexico City Station on the evening of November 22. In any case, what should have been a hot lead to sophisticated conspirators was instead quickly buried—by November 25, FBI memos made no more mention of tapes, only transcripts. The CIA has maintained to this day that the tapes were routinely recycled prior to the assassination, and no tapes were ever sent. But the evidence that the tapes did exist and were listened to is now overwhelming, and includes several FBI memos, a call from Hoover to LBJ which appears to have been suspiciously erased, and even the word of two Warren Commission staffers who say they listened to the tapes during their visit to Mexico City in April 1964!
    https://www.history-matters.com/frameup.htm

    Personally i believe Oswald likely visited Mexico, but someone was trying to impersonating him before Dallas and for what reason i guess will never be known? People do speculate about it. Not hearing from the impersonator the person pretending to Oswald, you will never have the the full picture of events.


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    #1586
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Nobody ran to TSBD they ran up to the hill to the fence to catch the shooter.

    This is the sort of nonsense Im referring to.

    I just couldnt be bothered with you.


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    #1587
    patsman07
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭patsman07


    A policeman ran up the steps of the Depository building with his gun drawn.

    Cheerful Spring, when do you suppose the body was tampered with? Having left Parkland hospital the coffin was accompanied by Dave Powers, Mrs Kennedy, Kenny O'Donnell etc. As far as I remember, the only time Mrs Kennedy left the coffin was for Johnson's swearing in on the plane.


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    #1588
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    patsman07 wrote: »

    Cheerful Spring, when do you suppose the body was tampered with? Having left Parkland hospital the coffin was accompanied by Dave Powers, Mrs Kennedy, Kenny O'Donnell etc. As far as I remember, the only time Mrs Kennedy left the coffin was for Johnson's swearing in on the plane.

    Richard Lipsey's story he told the HSCA was- two vehicles were waiting at Andrews airforce base for Air Force one to arrive. One of the vehicles was a black hearse and another grey ambulance hearse was also waiting.

    Kennedy's body got taken to the rear of Bethesda Naval Hospital and was unloaded from the back of the black hearse and taken there to the morgue.The body arrived after 6.30pm. Jackie i believe arrived at the front of the hospital at 7pm with the bronze casket in the back of the grey ambulance.

    According to Lipsey the grey ambulance with Jackie in it, was a decoy to throw off the news media and the waiting crowds who had gathered out front.

    When did the switch from the bronze casket to the different casket occur I not sure? Lipsey doesn't say in his HSCA testimony.

    It likely happened sometime after the body got rolled out of Parkland, or inside the hospital- maybe the switch happened there? Or the drive between Parkland and Love field? Less likely onboard the plane but you can't rule out anything here!

    After Kennedy was pronounced death, the doctors left the room, and some people started preparing the body to be taken away and we know a scuffle happened inside the room and in hallways at Parkland. The secret service and others would not allow an medical autopsy to happen there in Dallas. If you're conspiracy minded you can assume the wanted the body out of there as soon as possible to carry out medical procedures for the cover up?

    The best evidence for wound tampering later is the Parkland doctors stories . According to the doctors in the room that day Kennedy rear side of the head was missing. There was a massive gaping wound in the back of the head behind the right ear.

    On the Zapruder film , there no gunshot wound that resembles anything the doctors described here in books and on film and video.


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    #1589
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    The Nal wrote: »
    This is the sort of nonsense Im referring to.

    I just couldnt be bothered with you.

    Yet you keep coming back for more. You're no better either.
    The Nal wrote: »
    There isn't one really. Take your pick between the mob, CIA, Russia, Cuba et al but theres no evidence for any of them. 57 years later and not a jot of anyone but Oswald.

    Plenty of evidence for it but like anything that proves conspiracy you choose to ignore it.


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    #1590
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    This is the sort of nonsense Im referring to.

    I just couldnt be bothered with you.

    The presumed last shot that hit Kennedy in the head many on the day felt that bullet came from a rifle position at the grassy knoll/stockyard. Everyone on the side streets and grass next to the car, seconds later, ran up the hill to catch the shooter there.

    Debunkers just assume there was no second shooter there to catch :) We know though there was a guy in a suit up there flashing a badge to people and flashed it again when he got stopped by a Dallas motorcycle cop. The man was an imposter and was likely a spotter/watcher to allow the second gunman to take off.

    What nonsense a bullet could even be found on a stretcher in that state and how it got there make zero sense too.. Connelly was taken to Trauma room 2 on a stretcher, his clothes got taken off with doctors and nurses in the room,. They changed the sheets, later to new whites and placed the fresh sheeted stretcher to the hallway and yet somehow in all this the bullet was not spotted here? Make no sense.


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    #1591
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Everyone on the side streets and grass next to the car, seconds later, ran up the hill to catch the shooter there.

    Again...... lies.

    Everyone really? Marilyn Sitzman ran to the fence did she?
    BloodBath wrote: »
    Yet you keep coming back for more. You're no better either.

    Please point out where Ive posted blatant lies. Will happily address them.


    BloodBath wrote: »
    Plenty of evidence for it but like anything that proves conspiracy you choose to ignore it.

    Again, please share evidence that proves a conspiracy. Id love if this was a conspiracy. Ive no skin in the game and believe in loads of conspiracies myself.


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